View Full Version : PLUMCRAZY FIREARMS have you seen this??????
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-05-09, 10:15
Just wondering if you guys had seen this yet. I dont know what to think it looks cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfGHnScQcH0
If it's 100% Mil-Spec shouldn't the mag drop free?
It passed the old "butter knife" tap test.
Mr.Goodtimes
04-05-09, 10:34
whats arms technology? must be really awesome stuff though, as, like stated above, not only did it pass the butter knife tap test, it survived the extra high 2 foot drop test.
also, i never saw anywhere in there where he said anything about the actual mystery material they use.
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-05-09, 10:43
you have to click on the (more info) on the right side and he explains what ARMS tec is and a bunch of other shit.
Also read the post under the video.
I never thought the butter knife test was funny until you guys pointed it out.
CaptainDooley
04-05-09, 10:51
If it's 100% Mil-Spec shouldn't the mag drop free?
That was my thought, but I'm the F'n New Guy, so what do I know?
Also, dude, get a hammer for that test, the fancy butter knife just looks like, "Oh crap, are we shooting that video now? In my kitchen? Crap... well, I'll just grab this butter knife, they'll get the idea."
So knowing next to nothing about ARs has no one tried a polymer receiver before now? I wouldn't guess it would go over too well (or work all that well), but I'm surprised no one has tried one before...
This was his response to the drop free
If you want them to drop free all you have to do it loosen the Magwell release and they will drop free, drop free to me means nothing, no one drops their mags on the floor because they dont want scratches on them, In combat yes, all I am doing is showing how tight they are, These lowers run flawlessly with out jams on every upper we have tested, and after you hit the magwell with a hammer, put a mag in and fire away, cant do that with alluminium! Also there is no comparison to Aluminium! Thanks!
usaffarmer
04-05-09, 11:03
He must run TOS.
Heavy Metal
04-05-09, 12:11
Bet it is a Ceramic.
And mags absolutely should drop free.
Cagemonkey
04-05-09, 14:36
Looks like one of those carbon fiber Bushmaster/Carbon 15 type lowers.
Thats pretty interesting. Wonder how they would hold up!
tweakmeister
04-05-09, 16:55
The Youtube description mentions molding?
If it's 100% Mil-Spec shouldn't the mag drop free?
Those were my thoughts
That looks like the same stuff they use to make HiPoint pistol frames.:rolleyes:
RogerinTPA
04-05-09, 17:10
Smells like bs to me. Mil-spec my azz. This guy should have done his homework.
They're getting to him, look at this one. I'm sure Magpul will support his efforts.
http://www.youtube.com/user/PLUMCRAZYFIREARMS
CRAZY is his company's middle name...
Based on the videos, it's obvious he has no clue.
SwatDawg15
04-05-09, 18:13
So thats what the ranger plate was invented for..:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
They have to be kinding, he is making something that he dont even understand.
They're getting to him, look at this one. I'm sure Magpul will support his efforts.
http://www.youtube.com/user/PLUMCRAZYFIREARMS
that guy is an idiot.
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-05-09, 18:44
So I am not seeing a lot of love for this guy. Is it beacuse the product SUX of he is an idiot?
It does seem a little unprofessional to use a butter knife to show off the integrity of your receiver. Like others have said it screams "That's the best you could do?". While the concept is interesting to use non-standard materials, perhaps ceramics, for a receiver, there is long road between "experimentation" and "ready for deployment" and us AR types will demand proven materials before we drop a crapload of cash for a receiver.
If it is ceramic, I wonder how well it would hold up under very cold temperatures. Up here in New England, it is a very legitimate concern.
So I am not seeing a lot of love for this guy. Is it beacuse the product SUX of he is an idiot?
Probably a little bit of both.
I just got an E-Mail from him regarding a comment I made, and then erased (since it was already asked, and answered)
Hey man, I read your comment, The gun will drop free when using Mil-Spec Lower parts group or a true Mil SpecMagazine! The Receiver is 100%, I have another lower built up with 100% mil spec parts, and it drops free, the one in the video is a stag parts kit and Mag pul accesories, The video is showing that its 100%, obviously I did not make my point in the video because People keep e-mailing me about this issue, I assure you its 100% and they drop free with proper parts, cannot put diesal fuel in a gas car and expect it to do what the manufacturer says, we are building 100% milspec lower parts groups out of 100% Billet steel, there is nothing out there like it! Just to let you know, a Manufacturer / our competition bought one to ridicule us, took it back and tested it and beat the living hell out of it, after their tests, they sent 2 plane tickets for us to fly out to meet with them, they want us to build them our receivers with their name on them, so That will tell you how impressed they were, I will not tell you their name until they are on the market from that company! You will know right away who they are when they hit the market! These are truley awesome, I am the owner and not just saying this because its my company, I am really impressed with my engineers work, we have been at it for 10 Years! The product will speak for itself! Thank you for your concerns, give us time for our website!
Heavy Metal
04-05-09, 20:24
The Plumcarzy guy seems like a decent enough guy, just a bit clueless on some things. I hope for his sake the reciever is everything he says it is and a bag of chips.
If he wants to impress me, he needs to samsonite gorilla the reciever.
Throw it into some concrete walls, drive over it with a truck and then build it into an operational rifle.
If it can take that, then sign me up dude!
Dr. Quickdraw Mcgraw
04-05-09, 21:22
The Plumcarzy guy seems like a decent enough guy, just a bit clueless on some things. I hope for his sake the reciever is everything he says it is and a bag of chips.
If he wants to impress me, he needs to samsonite gorilla the reciever.
Throw it into some concrete walls, drive over it with a truck and then build it into an operational rifle.
If it can take that, then sign me up dude!
This seems to be what really got the ball rolling for the Pmags. Show us how tough it really is, heck actually destroy one and show me what it takes to do that. Could you imagine what would have happened if the Magpul guys had put up a pmag video like this one?
Only time will tell whether or not this is a good product.
Whether the video sucks or not really doesnt matter. Its either put up or shut up when it comes down to it and again, only time will tell.
What DOES matter is the fact that new people are entering the game and producing much needed parts, ie lowers and LPK's. Hopefully they end up being decent products.
I just got an E-Mail from him regarding a comment I made, and then erased (since it was already asked, and answered)
I guess he just doesn't seem like the bright light that would bring out a new AR product. If he's been working at it for 10 years I would think he'd have a better grasp of the system he's wanting to affect. If his product is milspec and Pmags won't drop free does that mean a Colt isn't milspec because they do? If this guy is for real and the product is for real it's so shoe string or backward they have a product and no web site. His other videos don't appear to add respectability to his claims either. And if he's really negotiating with another manufacturer to build their lowers I wouldn't think he'd be yapping about it. Wonder what his FFL number is? I mean if it's not metal then how is the serial number installed "permanently" on the receiver? Folks have had problems over that little issue. Also I'd love to see the left side of the receiver. Did he ever show that and I just miss it?
Entertaining at least.
PLUMCRAZYFIREARMS
04-06-09, 01:39
Dude you guys are great! Seriously, I am Laughing and my Buddy is Laughing right now! Oh my God, I haven't Laughed so hard in awhile! And yes the Butter knife was really funny, I was just illustrating the sound and just introducing it, it was just a in fun! Anyways here is the Quick hammer hitting review!! LOL!!! You guys are Great Really, My face hurts from laughing! Seriously This is really good stuff! :D I Do Value your comments! Watch this Video, Our Website will have all the Info and video testing and all questions answered, please be patient! I love this Great Country!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbHdwdwB9bg&feature=channel_page
he said "mil spec" about 10,000 times without actually talking about the gun.
he gets an A+ for effort in marketing technique
Another new video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VimMhC89-Zk&feature=channel).
