View Full Version : Multiple guns..
One thing that I have been thinking over is the idea of having multiple guns in multiple calibers. As we have already seen ammo is currently in short supply, but I've noticed that differing calibers come in and out of stock at different times. This has me thinking that by limiting yourself to one caliber can be a handicap.
I have decided to go with a G19 as my primary. But I am thinking about adding a G22 (or a S&W M&P in .40) and a G21 as backups, just in case 9mm becomes unavailable.
ChristisKing
04-06-09, 07:32
There is an easier way to go multicaliber for your handgun. You can buy say a model 22 or 23 in 40 and buy a lonewolf 9mm drop in conversion barrel. This way you have less to carry and you can save your money for mags and ammo.
I suppose that would work, but I already own a few G19s.
For the price of the G22 and G21 you could get a Dillon setup for 9mm and LOTS of components to build 9mm for a long time. Add to that the amount of ammo you'd need to stock up to make it reasonable as a backup plan. 500-1000 each. Not to mention extra mags, and extra kydex or tactical nylon to carry them in your gear. The G22 and G19 stuff might interchange depending on maker and model, but the G21 stuff will need all new gear.
Or you could probably get 3,000rds++ of 9mm now for the total investment in cash you are thinking about, and add more ammo every week as time goes on for the cost of two more pistols in other calibers plus the ammo to feed them, plus the mags and gear.
One caliber is more logistically sound then multiples, at least in my opinion.
RogerinTPA
04-06-09, 08:45
There is an easier way to go multicaliber for your handgun. You can buy say a model 22 or 23 in 40 and buy a lonewolf 9mm drop in conversion barrel. This way you have less to carry and you can save your money for mags and ammo.
Good point, but you will still need G19 mags for the 9mm barrel.
Thats a interesting point Shivan. I had not considered reloading.
Even if you don't reload simply buying more ammo makes more sense than buying more calibers. The money you would put into a new caliber pistol you could simply buy ammo, 1000 rounds of 9mm runs about $200 right now and for the price of a new pistol, accessories and then the more expensive ammo to run it, you could put away 5,000 rounds for your raining day supply.
Then just resupply what you use it each month and you will always have 5K on hand.
1000 rounds of 9mm runs about $200 right now
And double that for .45 right now!!!! I just about sh&% spending $400 for a case of .45, and I was lucky to find the case at all. Case discounts? Thing of the past...:mad::mad::mad:
ChristisKing
04-06-09, 10:29
I too reload with a dillon nothing but pure win with them. As for the already having 19s that's fine don't spend the money, but if you didn you already have a couple of 19s to help pay for the project. You would also need 19 mags for when you use the 9mm drop in barrel so don't get rid of those.
Beat Trash
04-06-09, 15:56
One thing that I have been thinking over is the idea of having multiple guns in multiple calibers. As we have already seen ammo is currently in short supply, but I've noticed that differing calibers come in and out of stock at different times. This has me thinking that by limiting yourself to one caliber can be a handicap.
I have decided to go with a G19 as my primary. But I am thinking about adding a G22 (or a S&W M&P in .40) and a G21 as backups, just in case 9mm becomes unavailable.
Many who have been in the preparedness game for an extended period of time tend to think the opposite.
By consolidating your calibers, it's easier and cheaper to stock ammunition, magazines, spare parts, and the support gear (holsters, mag pouches, ect) if everything is the same. The time you spend training and practicing also will be more effective if you use the same equipment each time.
So if your reasoning is trying to prepare, I'd suggest picking one gun/caliber. Buy a spare gun. Then buy ammo, and also start looking into reloading.
But if you are trying to justify buying another gun, especially one that you already don't have, then why not, get it. But I wouldn't try to talk yourself into thinking you are doing so for any other reasons than you want one. Which is reason enough...
