View Full Version : Do you know any black gun owners?
I'm sure I'll get castrated with a spoon asking anything remotely "race related" but I was wondering, do any of you know any black gun owners?
I find it rather discouraging that I know of only one. I have yet to encounter a black gun owner at a gun shop, gun show, range, etc. While I feel that it isn't about "who" the legal, responsible gun owners are but rather that there are more of them out there, I just wish they were a more visual, represented part of the community.
So, do you know of any black gun owners?
No. I have a couple black friends, but due to typical youth inspired antics, the only guns they own were purchased out of trunks of cars. They do not often go out to ranges shooting or CC the firearms that they can not legally own.
There are most likely a similar percentage of black to white gun owners, but there are 10 times the number of white folks (guessing) so the numbers fall to show many more white owners.
I know quite a few black gun owners. Most of them are former military personnel who work for my current employer now.
JediMindTricks
04-11-09, 08:31
One of my very best childhood friends is from Trinidad, and he's the proud owner of a WASR10, and a G21. His cousin has a WASR10, a Bushy AR-15, a Mossy 500, and a hand gun (?). One of my neighbors is a SWAT officer.
My Trinidadian friend actually had to brandish his G21 when 5 drunk frat boy types surrounded him in a parking lot and wouldn't let him get into his car after he finished having dinner with some friends. He also mentioned when a convict escaped from from a near by jail, and was roaming around his neighborhood, that he slept on the couch with his WASR10 in fear for his wife's/son's safety. He's a cool gun owner.
Also I have a neighbor that I met actually walking to the polls during the recent election. He voted for Obama, but I made conversation with him respectfully and we have since become occasional running partners. The other day I spoke with him about the 2nd, and it's meaning as well as some history about gun control, and how originally it was used to keep blacks from attaining guns. Needless to say he was all ears, and agrees with all of my points. I think I will take him shooting eventually so he can become another armed law abiding citizen!
Not a single one. Then again, the county I live in has all of 3 black people in it.
C4
Not a single one. Then again, the county I live in has all of 3 black people in it.
C4
Same here....have many a hispanic compadre that are gun owners & big time hunters. Lots of them in leo & it's just a regional deal.
CarlosDJackal
04-11-09, 09:27
- A co-worker (black) and her husband (white) are Gun Owners. Although she happens to be very Liberal in her political views.
- A member of one of the local LE Agencies SWAT. Political view unknown.
- A fellow Reserve Deputy and a retired CO. Conservative views.
- A couple of members of my Gun Club. The one I've had the most contact with is a hadrcore shotgunner. Very Liberal politically.
- Another co-worker who happens to b a Ranger (school-wise). Unknown Political view.
I know multiple. One of my collegues recently asked me to take her to the range so she can learn some basics.
I know quite a few black gun owners. Most of them are former military personnel who work for my current employer now.
Same here.
RogerinTPA
04-11-09, 09:42
I know quite a few black gun owners. Most of them are former military personnel who work for my current employer now.
Same here, and I am one. Former military/ black, and several go to my range.
30 cal slut
04-11-09, 10:11
don't know any personally, but i see lots of nice african-american folks at the local gun shop signing up for ccw classes and buying blasters.
i'm sure they all voted for BHO. :rolleyes:
I know a couple, and yes, they voted for Obama.
So, do you know of any black gun owners?
Yes, lots.
So, do you know of any black gun owners?
A few.
:D
thopkins22
04-11-09, 11:31
http://www.blackmanwithagun.com/
Pretty decent podcast. "Here you’ll find some interesting and controversial information about the age old argument of gun control from the point of view of a law enforcement trainer, author, and grassroots activist of color known as the Black Man With A Gun."
now that I think about it, aside from myself , no I don't know of any
black gun owners. Never even saw one at any of the carbine or handgun
classes that I've taken. I'm the only one that I know of.:eek:
HAMMERDROP
04-11-09, 12:49
But the reason they have (hand)guns is different from why I/or maybe 'we' have them. They live in parts of St Louis City and if your local you know where the high crime zone is and thats where they reside. And most were car trunk purchases. But most would be prohibited from legal purchase due to the stupidity of their youth.
