View Full Version : How would you do yours - Mods
I thought this would be a interesting post to either bring back or bring to life.
This will give myself and others ideas to ponder for current and future projects.
What modifications would you make on a standard off the shelf 16" carbine? By standard I mean everything basic, A2 design, nothing special to start with.
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/Images/pcwa2x14m4my.jpg
Obviously the intended purpose or usage of the firearm is crutical to it's mods so state your intentions in your response.
Derek_Connor
12-28-06, 22:19
A shit ton of ammo.
Repeat.
Rifle Class.
Repeat #1.
Repeat #3 ;)
Buy a lot of ammo, take a rifle class, and get involved in some local shooting sports (ie. IDPA or IPSC pistol...most local clubs have carbine side matches, 3 gun competition, etc).
As you learn more about the weapon system and your personal preferences (experience from training, shooting, matches, etc) it will become clear to you what modifications YOU desire.
K.L. Davis
12-28-06, 22:48
1. Put a sling on it.
2. Follow the above advice.
Dang it, I was going to make the same ammo comment as Derek. Barring the "shoot your way to proficiency" answer and sticking to modifications:
-Replace the rear sight with a same plane aperature (so I can use the smaller aperture on longer shots without worrying about how my zero was affected).
-Replace the front sling swivel with a side swivel, and put a MI MCTAR-30 on the back end to run a BFG Vickers 2point.
-Attach a simple weapon light, maybe a surefire G2 in a VTAC mount on a short rail section bolted to the handguard (or something similar). Make sure it's arranged so I can activate it easily but doesn't interfere with my sling.
That's about it using a standard A2 carbine as a starting point, without replacing the upper. It would function well as a simple carbine that would make a good backup for training, or for teaching/loaning to others, or a truck gun, or maybe a house gun. I can live without optics at the distances inside my house.
That one? Job #1 would be something other than that muzzle device so I wouldn't be voted off the island, then a sling. After that it's just the boring attempts to wear it out. ;)
GastonG-NoVa
12-29-06, 01:39
One pt. sling with mount
Light of some sort
Aimpoint or Eotech.....if not at least a trijicon front post
Not really mods, but do these as well:
Lots of ammo
Take a class or two or five
Shoot with folks that have a bunch of experience
Good luck,
G
As far a "dressing" the weapon
1)single point sling (unless your planning on rappeling or fast roping I dont see a 2pt as an advatage)
2)Light -- G2 or similar in a chuck of 1913 rail on the handguard
3)Gen II Redi-Mag
4) AO same plane rear sight - and large dot front (if you dont want an optic)
Follow USMC03's advice on training and getting involved in the shooting in your area.
Submariner
12-29-06, 06:58
Decent magazines, preferably with Magpul followers. 30-rounders, if legal where you are.
ETA: Longer magazines are easier to manipulate.
Here's what I would do:
1) Send the upper to ADCO to have that Y brake removed, the barrel threaded and a Phantom installed. Those Y brakes are just obnoxious and rude and if you take a class other students will hate you :)
2) Next I would invest the three dollars in a HD extractor spring and o-ring.
3) Install a Vickers Tactical 2 point sling
4) Follow the Derek Conner's advice
Ok let me take a spin...First I'm going to replace the A2 with an A4 flattop upper, change out the round forward assist with an oval ol'school one. Get someone to chrome out the bolt carrier, change to a titanium firing pin. Add a MagPul trigger guard, put on a single point sling and swivel, add a rear flip up sight, an Eotech holographic sight (sounds cool,never seen one), put on a railed forearm with forearm grip that can accomadate a pressure pad for the tac. light to be mounted. Change out the Ycomp. with a bird cage. Add MagPul loop floor plates to my 'preban' 30 rounders (I'm in Taxachusetts), and replace the 2 position telestock circa 1993 with a newer 6 position telestock.
Later on for looks, at a M203 launcher or similar toy.