Preparedness people also generally believe that ammo will make valuable barter goods, Not my personal opinion but food for thought. Personally I stock up on whatever I can whenever I can ammo wise, and buy whatever guns I see on FTF forums that I feel could be of use. I don't buy any guns that I see no use for nor do I ever plan on using them for trade as I don't want them to ever be used against me. Understand that all of this is in a SHTF situation. I currently have 500 to 3000 rounds of ammo for every gun I have with the exception of my 7MM Mag hunting rifle, I do have more then 2000 rounds of parts to reload 7 MM though. The only thing haven't done yet is the Lone Wolf conversion for my G22 and G23 which will happen this summer so I have been purchasing 9mm as well.
Lip
K.L. Davis
04-06-09, 23:06
I just had an interesting conversation about the same topic, but exactly opposite approach... this gentleman was saying to have multiple accounts of the same gun; many, many magazines; and lots and lots of ammo.
I guess there is something to be said for his thinking: 12 Glock 17/19s, a few hundred magazines and 10K+ rounds of 9mm would not take up much room, and if you had been buying them over the last decade or so as bargains come along, you would be surprised just how little money you would have wrapped up in all of that :cool:
Interesting replies in this thread.
What prompted me down this train of thought was that I was at my shop the other day picking up some stuff and there was no 9mm to be found, but they had tons of .40 and .45 in stock at not completely insane prices.
I have about 1,000 rounds or so of FMJ 9mm in my garage right now. I'll wait until supply catches up with demand later this year and get another few thousand rounds.
I would also note that at times like this where there is a run on guns and ammo it would be a perfect time to work on food stores or preparedness oriented equipment etc. However it would be wise to have a nice bit of cash stashed for that gun or ammo deal that pops up now and then due to the bad luck of someone else. That's one of the bitter sweet situations we may find ourselves in, but if its us or them I pick us even if I'm sorry about their bad luck.
Lip
ChristisKing
04-07-09, 07:27
I agree completely about the having cash on hand for ammo deals. I recently ran across 1000 rounds of 308 for $250 that I promptly purchased for my brother who never has cash. The gentleman also had 1000 of wolf 7.62X39 which is impossible to even find right now for $200 for 1000. Being as I just built my first ak (not the first one I've owned but the only one I currently own) I needed some ammo.
I think now is a good time to be reloading too. I'm sure it's tough to find components to reload with but I'm sure it's easier than finding 7.62X39 or even 5.56 right now.
It is nice to have a complete set of clubs putter, wedge, 1-9 irons 1-4 woods. If you can afford a complete set, I suggest you get a complete set. But with guns most of us can not afford a complete set. So what can we get away with, putter, wedge, 1 wood, and depending on the course maybe a 4 & 9 irons. So we should do the same with our gun. Choose your clubs/guns wisely if you can not afford a complete set.
As far as ammo availability, spend the money buy more than you need this may include reloading supplies if you are so inclined. Supply and price will go up and down, but if you have a stockpile at home it should not affect you.
So if you have a 9mm, you really don’t need 40S&W. If you WANT another gun that is a different story.
how about the Sig P250 that seams like an intresting concept
The problem in getting into reloading "now" is finding primers and projectiles. :mad:
Yeah, I've decided I'm going to get into reloading later this year when the people who rushed out and panic bought presses and stuff decide reloading isn't really for them and start to dump their gear.
03humpalot
04-10-09, 08:31
Speaking of reloading and projectiles...any of you guys swage your own jacketed bullets? Im getting ready to drop some coin on kit from Corbin to swage 5.56 and .45acp, any words of wisdom would be much appreciated.
I just had an interesting conversation about the same topic, but exactly opposite approach... this gentleman was saying to have multiple accounts of the same gun; many, many magazines; and lots and lots of ammo.
I guess there is something to be said for his thinking: 12 Glock 17/19s, a few hundred magazines and 10K+ rounds of 9mm would not take up much room, and if you had been buying them over the last decade or so as bargains come along, you would be surprised just how little money you would have wrapped up in all of that :cool:
I went this route, although I don't have 12. Not that I wouldn't mind having that many. I figure instead of having all these extra guns in different calibers I'd just spend the extra money on ammo. But, I was good to go on 9mm before all this started. Going this route, I can keep my ammo supply simple: 5.56, .308, 9mm, .22LR, and now 5.45 for training.