I met a Black gentleman a few weeks ago at a range he was with a White woman in the next stall his name was Aaron both he and his gal were firing handguns and he became intrigued w/my AR so I let him fire it, he had never fired an AR and I thought he would hug me afterwords he was so jazzed and its cool to see somebody get excited over what some take for granted. He was a nice guy, wore his pants where they should be and had a hard respect for the range rules. And then the 8 White guys two stalls down were re-loading and handling their weapons during target swap. Sure I should have said something and I would have if they were wearing camo, but they had plad flannel sleeveless shirts on which scares me more. :D
2269
Michael
Joe_Friday
04-11-09, 12:58
I know quite a few, most of whom I work with and they are used for hunting purposes (deer, quail and dove) in general but there are a few others that own firearms for HD/SD. The people that have them for HD/SD actually purchase pretty nice equipment and enjoy going to the range. The typical HD pistols are 1911's and Glock 17/19. Nearly all lean to the left side of politics but they are still adament about gun rights.
geminidglocker
04-11-09, 13:01
Yes actually, but only one. I live in Vermont and we don't have a culturaly diverse bunch of folks.
I met a few in Virginia while stationed there (this was only during trips to the gun store or range so limited community interaction).
Here in Cottonwood there aren't many black people but met one couple who volunteered at the local gun show (Worked for a gun store here so met just about everyone around town who was into shooting).
Yeah, a few.
Also, I frequently see a black guy at the local range who usually has an AR that he's shooting. Nice guy, we usually have a little friendly chit-chat.
I'm sure I'll get castrated with a spoon asking anything remotely "race related" but I was wondering, do any of you know any black gun owners?
I find it rather discouraging that I know of only one. I have yet to encounter a black gun owner at a gun shop, gun show, range, etc. While I feel that it isn't about "who" the legal, responsible gun owners are but rather that there are more of them out there, I just wish they were a more visual, represented part of the community.
So, do you know of any black gun owners?
A few yes, but not as many as I would like. The black community is by in large anti gun, because they see the results of guns on their communities (blaming the tool syndrome), vote Dem most of the time, and fail to realize that gun laws in this country were based on preventing free blacks from having guns and are racist at their foundation. If most black Americans really understood guns and gun laws, and what guns really mean to free men, they would own more guns. The article The Racist Roots of Gun Control By Cramer worth reading:
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html
As much as it amazes me most in the black community don't "get it" when it comes to guns, it's even more amazing the American Jewish community are so anti gun,* but that's another topic! :eek:
The one group who does "get it" of course being:
http://www.jpfo.org/
I'm sure I'll get castrated with a spoon asking anything remotely "race related" but I was wondering, do any of you know any black gun owners?
Yup - me. Besides myself, a coworker who's a retired Navy Chief and serious gun guy, and a good friend who carries a gun for a living, but has no interest in shooting beyond qualification scores.
I'm the odd man out politically.They are both social liberals; I'm a little right of Attila the Hun.
Mr.Goodtimes
04-11-09, 17:13
I'm a little right of Attila the Hun.
you and me both bro :D
i saw an old buddy from high school at the range a couple weeks ago, i had no idea in high school that he was a gun owner, or had any interest in them. im not sure what his political views are, i know he sure didnt like bush, but then again, a lot of conservatives didnt. he was shooting an AK of some kind and a smith and wesson automatic of some sort. hes a good guy, funny as hell.
aside from him, my neighbor is a federal LEO, im not sure what his views are or if hes interested in guns at all.
i always see a couple black folk in the gun shop/range when i go up there to shoot.
as far as the way people dress, idc. theres a lot of styles out there, variety is the spice of life, idc what people wear, what ever floats your boat. i wont judge a book by its cover. ill wait till someone starts talkin. if you wanna wear your pants down past your ass with a t shirt thats more like a night gown and a 1000 dollar chain, alright...
i do wish i saw a more diverse group of people at the range though, its nice to see folks or different race/religion/backgrounds brought together with a common interest, being able to look past each others race/religion etc.
beliefs are beliefs weather your a christian, jew, muslim, balck, white, chinese, or canadian.
im an equal opertunity hater. stupidity is stupidity, no matter what color you are. all the ignorant white trash i see walkin around spoutin their crap at the clubs and range etc. bothers me just as much as all the wanna be drug dealin gangstas.