From the comments:
specialks1953
Is that your 5.45 X 39 set up?
PLUMCRAZYFIREARMS
Yes it is! I have the Omni Suppressor, Out of all the ammo I shot that day, not one malfunction or jam! The Spring that comes with the upper is too strong! If you use the Smith And Wesson spring you have to use a Suppressor, Otherwise a regular AR-hammer spring works on the wolf but not the surplus! What I noticed is the primers are real tough and needs the S&W heavy spring for the surplus!
:confused:
He stated in the You tube video that after firing 20-25 rpunds of Wolf Ammo that the lower Rec isn't HOT. When does the lower Rec ever get HOT after shooting? BS.
I am curious as to what the material is. The other video he did nail it pretty hard with a hammer and it seemed fine.
Got to lay off the milspec and "100%" rhetoric though, it makes the videos sound silly.
I see that they are in Lake Havasu. I wish I was back home as I would love to get my hands on one of them and check it out and then do some serious testing.
RogerinTPA
04-06-09, 09:23
I see that they are in Lake Havasu. I wish I was back home as I would love to get my hands on one of them and check it out and then do some serious testing.
The plumcrazy dude should send you a couple of lowers to T&E.;)
EzGoingKev
04-06-09, 10:12
I am curious as to what the material is.
I am curious to.
I recently read an article on Metal Matrix Composite (MMC) connecting rods and was curious as to how it work for the upper and lower receivers.
Failure2Stop
04-06-09, 10:20
Dude you guys are great! Seriously, I am Laughing and my Buddy is Laughing right now! Oh my God, I haven't Laughed so hard in awhile! And yes the Butter knife was really funny, I was just illustrating the sound and just introducing it, it was just a in fun! Anyways here is the Quick hammer hitting review!! LOL!!! You guys are Great Really, My face hurts from laughing! Seriously This is really good stuff! :D I Do Value your comments! Watch this Video, Our Website will have all the Info and video testing and all questions answered, please be patient! I love this Great Country!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbHdwdwB9bg&feature=channel_page
This is pretty good. I think I like this dude. I would like to see the magwell and receiver extension get hammered, but mostly just to see the strength of the material.
I haven't waded through the comments on youtube, but I would like to know the weight comparison between this lower and a standard AL lower.
I would like to know how much abuse the lower can take, not because it is actually relevant (as long as it isn't any worse than an aluminum lower and parts installation/interface is correct) but just to know. I was a bit sceptical of the SCAR plastic lower, but since it is not a force bearing part (or at least not much force) in the AR platform it really doesn't matter- a paper mache lower would probably work fine until you try to dive it.
Plum Crazy Guy- step back a bit on the use of the word "mil-spec", especially in conjunction with a lower receiver. While you may have the best of intentions, you are really about as far from "mil-spec" as possible- and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Word choice and semantics are hall-marks of the internet and technical communities, it just causes more trouble when conventions are not adhered to.
I am interested in this product, but would be much more interested if the name was a bit more sane. I don't expect a name change based on the critisism of a random internet voice, but a wisely selected name could make difference in a defensive shooting or other legal issue. I am also a bit suprised that ARMS (Atlantic Research Marketing Systems (http://www.armsmounts.com/)) hasn't gotten butthurt about the name sharing, but hey, that's between you guys.
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-06-09, 10:55
I am glad the plum crazy guy chimed in to defend himself.
He looks a litte mad but he did beat the **** out of it with that hammer which is just a little impressive. I wish they could post date one to make it pre ban for me.
mil spec must mean you can jack the price and everyone will buy it
Joe_Friday
04-06-09, 12:56
There are a lot of good questions here that could have been easily answered by PLUMCRAZYFIREARMS in his first and only post. Which was about nothing but the fact that he apparently has a wierd since of humor :confused: . I for one will find it hard to buy from a company whose marketing is done on YouTube and appears to be recorded in his mom's basement with no thought as to what he is going to say or do. Not impressed.
I was also wondering about the name sharing thing. Does he even know that there is already an ARMS company? :rolleyes:
Dr. Quickdraw Mcgraw
04-06-09, 13:38
Dude you guys are great! Seriously, I am Laughing and my Buddy is Laughing right now! Oh my God, I haven't Laughed so hard in awhile! And yes the Butter knife was really funny, I was just illustrating the sound and just introducing it, it was just a in fun! Anyways here is the Quick hammer hitting review!! LOL!!! You guys are Great Really, My face hurts from laughing! Seriously This is really good stuff! :D I Do Value your comments! Watch this Video, Our Website will have all the Info and video testing and all questions answered, please be patient! I love this Great Country!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbHdwdwB9bg&feature=channel_page
doesn't seem like you think its all that funny, here is an email I got from him, I never called him a liar or claimed that his product was crap, Just asked why if it was in fact mil spec then why did the mags not drop free.
Thanks for calling me a Liar, Its a MAGPUL Magazine in a 100% mil Spec gun! USE YOUR Head... Mag pul is the inventor of the little loop thing on the bottom of the magazine to pul mags out of a AR-15, Think about it! I am sick of Haters e-mailing me, Ill just pull the video and you guys can go have fun with your lives! If My receiver is such crap then why is big Manufacturers calling me to build them with their names on them???? Why are companies who have bought my receiver to test them call back and want me to build them for them???? The butter knife is just showing what it sounds like and the hitting of the receiver is just making a point! I told everyone there will be a video on my website sitting in a Hydraulic press under pressure, shooting it beating it, I was holding a camera and making this video, how the hell am I going to test it with a small cam in my hand! Why are there so many people always beating everyone down! What the hell is wrong with people! This video went up because I am impatient with my Web Guy, we havent even went to the market in full force yet. The video is an introductory for fun and with good intentions to introduce this to people, I am a very nice guy who cares about my fellow american brothers, then we have people like you, Dont buy our product if you dont like it, but dont make a comment dirogatory unless you have one and can make a valid point!
parishioner
04-06-09, 13:49
I just didn't know there was a need for a new market for lowers.
doesn't seem like you think its all that funny, here is an email I got from him, I never called him a liar or claimed that his product was crap, Just asked why if it was in fact mil spec then why did the mags not drop free.
Thanks for calling me a Liar, Its a MAGPUL Magazine in a 100% mil Spec gun! USE YOUR Head... Mag pul is the inventor of the little loop thing on the bottom of the magazine to pul mags out of a AR-15, Think about it! I am sick of Haters e-mailing me, Ill just pull the video and you guys can go have fun with your lives! If My receiver is such crap then why is big Manufacturers calling me to build them with their names on them???? Why are companies who have bought my receiver to test them call back and want me to build them for them???? The butter knife is just showing what it sounds like and the hitting of the receiver is just making a point! I told everyone there will be a video on my website sitting in a Hydraulic press under pressure, shooting it beating it, I was holding a camera and making this video, how the hell am I going to test it with a small cam in my hand! Why are there so many people always beating everyone down! What the hell is wrong with people! This video went up because I am impatient with my Web Guy, we havent even went to the market in full force yet. The video is an introductory for fun and with good intentions to introduce this to people, I am a very nice guy who cares about my fellow american brothers, then we have people like you, Dont buy our product if you dont like it, but dont make a comment dirogatory unless you have one and can make a valid point!