The other benefit to having mulitples of the same gun, is if you get into a self defense shooting/OIS, you can just grab another out of your safe while your original is held for investigation.
On the other hand, I am getting the 1911 itch again, so maybe my theory is about to go out the window. :eek:
Relevant to where I am, readily available caliber's.
9mm, .223, 12ga, 30-06, and 22LR.
If leaving, 9mm and .223.
Alaskapopo
04-25-09, 18:11
For the price of the G22 and G21 you could get a Dillon setup for 9mm and LOTS of components to build 9mm for a long time. Add to that the amount of ammo you'd need to stock up to make it reasonable as a backup plan. 500-1000 each. Not to mention extra mags, and extra kydex or tactical nylon to carry them in your gear. The G22 and G19 stuff might interchange depending on maker and model, but the G21 stuff will need all new gear.
Or you could probably get 3,000rds++ of 9mm now for the total investment in cash you are thinking about, and add more ammo every week as time goes on for the cost of two more pistols in other calibers plus the ammo to feed them, plus the mags and gear.
One caliber is more logistically sound then multiples, at least in my opinion.
I agree. I think its better to stick with standard calibers and limit rather than expand your collection of calibers.
Pat
Iron-sapper
05-15-09, 11:33
I do my planning in layers:
My primary plan is to have a reliable rifle and pistol first, with adequate spare parts, magazines and ammunition. Next I add a spare pistol and carbine in the same model and caliber. Finally, after I am comfortable that the principal plan is successful and redundant I can work a branch plan to encompass another caliber and weapons system.
In practice, I carry a 1911. I have a spare 1911, plenty of mags, box of parts and support gear (holsters, mag carriers, cleaning gear). I reload .45 on my Dillon and have a couple thousand loaded rounds and additional components on hand. Once the .45 plan was complete and I was comfortable and trained with that family of pistols I branched out and bought into the Glock family. Now I have a Model 19, and a spare with mags, carriage and ammo. My tertiary plan was to buy a Model 23 which uses the 19's holsters and mag carriers as well as common frame parts. With a Storm Lake barrel I can shoot 9mm for training commonality but I can also revert to .40 if that is all that I can find or scavenge.
Running a similar plan with the AR family. Carbine, spare carbine, tertiary carbine with plenty of mags and parts as well as ammo & reloading scheme.
Build it as a system -- in layers -- over time, as your funds permit.
MarshallDodge
05-27-09, 15:45
One thing that I have been thinking over is the idea of having multiple guns in multiple calibers. As we have already seen ammo is currently in short supply, but I've noticed that differing calibers come in and out of stock at different times. This has me thinking that by limiting yourself to one caliber can be a handicap.
I have wondered the same thing. Around here .40 is more available than any other pistol caliber right now.
I have a platform that I have standardized on and have the ammo and accessories to support it. There are several other guns in my collection that I like to shoot from time to time and I have a couple boxes of ammo and some spare mags that typically came with them. My thinking is that in case of a catastrophe, I could use any of them for bartering. There will be many unarmed people out there that would be looking for a pistol with a couple boxes of ammo for protection. Just look what happened in this recent blip of craziness, it will be 100 times worse if......
Shivan was right on with the reloading plan. It gives you so much more freedom when you make your own. The cost savings is significant enough that you can typically purchase 2-3 times more components compared to loaded ammo.
Speaking of reloading and projectiles...any of you guys swage your own jacketed bullets? Im getting ready to drop some coin on kit from Corbin to swage 5.56 and .45acp, any words of wisdom would be much appreciated.
I have considered this several times. People keep telling me all the negatives.
If you really love the idea of making bullets, then do it.
If you think you are saving money forget about it.
If you want them to be very very accurate, don't cut any corners.