Other than a few I work with and a few I serve with in the military, no.
What a chance to further our cause. What if everyone that says no made it a point to invite someone from a different ethnic background than yourself to the range this year? Not only could it help get the message out, it surely couldn't hurt race relations either. Hmmm
Almost everyone that I know who owns a gun has a black gun or two. Oops! wrong question. Yes, I know several gun owners who happen to be black. One in particular has some of the sweetest bolt guns around.
Where I live and work, I am happy to see the color barrier disappearing. It's actually been quite a while since I found it odd to sit at a bar with whites, asians, hispanics, blacks and native americans. It must be a geek/nerd thing. We all do software.
I shot in a trap league with two middle aged black guys form the Cleveland area. Can't recall if they had any other guns, but they sure loved shooting trap.
Two of my friends are black gun owners, one I met here, the other I used to work with, now he has a CCW and two handguns, and three more that I plan on shooting with in the next week or so.
Where I live and work, I am happy to see the color barrier disappearing. It's actually been quite a while since I found it odd to sit at a bar with whites, asians, hispanics, blacks and native americans. It must be a geek/nerd thing. We all do software.
Perhaps we'll live to see the day when the barriers between geeks and normal people will begin to fall.
;)
Yes. The new president of Heckler & Koch, for one. He's been with the company for many years and rose through the ranks.
It's also a mistake to assume that you can judge gun ownership per capita in a population by the number of them who show up at ranges where almost everyone else is white. Just sayin' ...
BushmasterFanBoy
04-11-09, 19:59
I've seen a few black gun owners at the range, thought not as many as you'd think there should be in proportion the population, but then again I live in a very white area of Ohio.
Great question. I'm a black gun owner and, yes, I know several. The numbers are higher than what they'd lead you to believe BUT they are not what I'd or you'd consider "SHOOTERS". There are few of them, for sure. I've not met any during any defensive shooting courses I've taken and myself and another Black guy are two of maybe four who would IDPA in the area.
I used to work with a few friends at gun shows in the Detroit Metro Area and few Blacks would attend. This was from 1996 through 2000.
I worked with close friends who own a gun store in Westland, MI (Wayne County) and statistically fewer Blacks purchase and/or shoot than make up the population. Other gun stores see higher percentages like the two stores in Oakland County, MI.
In the Deep South they are more hunters of all races and there are a large number (no idea the percentages since I'm not a big hunter) but again fewer than they represent in the population.
The mental conditioning in the Black community is strong. They associate firearms with crime since they see it all the time which is also reinforced in the Black Church and Community Leaders. Some don't wish to be associated with the negative image of Blacks=Guns= Crime so it's just not openly acknowledged or discussed. This does not mean that there are no firearms in the Black community because they are. They just don't seem to find them attractive enough to collect them as a hobby as your community does. Of course, myself and my friends are "radical exceptions" as other Blacks perceive us to be.
I wish they'd wake up. I always throw out the fact that original gun control was directed at newly freed Blacks during the Jim Crow era. I also remind them of the Night Riders and Klan who would terrorize any Black that tried to live the American Dream as outlined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. My observations indicate that Blacks in the US are too "peaceniky". I understand why they are that way; they had to be pacified in order to keep them suppressed which was done with brutality. It did not effect all but there is a large percentage (I don't know what it might be) that is that way and those that seek office and positions of influence are that way. If they deviate the Mainstream Media villifies them so, in effect, it is a "controlled" society.
I'm not discussed in glowing terms by many as my hardcore Constitution-based philosophy does not fly with them - nor with the majority of Whites, either, if we look at the last five elections...
madisonsfinest
04-11-09, 20:27
I personally own a Glock 17, Glock 22, LMT MRP, and a new owner of a Remington 700 SPS Tactical. This summer I plan on picking up a Glock 19 RFT when the come out. Got to handle the Glock 22 RFT, and I have to say that I do like the feel of the rough textured grip.
