The truth on the Walther P99

[Littlelebowski]

I've always heard from a good friend and on the internet that "former Glock engineers designed the Walther P99 to be the pistol they really wanted to produce" or something like that. Any truth to this?

[decodeddiesel]

I've always heard from a good friend and on the internet that "former Glock engineers designed the Walther P99 to be the pistol they really wanted to produce" or something like that. Any truth to this?

That is a damn good question. I do know the slides are Tennifer treated, which may or may not lend some credibility to this claim. I must say I have been completely enamored with my P99 and much prefer it to the G19 I used to have.

[John_Wayne777]

I don't know whether that is true or not. Having spent significant trigger time on a German made P99, I certainly thought it was what the Glock could have been in many ways. Better ergos, better trigger, FAR better factory sights....

[Littlelebowski]

I've been impressed with the ones I've fired. Never did figure out all of the triggers/models available.

[John_Wayne777]

I've been impressed with the ones I've fired. Never did figure out all of the triggers/models available.

Here's how I understood it:

There was a "standard" version that immitated the traditional DA/SA operation. Button on top of the slide to "decock" the striker for DA mode. A cycle of the slide "cocked" the striker for SA mode which simply released the striker. The end of the striker was exposed to provide a visible/tactile indication of which mode the trigger was in. In SA mode if you cycled the slide without your finger on the trigger (as you would when you weren't firing the weapon) the trigger would go to the fully forward position which made for an extended takeup before you actually got the trigger back into the single action position to pull the trigger. This was a safety feature.

There was a "Quick Action" version that basically just had the SA mode on the weapon.

To the best of my recollection there was also a DAO model that gave only a DA mode trigger.

[decodeddiesel]

Here's how I understood it:

There was a "standard" version that immitated the traditional DA/SA operation. Button on top of the slide to "decock" the striker for DA mode. A cycle of the slide "cocked" the striker for SA mode which simply released the striker. The end of the striker was exposed to provide a visible/tactile indication of which mode the trigger was in. In SA mode if you cycled the slide without your finger on the trigger (as you would when you weren't firing the weapon) the trigger would go to the fully forward position which made for an extended takeup before you actually got the trigger back into the single action position to pull the trigger. This was a safety feature.

There was a "Quick Action" version that basically just had the SA mode on the weapon.

To the best of my recollection there was also a DAO model that gave only a DA mode trigger.

That's pretty much correct except the "quick action" is a bit longer and a bit heavier than the "single action" mode. It is more akin (albeit worse though) to an M&P trigger, and in fact I would bet that this trigger was at least an influence on the design of the M&P.

[mattjmcd]

Here's how I understood it:

There was a "standard" version that immitated the traditional DA/SA operation. Button on top of the slide to "decock" the striker for DA mode. A cycle of the slide "cocked" the striker for SA mode which simply released the striker. The end of the striker was exposed to provide a visible/tactile indication of which mode the trigger was in. In SA mode if you cycled the slide without your finger on the trigger (as you would when you weren't firing the weapon) the trigger would go to the fully forward position which made for an extended takeup before you actually got the trigger back into the single action position to pull the trigger. This was a safety feature.

There was a "Quick Action" version that basically just had the SA mode on the weapon.

To the best of my recollection there was also a DAO model that gave only a DA mode trigger.

IIRC, wasn't the AS model the DA/SA and the QA was(is?) the model with the Glock-like DAO..? I had the AS and its single action always seemed much longer, but smoother and lighter, than the DAO-ish trigger on the P99 QA.

Have I got that right..?

[decodeddiesel]

Here's an interesting tidbit...

http://lundestudio.com/WaltherP99FAQ/IX/18.html


Who were the designers of the Walther P99?

From the February 1997 issue of Combat Handguns "New Walther P99—Best-Ever 9mm?" article by Frank James, a well respected gun author:

The briefing was given by Horst Wesp, the technical leader on the P99 project for Walther. Herr Wesp made the point, however, that the P99 is the result of a collective effort involving many designers and engineers. Wesp, himself, is an Austrian and formerly worked for Steyr and Glock before joining Walther to develop this new self-defense pistol.

Incidentally, the grip was designed by an Italian, Cesare Morini, renowned for his grips made for Olympic shooters.

According to the article, Roy Melcher, an Interarms engineer, also cooperated with Walther on the design.

Horst Wesp has since retired from Carl Walther. One of the principle designers of the P99 is still at Carl Walther as the head of design for service pistols.

[Ian111]

The Walther P99 is still the best DA/SA polymer pistol I've ever owned or tried. The slide is as easy to detail strip as a Glock though I never tried taking apart the lower. And the grip is still the most comfortable I've felt in a polymer pistol (if "comfort" is important to you in a pistol) . I haven't tried the other P99 triggers so I can't compare.