So the ranger plate is made to pull the mag out of the gun.... interesting.. LAST I CHECkED it was to help pull mags out of pouches from your chest rig or belt..... But what do i know, im just a consumer right? And your gun is milspec yet cant drop pmags free because Pmags AREN'T MilSpec ?? Dude, you need to do more research, I have a stripped lower that drops ANY MAG i throw in it free.... If you are caught fumbling with a mag, stuck in your reciever while reloading, (which i remind you, most people just push button and DROP THE MAG TO GROUND and have new loaded one already in hand waiting to be engaged) that could cost a life.... Your examples are rubbish and show nothing at all to the people who count on their rifles to protect and save their/others lives. I know if i had a reciever who couldnt drop mags free id send it straight back to the Manu. and DEMAND a different one
I was conversing back and forth with him on youtube last night, And he seems like an OK guy.
So I am not seeing a lot of love for this guy. Is it beacuse the product SUX of he is an idiot?
Definitely some of each.
Product suckage: Trigger guard that looks like it's part of the structure of the lower (is it?), the obvious problem of the mag well, milquetoast abuse tests (I kicked a $36k thermal optic off of a 4' rest onto a concrete floor because the manufacturer claimed it was ruggedized and didn't say I couldn't; resulted in a $36k paperweight that the Corps didn't buy), a clear misunderstanding of what mil-spec actually means.
Idiot indicators: Using the name of another, VERY publicly visible company to market the "technology," generally thinking that sounding like the ShamWow guy is a good marketing ploy, a clear misunderstanding of what mil-spec stands for. The ARMS thing alone...this guy probably Googles his own name 6 times a day, but can't be bothered to fact-check info that will certainly get his ass sued.
Suffice to say, it's a rocky start for this guy, if his goal isn't to appeal directly to the AirSoft crowd.
CaptainDooley
04-06-09, 15:35
I think I can clear up this whole situation... PlumbCrazy... I offer my services as a professional video producer/director, we'll shoot your videos professionally, on professional gear (lights, cameras, etc.) so that you don't have the issues with your videos and people coming down on you. After we pay for equipment rentals you can pay me in lowers (complete or stripped - we can work that out) and I'll pass them out to the hardcore m4c members for true T&E and some hard running, how's that sound?
ICANHITHIMMAN
04-06-09, 17:27
I started this post to see what you guys thought of his Idea I didnt think it would turn into this.
I guess I never saw past the wow cool thing but I still like the reciver. I cant wait to get my hands on one.
I guess from his post he dosent take critique well at all. I dont think it matters though the product will sell if its good regardless of weather or not he is a dick.
The sad part is he thinks he has something to prove to a bunch of screen names
If it were me I would just let the product speek but Im humble
First, I have not yet watched the second video.
You guys pissing about the butter knife or the drop test didn't pay very good attention and then went on to insult him and call him names.
He never claimed while doing either that he was testing for destruction.
He said "it sounds like metal" not "look, I can beat the crap out of it with a butter knife or drop it 2 feet and it survives."
HUGE difference.
He did mention that with a metal receiver it would be dinged, which I'm a little leary of, but...
Off to the side he mentions a hydraulic test.
Be interesting to see that.
The idea of color continuity through the material does sound good to me.
As for mags dropping free, I seem to recall a number of threads where PMag don't fall free from other "MilSpec" receivers either, so... your point?
His aren't the only ones with the problem; actually sounds more like a PMag issue to me.
You gonna call all the other shits because PMags won't fall free from them?
I doubt it.
Does seem to be a whole lot of "holier than thou" mentality around here; be nice if you actually paid attention before you run your mouths.
**Just watched the hammer test video.***
Damned impressive from where I sit.
Anyone that poo-poo'ed the butter knife for what it actually wasn't want to send their aluminum receivers to me to see how well they survive that test?
I'll happily send the remains back to you, postage paid.
Not connected to plumbcrazyfirearms in any way, in fact, had never heard of them before this thread.
Just think the ney sayers should have paid more attention to what his claims actually were before they pissed in his Wheaties and insulted him.
Wouldn't blame him for telling specific individuals within M4C to kiss his ass.
CaptainDooley
04-06-09, 18:18
I just wanna say that the root of the problem isn't necessarily the guy's actual product - it's poor video production, poor name selection, and poor marketing... That's what most people were talking about, especially in reference to his Mil-Spec references and the butter knife thing. I think everyone can admit the butter knife thing wasn't intended to be a strength/endurance test, and I think we can all admit it looks a little low-rent to use a butter knife for his actual intended purpose in a video you're using to promote your product...
Based on his deranged response to a straight-up technical question, I'd advise hiring some PR people to do his talking for him, in the future. It may help future business. The thing could cure cancer, and still not sell if he pisses off enough of the screen names that are his desired market segment.
Needs some good lawyers, too, for when he gets sued by ARMS, Inc.
snip...I think everyone can admit the butter knife thing wasn't intended to be a strength/endurance test, and I think we can all admit it looks a little low-rent to use a butter knife for his actual intended purpose in a video you're using to promote your product...
I have to disagree.
Some were very clearly criticizing him for using the butter knife for what they thought was supposed to be a strength test.
If they'd have paid attention to the video rather than pointing, laughing, and calling him and idiot, they'd have known that it was not.
Actually, for the stated purpose of the "butter knife test", it seems like a very good choice for instrument.
It "tinged" just right to demonstrate that striking the receiver with it sounded like a metal receiver.
As for the purpose of the video, it looked to me like a "check this out" video rather than a product release video.
mil spec must mean you can jack the price and everyone will buy it
First off, I am interested in it and given an affordable price I would buy one to try out. My problem with the use of mil spec is, that by simply being made of something other than a specific aluminum alloy it is not, nor can it be "100% mil spec". Now he could say that all of the dementions are mil spec, if indeed they are. Not being mil spec is not a bad thing if it is an improvement. Also his defense of his product by insulting Magpul's was a bit ridiculous. But I am interested in his product. I don't know if the trigger guard is a separate piece like a normal lower, but if it is not, and it is part of the mold I wish he would form it a little more like the Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard
exkc135driver
04-06-09, 18:59
First, don’t bullshit me. The moment I think you’re BSing me I will turn and walk out the door. I will not look back.
Know what you’re talking about. If you want me to buy your gun, be a gun guy. Know your product. Know its specifications. The mil-spec for an M16 receiver includes the type of aluminum alloy used … so if you are making lower receivers out of anything else, they will not be “mil-spec” even if all of the dimensions are spot-on.
Know the market. Promote your product. Be at the SHOT Show. Be at the NRA Annual Meeting (which this year is in Phoenix, just down the road from you. You are going to be there … aren’t you?)
Be business-like and professional. If your website, your promotional materials, or your replies to letters and emails look as if they were written by a retarded third-grader, you will impress few people.
Don’t do stupid things (or at least do not be seen to be doing stupid things). In that video showing you shooting your ‘Plum Crazy’ rifle with a suppressor, somebody’s red pickup was ahead (i.e., downrange) of the 180 … worse, some guy wearing a dark T-shirt was at the tailgate of the truck way ahead of the 180. We can argue all day about whether that was safe or stupid (I say “stupid”), but it is definitely unprofessional. Not to mention plumb crazy.
If you don’t know what ‘the 180’ is … then go sell something else. Baby food, cars, insurance, whatever. Get out of the gun business.
