View Full Version : S&W M&P: Slide releases when mag is inserted.
From slide lock when a mag is inserted the slide automatically releases and chambers a round. This is a brand new M&P 9mm I bought for my wife last November. It only has 400 rounds total and its already happening. I've seen it happening to other pistols (tired range rentals) but this is the first that's in my family.
Is it due to an out of spec slide stop or spring?
dirksterg30
04-02-09, 11:25
I have had a CZ and a Glock do this, but not consistently. It would happen when I was slamming the magazine home too forcefully, which jarred the slide lock.
A couple of questions - How forcefully are you putting the magazine in the well? Does this happen all the time? Has it been doing this from the start?
Littlelebowski
04-02-09, 11:36
This has been discussed on here before. Not a big deal and most if not all M&Ps do this. Most Glocks do as well if you smack the mag home with authority.
I can't get my M&P to do it, but most of the Glocks Ive seen will release when hit hard.
In my opinion it's not a bad thing.
John_Wayne777
04-02-09, 11:50
From slide lock when a mag is inserted the slide automatically releases and chambers a round. This is a brand new M&P 9mm I bought for my wife last November. It only has 400 rounds total and its already happening. I've seen it happening to other pistols (tired range rentals) but this is the first that's in my family.
Is it due to an out of spec slide stop or spring?
Many semi-auto pistols will behave this way, especially if hit at the correct angle in the correct spot.
It's not a cause for concern.
Just don't come to rely on it happening 100% of the time.
It seems to be pretty inconsistent. Whether the mag is smacked in forcefully or not.
Its my wife's gun. She's just gotten into shooting (4th range trip) and is getting familiar with handling and shooting a handgun. I taught her to press check everytime and not rely on that dropped slide to have properly chambered the round.
I know its not a bid deal for most but personally, I don't like it. I prefer a gun to act only under my own volition. We'll see how it goes. If she doesn't like it we'll send it back to S&W to see if there' s permnant fix.
The "permanent fix" is to insert the magazine with out trying to slap the piss out of it and at a straight angle into the mag well.
If you insert the mag more forcefully then required and seat it at an angle towards the front of the gun (EG: your hand is striking toward the rear of the base pad and moving towards the front of the gun) this will occur. It also occurs with Glocks and HKs. Not a big deal. Seat the mag correctly and it will not happen.
I dont' believe there is such thing as incorrectly slapping a mag into the mag well. Esp. if you have to execute it under stress ie. competition, training class, or heaven forbid a life and death situation. Its either in there or its not. I encouraged my wife to handle her gun deliberately and with confidence. (she's not slamming it in with all her might) The slide dropped sometimes even when she or I tried easing it in as well.
the1911fan
04-02-09, 13:22
I noticed it happens more when you slap the mag in striking the rear of the mag/rear grip backstrap area. If you slap it in with your palm more on the front of the mag it happens less often (slide moving forward on its own)
So there is no permanent fix for this by just changing out a part or spring? Its just the way certain pistols are regardless of make or design?:confused:
John_Wayne777
04-02-09, 14:33
So there is no permanent fix for this by just changing out a part or spring? Its just the way certain pistols are regardless of make or design?:confused:
Most pistols will drop the slide from lock if you give them a sharp blow on the very back edge of the frame (behind where the magazine sits) at a 45 degree angle.
All of this is driven by spring pressure. Spring pressure pushes the magazine follower up to push up on the slide lock. When the slide cycles the tension from the follower pushes the lock into the slot in the slide of the weapon. When the slide begins to return to battery under the tension of the recoil spring it slams into the lock and stops. If your mag spring is weak and it's just barely getting the slide lock into place and if your recoil spring has lost a bit of it's zip, then the engagement between the slide and the slide lock might not be very solid...meaning it won't take much of a bump to release the slide. If, on the other hand, you're using a nice, stiff new magazine spring and a nice stiff new recoil spring the engagement between the slide and the lock is likely to be very positive.
If you've got a 20 pound spring on a 1911 bumping it isn't going to drop it from slide lock unless you are "bumping" it with a sledge hammer.
All of this varies from platform to platform and from person to person. I've put thousands of rounds through my M&P's (My 9 is well past broken in) and they don't do the auto-drop from lock on me. If I deliberately bump the bottom edge of the grip sharply at a 45 degree angle it will drop the slide from lock but other than that they stay put. When I insert my magazines I tend to push straight up so that when the magazine locks in the heel of my hand is perfectly perpendicular to the bottom of the magazine's floorplate. That's just how I learned to do it and even when reloading in a hurry I don't drop the slide from lock.