BTW I just bought a case of 5.56 ammo (52 boxes of 30rds.)so that part is taking care of..
As for Tactical classes...I would love to take one of those three day courses up in the woods of NH but they run 6-800 beans a piece, plus you need to supply 1100 5.56 rounds, 600 rounds for your sidearm and all the tac gear you can muster for three days of combat training. OH but that would be an F'N blast.:D
I'd skip the titanium firing pin. The only advantage they give you is letting you practice charging the gun. Chroming your BCG isn't going to give you many advantages that an occasional cleaning couldn't overcome.
Ok let me take a spin...First I'm going to replace the A2 with an A4 flattop upper, change out the round forward assist with an oval ol'school one. Get someone to chrome out the bolt carrier, change to a titanium firing pin. Add a MagPul trigger guard, put on a single point sling and swivel, add a rear flip up sight, an Eotech holographic sight (sounds cool,never seen one), put on a railed forearm with forearm grip that can accomadate a pressure pad for the tac. light to be mounted. Change out the Ycomp. with a bird cage. Add MagPul loop floor plates to my 'preban' 30 rounders (I'm in Taxachusetts), and replace the 2 position telestock circa 1993 with a newer 6 position telestock.
Later on for looks, at a M203 launcher or similar toy.
BTW I just bought a case of 5.56 ammo (52 boxes of 30rds.)so that part is taking care of..
As for Tactical classes...I would love to take one of those three day courses up in the woods of NH but they run 6-800 beans a piece, plus you need to supply 1100 5.56 rounds, 600 rounds for your sidearm and all the tac gear you can muster for three days of combat training. OH but that would be an F'N blast.:D
Do yourself a favor and take the class. Look at all the stuff you're talking about doing...it's like 7-800 dollars worth of parts and work. You'd be much better suited to take the class (note: it's not combat training, it's shooting training). In the class you'll see what others are using on their rifles to make them work better, you'll learn what's good and bad about your current setup and what needs to be improved. Most importantly, you'll become a better shooter. Remember, shooters are made not born.
Get more ammo. You'll never have enough.
Don't let something as stupid as tac gear dissuade you from training. I've shot many a class working with a simple belt rig and reloading magazines out of my jeans pockets and I've got all the tac gear a guy could need. All you really need for a class are: ammo, mags, functioning weapons, a good holster and sling and that's IT.
If you're dead set on tinkering with that rifle at least read USMC03's post about necessary mods for carbines (link (http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/8601034811)).
Jay Cunningham
12-29-06, 14:02
Ok let me take a spin...First I'm going to replace the A2 with an A4 flattop upper, change out the round forward assist with an oval ol'school one. Get someone to chrome out the bolt carrier, change to a titanium firing pin. Add a MagPul trigger guard, put on a single point sling and swivel, add a rear flip up sight, an Eotech holographic sight (sounds cool,never seen one), put on a railed forearm with forearm grip that can accomadate a pressure pad for the tac. light to be mounted. Change out the Ycomp. with a bird cage. Add MagPul loop floor plates to my 'preban' 30 rounders (I'm in Taxachusetts), and replace the 2 position telestock circa 1993 with a newer 6 position telestock.
Later on for looks, at a M203 launcher or similar toy.
BTW I just bought a case of 5.56 ammo (52 boxes of 30rds.)so that part is taking care of..
As for Tactical classes...I would love to take one of those three day courses up in the woods of NH but they run 6-800 beans a piece, plus you need to supply 1100 5.56 rounds, 600 rounds for your sidearm and all the tac gear you can muster for three days of combat training. OH but that would be an F'N blast.:D
Since this is the interweb, I can't tell if you were kidding around or not. If you were, that was pretty good.
If you were/are serious, I'd recommend that you do a lot more reading of the threads here and then maybe re-evaluate your position.
Just a friendly suggestion.:)
Heavy Metal
12-29-06, 14:23
Lose the Y-Comp.
Put a MI Rail and a good VFG on it or at a minimum some M-4 double shield handguards.