First off, I am interested in it and given an affordable price
I think he said $185.00
Joe_Friday
04-06-09, 19:53
You hit it perfectly. I am generally not the one that goes right out and picks up the newest cool guy gear/equipment unless it comes from a highly reputable company such as Magpul. If the receiver is as good as he says, and the feedback is good from the HSLD guys here then I will try it, but he has to change his approach to this market. From my experience gun guys are kind of like car guys and are very loyal with a low BS threshold.
First, don’t bullshit me. The moment I think you’re BSing me I will turn and walk out the door. I will not look back.
Know what you’re talking about. If you want me to buy your gun, be a gun guy. Know your product. Know its specifications. The mil-spec for an M16 receiver includes the type of aluminum alloy used … so if you are making lower receivers out of anything else, they will not be “mil-spec” even if all of the dimensions are spot-on.
Know the market. Promote your product. Be at the SHOT Show. Be at the NRA Annual Meeting (which this year is in Phoenix, just down the road from you. You are going to be there … aren’t you?)
Be business-like and professional. If your website, your promotional materials, or your replies to letters and emails look as if they were written by a retarded third-grader, you will impress few people.
Don’t do stupid things (or at least do not be seen to be doing stupid things). In that video showing you shooting your ‘Plum Crazy’ rifle with a suppressor, somebody’s red pickup was ahead (i.e., downrange) of the 180 … worse, some guy wearing a dark T-shirt was at the tailgate of the truck way ahead of the 180. We can argue all day about whether that was safe or stupid (I say “stupid”), but it is definitely unprofessional. Not to mention plumb crazy.
If you don’t know what ‘the 180’ is … then go sell something else. Baby food, cars, insurance, whatever. Get out of the gun business.
Did he used to be a porn director? He kept saying "beautiful" and "how did it feel"... "was it smooth?"... And I'm glad you were shooting with a guy in front of your muzzle.
Seems to me that this is a solution looking for a problem. When was the last time you heard someone complain about a lower?
Seems to me that this is a solution looking for a problem. When was the last time you heard someone complain about a lower?
my lowers are way too aluminum.
First, I have not yet watched the second video.
You guys pissing about the butter knife or the drop test didn't pay very good attention and then went on to insult him and call him names.
He never claimed while doing either that he was testing for destruction.
He said "it sounds like metal" not "look, I can beat the crap out of it with a butter knife or drop it 2 feet and it survives."
HUGE difference.
He did mention that with a metal receiver it would be dinged, which I'm a little leary of, but...
Off to the side he mentions a hydraulic test.
Be interesting to see that.
The idea of color continuity through the material does sound good to me.
As for mags dropping free, I seem to recall a number of threads where PMag don't fall free from other "MilSpec" receivers either, so... your point?
His aren't the only ones with the problem; actually sounds more like a PMag issue to me.
You gonna call all the other shits because PMags won't fall free from them?
I doubt it.
Does seem to be a whole lot of "holier than thou" mentality around here; be nice if you actually paid attention before you run your mouths.
**Just watched the hammer test video.***
Damned impressive from where I sit.
Anyone that poo-poo'ed the butter knife for what it actually wasn't want to send their aluminum receivers to me to see how well they survive that test?
I'll happily send the remains back to you, postage paid.
Not connected to plumbcrazyfirearms in any way, in fact, had never heard of them before this thread.
Just think the ney sayers should have paid more attention to what his claims actually were before they pissed in his Wheaties and insulted him.
Wouldn't blame him for telling specific individuals within M4C to kiss his ass.
Yep. And once again M4carbine goes the way of TOS. Sad how bad this site has gone down hill.
Too bad,
Darkop
Seth Harness
04-07-09, 00:01
I dont know that I need one, but I thought it was pretty cool...
Where ever you are "Plumb Crazy Firearms" guy, I hope things work out for you.
I say, no sweat... New product deveopement and its proprietors are vulnerable to and subject to much scrutiny. Keep learning and searching for information, cuz lets face it, no one knows it all. By all means keep going, stand tall and wear it with pride.
My $.02,
https://www.vbd.com/noc/shop/products_detail.asp?CategoryID=60&ProductID=128
related?
PLUMCRAZYFIREARMS
04-07-09, 00:13
Hey Guys, Here's What is going on, We are trying to get the Website up with all the Information, I have 2 Partners that are both Engineers, They are very Intelligent men and Have been in the Business for awhile now and been working overtime trying to get this launched! I of course jumped the gun being impatient and got excited and wanted to put it out there on my Videos just for people to view, with very little info till the site was launched, as you guys can see I own quite a few Machine guns All are Transferables and My Friends and I go shooting all the time, All my friends and family Back east wanted me to show them some videos of the new Receiver, so I basically said what the hell and threw them up, When Our Website comes up all the questions will be answered, One of my Partners/Engineer will be either posting information and specs on this thread soon or it will be up on the site, Please be Patient, I am glad you guys are a bunch of good guys here, I am the type of guy you can call me personally and talk anytime no matter how busy I get, I am very Humble and never think of being better than anyone, I feel we are all equal. And if any of you guys are in my area, Feel free to look me up, My guns are your guns, That is what I bought them for. I believe you guys will be impressed if one of these receivers were in your hands! Oh and if any of you have a truck, Well take the MG-08 out with the 25 foot belt full of 8mm,
here's a video of me screwing around today and thought you guys needed a laugh as I did! The weapon is an Original Uncut/Original "Property Of The US Government" on a form 3 and it states under MFG/Importer "Harrington and Richardson" I have the 5.45 upper on it, The Original Upper I am not shooting it, I have an Original Moderator with Serial Number 0001 as well, This is a Real Vietnam Erra Gun, I also have X-rays of the Lower Receiver.
Watch in HD, Heres a few of them, The 93R I acquired is from the Actual Beretta Collection, I have the Actual Book with an Auto Graph of the Owner of the collection, Been in movies, Its a real 93R from Italy, have box and folder as well, and is a Keeper, very Rare, Thanks guys, watch all my Videos.:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPnRdn97w_A&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrY6WJN7w2I&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpT9MJJ8cag&feature=channel_page
Just so I understand correctly you are saying the mag didn't drop free because you used a Stag LPK which is not "mil-spec"?
parishioner
04-07-09, 00:46
Although I dont think I would have a need for one of these, I still think it could be a nice alternative. I can see that he devoted a lot of his time and effort into this project so I hope he succeeds in his endeavor.
I am worried about the name A.R.M.S. though.
CryingWolf
04-07-09, 01:07
I would like to see these lowers priced for a lot less then all the other lowers out there.
I personally would love to see this lower in the sub $120 or even in the sub $100. Sure would give alot of incentive for people to try your reciver.
considering its (in the eyes of battle-tested-weapons users) untested, i will not be placing an order for $180 for something that i have to have shipped to an FFL and BC and so forth just to T&E it.
i'd pay $80 for one to T&E.. i'd even gets it on da video an' do it all professional like {spitping}.
As for mags dropping free, I seem to recall a number of threads where PMag don't fall free from other "MilSpec" receivers either, so... your point?
I had 12 or so that wouldn't drop free from my LMT lower.
Obviously, the guy's skills in communicating his product's features need some work, but let's see the actual product and evaluate it on it's own merits. I'm looking for good lowers, not a MarCom professor.
Is this a solution in search of a problem? Perhaps. But options are always nice to have, and IF the product performs well in REAL use than "cool" is sometimes fun, too.
I'm still new here, but I have a comment on the hammering video.