"I'm not discussed in glowing terms by many as my hardcore Constitution-based philosophy does not fly with them - nor with the majority of Whites, either, if we look at the last five elections..."
Boy, do I know where you're coming from with that statement. Good thing I have a thick skin. I'm affectionately (or maybe not so) called "off-white" every now and then. Just as another poster stated, I am also to the right of Atilla the Hun.
I also find myself giving history lessons to my brethren,whether it be which
party "actually" got the 1964 civil rights bill passed,or which party fought against
the KKK "back in the day".;)
... I wish they'd wake up. I always throw out the fact that original gun control was directed at newly freed Blacks during the Jim Crow era...
Gun control ... Drug prohibition ... Zoning - look into the history of any of these elitist (liberal) concepts and discover their racist roots in common.
Gun control ... Drug prohibition ... Zoning - look into the history of any of these elitist (liberal) concepts and discover their racist roots in common.
True that.
Ghostface03
04-11-09, 23:34
I'm sure I'll get castrated with a spoon asking anything remotely "race related" but I was wondering, do any of you know any black gun owners?
I find it rather discouraging that I know of only one. I have yet to encounter a black gun owner at a gun shop, gun show, range, etc. While I feel that it isn't about "who" the legal, responsible gun owners are but rather that there are more of them out there, I just wish they were a more visual, represented part of the community.
So, do you know of any black gun owners?
I am one. My father, 2 of my 4 brothers one who is in LE. A barber shop owner in the city I was born in. Three of my cousins. One friend, two uncles.
Ghostface03
04-11-09, 23:38
http://www.blackmanwithagun.com/
Pretty decent podcast. "Here you’ll find some interesting and controversial information about the age old argument of gun control from the point of view of a law enforcement trainer, author, and grassroots activist of color known as the Black Man With A Gun."
Haha, I forgot to mention him. A facebook friend.
Gun control ... Drug prohibition ... Zoning - look into the history of any of these elitist (liberal) concepts and discover their racist roots in common.
...Eugenics.
I think its called something else these days.
Interesting question and interesting responses, especially those from our black gun owning friends who shared their experiences with the black community at large.
Its really hard to get an accurate answer. If you are a white dude, who lives in a predominantly white area, you aren't really going to have any black friends at all, gun owners or not. Law enforcement / military is the exception but there you have a greater likelihood of finding people who are into guns in general, so they aren't really representative of the population, black or not.
I was friends with several black guys when I was in high school who I've lost touch with (along with almost everyone else from my youth), that based on their beliefs, etc, are probably gun owners today. But I really don't know.
Going a bit off topic, I really have no understanding of why so many Jews are anti gun. You would think given our history, we would all be armed to the teeth! But the only other Jews I've met who like guns are Israelis. I mean, I've known people who survived the SS camps, and I lost relatives in them. The fact that my Father and Step-mother are rabid anti gun just blows my mind.
Gutshot John
04-12-09, 00:02
Several...one of whom is one of the best shots I've ever seen with a carbine.
lonewolf21
04-12-09, 00:39
other than leo's i work with, no. ive never seen any at my gun club either. living in the south you would think this would be strange.
I've never really lived in an area that had lots of black folk. Growing up in Mass our high school had 2 or 3 black kids. Here in Utah the percentage of the population that is black is very small. However, when I was working at Word Perfect in the 90s there was a good friend who was black who was into shooting and RC planes, both of which I was in to at the time (still am though the planes kind of get taken out once a decade now). This guy had some interesting guns. After getting laid off after Novell bought WP I lost track of the guy.
Also, the head of this group
http://www.core-online.org/
spoke at the 1994 Gun Rights Rally in DC. They are fervent pro-2A.
I know a few including myself. I'm 26, I own a S&W M&P15, Glock19, and a WASR-10. Two of my cousins are LEO's in west Tx and their black. I really don't post alot on here but from reading the info on here it has really done me some good.
MarshallDodge
04-12-09, 01:53
Unfortunately, I personally don't know anyone who is black and likes guns. We did have a guy come to one of the local pin shoots that was black and he did very well but I haven't seen him since. :(
E-guns is right about the black population out here, it is very sparse. When I lived in the Chicago suburbs there was a much higher black population and would see people of color at the range quite frequently. Just like women, we need everybody we can get on our side.