The P99 has so much going for it, even an endorsement deal with the James Bond franchise. But I guess it was too funky and not aggresively marketed enough. I think the P99 should have been at least as popular as M&P's, XD's, and HK's.

[ST911]

I have trouble with the rumor as stated. As noted by others in the past, though, engineers often don't have a clue about what should and shouldn't be done to guns, beyond the mechanical.

I've seen several Walther P99s in various classes, and many more SW99s. None went the distance, and most were abandoned by their users for other makes. The SW99 is yet another model Smith has trouble giving away.

[I'mGatMan!]

I sold mine first chance I got. The QA trigger sucked for me. I MUCH prefer even the trigger on my 442 to it.

[John_Wayne777]

I have trouble with the rumor as stated. As noted by others in the past, though, engineers often don't have a clue about what should and shouldn't be done to guns, beyond the mechanical.

I've seen several Walther P99s in various classes, and many more SW99s. None went the distance, and most were abandoned by their users for other makes. The SW99 is yet another model Smith has trouble giving away.

I think it fair to note that there was a considerable difference between the German made P99's and the SW99 guns. The SW99's are legendary for their issues. The P99's had a much better reputation...but also didn't get adopted by many (if ANY) PD's as issue weapons.

My particular specimen never had any trouble in training.

Sample of 1 and all that....

[Palmguy]

I sold mine first chance I got. The QA trigger sucked for me. I MUCH prefer even the trigger on my 442 to it.

The AS trigger is phenomenal, from all I've seen it is certainly the "preferred" trigger system on the P99.

[losbronces]

I've used a German made P99 (2003 model) with the AST (the anti-stress trigger). It was the only 9x19 available to me at the time. The weapon has a decocker, and when decocked it has very long travel on the first shot. The trigger is not bad after the first shot, but I found the first pull a bit much. I suppose if you don't decock it before holstering, then the trigger would be alright. It does give the "second strike" capability, that is you can pull the trigger to recock and fire without manipulating the slide (although I always clear the action if a round doesn't go off, so that had no value for me).

A friend of mine had his go down hard during a competition (so a sample of two with one failure). This was also a German made AST model, it might have been a 2002 though. Walther kept making some minor changes with the magazine release levers which are mounted on the trigger guard and they switched from the original 16 round magazine to a 15 round magazine to improve reliability.

I think if these pistols were "that good," there would be alot more of them sold. Albeit the partnership with S&W in the U.S. doesn't appear to have worked out well for either party.

[decodeddiesel]

A friend of mine had his go down hard during a competition (so a sample of two with one failure). This was also a German made AST model, it might have been a 2002 though. Walther kept making some minor changes with the magazine release levers which are mounted on the trigger guard and they switched from the original 16 round magazine to a 15 round magazine to improve reliability.

What was the failure?

[Obiwan]

I had a P99

It was a nice weapon, but at the end of the day it was still a DA/SA pistol

I also think it might be the best of the DA/SA crowd.....but that was not enough for me so I sold it

[sigmundsauer]

I owned a few P99s but have now since sold them.

What I liked...
...very accurate
...16-round mag capacity in a trim butt
...slick feeding (wonderfully radiused and polished extractor, and polished feed ramp)
...very short trigger reset
...HK-style mag release is lightning fast
...decocker button is unique but surprisingly easy to use.

What I didn't like...
...earlier versions had very short rifling leades that were incompatible with some ammunition (1st Generation Speer GDHP would not fully chamber, older generation Fiocchi JHPs, too)
...slide release lever easily interfered with thumbs-forward grip.
...heavy recoil spring makes for snappy, sharp recoil despite its relatively low bore axis.
...allegedly the extractors were not thoroughly hardened and were known to fail, particularly with the .40 cal.
...early .40 cal versions were equipped with poorly designed mag followers.

All in all, I like a standard G19 better. And my LEM HK P2000s led me to discard all of my P99s.

Tim

[losbronces]

What was the failure?

Something broke in the lower assembly and it had to go back to the Walther dealer (it was not a spring). It had less than 5,000 rounds through it and he was out of the competition.

The Walther dealer was the only one in the country and one of the few who actually understands how the restrictions on millitary calibers are applied. At that time, if you wanted to get a new pistol in 9x19, the P99 was the only choice.

We still had to deal with poor quality ammo (a 1% failure rate was normal for one brand from Argentina). Winchester White Box was considered premier stuff and hollow points or soft points were prohibited. The P99 that failed had used only WWB and Aguila FMJs. I also used those and some of the Argentinian stuff that had the high failure rates. You could count on one FTF every other box--nothing to do with the gun. I did know five security guards who also had the P99s, but they seldom shot them (and were terrible shots anyway).

[tweakmeister]

The Steyr M9 was designed by a former Glock engineer.

[TiroFijo]

I have shot the P99 many times, and never could find any attraction to it...

