Case Trimmer recommendation for LOTS of brass

[William@swrmfg.com]

I'd like some recommendations for a case trimmer to trim a large quantity of 223 and 308 brass? I have access to a drill press and a small lathe. What do you use when you need to trim more than 1000 rounds?

Thanks in advance,
WE

[jmart]

If you are set on using your drill press, then I'd go with a Forster.

If not, then either a Dillon or Giraud.

The Giraud trims/chamfers/deburs all at once. The Dillon just trims, but the cut is very clean and often you can get by w/o chamfering and deburring.

The Dillon also sizes simultaneously whereas the Giraud is a separate operation performed off the press.

Reconfiguration between .223 and .308 will be quicker on the Dillon, but you need a separate die for the 2nd cartridge.

The Giraud has the better motor, the Dillon motor is warrantied for just one year IIRC.

The Dillon requires a fixed toolhead or a single stage press for operation. It won't work on a rotating head turret press.

[markm]

Depends. I know "ti ti" about .308. But with .223 and some 5.56 you don't need to trim. I can get 3 loadings out of many kinds of brass without ever trimming them.

Now if you have LC or WCC brass, forget it. Those cases stretch like rubber bands. (with the exeption of the LC that Red box Fed AE was loaded in. That stuff doesn't stretch at all)

To get back to what to use... I can't really recommend the Possom gadget. It requires a lot of additional work to clean up the brass after you trim it.

The giraud is the king obviously.

[Solomon]

Sinclair/Wilson Ultimate Micrometer Trimmer w/ Shark Fin (http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/5497/Case-Trimmers) is top of the line if you don't want to fork out for a Giraud. Edit: your topic now says for lots of brass: there is a Wilson drill bit attachment available for this product.

[MarshallDodge]

I have used the Lee trimmer kits for years and they work great.

http://www.cabelas.com/spod-1/0003098.shtml

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Pod/00/30/98/p003098sq01.jpg

You can use them by hand or chuck them in a hand drill.

[markm]

I have used the Lee trimmer kits for years and they work great.

What does it index off of so you don't over trim? How clean is the caseneck?

The possumtestical unit really leaves a lot of post trimming clean up work. :mad:

[MarshallDodge]

It indexes off of the case length gauge by extending through the primer hole and bottoming out on the shellholder. You cannot adjust the length, it is set from the factory to the SAAMI standard.

You buy the lock stud and cutter as a kit and then you buy the shellholder and case length gauge for whatever caliber you are going to reload.
The picture on this page shows better.
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1239285672.1892=/html/catalog/casecon.html

....and a youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_ByDDdMiSg

I chuck mine in the hand drill and it takes about three seconds to trim. After that I run the drill and give it a quick inside and outside deburr with the Lee chamfer tool. It takes about 10 seconds to load the case, trim, and deburr.

I am not a huge fan of Lee products and had my doubts about this one until a friend bought the trim set for doing 222 Rem. I have been sold ever since.

[jmart]

The Lee works great, just not for trimming a lot of brass. It gets old, fast.

Indexing is off a fixed pilot which screws into the trimmer head. Chuck caseholder in drill, unscrew case holder slightly, insert case, screw holder back down firmly, insert pilot, start drill, push down until pilot bottoms out, remove pilot, unscrew casehead to remove trimmed case, repeat. Then chamfer and debur because the cut leaves a lot of burrs.

The problem with a drill/drill press is, it doesn't spin fast enough. That's why the Dillon is so good, that blade spins at several thousand rpm's, the cut is very clean and you can get by w/o deburring.

[sinister]

Giraud trimmer.

Gracey second (with a Bob Jones tungsten cutter blade).

Anything else is wasting time.

[Ttwwaack]

You should have mentioned a budget but I'll go over what I've used and my opinion and results.

Lyman manual case trimmer, slow and inconsistant trimming/turning necks.

Lyman powered trimmer, slow, real slow.

Foster/Bonanza trimmer, slow but consistant. I use it for bolt action brass/case forming.

Dillion RT1200, FL resize and trim in one operation. I use it to trim 308 blanks to primed 308 brass, neck size and load. Needs alittle cleaning up although I've never trimmed 223/308 fired brass in it. Just 308 blank.

Giraud, I've had one for three years. Fast, pretty consistant and plenty of power. I can probably trim 100 cases in about 8-12 minutes but never timed myself. I'm getting ready to set the Giraud up for 308 too for an M1A. For the money I've spent, I wish the Giraud would have been available 20 years ago. For production loading with a single stage press it is good. A Dillon 650/1050 with case feeder and die head set up for trimming, the RT 1200 would probably be the way to go with case feeders ect.

One thing I've notice with the giraud, It has to be set up specifically for each neck diameter. I use a .245/6 for AR's and a .252 for a bolt gun. Can be difficult to adjust until you learn the trick of using a sized and trimmed case to set the cutter diameter.

The Dillon was a loner from a friend. No a bad piece of equipment, pretty consistant but from what I've seen, the brass has to be neck sized after trimming. If you are loading on a single stage, that is three times through the press.