Okay, I see that you are taking a hammer to it, but you are hitting it where the strong point is, How about you take a hammer to the magwell and or the actual portion where the buffer tube will screws into.
Lay it flat and go at it. I want to see that it won't distort the openings.
Seth Harness
04-07-09, 16:49
I'm still new here, but I have a comment on the hammering video.
Okay, I see that you are taking a hammer to it, but you are hitting it where the strong point is, How about you take a hammer to the magwell and or the actual portion where the buffer tube will screws into.
Lay it flat and go at it. I want to see that it won't distort the openings.
I guess I fail to see the validity of that test... If your looking to just kill it, then run it over with a heavy highway roller/rumbler. If you want a realistic test... I think hes done quite well.
Im not trying to be a smartass, I just dont think he and his product are really getting treated fairly. Just MHO :)
I'm curious about any differences in weight. Not that aluminum is really heavy but when people (we all know who they are) start adding all of their gadgets to it, every little bit helps.
As for the hammer video, watch carefully and you will see that he did hit the buffer tube ring a couple of times. It's pretty impressive, but I'd still like to T&E one myself or see third-party testing.
$185 is a little high but then again with today's firearm-frenzy, it's not too far off the mark. If it holds up better than an aluminum lower, the little extra cost is worth it. You can't drive a new BMW for a used Geo price!
One last thing, who here actually subjects their firearms to such brutal treatment? Aside from those currently deployed to the sandboxes, that is. I, for one, don't. My AR has a few marks where my sling rubs against it and it will have more signs of use as time goes on. I've spent good money on my toys and I'd like to keep them "healthy" for as long as possible. No safe queens and no redheaded stepchildren. I even treat my Glock well even though I don't have to.
I'm still new here, but I have a comment on the hammering video.
Okay, I see that you are taking a hammer to it, but you are hitting it where the strong point is, How about you take a hammer to the magwell and or the actual portion where the buffer tube will screws into.
Lay it flat and go at it. I want to see that it won't distort the openings.
as seth said, that's not really necessary.. if you hit any receiver on the magwell with a hammer it's gonna break, aluminum or not.
beating it with a hammer the way he did just demonstrates that it's not a complete piece of shit, i don't think he was trying to do anything scientific.
a good video would show measured foot pounds of pressure to break a quality aluminum receiver compared to pressure required to break his. if he's got the cash to develope, produce, and market the product, he should have $160 to invest in destroying a known good receiver.
I'm curious about any differences in weight. Not that aluminum is really heavy but when people (we all know who they are) start adding all of their gadgets to it, every little bit helps.
As for the hammer video, watch carefully and you will see that he did hit the buffer tube ring a couple of times. It's pretty impressive, but I'd still like to T&E one myself or see third-party testing.
$185 is a little high but then again with today's firearm-frenzy, it's not too far off the mark. If it holds up better than an aluminum lower, the little extra cost is worth it. You can't drive a new BMW for a used Geo price!
One last thing, who here actually subjects their firearms to such brutal treatment? Aside from those currently deployed to the sandboxes, that is. I, for one, don't. My AR has a few marks where my sling rubs against it and it will have more signs of use as time goes on. I've spent good money on my toys and I'd like to keep them "healthy" for as long as possible. No safe queens and no redheaded stepchildren. I even treat my Glock well even though I don't have to.
train harder than you expect to fight. if you're drilling for reals, your guns get beat up. i broke a nearly brand new pistol grip off one of my guns last year- shit happens when you incorporate sweat and elevated heartrates into your training.
First off, I am interested in it and given an affordable price I would buy one to try out. My problem with the use of mil spec is, that by simply being made of something other than a specific aluminum alloy it is not, nor can it be "100% mil spec". Now he could say that all of the dementions are mil spec, if indeed they are. Not being mil spec is not a bad thing if it is an improvement. Also his defense of his product by insulting Magpul's was a bit ridiculous. But I am interested in his product. I don't know if the trigger guard is a separate piece like a normal lower, but if it is not, and it is part of the mold I wish he would form it a little more like the Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard
I agree what he probably means to say is that the receiver is dimensionally Milspec - obviously it's not using Milspec materials and that's the point. Then again - not all the dimensions are important. I am assuming many billet receivers are certainly not dimensioanlly milspec in many areas.
What we need to see are facts about the receiver and the material used. Why is this material better? What does it do for me and my rifle? Is it more dimensionally stable? Lighter? Stronger? Is the receiver dimensionally correct where it counts - is my LPK going to fit properly? Can it be mass produced easily so that there will be plenty available? etc, etc.
One thing I have noticed in my time here is that many folks on M4C are not easily impressed by shiney objects, but most are not opposed to new products that genuinely provide a benefit.
We'll have to wait a bit to see what benefits this product provides.
I will say that an integrated trigger guard is a deal breaker for me. Don't take away flexibility.
The way I see it - this product could be something promising. That said there are things to consider: if it is not metal then what is it and how does it take temperature changes and will they affect current properties? How will it react to common chemicals and if they will affect the properties of this material? How does it withstand a repeated wear from moving parts(mags, pins, etc)? I feel that this material itself holds a lot of potential if proven to do well with all the questions that have been asked above may prove to be very popular in a future. So I guess the guy needs to give a few of his receivers for T&E to some of our members and we'll see how that goes. Personally I feel that a lot more parts for AR could be built from this material if it proves to be lighter, stronger, more wear resistant and cheaper then aluminum.
Fellas, I'm not bashing the guys product, is it promising? Yes, I would be interested..
Yes, hitting the magwell or the buffer tube would fail. that's obvious, since you are pretty much hitting it when it has no material that can spread the blow. (I knew this going in when I asked the question, common sense), but I asked to see the response I would get from them.
Seth , you aren't being a smart ass, like I said above, I knew the answer just wanted to get a response from the Company.
Asking to see some indication of the receiver extension bridge is not an unreasonable request, as other "pioneers" in the field of 'High tech plastic" receivers have had failures in this particular location.
I would also be interested in the weight comparison to a stripped aluminum lower.
It would be nice to have a durable reliable light weight receiver that was also competative on price point, otherwise I fail to see the advantage to the consumer to make the receiver a marketing success.
I wish the company success, because I am happy to see any expansion in the firearms market place. But I mostly hope this yields some inovative and useful firearms products that will be of a true lasting quality for the end consumer.
If nothing else it provides more "off list" receivers for the folks in Komifornia.
The guy who owns Plum Crazy Firearms and is making the ceramic lowers also owns:
http://www.healthcleanz.com/
That Lake Havasu company makes a colon cleanser you connect to your shower head.
Can I get a free colon cleanser with the purchase of a lower?
Wow, how did you find this one
Someone emailed it to me.
SWATcop556
04-09-09, 15:24
Maybe that is where he collects all of the "super secret material" to make his lowers. :D
At the very least he needs to hire some PR and advertising personnel who actually know something about firearms to market his lowers.
I guess I just fail to see how lowers need to be able to stand up to a hammer beat-down (although it was impressive). Its just not worth almost $200 to me and I use and abuse my rifles.
I might be able to see a possible military app. but it would be a stretch.
The guy who owns Plum Crazy Firearms and is making the ceramic lowers also owns:
http://www.healthcleanz.com/
That Lake Havasu company makes a colon cleanser you connect to your shower head.
Can I get a free colon cleanser with the purchase of a lower?
Hey, hey, hey...