Because of physiology or training some other guys tend to push the magazine home using a more curved motion that has the heel of their hand traveling in an arc rather than a straight line up. Those guys may find that they drop the slide from lock automatically sometimes. I'm willing to bet that your issue is probably a result of the way you reload the handgun. Try slowing the whole process down and really watch how your hands work when you do the reload.
QuickStrike
04-02-09, 15:18
One of my M&P's do this (full sized .45). My other 4 plastic guns don't (2 M&P's & 2 glock 19's).
With the magazine going straight up with any significant amount of force, the slide will be released automatically. I don't like it because, IMO, it's not normal.
When this happens, I remember the first round in the mag would sometimes get stuck at an upward angle (nose against the upper inside of the back of the barrel) as well.
RogerinTPA
04-02-09, 15:55
All four of my M&P's do it when i do a speed reload. When I load them normally, they don't. It doesn't bother me at all, since my intent is to fire the weapon. If in doubt, press check or check the chamber loaded indicator (hole).
I prefer a gun to act only under my own volition.
Patient: "Doctor, doctor! It hurts when I do this!"
Doctor: "Stop doing that."
I dont' believe there is such thing as incorrectly slapping a mag into the mag well.
The problem is that your beliefs are in conflict. You believe the gun shouldn't auto-forward and you believe you should be able to insert the mag however you want. Doesn't work that way, especially (though not exclusively) with polymer-framed guns.
My M&P has done this once and I was probably slamming the magazine in (reload during a drill at class). My USPs do this when the mags are put in with authority (not necessarily slammed).
All of this varies from platform to platform and from person to person. I've put thousands of rounds through my M&P's (My 9 is well past broken in) and they don't do the auto-drop from lock on me. If I deliberately bump the bottom edge of the grip sharply at a 45 degree angle it will drop the slide from lock but other than that they stay put. When I insert my magazines I tend to push straight up so that when the magazine locks in the heel of my hand is perfectly perpendicular to the bottom of the magazine's floorplate. That's just how I learned to do it and even when reloading in a hurry I don't drop the slide from lock.
Because of physiology or training some other guys tend to push the magazine home using a more curved motion that has the heel of their hand traveling in an arc rather than a straight line up. Those guys may find that they drop the slide from lock automatically sometimes. I'm willing to bet that your issue is probably a result of the way you reload the handgun. Try slowing the whole process down and really watch how your hands work when you do the reload.
Interesting. We'll try that at home with dummy rounds. Thanks for your insights.
The problem is that your beliefs are in conflict. You believe the gun shouldn't auto-forward and you believe you should be able to insert the mag however you want. Doesn't work that way, especially (though not exclusively) with polymer-framed guns.
Tens of thousands of rounds through various Glocks, 1911's, HK's, SIGs, Beretta 92's etc and I never owned a auto pistol that did that until now. Not a big deal when its a range rental but its just a bit disconcerting now that its happening to "one of ours". In other words I'm just not used it is all.
Tens of thousands of rounds through various Glocks, 1911's, HK's, SIGs, Beretta 92's etc and I never owned a auto pistol that did that until now.
I've had it happen personally and seen it many times with students': Glocks, HKs, SIGs, and Berettas. Though, as I mentioned, primarily it affects polymer framed guns. At least one large LE training center actually teaches recruits that it's a viable option as an intended way to drop the slide ... something I'm still not comfortable with, personally.
Beat Trash
04-02-09, 19:37
So there is no permanent fix for this by just changing out a part or spring? Its just the way certain pistols are regardless of make or design?:confused:
Short answer, "NOPE".
I have had this happen at one time or another with just about every make auto pistol I have shot over the years.
If you don't assume it will happen, it's not that big of an issue.
The LAV yelled at me for doing speed reloads like this. I solved the problem by switching to my S&W 686 for the rest of the day.
From slide lock when a mag is inserted the slide automatically releases and chambers a round. This is a brand new M&P 9mm I bought for my wife last November. It only has 400 rounds total and its already happening. I've seen it happening to other pistols (tired range rentals) but this is the first that's in my family.
Is it due to an out of spec slide stop or spring?