Don't discount the good ole' 22 LR. You can carry a lot of ammo, it's cheap, it can provide game, and doesn't make a lot of noise. Try carrying 1000 rounds of 45 ACP in your backpack.
exkc135driver
07-02-09, 20:22
Speaking of reloading and projectiles...any of you guys swage your own jacketed bullets? Im getting ready to drop some coin on kit from Corbin to swage 5.56 and .45acp, any words of wisdom would be much appreciated.
When 5.56mm bullets started to get scarce and expensive (ah, how I miss the days when 55 gr FMJBTs went for $28/1000) I thought that I had found the affordable solution ... make your own!!!
Then I looked at the cost. Corbin's presses cost significantly more than reloading presses. But more important, by the time you add up the price of jackets and lead wire, where is the savings? Yes, you can salvage 22 RF cases for jackets, but there is a lot of work prepping them, the dies are really expensive, and I wonder how accurate they are. So I dropped the idea.
I would be very interested to hear your experience if you decide to go this route.
PA PATRIOT
07-07-09, 16:53
I can see were a lot of people like the multiple caliber theme but in a way its impractical. Everyone is placing hope that they will be able to shelter in place or have a fully loaded bug-out vehicle to run with. What if you pushed out of that home or vehicle during a firefight and have to evac on foot. What good is all that multiple caliber gear if you have to leave it behind because one can only hump so much weight.
Building a fight of foot kit is a better option for the adult members of my family, each with a main battle rifle, a semi auto hand gun, magazines and ammo, support gear, body armor, food and clothing that can handle the weather conditions of my area. Just look at the "In Shape" Marines and how they struggle with body armor, guns, ammo and gear, then look at yourself, your personal fitness, how far can you make it on foot over distance with battle gear? Then you may have the family in tow and the gear that you would need to support them.
If this country goes under for whatever reason we are all in a world of sh*t so planning sensible low drag hi return items into your kit maybe the better way to go.
I can see were a lot of people like the multiple caliber theme but in a way its impractical. Everyone is placing hope that they will be able to shelter in place or have a fully loaded bug-out vehicle to run with. What if you pushed out of that home or vehicle during a firefight and have to evac on foot. What good is all that multiple caliber gear if you have to leave it behind because one can only hump so much weight.
Building a fight of foot kit is a better option for the adult members of my family, each with a main battle rifle, a semi auto hand gun, magazines and ammo, support gear, body armor, food and clothing that can handle the weather conditions of my area. Just look at the "In Shape" Marines and how they struggle with body armor, guns, ammo and gear, then look at yourself, your personal fitness, how far can you make it on foot over distance with battle gear? Then you may have the family in tow and the gear that you would need to support them.
If this country goes under for whatever reason we are all in a world of sh*t so planning sensible low drag hi return items into your kit maybe the better way to go.
Good point, I'm young and poor and I don't own my house I just rent, So modifying my house isn't really an option and since I live here in PA too my plan is to head south because I don't think things will go too well with the 8 month winters we have here with a wife and two small kids. So my plan is a minimalist kit because my wife and I can't carry enough to lug around ammo for 3 or 4 different calibers.
RioGrandeGreen
07-09-09, 16:14
Philly PD
Please take into consideration that you as an leo will probably be on duty if SHTF! Therefore, have emergency plans and weapon for your wife and kids to use.
I have weapons that all use the same mags and caliber, HK P2000, USPc .40cal. I use an M4 at work and get some practice ammo so I have an AR15 at home for my wife. I also get a bunch of shotgun ammo for my hunting shotgun.
PA PATRIOT
07-09-09, 21:52
Philly PD
Please take into consideration that you as an leo will probably be on duty if SHTF! Therefore, have emergency plans and weapon for your wife and kids to use.
I have weapons that all use the same mags and caliber, HK P2000, USPc .40cal. I use an M4 at work and get some practice ammo so I have an AR15 at home for my wife. I also get a bunch of shotgun ammo for my hunting shotgun.