The Lyman stuff is going on the auction block. The Foster will remain for light duty with various rifle calibers. If I were to purchase another crank case trimmer again, I would look at the Sinclair Wilson Set up.

[KellyTTE]

Possum Hollow Kwick Case if you're going to use a drill press. I don't seem to have the massive cleanup issues that some are having. I give it two turns with a Lyman deburring tool inside and out and it rarely takes more than two turns on either end.

http://www.possumhollowproducts.com/kwick-case-trimmers.html

[JStor]

I use the Wilson case trimmer. It's nice, but it's a little slow. The nice thing is it gets the neck trimmed straight because the case is being held in alignment with the case holder. I wish I had a Gracey. The Lee trimmers are good for only limited amounts of trimming. They'll drive you crazy and wear out your fingers. They do work, but there's better ways.

[supersix4]

Giraud.

[Rembrandt]

For large quantities, go with a power case trimmer. Gracey and Giraud are very good choices. I went with a RCBS with a trim-pro 3 way cutter head.....does everything in one pull of the lever....and it's fast.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/reload%20room/trimmer-swag.jpg

[sinister]

Nice rail inset on that bench!

[Brassheap]

I had the same issue(s). I'm all about doing things on the cheap where possible so here's what I did. Went to Sinclair international. Ordered two of the wilson case trimmers with the drill attachment (you get a cheaper price on the set) and one of the possum hollow case trimmers. I then went to harbor freight and got three electric drills for $13.99 ea.. I mounted these to my bench, and put them all on the same power strip. After I size all my brass, I can rip through trimming and chamfering both the inside and outside of the case necks. Also when needed I deburr the inside of the flash holes using the same drill just by changing out one of the tools. Less (way less) than $100 and I don't have to tear down my dillon to mount a seperate case trimmer (not that it's a big deal............but still).
Just a thought.

[chadbag]

I use the Dillon RT 1200B. Since I am FL sizing anyway this gets rid of that step for me in having to size, then trim, etc.

I basically fill the XL 650 case feed with lubed brass and pull the handle. I have never had to worry about chamfer/debur since the carbide blade on the Dillon is going at 5k+ rpm and makes a nice clean cut.

I just start pulling the handle. That is it. Out comes a nice pile of trimmed brass. I did 1000 in one hour more or less. Then I stick the brass in the tumbler for 1/2 hour to get rid of the lube, then fill the case feed back with the non-lubed brass and load. I don;'t risk getting lube in the primer pocket, which was happening when I was sizing and not trimming (messing around). I just back the normal sizing die off a bit so it only does the neck bit and pops the primer.

(There are other more fancy ways of doing this for those who care to)

[jmart]

I use the Dillon RT 1200B. Since I am FL sizing anyway this gets rid of that step for me in having to size, then trim, etc.

I basically fill the XL 650 case feed with lubed brass and pull the handle. I have never had to worry about chamfer/debur since the carbide blade on the Dillon is going at 5k+ rpm and makes a nice clean cut.

I just start pulling the handle. That is it. Out comes a nice pile of trimmed brass. I did 1000 in one hour more or less. Then I stick the brass in the tumbler for 1/2 hour to get rid of the lube, then fill the case feed back with the non-lubed brass and load. I don;'t risk getting lube in the primer pocket, which was happening when I was sizing and not trimming (messing around). I just back the normal sizing die off a bit so it only does the neck bit and pops the primer.

(There are other more fancy ways of doing this for those who care to)

I do a variation of the same. On my case prep toolhead (550), station #1 has trim die, station #3 has conventional resizer adjusted just as you describe.

On loading toolhead, station #1 has a Lee Universal Flaring Die adjusted to just barely kiss the case mouth. Two good things happen: any micro burrs on the mouth's interior are ironed out and the slightest flare is put on the mouth which aids seating FB bullets. By the time the case makes it through seating and crimping, the flare is removed.

[William@swrmfg.com]

Thanks to all for the input. I thought I would save money by getting something I could use in my drill press but I think I'll look closer at the powered options. I watched a youtube video of both the Giraud and the RT 1200B. The Giraud is very fast but I'm wondering if the RT 1200B will save me even more time by resizing as it trims? Any comments from the Giraud folks? I do have a 550 and the idea of having a head setup for prep and another setup for loading sounds efficient. Any comments on this? Again thanks.

-WE

[dave5339]

I run an RCBS Trim Pro with the 3 way cutter for both 223 and 308.

I am giving some very serious thought to going to the Dillon trimmer in order to speed up the reloading process and cut down on the amount of brass handling during the process.

Semper Fi

[jmart]

While I like my Dillon, one negative I didn't mention is, it is pretty loud.

I load in a detached garage, and I wear ear muffs when I'm running the trimmer. It has a vacuum attachment to hook up to a shop vac to suck up all the shavings, but I just do without and occasionally use the vac mnaually when shavings start to build up. But if you are inclined to run it with the vacuum attached, add that to your noise footprint.