I really HATE the trigger, and MUCH prefer a Glock.

[Marcus L.]

The Steyr M9 was designed by a former Glock engineer.

I've owned the Walther P99 .40S&W and the Steyr M357. I sold both before after I had at least put 500-1000rds through them. I would say that the Steyr was a more robust design, it was accurate, but it had some issues. The loaded chamber indicator really beat up the brass, the grip angle was so extreme that it made it difficult to do a proper thumbs forward grip, and triangular sights were not very good when it came to proper alignment. I also had some extraction problems with it. The extractor is set at almost a 45 degree angle meaning that it has quite a bit of additional friction on it. When the pistol got dirty and hot from firing, that extractor barely moved and led to function problems.

The Walther was overall a pretty good psitol. The AS trigger feels very much like a H&K DA/SA, it was reliable, accurate, and the fit and finish were of great quality. It very much reminded me of a H&K quality pistol, only with a different design. The only thing that bugged me about the P99 was the rear sight dove tail. It was rather thin in comparison to most pistols. I've read of a few owners having their rear sight pop off because the rear dove tail cracked after high round counts..........I've also been worried that if I were to have dropped the pistol that dove tail would have easily chipped off. If Walther would fix that problem, I'd buy another P99 in a heartbeat.

[Littlelebowski]

The Steyr M9 was designed by a former Glock engineer.

Can you cite some backing data? No offense but claims like this are exactly why I started this topic in the first place.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

IIRC the Walther P99 was designed by Horst Wesp, who was involved in the original G17 project. The Steyr M9 was designed by Willy Bubbits, who was a former Glock employee and a customs inspector or something.

[neodecker]

I have a 2000 German made P99 in .40S&W that I've carried almost everyday for the last 9 years with close to 30,000 rounds through it. The only problem Ive ever had was finding good mags, And holsters.

I would also like to point out comparing a German made P99 to a S&W99 is like comparing a Colt to a DPMS.

[m4fun]

I have an early gen P99(with the non-1913 rail) and a later P99 with it(both 9mm) I really love the feel of this gun but also have been puzzled about not seeing more of a following, other than MI-6 :)

I have used for CCW, but when it has come to really pushing a lot of rounds downrange for classes, I have stuck to more proven grounds such as the Beretta 92s and Glock 19s.

I have small hands so the changable the backstrap on the P99 gives me the best fit, even over the 19.

[Abraxas]

I still have a P99, had it since 99. I have had great luck with mine. I have several thousand rounds through it and not a hick up. But as was said earlier" sample of one". Things I hate about it is finding holsters, mags( they are pricey when you do find them) and it is a non 1913 rail so my light wont work for it.

[padwan]

Never had one but three of my range buddies did get them. All were purchased in 2000, and all were of the DA/SA variant. Decocker button was slide mounted.

The guns were accurate and they did feel great in the hand. Recoil management was good, better than the G17 I was shooting at the time. I did feel that the gripframe was more biased towards one-handed shooting as I found it difficult to get a proper two-handed hold on the gun. My buddies had no such issues and they were happy with their pistols.

Magazines were pricey but they made the investment. Holsters were not easy to find so they had a local guy do custom leather.

The only issue all of them experienced was broken strikers. One used snap caps. The other two did not. The dealer took a while to get replacement strikers. Once these were installed, all of them decided to sell the pistols. I believe it was this parts supply issue that drove them back to Glocks.

[neodecker]

For parts and accessories I find that Earl's is the place to go http://www.carlwalther.com/

Also http://www.waltherforums.com/ has a lot of good info on the pistol as well as other Walther firearms.

[nsabjg]

Wife bought me a Walther P99 for a gift, I traded it even for a G17.

[Kilroy]

I've been impressed with the ones I've fired. Never did figure out all of the triggers/models available.

Many LE agencies have the same trouble with the Walthers and S&W clones.

I've seen several in classes where the users elected to carry it in fully cocked condition, contrary to agency policy. Another agency traded standard system pistols for heavy double action pistols. They would have bought Glock pistols, but could not afford to change the leather over.

Gun companies that I've worked closely with, love to see the Walther/S&W when walking into an agency as that is viewed as an easy sale of new guns.

S&W seldom seen in our area as our S&W rep is persona non grata in a few agencies, and virtually unknown in the rest.

[Kilroy]

The Steyr M9 was designed by a former Glock engineer.

Any facts (names) to go along with that claim?

[shooter521]

Any facts (names) to go along with that claim?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Bubits

[kevN]

I have a P99 9mm, a P99 40s&w, and a P99c 9mm which is my EDC. I have >5000 on both the 9mms and ~1000 through the 40 with no malfunctions. All are very accurate no malfunctions.

I EDC the p99c with the flat baseplate in a IWB raven concealment phantom and am very pleased with the comfort.