Forget the Titanium firing pin. A total waste in an AR as the hammer dictates 85% of the lock time. Steel takes shock better anyway.
Forget chroming the bolt, hard to do it after the fact. There might be some merit in NP3 on the BCG but that would be the last thing I spent money on.
Consider a PRI Gasbuster charging handle, upgrade your extractor spring, insert and outsert (I like the MGI D-fender) and consider a heavier buffer. I love the MGI RRB for that and other reasons. Its pricey but worth every single penny IMO.
Then ammmo and classes and practice.
Honestly and respectfully, I see that this post wasn't taken as it was intended, purely for fun and imagination. I will however take the following suggestions as I'm new to this platform and seek answers as questions come to me.
Thanks and Happy New Year:)
JMJ
hireforfire
12-29-06, 18:22
like said above but I would definately not hesitate to ask others with trick stuff if you can shoot it or check it out especialy if you ask nice. Take it from others that have started like you and spent lots of $$ on crap before they found what works. If you are doing it right you should have to spend alot more on ammo than anything else for your weapon. If you go to a class Dress for out doors, bring six good function tested mags 2000 rounds of ammo(never show up with the minimum Because more often than not you will have the chance to dump alot more) a good attitude and listen to what the instructor has to say. The best instruction for a new shooter comes in the form of getting time behind the sights and listening. If you are capable of shooting your rifle accurately and safely a good carbine instructor will turn you around and make you a skilled shooter in a few days then it is up to you to continue practicing what you learned and learning more. You can find some one day classes out there and that would be a good start. As far as gear goes use USGI pistol belt with a mag pouch and it should cost very little and serve you well you don't need body armor, 20 mags, Huge Medicalpouch etc. etc just stick to the basics.
Also Resq47 Will kill you if you show up with a Y comp on you rifle. Change that out before you shoot a class for the sake of the others and you will be more liked
Alpha Sierra
12-29-06, 18:38
First I'm going to replace the A2 with an A4 flattop upper
Agree.
change out the round forward assist with an oval ol'school one.
Why?
Get someone to chrome out the bolt carrier
Money wasted on bling
change to a titanium firing pin.
Waste of money as the firing pin is not the limiting factor in an AR's lock time
Add a MagPul trigger guard
I've always gotten along just fine with a GI one
put on a single point sling and swivel
You might want to try a two-point tactical sling before deciding
add a rear flip up sight
OK
an Eotech holographic sight (sounds cool,never seen one)
You might want to try an EOTech and several other optical sights before deciding
put on a railed forearm with forearm grip that can accomadate a pressure pad for the tac. light to be mounted.
There are simpler ways to mount a light on an AR
Change out the Ycomp. with a bird cage
Since you live in Mass, your rifle better be pre-ban to do this
Add MagPul loop floor plates to my 'preban' 30 rounders (I'm in Taxachusetts)
and replace the 2 position telestock circa 1993 with a newer 6 position telestock.
Since you live in Mass, your rifle better be pre-ban to do this
Later on for looks, at a M203 launcher or similar toy.
Don't
BTW I just bought a case of 5.56 ammo (52 boxes of 30rds.)so that part is taking care of..
Buy more. Lots more
As for Tactical classes...I would love to take one of those three day courses up in the woods of NH but they run 6-800 beans a piece, plus you need to supply 1100 5.56 rounds, 600 rounds for your sidearm and all the tac gear you can muster for three days of combat training. OH but that would be an F'N blast.:D
Best money you will spend. Besides, all you need is some sort of way to carry three or four rifle mags and a couple of pistol mags plus some outdoor clothes you already have and some knee and elbow pad from Home Depot.
Slather it in Mayonnaise and let 14 kittens and 7 puppies lick it clean...Then just shoot it and leave the rest alone.
K.L. Davis
12-29-06, 20:26
Honestly and respectfully, I see that this post wasn't taken as it was intended, purely for fun and imagination. I will however take the following suggestions as I'm new to this platform and seek answers as questions come to me.
