Colt "Port Firing Weapon" [Archive]

Lostinthewoods

04-06-09, 22:05

Back when I was in OBC (1991) I remember a short M16 variant called a "Port Firing Weapon" used in APC's, tanks, etc.

Anyone know what kind of buffer system these had? I remember (I think :) ) the buffer tube was only a couple of inches long.

Or was I dreaming?

Brad

Carne Frio

04-07-09, 00:08

Google m231 colt port firing weapon. There are photos and specs.:D

Lostinthewoods

04-07-09, 09:41

I did that, but could find nothing about the specific buffer, as I remember it being very short.

Thanks, Brad

Carne Frio

04-07-09, 11:51

The image that google showed looked to be not normal length. I selected "images" when
I searched, not the default. The buffer looks to be a an inch or two shorter.

Lostinthewoods

04-07-09, 11:59

I seem to remember seeing some Bellville (wavy) washers involved, but it's been a long time since that class. They ran very fast (over 1000 rpm) so must have had very light weight components.

HB

rob_s

04-07-09, 12:03

Definitely agree that it's very short, if this is what you're talking about

http://www.geocities.com/cavscout031/equipment/sam231.jpg

more info (http://www.answers.com/topic/m231-firing-port-weapon)

The original RIA FPW fired from an open bolt, with an extremely high rate of firing (1,050 rpm). The Colt XM231 introduced a special buffer and spring assembly, with three springs nested one within the other. This was done to allow the rate of fire to be lowered to 200 rpm, because the theory at that period was that, while using all tracer bullets in the magazine , if the high ROF was retained troops would exhaust their magazines before the weapon was brought to target.

Lostinthewoods

04-07-09, 12:11

That's it....... I wonder what's in that buffer ass'y, it says 3 springs, but what else? It also says it is still current issue.

Anyone here have any experience with these?

HB

LonghunterCO

04-10-09, 21:12

A couple of guys on TOS are doing these builds.

http://www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=376628

Lostinthewoods

04-11-09, 09:42

Thanks for the link! Looks like it is open bolt anyway, so the buffer assy probably wouldn't work anyway on our pistols.

NCPatrolAR

04-11-09, 12:50

That's it....... I wonder what's in that buffer ass'y, it says 3 springs, but what else? It also says it is still current issue.

Anyone here have any experience with these?

HB

We had these when I was in Germany and they are still in the arms rooms of units that use the Bradley (I dont know if they are issued or not).

Since the lack sights they were kinda limited in what you could with them. The snipers in our BN did take a few and mount M68s to them. These optic-equiped guns were then giving to the guys carrying the M24 with the itent of them being used to help break contact. I dont know if the idea ever spread to any other mech units.

On the technical side of the house, I recall the buffer system being different, but I dont recall the specifics of it. I only dealt with the 231 for about 2 years and that was around 98-00. I know ours didnt have that retractable stock like shown in Rob's post though.

Harv

04-12-09, 09:37

Why in the Hell would anyone want one as a "Build"

Unless you have your Own M3 Bradley and the ball mount these screw into.

This was a port firing weapon for the Bradleys.. relied on Tracers to aim with and were pretty much useless for just about anything... except one more piece of equipment to maintain and to be accountable for..:mad:

Now pretty much relegated to the "Sounded good at the time" idea bin...

dl021

04-29-09, 21:17

They aren't used, as I understand it, anymore due to the reactive and applique armor packages that surround the external areas of the BFV. You can't shoot through the stuff, and they were fairly useless prior to that.

I do remember that during the first Gulf War (many seasons ago, when the herds were large and the snows deep) some guys used them as dismount weapons, slinging them with M-16 slings and 550 cord. They're fairly handy, as long as you don't plan on aiming them or anything.

Now that everybody gets a shorter barrelled rifle it's not needed for that, so I would doubt they ever see the light of day, and are carried because the Army hates to throw anything out.