QuickStrike
04-12-09, 05:06
At least 2 at my work.
I'm sure I'll get castrated with a spoon asking anything remotely "race related" but I was wondering, do any of you know any black gun owners?
I find it rather discouraging that I know of only one. I have yet to encounter a black gun owner at a gun shop, gun show, range, etc. While I feel that it isn't about "who" the legal, responsible gun owners are but rather that there are more of them out there, I just wish they were a more visual, represented part of the community.
So, do you know of any black gun owners?
I know quite a few. Maybe only one or two are former military, the rest are just people that love too shoot.
variablebinary
04-12-09, 07:00
A couple, yes
I do know black people with guns. I think it depends on the group of people you socialize with. If you don't know many black people, you probably won't know many black people with guns.
Here is one thing I've noticed among people I socialize with. I think a lot of black people are hesitant to get into guns because of the social stigma. For example, a white guy would probably feel completely comfortable going into a gun shop, getting excited and saying something like, "I've always wanted one of these!" or "I'd love to have one of these!" or "This would be great for shooting people!" All of the other guys in the gun store would probably just smile. I think a black guy would think twice before saying something like that because of the way it might be perceived (and it would probably be perceived differently). But, that might be because most of the black people I know are pretty respectable and responsible, and they are used to having to think about how what they say and do is perceived.
I'm probably not explaining myself well, but I think most people know what I mean.
Joe Mamma
A couple and one of them is a local LEO and patrol/narcotics dog trainer too.
Blinking Dog
04-12-09, 08:26
Based on my trips to the range, classes I've attended, and competitions I've shot in, I think it is safe to say that the slightly overweight older white male dominates the "gun nut" category.
Nathan_Bell
04-12-09, 08:37
I do know black people with guns. I think it depends on the group of people you socialize with. If you don't know many black people, you probably won't know many black people with guns.
Here is one thing I've noticed among people I socialize with. I think a lot of black people are hesitant to get into guns because of the social stigma. For example, a white guy would probably feel completely comfortable going into a gun shop, getting excited and saying something like, "I've always wanted one of these!" or "I'd love to have one of these!" or "This would be great for shooting people!" All of the other guys in the gun store would probably just smile. I think a black guy would think twice before saying something like that because of the way it might be perceived (and it would probably be perceived differently). But, that might be because most of the black people I know are pretty respectable and responsible, and they are used to having to think about how what they say and do is perceived.
I'm probably not explaining myself well, but I think most people know what I mean.
Joe Mamma
Acquaitance (yeah I spelled it wrong) of mine is an older gent who did 36 years at GM (his wording) after moving up from Alabama in the late sixties. He has a shottie and a couple pistols. He didn't mention it until we had to make a 2 hour drive together and he hymm-hawwed around the point for probably 15 miles getting to the point to telling me he had guns and asking me what I thought of them and what ammo he should get. He made th point several times tht he just had them for self defense etc. He was very worried about the perception you spoke of.
One guy that used to hang out at a local gun shop. He was a black hill billy. He hunted, fished, and lied about both well enough to click with the denizens of Appalachia that hung at this shop. His nephew hunted, but I think it was more of a make my mother's brother happy than liking to hunt.
I know a few others who are LEO's that also have personally owned firearms, but not many.
I'm Black and know lots of Black gun owners.But then again my family and circle of friends mainly are Christian and Conservative in nature.I guess were part of the 8% that didn't vote for our current POTUS.Then again my family has always had a strong military participation for our country including myself and 1 of my bothers. Both of my grandfathers and great grandfathers served in the military as well.Also down here in Louisiana we like to hunt and fish a lot.But one reason you don't see a lot of Black people at gun shows "at least in my area" all you have to do is look at the literature on a the tables.
I'm sure I'll get castrated with a spoon asking anything remotely "race related" but I was wondering, do any of you know any black gun owners?
I find it rather discouraging that I know of only one. I have yet to encounter a black gun owner at a gun shop, gun show, range, etc. While I feel that it isn't about "who" the legal, responsible gun owners are but rather that there are more of them out there, I just wish they were a more visual, represented part of the community.