So True,
The wife's gear is a mirror image of my own, M-4, G-17, Body Armor, Ballistic Helmet, ect. and she trains as I do on are weekly range trip. We have a set plan on what to do if things go bad and I have 100% faith that she will get the kids to prearranged safe locations depending on the incident.
meisterhau
07-10-09, 04:18
This has been an interesting thread to follow over the past couple of months. As the availability of ammo and supplies cycles, I can see where diversity in what can be had can have a bearing on what weapons systems/calibers people want to pick up. I can also see the logic to running a standard system, and loading up on ammo, parts, and redundancy.
I'm actually doing both at once.
Right now, I know that, for us, we (my wife and I) have standardized with .40 pistols (an H&K USP40 that I got in trade for a song years ago, and an M&P), and a pair of carbines. I'd like to even run duplicate pistols, so mags are interchangeable. My carbine is mine, hers is hers. I'm setting mine up to fit my preferences, and she's free to do the same. We will cross-train with these systems to be able to up and running without thinking about it.
We went with these two for a few simple reasons. First, I already had a pistol in .40S&W. Ammo had/has been reasonably available. I know other people who also run this, so through a small personal network, I have a pool to draw from. The AR was also a fairly easy choice. Again, proven system, very versatile, reliable, and I can probably put my hands on 60 or 80 loaded mags and significantly more ammo within the hour, if the people I know gathered up and pooled resources.
Training cost is an issue, too. I'd like to deal with .22 systems to reduce that. What has kept me from picking up a conversion kit for the AR platform is the almost total unavailability of ammo locally. While there is obviously a major difference between .22lr and 5.56, a lot of training can be accomplished with the much cheaper round, and my daughter can also more reasonably get accustomed to the smaller round before going high-octane. She's starting to develop interest, and I'd like to foster that.
The reason I am interested in multiple calibers is primarily for FAMILIARIZATION with the systems more than anything else. I know damned near NOTHING about the AK. I'm trading stuff I picked up years ago that I don't need/don't use for one. Same with a Garand. I don't plan on either of these to be my go-to, but they are common enough that I may very well encounter one. Nobody I know close by or well enough owns either. I'd like to know a little more about them than just which end to point which direction. Not much money out of pocket (transfer fees and shipping - about $100 total), and I'll have unlimited access. Since these opportunities have presented themselves, I think I'd be foolish to pass them up - two additional, proven systems for a spring cleaning and what's effectively the cost of a couple hundred rounds of 5.56?
I'm a lot less concerned with multiple pistols... fundamentally, a semi-auto is not going to differ as much. I can pick up a Glock or a Sig, or a 9mm or .45 and shoot. I'll go with depth and redundancy rather than diversity here.
Shotguns are notably absent. I have mixed feelings about this. For now, unless some sweet opportunity comes along, I'll probably pass. I'd rather put the funds and effort into our primary systems. I'm not a fan of shooting them, and I don't do much hunting. They certainly do have applications and I do have interest, but for us currently, they are a much lower priority. Relatives have plenty, so access for range time with one isn't hard to come by.
PA PATRIOT
07-10-09, 18:23
I have .22LR CMMG Stainless Steel Conversion bolts for all of are Bushmasters M-4's and they run perfectly on any .22LR ammo we feed it. They shoot -1.8" inches low at 15yds, about -1.0"inches at 25, dead on a 35yds and about -0.25 low at 50yds. Since my Bushmaster is dialed in dead center at 50yds with 5.56 ammo I don't have to play with my battle zero on the optics. Its not to hard at most Wal-Marts to find cheap .22 LR bulk packs in stock if you just ask which days they receive their ammo deliveries, arrive early and buy you six bricks (Store Limit) unless you take the wife along and she picks up another six bricks. This system has allowed us to keep training and reserve are 5.56 ammo for serious work.
You want to have a stock of ammo . If some thing happens sorry, going to the store to buy ammo is the wrong plan of action.