Again, not a problem for me since I'm out back, but if this were set up in the basement, my better half would not be thrilled.

I've never seen a Giraud in action, so I can't comment on how the two compare from a noise perspective.

[m4fun]

Like E-guns, I use a Dillon 1200B. I wish I was doing it on a 650, not a 550 - I really dislike manual indexing and case loading...oh well. I use a universal decapper in station 1 and the 1200 in station 3.

I moved to this to more or less keep up with the capabilities of my 1050. I was using a Gracie(works like a pencil sharpener) but was never happy when some of the brass just wouldnt fit in quite right. Felt better with the 1200's size and trim method.

I will also second Jmart - this thing cooking with the vacuum going...I just earphones. Pretty much limit my interval to 1 hr at a time.

[William@swrmfg.com]

Like E-guns, I use a Dillon 1200B. I wish I was doing it on a 650, not a 550 - I really dislike manual indexing and case loading...oh well. I use a universal decapper in station 1 and the 1200 in station 3.

I moved to this to more or less keep up with the capabilities of my 1050. I was using a Gracie(works like a pencil sharpener) but was never happy when some of the brass just wouldnt fit in quite right. Felt better with the 1200's size and trim method.

I will also second Jmart - this thing cooking with the vacuum going...I just earphones. Pretty much limit my interval to 1 hr at a time.


Great info! Thanks again to all.

[mutterranch]

jmart
I'm set up similar to you (550) with two tool heads. Except, I have a small base sizer in station #1 and the Dillon trimmer in station#3. My logic is that the expander in the first die takes care of any dents in the necks before they go to the trimmer. Is there an advantage to having the trimmer ahead of the other die?
After trimming I tumble the lube off and run a universal de-capper in station #1 on my loading head just to be sure there is no tumbling media stuck in the flash hole.
I like the idea of the flair die ironing out any micro burrs. Will it also clear the flash hole?

[jmart]

I deprime before the initial tumbling to get all the grunge off. That's done on a SS press. It's an extra pull of the handle, but often I just deprime, tumble and then toss in a bucket for later processing, so it doesn't feel like it takes any longer by the time I get around to prep and loading.

The reason I set up the resizer after the trimmer is to bring the neck back up in diameter. The Dillon trim die really squeezes that neck down, and I end up bringing it up another couple of thousandths after running it over my polished expander ball. I polished the ball to result in approx .003 neck tension. That, combined with a light crimp, prevents any setback.

I know there's a lot of guys that run the trimmer after the resizer, and if it works for them, rock on. I just have becommed accustomed to my setup and I like the way it works for me.

The case flaring die doesn't deprime, so you have to start with an already de-primed case on your loading toolhead. The flaring die is just added insurance, in reality I don't think it's absolutely necessary, but given how my case prep toolhead is setup, that left an empty slot on the loading toolhead so I thought to make best use of it add the flaring die. It does help with seating FB bullets, but otherwise it's not really all that necessary. They cost only $10-15 IIRC.

[jpipes]

I run a Giraud and I would sell many of my rifles before i got rid of my trimmer. It is, without question, one of those pieces of gear that you use once and question how you ever got by without it.

Get the Giraud, and us the significant time savings to shoot more. It is that good.



P.S. I am hoping to have the same revelation with the SWR Omega 300 (Come on ATF, andy week now!) for my precision rifle....how did I ever shoot without one?

[Storydude]

Depends. I know "ti ti" about .308. But with .223 and some 5.56 you don't need to trim. I can get 3 loadings out of many kinds of brass without ever trimming them.
.

This is true.....If you don't mind in-accurate ammo, and using a Case extractor to remove the blown out brass from the chamber..

All rifle brass grows upon Firing. If you want accurate ammo, using cases that are not trimmed is not the way to do it. Different trim lengths cause different neck tension, different neck tension caused the bullet to release at differing pressures.

Differing pressures cause inaccurate ammo, because velocity is not constant....among other things.


Never mind the first time you jam a untrimmed case into the Leade, you run the risk of increasing pressures way past dangerous levels.

Plus, getting an OAL consistent is going to be fun..........As is getting a decent, REPEATABLE crimp.


Trimming brass is a part of reloading that must not be skipped....If you want to produce the best ammo you can. If all you are looking for are noisemakers and flyers, by all means, reload as found on the ground.:D

[mutterranch]

jmart,
Thanks, I knew you had a reason. My neck tension is a little tight but I'm finished in two passes through the press. Good accurate ammo and lots of it fast...
Thanks again.

[frbowers]

I grabbed a Giraud when they first came out and when I was shooting a lot of high power. It's a very well made tool and I like the fact that it chamfers as well as trims. I really dislike trimming and chamfering brass, but the Giraud makes it tolerable. I use a Forster trimmer for small lots and keep the Giraud on stand by for large amounts of 223, 308, or 30-06. It is important to make sure you have a good sizing set up that results in a consistent shoulder location or else you will get some variation in case length with the Giraud.

Forrest