Doesn't happen in my M&P .40 and never had it happen in any of my other autos.
firecop019
04-09-09, 03:59
I might be wrong, but I could've swore that the S&W rep who taught my armorer class said that the guns were designed to do that for law enforcement.
I might be wrong, but I could've swore that the S&W rep who taught my armorer class said that the guns were designed to do that for law enforcement.
Does your gun have a magazine disconnect?
John_Wayne777
04-09-09, 08:35
I might be wrong, but I could've swore that the S&W rep who taught my armorer class said that the guns were designed to do that for law enforcement.
I sincerely hope you are wrong. As has been pointed out a few times in this thread already, while it may happen, and perhaps even consistently for some individuals, it's not something one should train to rely on.
My full-sized M&P does this almost every time for me, but I tend to seat the magazine with authority. If I deliberately ease it in, the slide will not drop. I train to try to release or rack the slide every reload anyway and just stop if I feel the slide is already down. In the heat of a moment if I racked one live round onto the ground I wouldn't be too hung up about it. Solve the problem and move on.
I took a new shooter shooting this week. After nearly a full range session with .22 we put a few magazines through the M&P. He was a little nervous and light-handed with the gun and when he seated the magazines the slide did not drop.
It was not designed that way. Turning a bug into a feature is a time-honored part of the sales profession. Been there, done that. Ask me about the intermediate reset on a DAK sometime. :cool:
However, HK actually mentions this possibility in their manuals, I believe, and I know at least one huge law enforcement agency teaches its HK-wielding officers that it's an acceptable practice.
Personally, though, I agree with JW777. It usually works but once you add movement, stress, and a little Mr. Murphy into the mix you see people who fumble their reloads or, worse, induce stoppages.
wicked_police
04-12-09, 11:18
It was not designed that way. Turning a bug into a feature is a time-honored part of the sales profession. Been there, done that. Ask me about the intermediate reset on a DAK sometime. :cool:
However, HK actually mentions this possibility in their manuals, I believe, and I know at least one huge law enforcement agency teaches its HK-wielding officers that it's an acceptable practice.
Personally, though, I agree with JW777. It usually works but once you add movement, stress, and a little Mr. Murphy into the mix you see people who fumble their reloads or, worse, induce stoppages.
Salesmen are great! lol
When we're running our courses(can't say for the basic stuff taught to new recruits, I haven't been at that facility in a looong time), we tell our guys that it may happen, but not to trust it. If the slide goes forward when seating the mag, we teach the guys to always cycle the action to ENSURE there is a round chambered.
I used to like the 'feature'. Saved me time on reloads. :D But after the slide failing to pick up a round about half a dozen times during a high round-count course, I decided it was not the best way to reload. I now seat the mag with authority, but don't slam it in. Under stress, I most likely will react a little differently and seat it harder than I intend, but when I train and compete, I try to avoid it.
BTW, we use the S&W 5946. It happens with most of our candidates when they really seat the mags firmly.
firecop019
04-12-09, 17:58
Does your gun have a magazine disconnect?
Yes they do, for once the Chief took our recommendation, i just wish they wouldve came out w/ the manual safty guns a little sooner.
The Dumb Gun Collector
04-12-09, 20:41
I will join the pile.
I can do it with all of my poly guns (HKs, Glocks) and none of my metal guns. It has never happened to me unintentionally. I didn't believe the first guy that told me it was possible (actually, I think I thought his gun was busted). Then I slapped the crap out of the gun and it did it. Absolutely not a big deal in my experience.
As a humorous aside, a guy who is a member here (whose name I shall not mention) told me that he could do it with any gun. I handed him my P7M8.:D He eye-balled that machined/integral lanyard ring and said no thanks. I learned to shoot with my P7 and I suspect that is why I slap the mag straight up and never have the issue.
Greg, I'm pretty sure I could make it happen with your P7 if you want to give it a try sometime. I just need the gun, some ammo, a mag, and an anvil to pound the gun into. :cool:
my USP and g27 both do it if you hit it hard
"R.T.F.M.";)
Page 16 of my M&P manual states:
"WARNING: DO NOT USE EXCESSIVE UPWARD FORCE
WHEN INSERTING A LOADED MAGAZINE INTO THE
PISTOL. EXCESSIVE UPWARD FORCE COULD CAUSE
THE SLIDE TO MOVE FORWARD, CHAMBERING A ROUND AND
MAKING THE PISTOL READY TO FIRE."
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