I have been stacking ammo deep for the calibers I mostly want when that special moment arrives.
buy it cheap and stack it deep!
i've kneown people who had a very assorted collection of guns. SKS, AK, AR, Mauser, Mosin, Mini-14/30, Glock, S&W, Ruger, Colt, HK, etc.
no two alike, NO spare parts, and not everything had a holster.
not a great plan IMHO.
i've got multiple Glocks in 9, plus an Advantage Arms .22 kit. spare parts, mags, multiple holsters and mag carriers and a backup of my favorite holster. planning on getting a third just as another spare/demo.
i've got multiple ARs, many of which are set up similarly and a few are duplicates. i've got a S&W 15-22 and would love to get a S&W 15R in 5.45 while that's still cheap. the price of the ammo, and the fact that the rifle could always be converted to 5.56 if 5.45 went away make adding this caliber seem worth it. plan on buying a BUNCH of 5.45 when i do. need to sell some other rifles first. i've got plenty of spare parts, mags and other AR stuff.
because of recent vision problems, i can't aim with my right eye any more and that makes shooting the HKs lefty akward. time for them to go.
cheap ammo will mean more training, and since i'm relearning to do things lefty the .22 and a 5.45 will help.
another thing to consider is that multiple weapons means multiple manuals of arms in addition to holsters and other gear. KISS.
Building a fight of foot kit is a better option for the adult members of my family, each with a main battle rifle, a semi auto hand gun, magazines and ammo, support gear, body armor, food and clothing that can handle the weather conditions of my area. Just look at the "In Shape" Marines and how they struggle with body armor, guns, ammo and gear, then look at yourself, your personal fitness, how far can you make it on foot over distance with battle gear? Then you may have the family in tow and the gear that you would need to support them.
good info ^^^
I am one of those guys that always had a big collection of guns, and several of each, but I read somewhere a while back a different school of thought about having one main hand gun and one main rifle or fighting shotgun, extra parts for each and stream line your calibers, I have sold off doubles of some guns and invested in better red dot sights, a weapons light, slings, extra-extra mags and more ammo, but I have thought long and hard about carrying that ammo and weapons with all my gear......you don't need 3-4 hunting rifles, pick one good one with a good glass and dump the rest, invest in some body armor and a good gas mask ( not some Army-Navy surplus junk )...I used to joke about having enough guns and ammo and holding someone off from my place for a few days, but only until they lobbed that first can of CS gas in my house :rolleyes:....just for though
The military and homeland security calibers are what pistols and rifles that are a must have. Every other caliber is next on the list.
The military and homeland security calibers are what pistols and rifles that are a must have. Every other caliber is next on the list.
and why is that? are you expecting handouts from the military and homeland insecurity or are you planning on intercepting their supplies?
either way, i wouldn't bank on it.
now, there's lots of choice in hardware in 5.56 and gear to carry the mags, and the same for 9, 40 and 45... but if someone decides to go with an AK in 7.62x39 because that's what they have, or an AR in 5.45x39 because it's CHEAP i don't expect it to be a problem as long as they stock up.
if you do get a 5.45 AR, i'd suggest that it's NOT your only AR. i'd want others in 5.56 because currently all the 5.45 is imported.
and why is that? are you expecting handouts from the military and homeland insecurity or are you planning on intercepting their supplies?
either way, i wouldn't bank on it.
now, there's lots of choice in hardware in 5.56 and gear to carry the mags, and the same for 9, 40 and 45... but if someone decides to go with an AK in 7.62x39 because that's what they have, or an AR in 5.45x39 because it's CHEAP i don't expect it to be a problem as long as they stock up.
if you do get a 5.45 AR, i'd suggest that it's NOT your only AR. i'd want others in 5.56 because currently all the 5.45 is imported.Been through the Clinton panic and the Obama panic and if there was ammo to buy in the stores it was the mil and Homeland calibers. Though I am not an internet expert.
and why is that? are you expecting handouts from the military and homeland insecurity or are you planning on intercepting their supplies?
If there is one thing that I have seen the world over, third world up to us, is that there is always "stuff falling off of trucks";).
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