I came up with the idea of of the MkII, AES (Accelerated Emena System) using CO2 cartridges to get to those nasty cases in hard to reach places.
I do hope we aren't going to be competing for market share in the obstructed bowel industry. :p
Heavy Metal
04-09-09, 17:03
I guess I fail to see the validity of that test... If your looking to just kill it, then run it over with a heavy highway roller/rumbler. If you want a realistic test... I think hes done quite well.
Im not trying to be a smartass, I just dont think he and his product are really getting treated fairly. Just MHO :)
I agree. The product should be allowed to stand or fall based on its own merits. People need to reserve jusdement till al the facts are in. He may have hit upon a genuine improvement. Lets not be in a rush to brand him an apostate.
I bought a Plum Crazy C-15 from a local dealer. Put it together everything is tight. I took it to the range and it shot fine. Its lighter, and did'nt heat up. I shot it with my Gemtec G-5 .So far so good. I would say try it before you knock it
I bought a Plum Crazy C-15 from a local dealer. Put it together everything is tight. I took it to the range and it shot fine. its lighter, and did'nt heat up. I shot it with my Gemtec G-5 .So far so good. I would say try it before you knock it
(sniff, sniff)
you got pix?
(sniff, sniff)
you got pix?
Here is 2 pictures. This is a build in progress so please dont laugh . It is a stag upper. I'm a lefty
Here is 2 pictures. This is a build in progress so please dont laugh . It is a stag upper. I'm a lefty
what's it appear to me made of?
Amazing how you joined just to post this......
What LPK did you use? I want to make sure your mags will drop free or that they don't so you don't scratch them.
what's it appear to me made of?
Its some kind of carbon composite. maybe ceramic in it. Not polymer . Better looking then a bushmaster carbon 15. I've tried to bend it at the top and side to side, theres almost no in flex in it. The on thing I will say after locking in the front pin you have to give the upper a lite tap down before locking the rear pin.
Amazing how you joined just to post this......
What LPK did you use? I want to make sure your mags will drop free or that they don't so you don't scratch them.
I found this posting when I GOOGLED Plum Crazy Firearms. I saw alot of crap talking on something that no one owned. I thouht maybe you all might want to here somthing from someone who owned one. I also saw those goofy videos, to bad I dont think they it justice. Anyway its a Stag parts kit because Im a lefty and like the ambi select.
Seth Harness
04-12-09, 01:24
Its some kind of carbon composite. maybe ceramic in it. Not polymer . Better looking then a bushmaster carbon 15. I've tried to bend it at the top and side to side, theres almost no in flex in it. The on thing I will say after locking in the front pin you have to give the upper a lite tap down before locking the rear pin.
Seems to me that if there were ceramic in it, it would have a tendency to crack, break or shatter when dropped or hit with a hammer. Ceramic is very hard, but not very ductile... From what I understand anyways. Im not a ceramic specialist or anything though.
Seems to me that if there were ceramic in it, it would have a tendency to crack, break or shatter when dropped or hit with a hammer. Ceramic is very hard, but not very ductile... From what I understand anyways. Im not a ceramic specialist or anything though.
There was a video of plum crazy guy hitting one with a hammer. Its been pulled, I dont know why. I'm thinking anything thats gonna damage this reciever is also going to damage an aluminum one. Its seems very strong and slighty flexible.
Here is 2 pictures. This is a build in progress so please dont laugh . It is a stag upper. I'm a lefty
Looks good to me so far. I don't see anything to laugh at. Though, I might laugh if you put the vertical grip sticking out to the side of the gun, 90 degrees from the pistol grip. That would need some explaining. :D
I just wanna say that the root of the problem isn't necessarily the guy's actual product - it's poor video production, poor name selection, and poor marketing... That's what most people were talking about, especially in reference to his Mil-Spec references and the butter knife thing. I think everyone can admit the butter knife thing wasn't intended to be a strength/endurance test, and I think we can all admit it looks a little low-rent to use a butter knife for his actual intended purpose in a video you're using to promote your product...
Bingo... and they guy comes across as someone who doesn't really know his stuff.
Get someone else to talk up the product, and it would do better.
I did see the other video where he beat it with a hammer, but when he proceeded to beat the counter with the hammer (on several occasion) to try and make a point I just wanted to stop watching/listening and and smack him on the head and say, "enough already!". YES IT"S A HAMMER.... I GET I! It not a Sham WOW commercial.
Now, I do think the product is interesting and would possible consider one in the future. Just wish the trigger guard was a little ore rounded. I'm looking to get another lower, it it wasn't $180ish I'd consider trying one.
hmm... im the exact opposite. i dont give a flying crap about his approach or what he names it.
all i care about is: what the crap is it made out of?
I found this posting when I GOOGLED Plum Crazy Firearms. I saw alot of crap talking on something that no one owned. I thouht maybe you all might want to here somthing from someone who owned one. I also saw those goofy videos, to bad I dont think they it justice. Anyway its a Stag parts kit because Im a lefty and like the ambi select.
Ok. It just seemed a little odd to me that you registered and said you had one after this thread was started. I didn't even think these were out yet??? You said you got one from your local dealer? How much did it cost? Since Plum Crazy says Stag LPKs aren't "mil-spec" does your mag not drop free?
Ok. It just seemed a little odd to me that you registered and said you had one after this thread was started. I didn't even think these were out yet??? You said you got one from your local dealer? How much did it cost? Since Plum Crazy says Stag LPKs aren't "mil-spec" does your mag not drop free?
I bought my receiver from Bears Arms in Scottsdale, AZ 2 weeks ago Wednesday, . I was thinking of a cav arms, but there so ugly and i really didn't want to sand. I was talking on the manager and he showed me the Plum Crazy C-15. He said he had already bought his and was planning a build of his own. It was $189.00. Stag kit fit fine. GI mags drop free. Magpul Pmag don't drop free.
pmags dont drop free from about half my receivers (until i fix 'em)- i dont even know why this is ever brought up.
worth watching
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myvmoXBw5i4
worth watching
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myvmoXBw5i4
Like that retard's opinion is worth a crap. The Plumcrazy AR reciever may be decent, but this asshole who claims to be a magpul gunsmth is doing absolutely zero to help their cause.
Looks good to me so far. I don't see anything to laugh at.
I got a good laugh out of the videos, and that he named his company "Plumcrazy Firearms".
I'll wait for the videos of owners who broke their lowers trying to prove to their buddies they could hit it with a hammer.:eek:
AnchorArmament
04-13-09, 10:07
I get contacted by new manufacturers of AR15 lowers every month. Some of them look like they have potential. Others do not.
If this guy would have contacted me and sent his video. I would have told him we are not interested with out hesitation. He put together a poor presentation.
If the product is the next best thing, then he needs to do a better job of proving it.
I think this falls under the "I'm no expert but I play one on YouTube" category. Tool...
Like that retard's opinion is worth a crap. The Plumcrazy AR reciever may be decent, but this asshole who claims to be a magpul gunsmth is doing absolutely zero to help their cause.
Videos not there anymore :(
Videos not there anymore :(
VIDEO STILL WORKS
VIDEO STILL WORKS
Why am I not surprised that your IP address is an EXACT match for user "PLUMCRAZYFIREARMS"?? If you register another user to troll these forums, I might advise staff to lock out your whole IP range. -SHIVAN
Based on the Leitner-Wise type antics, this thread is now locked. It smells of a sham to me.
Deal with known makers of arms. Caveat Emptor and all that...