Thanks and Happy New Year:)
JMJ
JJ,
How to put this...
As you noticed, M4C is a little bit different forum than some of the others... while some may be put off by the folks here, there is the potential to learn a LOT from the crowd that has gathered. If you look at some of the names here (and as you find out who some of the more cryptic handles belong to), you will see that the forum has some talent and experience that you would be hard pressed to find in any other public board.
That said, don't take the replies to this thread as negative... but the deal is that most folks here are much more into practical and reliable and function will almost always overshadow form -- not that are not some pretty damn nice looking weapons posted on M4C, just that very few look like they belong to the poster child from some Tactical Webstore.
Please accept my (our) open invite to be part of what is going on here though... new shooters only become old shooter with time and each and every person here has been a new shooter at some point in their life... for some, that is a lot longer than others, like our beloved Grant who just clicked the elevation up one more notch!
Feel free to ask anything... I assure you that you will need no more than some humor and a little thick skin now and then, but what a person can learn here is really quite impressive. As you have seen, the "pimp my rifle" threads don't go over here as well as some other places, but consider that a positive -- for a lot of us "fashion builds" just ain't how we roll.
K.L. Davis
12-29-06, 20:37
Slather it in Mayonnaise and let 14 kittens and 7 puppies lick it clean...Then just shoot it and leave the rest alone.
Great... imagine the wife standing in the middle of the living room as dogs and cats (covered in mayo) are tear-assing all over the place...
"But honey, it said to do this on the Internet?"
:eek:
baffle Stack
12-29-06, 22:27
JJ,
How to put this...
As you noticed, M4C is a little bit different forum than some of the others... while some may be put off by the folks here, there is the potential to learn a LOT from the crowd that has gathered. If you look at some of the names here (and as you find out who some of the more cryptic handles belong to), you will see that the forum has some talent and experience that you would be hard pressed to find in any other public board.
That said, don't take the replies to this thread as negative... but the deal is that most folks here are much more into practical and reliable and function will almost always overshadow form -- not that are not some pretty damn nice looking weapons posted on M4C, just that very few look like they belong to the poster child from some Tactical Webstore.
Please accept my (our) open invite to be part of what is going on here though... new shooters only become old shooter with time and each and every person here has been a new shooter at some point in their life... for some, that is a lot longer than others, like our beloved Grant who just clicked the elevation up one more notch!
Feel free to ask anything... I assure you that you will need no more than some humor and a little thick skin now and then, but what a person can learn here is really quite impressive. As you have seen, the "pimp my rifle" threads don't go over here as well as some other places, but consider that a positive -- for a lot of us "fashion builds" just ain't how we roll.
Yeah dude, everyone's a noob at something
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=2885
JJ,
How to put this...
As you noticed, M4C is a little bit different forum than some of the others... while some may be put off by the folks here, there is the potential to learn a LOT from the crowd that has gathered. If you look at some of the names here (and as you find out who some of the more cryptic handles belong to), you will see that the forum has some talent and experience that you would be hard pressed to find in any other public board.
That said, don't take the replies to this thread as negative... but the deal is that most folks here are much more into practical and reliable and function will almost always overshadow form -- not that are not some pretty damn nice looking weapons posted on M4C, just that very few look like they belong to the poster child from some Tactical Webstore.
Please accept my (our) open invite to be part of what is going on here though... new shooters only become old shooter with time and each and every person here has been a new shooter at some point in their life... for some, that is a lot longer than others, like our beloved Grant who just clicked the elevation up one more notch!
Feel free to ask anything... I assure you that you will need no more than some humor and a little thick skin now and then, but what a person can learn here is really quite impressive. As you have seen, the "pimp my rifle" threads don't go over here as well as some other places, but consider that a positive -- for a lot of us "fashion builds" just ain't how we roll.