All that said.....it'd be cool thing to build and add to the collection. You'll be the only guy on the block with a PFW.

panzerr

05-01-09, 06:29

They stopped using the port firing weapon i want to say on the A3 version of the bradley because the firing ports weakened the armor and if you actually had to employ it from the rear of the vehicle before dismounting you were already screwed.

A buddy of mine from Gulf War I strapped a PFW to his a2 while clearing trenches. He said it worked rather well...

nicholst55

05-18-09, 05:43

A lot of units still have them, but I don't think anyone actually fires them - even if their Bradleys will mount them. One minor problem is that the only authorized round is the old M196 tracer. They have 1:12 twist barrels, so M855 or 856 won't stabilize in them, and I haven't seen any M196 tracer for a long, long time.

They're also not authorized to be fired dismounted from the Bradley, partly because they have no sights and partly because the cyclic rate is like 1200 RPM. It would be difficult to control, and more difficult to actually hit anything with. Besides, with only a 30-round mag, you wouldn't have much time to adjust fire before the mag was empty. Still, I'd love to try one with the wire stock attached (which they haven't had for years), a really good brake on it, and a serious 'chicken-mitt!' ;)

ranger216

07-14-09, 03:07

I think they currently being issued to some Army snipers to break contact.

Harv

07-14-09, 19:46

Ranger216

I think they currently being issued to some Army snipers to break contact.

I would venture it is not a widespread TTP being used. Possibly a few DM's(Everybody thinks there a B8 when they get a Rifle with a 10X scope..)Who found a few in there Arms room that had some leeway and let them out to a few bodies.

A saw a pic of a PFC once who was using a Beta-Cmag... and someone came along and started telling folks he thought there were currently being issued...;)

TOrrock

07-14-09, 20:30

MPi-KMS-72

07-14-09, 20:46

I ran across these last night while looking for some other pics, there are some decent pics of a M231 here:
http://www.autoweapons.com/photos06/nov/381port.html

Kind of neato, the early 1980s issue of Small Arms of the World (12th ed) had a lot of info on the rifle and its development, if you don't have a copy see if you can get it. http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csi/satoc.htm#Submachine

jtb0311

07-14-09, 22:00

From what I've read, I thought these were supposed to be used with a mag full of tracers so you could walk fire up to the target while looking out the port.

Apparently a few were still kicking around fairly early in OIF.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Iraq/M231Iraq.jpg

The man in that photo, Ross McGinnis, was posthumously awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. He jumped on a grenade to save his mates. He was 19.

http://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/McGinnis/

On TOS there's a thread about building non NFA M231 clones (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=376628).

Littlelebowski

07-20-09, 05:45

MODS! cnwholesale is a spammer!

Combat_Diver

07-26-09, 06:52

As late as last year there was a Mech Inf Div that I was attached to still had some in there arms room (no stocks) in OIF. The first generation MARPS had port firing positions on them and you could us your standard M16/M4 through them. Later versions have no ports.

CD

mskdgunman

01-27-13, 14:09

Hate to recro-post but didn't feel this was worthy of a new thread. I have a friend who has a few parts for an M231 which he wants to sell. There are no fire control group parts or anything which is NFA regulated. I'm waiting on a list but I know that he has the buffer tube and possibly the buffer assembly. Is there any interest in these on the collectors market?

Leonidas24

01-30-13, 08:11

The man in that photo, Ross McGinnis, was posthumously awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. He jumped on a grenade to save his mates. He was 19.

http://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/McGinnis/

On TOS there's a thread about building non NFA M231 clones (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=376628).

From my understanding it was fairly common in 2nd Brigade 1st ID during OIF 06-08. McGinnis was from 1-26 (C co I think) and I know of a couple SSGs in my company (A co 1-18) that carried them; mounted and dismounted. It wasn't for any real advantage other than cool-guy effect I guess, as there were a couple others that carried captured MP5s and G3s. Our old 1SG John Hatley supposedly carried a Glock he got off of an Iraqi policeman. I'm not sure of the validity of that, but from what the company did before I got there it seems within reason.