Gentlemen
What follows is not an arm chair opinion but the simple truth. My sons and I have put several thousand rounds through the Plum lowers and they still appear and function flawlessly. To be honest I thought the take down pins would wear but after years of abuse (my sons could break a steel ball with a rubber mallet) the pins show zero wear. I also had My doubts about the poly hammer but to date the hammer has never failed and also shows zero wear (I have over 9000 rounds on that one) The poly is self lubricating, can't rust and very light. The all poly trigger is super smooth and very crisp, as good or better than the pricey trigger group I put on My Bushy last year. Honestly I don't care if the Guy who came up with these is a rocket scientist or the village idiot, these things are tough,smooth and affordable (I get mine from Colemantyler.com for $149 and change delivered). I don't sell them and have no interests in the company I just wanted My fellow shooters to know the truth, buy one or don't no diff to Me. If I break one or it fails in any way I will post it here, I assure You. Also about the mag drop issue, some mags drop free, some don't. I have aluminum lowers that are the same way. Don't be quick to dismiss them because someone who has never owned one passes his opinion as fact. I have 2 CMMG, Bushmaster, Oly arms uppers all on Plum lowers and in My eyes they have proven worthy. Try one for your next build, it'll save you money ( more cash for ammo or another build) provide You with a bullet-proof lower and if You don't like it You haven't lost much. If You're like Me You spend that much on crap at Wally World every week.
Again not wanting to start a pissing match just wanted to share My experience with these lowers.
ghostman1960
10-12-10, 09:17
Where is the popcorn smiley here?
Where is the popcorn smiley here?
New here Brother so don't understand the question.
ghostman1960
10-12-10, 09:27
New here Brother so don't understand the question.
This thread will be filled with drama. I predict a lock.
Why in the world would there be drama? I simply posted an honest, real world account of a questionable product. If I was curious and wanted the truth concerning a prod I would want some one who has used it to give Me his account. Not looking for a fight just trying to be helpful. If You disagree or don't want My experience with these lowers that's fine with Me.
Gentlemen
What follows is not an arm chair opinion but the simple truth. My sons and I have put several thousand rounds through the Plum lowers and they still appear and function flawlessly. To be honest I thought the take down pins would wear but after years of abuse (my sons could break a steel ball with a rubber mallet) the pins show zero wear. I also had My doubts about the poly hammer but to date the hammer has never failed and also shows zero wear (I have over 9000 rounds on that one) The poly is self lubricating, can't rust and very light. The all poly trigger is super smooth and very crisp, as good or better than the pricey trigger group I put on My Bushy last year. Honestly I don't care if the Guy who came up with these is a rocket scientist or the village idiot, these things are tough,smooth and affordable (I get mine from Colemantyler.com for $149 and change delivered). I don't sell them and have no interests in the company I just wanted My fellow shooters to know the truth, buy one or don't no diff to Me. If I break one or it fails in any way I will post it here, I assure You. Also about the mag drop issue, some mags drop free, some don't. I have aluminum lowers that are the same way. Don't be quick to dismiss them because someone who has never owned one passes his opinion as fact. I have 2 CMMG, Bushmaster, Oly arms uppers all on Plum lowers and in My eyes they have proven worthy. Try one for your next build, it'll save you money ( more cash for ammo or another build) provide You with a bullet-proof lower and if You don't like it You haven't lost much. If You're like Me You spend that much on crap at Wally World every week.
Again not wanting to start a pissing match just wanted to share My experience with these lowers.
Do you honestly expect anyone to go out and buy/try a lower that you recommend? Post your qualifications and establish yourself here first.
With your choice in uppers I have a hard time trusting any equipment recommendation you give.
Captain_America
10-12-10, 09:38
Where is the popcorn smiley here?
I'm trackin, this will be interesting.:sarcastic:
ghostman1960
10-12-10, 09:40
Why in the world would there be drama? I simply posted an honest, real world account of a questionable product. If I was curious and wanted the truth concerning a prod I would want some one who has used it to give Me his account. Not looking for a fight just trying to be helpful. If You disagree or don't want My experience with these lowers that's fine with Me.
Well this board consists of people with very high standards when it comes to ARs. I myself found your post to be interesting and informative. The majority here though will dismiss your findings out of hand because none of the equipment you used is considered "tier one". (See the chart). They are usually pretty vocal about it. That is why I made the prediction I did. No offense to you.
ForTehNguyen
10-12-10, 09:45
Do you honestly expect anyone to go out and buy/try a lower that you recommend? Post your qualifications and establish yourself here first.
With your choice in uppers I have a hard time trusting any equipment recommendation you give.
if you dont like a recommendation, no ones forcing you to buy it. This type of tone is reserved for other forums.
Captain_America
10-12-10, 09:50
Well this board consists of people with very high standards when it comes to ARs. I myself found your post to be interesting and informative. The majority here though will dismiss your findings out of hand because none of the equipment you used is considered "tier one". (See the chart). They are usually pretty vocal about it. That is why I made the prediction I did. No offense to you.
Also, to be honest, most people are gonna feel you have a vested interest in Plum Crazy. You join the forum and your first post is singing their praises. You claim to have no affiliation, but that doesn't mean anything on the net. This may or may not be the case, but it seems that way to me.
I do my own builds and most of My rifles are actually made up of parts from several companies. I assure You that just because You spent more on Your toys doesn't mean Yours is any better than mine (or worse). I have THOUSANDS of rounds through each of My rifles and I promise You My rifles are just as deadly as Yours. Having built My own I also have complete confidence in them. Don't want My opinion? That's fine no harm no foul, not trying to win friends just trying to share experience. Also I'm not bad mouthing alum I just prefer the poly for wear, price and over all quality, also the triggers on these units are very nice. If You are in the New Orleans area and want to try one let Me know, shoot one of mine and decide for Yourself. Not interested? Great, don't trust My opinion fine, again no big deal
Well this board consists of people with very high standards when it comes to ARs. I myself found your post to be interesting and informative. The majority here though will dismiss your findings out of hand because none of the equipment you used is considered "tier one". (See the chart). They are usually pretty vocal about it. That is why I made the prediction I did. No offense to you.
That simply isn't true, especially when it comes to lowers.
You can go through countless threads where IPs, mods, and active-duty members have suggested or OK'd 2nd tier lowers. Bushmaster, RRA, even DPMS, a mil-spec lower is a mil-spec lower and it's hard to screw one up, especially since most of them are made by a handful of manufacturers in the first place. No one is going to rag on you for having one in and of itself.
What you will see criticism of is the logic as to why you should get one. There really isn't a "1st tier" group of manufacturers on this site, there's good-to-go and there's everything else.
A mil-spec lower is a mil-spec lower, but the companies that produce sub-par uppers are the same types that won't tell you if a bad batch of lowers made it through that doesn't meet mil-spec, or if they vary from mil-spec for whatever reason. Therefore, why not spend your money knowing that your lower is in-spec in the first place?
That said, the OP here comes in, with only 0 (zero) posts and starts ranting and raving about Plum lowers. No credentials whatsoever, nothing giving his background on why he's qualified to state that they're great lowers. According to him, he's spent over $2,700 on ammo through ONE rifle alone. And that's just ONE rifle, he claims he has at least 4 others.
Using an extremely conservative estimate, he has roughly $5,400 in ammo through his rifles, yet he went with a relatively unknown company in the name of saving money. 0 posts, unusually large amount of ammo put through rifles, and yet he goes with the cheapest rifles he can find.