No no!... no hard feelings at all K.L.D., I picked up on the mood of this forum after about 2 replies when everyone was saying..'just throw a sling on it and shoot the sh#t out of it. :p It's all good...that's why I said 'honestly and respectfully' because I know most here will have real and trusted info. to share.
Thanks for the mention though.
Glockster35
12-30-06, 12:49
Only thing I would change would be the Flash suppressor/Compensator...buy ammo and shoot it, see what else you want to change after you get the rifle broke in.
Detail a list of things you want, versus things you have to have to make it how you want it. Figure out what order you have to buy the items in, and start from there.
it's expensive at first, but once you get rolling, I think you will find it rewarding and addicting.
I have one lower, and probably 5 different uppers for it already, and I have only fired my rifle once!:D
Army Chief
12-31-06, 09:24
I still fail to understand why you would want twice as many kittens as puppies on the mayonnaise gun, but to each his own.
On a more serious note, this comment ...
As you have seen, the "pimp my rifle" threads don't go over here as well as some other places, but consider that a positive -- for a lot of us "fashion builds" just ain't how we roll.
... irrevocably confirmed for me that M4CN is a place worthy of my time and interest. Thanks much, and I look forward to getting to know the terrain around here a bit better in the months to come.
Chief
I just signed on to this forum. Glad I did based on what I've read so far.
Last year I just had to try my hand at building my own.
It's not an M4 but it's still my one and only so far:
CMT A3 upper. CMT BCG.
RR lower.
16" mid length barrel, 1:7, chrome lined. .72 O.D.
Stag lower parts kit.
Magpul 93 stock.
TangoDown battle grip.
La rue mid-length quad rail for end. Some ladder rail inserts.
Single pt. Sling.
A2 flash hider.
Aimpoint ML2 w/ ARMS throw lever mount.
Flip-up front sight. GGG flip up BUIS.
The grip, stock, and ladder inserts are OD green. I thought that would look wicked.
This pimping out was not necessary, but I had to get it out of my system. Plus it was such fun, and shoots like a dream.
Now I want to build another, so , gentlemen, I would welcome some suggestions that are basic and practical.
Jeff308
My opinion:
(1.) Ditch the stock brake and have a Vortex installed.
(2.) Check the stock carrier key to make sure it’s properly staked.
(3.) Crane o-ring, HD extractor spring, black insert
(4.) HK or USGI mags
(5.) Blue Force Gear / Vickers Tactical two point sling
(6.) Mount a small piece of rail to the stock hand guards – mount a G&R WG6D/9D or Surefire 6P light.
(7.) Aimpoint M2/M3 mounted on carry handle - that’s how it was done for years and it still works fine. (You posted a picture of an A2 AR)
(8.) Cleaning kit & lube - keep it reasonably clean & VERY well lubed.
(9.) Attend a training class
(10.) Shoot the shit out of it.
VA_Dinger,
Thanks. I have an extra of the same barrel. That's what I'll use for the next one.
Does the Vortex screw on the same threads as the A2 flash hider?
VA_Dinger,
Thanks. I have an extra of the same barrel. That's what I'll use for the next one.
Does the Vortex screw on the same threads as the A2 flash hider?
Yes it does. You also don't need to use the crush washer and leave the Vortex hand tight (don't torque it on).
C4
Since I have an older Colt Ltw Sporter, I'll relay what I've done to it. Ammo, mags and training being a given.
It came with a standard A2 flash suppressor, otherwise those brakes have to go.
trijicon tritum front sight
M4 handguards
GG&G slick mount w/ a surefire classic 6v weapon light w/xm switch
Boonie packer 2pt sling
Badger Ordnance genII charging handle latch
Tango down battle grip, was going to put an A1 on, but found this, like new at the gunshow, for 10 bucks. Already have one on my 6920
Repalced fixed A2 stock w/ Colt 4pos collapsible.
Fairly simple.
Eagle has a few simple chest rigs, for less the $100 that would work fine for a class.
Bob
Yes it does. You also don't need to use the crush washer and leave the Vortex hand tight (don't torque it on).
C4
Grant. Thanks. I may give you a call in the not-to-distant future.
Jeff
+1 Ammo, mags (a nice goal would be 20 mags) and training.
With the carbine you shown, I would just need the following:
Phantom FS
Troy BUIS
Crane O-Ring in the bolt extractor
Any good dot sight like Aimpoint or EOTech, etc and LaRue mount.
Any good tactical light mounted on my FSB or handguard.
Blue Force Gear or Specter Gear sling.
What I usually do to upgrade my most used USGI mags:
Magpul gen 2 followers
Wolff extra strength mag springs
Magpul Ranger or L-plates
A nice simple mag chest rig like my Eagle-SKD Tactical Universal MOLLE version.
K.L. Davis
01-05-07, 16:32
I just signed on to this forum...
This pimping out was not necessary, but I had to get it out of my system. Plus it was such fun, and shoots like a dream.
Now I want to build another, so , gentlemen, I would welcome some suggestions that are basic and practical.
Jeff308
I certainly hope that on one here would ever beat up on someone for building something just because they *want it* -- everyone has a vice, and tricked out ARs aint a bad vice!
I just think you'll find that you will not be told you *need* that stuff for no other purpose than to have it... If experience has shown that in a given situation, something amounts to no more than extra weight, I would hope to know the people that are willing to share that knowledge.
"Cool guy" points are great... but the trick is that they are only redeemable at certain places -- to others, they mean jack shit ;)
Here is a great, simple gun that I bet (if you build) you find yourself picking up more and more as you go shoot.
Upper and lower receiver (with associated innards)
16" medium/light profile barrel, midlength gas block and "dissy" rifle length FSB
regular old plastic handguards
M4 buttstock
"Scout" style scope mount with a decent low power scope, nothing fancy, a
good shotgun scope works great
Spray paint it your favorite color
Id add a sling, some training, and a metric ass-ton of ammo. As far as everything else goes, Id pretty much keep it stock. Except for that horrible blasphemous item at the end of the barrel. For all that is good in the world, remove it and put an A2 on there. :cool:
I certainly hope that on one here would ever beat up on someone for building something just because they *want it* -- everyone has a vice, and tricked out ARs aint a bad vice!
I couldn't agree more!
Upper and lower receiver (with associated innards)
16" medium/light profile barrel, midlength gas block and "dissy" rifle length FSB.
What type upper? A regular A2 w/ carry handle? Also, forgive me, but I am unable to visualize a mid. gas block.
Does 'dissy" mean disseminator? And "dissy" rifle lenght FSB is confusing (no offense meant).
The barrel I have is a mid lenght with a standard FSB in the midlength position.
"Scout" style scope mount with a decent low power scope, nothing fancy, a
good shotgun scope works great.
Would you explain about the scout style scope mount? How it looks and mounts, and who makes 'em. I have a Burris 2.75 with Leupold QD rings that are low mounts. Would this work?
And, BTW, thank you. This config. sounds real interesting.
Jeff
K.L. Davis
01-09-07, 23:01
Would you explain ...
Jeff
That particular rifle was one I built from PLA supply (parts laying around), some years back I had an idea to have some 16" barrels made with the FSB mounted for full length handguards and a gas block at the midlength position under the handguards (dissipator style)... they were not realy popular then though :(
So I built a rifle with an A4 upper (generic), I think it was RRA lower with an older M4 stock, cavarms hand guards, and that was about all.
The scope mount (iirc) was from RRA and was a hacked version of their "scout" mount that had room for a folding rear sight... I stuck a 4X "shotgun" scope on it and gave it a nice coat of some flat green spray paint form the hardware store.
That simple, but it was a treat to shoot...
Thank you,sir.
I understand now. I'll have a look at RR's scout mount and see if this will work on a mid length (with mid. hand guards).
Jeff
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