Of course people are going to be skeptical, because posts like this are typical of shill accounts.
if you dont like a recommendation, no ones forcing you to buy it. This type of tone is reserved for other forums.
I can be abbrasive at times and the internet doesn't help my demeanor.
The reason for my tone was that the poster sounds to me like he's pushing a product for a manufacturer and not the innocent end user he's pretending to be. I don't have any proof of that so I'll defer to other members and let this thread take its course.
Thanks for your personal review.
You guys are killing Me, first off I don't know any of You so to try to impress anyone here would be a mute point. Secondly I would GLADLY compete against ANY of You in a 3 gun or any other match You choose. I load My own and buy bulk, I have 4 sons who also burn ammo like its free. To attack Me for simply sharing My personal experience is juvenile, don't take My opinion I don't care, not trying to impress You. Wanna shoot one? You're welcome to shoot Mine, whatever. You guys act like I'm trying to date Your daughter or somthing, Damn lighten up. You brag about your "top tier" equipment but cry like little girls over $149.00. I was looking for barrels when I ran across this site and seeing no one had any experience with them I thought I would share. That's all no other motive. I am a Merchant Marine Captain and have no interest in any company, Plum Crazy or other.
Failure2Stop
10-12-10, 10:26
Let's settle down and discuss facts.
While it isn't common for people to jump in and make a recommendation without a request, it isn't by default dishonest.
I can't remember a heated discussion about these lowers (ETA-there was one, and this thread has now been merged into it), but then again I don't usually delve into threads that don't interest me in some way. A viable poly lower is kinda interesting, so factual data about their performance (especially in the long run and from multiple sources) is nothing to be shunned.
It wasn't all that long ago that people were bad-mouthing Glocks because of their "Tupperware" frame, who'se laughing now? To be clear, I am making absolutely no correlation between Plum Crazy and Glock, just pointing out that initial impressions can be very wrong, and that blade cuts both ways.
My comment about your choice in uppers was completely out of line. I apologize.
You still have to realize that in your original post you sound like you have an interest in the company even though you say you don't.
militarymoron
10-12-10, 10:35
capt - i think that what the folks are reacting to is that the tone of your post is worded more like a sales pitch than a just a sharing of your personal experience.
if it were titled 'my personal experience with plum crazy' rather than 'the truth about plum crazy', i don't think folks would jump on it as much. what folks have an issue with is someone extrapolating personal experience with a product and generalizing it as 'the truth' about that product, rather than presenting it as a single data point for folks to consider. when more owners of the product present their own data points, then the general populace will then be able to form a better idea.
this is not a dig on your experience or qualifications, but when someone new comes in with a recommendation, most folks would like to know who they are first, before spending their hard-earned money on a product recommendation. this is the same with everyone unless their reputation precedes them.
everyone - let's try get this topic back to the technical qualities of the product being discussed.
edited to add: (i was composing this while F2S posted his post above)
I ran across this site by accident and yes I only joined because I had something to share that I thought would benefit others who shared My passion for shooting. As far as "top tier" ask the Marines and other servicemen who's lives depend on their equipment how much Uncle Sam spent on their rifle or what brand it is. High dollar toys don't make You a better shot Gentlemen, sure trash is to be avoided but you do realize Your "top tier" upper was made in the same factory as many others and then stamped with a name right? And thanks to the member with Your civil post. I usually avoid forums for just this reason, as soon as You post someone with a diff view is just waiting to start crap
As far as "top tier" ask the Marines and other servicemen who's lives depend on their equipment how much Uncle Sam spent on their rifle or what brand it is.
Ummm... those rifles ARE top-tier and we consider them so on this site. Perhaps you should do some more reading, more research, and less posting before making sweeping blanket statements here.
you do realize Your "top tier" upper was made in the same factory as many others and then stamped with a name right?
I think I'd like to hear more about this.
I can see now that My post might look like a sales pitch Guys but as You can see by My choice of other parts I'm not loyal to any 1 company. I build My own so I am free to try many diff parts from many diff companies. Some I like some I don't. I was just impressed with the Plum lower and wanted to pass My experience on, nothing more.
Usually when threads are STARTED involving a T&E with a certain product, Pics, spec comparisons and actual measured advantages or disadvantages are usually best to include since the reader can rely less on your actual opinion and rather on the actual facts or data.
I do not think the OP is a shill or pitching for Plum but rather a bit unfamiliar w. internet board protocol and was just trying to share a positive exp. he has had personally w. the said product.
MrMilspecer
10-12-10, 11:11
Thanks for sharing your experience. You sound like your suprised at how well its working for you and I thats good. Mabey some other owners will post there experience as well. That being said I personally would be leary of that much poly in a gun. Out of my 23+ firearms I have I see little to no plastic or poly parts during takedown only a few in the Browning Buckmark bolt assy. I guess im old-school and will wait until I hear more before considering one. Whats there warranty like ?
Captain_America
10-12-10, 11:23
I can see now that My post might look like a sales pitch Guys but as You can see by My choice of other parts I'm not loyal to any 1 company. I build My own so I am free to try many diff parts from many diff companies. Some I like some I don't. I was just impressed with the Plum lower and wanted to pass My experience on, nothing more.
I'm fairly new to the forum myself. One reason I appreciate is there is a lot of good info and the BS is minimal compared to other sites. There's a pretty good sense of community here. I think folks are just proactive in preserving a good thing. Folks here appreciate quality over price/status/mall ninja factor.
I thought of a dozen responses, but apparently it's charity week, so I'll just say AWESOME review!
I'm sold on the durability and extreme value and might just consider them the next time I need to quick slap together a few more ARs to fill up space in the closet.
Failure2Stop
10-12-10, 11:33
I just merged the most recent Plum Crazy thread with the previously existing one and reopend it with some clean-up.
Be warned: we busted a shill account from Plum Crazy in this thread, as you can all see. IPs will be checked, rest assured.
sure trash is to be avoided but you do realize Your "top tier" upper was made in the same factory as many others and then stamped with a name right?
You do realize you just informed us that you haven't a ****ing clue of what you speak, correct? :sarcastic:
Heavy Metal
10-12-10, 11:41
You guys are killing Me, first off I don't know any of You so to try to impress anyone here would be a mute point
Moot.
You do realize you just informed us that you haven't a ****ing clue of what you speak, correct? :sarcastic:
Really?
I thought EVERY ONE knew that Colt for one supplied ALL their rifles from a factory in France. Factori Nationale I believe is the name, may have mis-spelled I'm a Captain not an English prof.
Failure2Stop
10-12-10, 11:43
I think I'd like to hear more about this.
Rob, come on. You and I both know where you are going with this. Let's not derail a thread due to an individual's lack of information.
Please.
Really?
I thought EVERY ONE knew that Colt for one supplied ALL their rifles from a factory in France. Factori Nationale I believe is the name, may have mis-spelled I'm a Captain not an English prof.
Is this a joke?
Rob, come on. You and I both know where you are going with this. Let's not derail a thread due to an individual's lack of information.
Please.
You might as well just lock the troll.
Really?
I thought EVERY ONE knew that Colt for one supplied ALL their rifles from a factory in France. Factori Nationale I believe is the name, may have mis-spelled I'm a Captain not an English prof.
Do you mean Fabrique Nationale?
http://www.fnmfg.com/
You are mistaken on this point Sir...I suggest you research a little further.
Failure2Stop
10-12-10, 11:46
Guys and Gals, I apologise for allowing this to continue.
Error rectified.
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