So, do you know of any black gun owners?
Many. I know several who are into evil-black-rifles and NFA stuff. The range where I used to work has a very good number of black customers who shoot on a regular basis. There are several black male nurses and surgical scrub technicians at the hospital where I work who are into firearms.
RogerinTPA
04-12-09, 10:56
Despite the current culture, there still is not a level playing field. Even though this is the 21st century, there's still a lot of hate in this world, and our country. Mostly hidden, but still alive and well. Perception is reality to most of us. Their are many blacks, jews, women, and other minorities, that have firearms for strictly personal/home defense. Most will never go to a range on a regular or even a annual basis. Most will never admit to owning a firearm due to personal OPSEC and past atrocities committed.
I've known many gun owners across the board, that have firearms sitting in night stands that never practice or just the annual range trip. Most gun owners don't know that they need training or to stay proficient, at all, including military. I run out of fingers and toes at the amount of CCW permit holders, of all ethnic back grounds, that have never been back to the range after their initial handgun training. Current economic conditions, makes new gun purchasing, personal training, cost of ammo and pay for training, less and less appealing to the common person, regardless of race, though the desire is still there. Just look at the size of classes shrinking. I have got quite a few people interested into shooting, but after seeing the cost to sustain weekly, bimonthly, or monthly practice, most give up after initial purchase and a few trips to the range.
Joe_Friday
04-12-09, 11:15
But one reason you don't see a lot of Black people at gun shows "at least in my area" all you have to do is look at the literature on a the tables.
I know exactly what literature you are talking about and it also lends to the stereotypical "redneck/hillbilly with a gun" banter that the anti's love so much. Gun shows in South Georgia have increasingly become a haven for the ignorant. I have not been to one since 2007 and have no intentions of going to any in the future, until they get control of who they rent tables to. Plus I really do not need any kitchen knives either. :rolleyes:
Their are many blacks, jews, women, and other minorities, that have firearms for strictly personal/home defense. Most will never go to a range on a regular or even a annual basis. Most will never admit to owning a firearm due to personal OPSEC and past atrocities committed.
I really enjoy being a vocal politically, fiscally, and socially conservative gun-owning Jew. Was at the range yesterday with a fellow conservative Jew shooting my fullauto MP5K-PDW, fullauto fullsize UZI, and suppressed Beretta 92FS. I love when my lib-tard friends ask me why I NEED an UZI or other machinegun. I tell them it is because I am Jewish and it is a birthright. Actually, many members of my Dad's side of the family (the Jewish side) are vocally conservative and own firearms for self protection. Sadly, none of them practice with regularity.
The black community is by in large anti gun
:rolleyes:
*...groan...*
...ummm...no...
Mace
Yes, I know several. I shoot with a group in Annapolis MD. There are several black members of the club. I have not discussed the Obama issue with them as we don't really know each other that well. I am sure that though they disagree with O on guns, they are happy in a way that America elected a black man to the office.
RogerinTPA
04-12-09, 17:49
Hi there, rharris. BTW, what's up with the Kool-Aid jug? Sorry for being nosy...
Regards,
DS
LOL! It means I'm a Kool Aid drinker of Colt, LMT, M&P pistols..., which is not as ghey as "fanboy".
LOL! It means I'm a Kool Aid drinker of Colt, LMT, M&Ps...
rharris2163 means as in complete and/or blind loyalty to them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid
Joe Mamma
...the head of this group
http://www.core-online.org/
spoke at the 1994 Gun Rights Rally in DC. They are fervent pro-2A.
Roy Innis is hard core. (bad pun intended)
He's probably best known for arguing with the KKK tards on the Geraldo show that erupted into a chair-throwing brawl in which Geraldo's nose was broken (and the crowd cheered).
The simple question should be does the proportion of black gun owners reflect their overall representation in American society, which I believe is between 10% and 15%.
Living here in diverse NJ, I would say no. More like 5% in the places I frequent.
Yes, one of the hardest core EBR collectors I know, and someone I consider a friend.
I`m black and I own several guns(25+),and I did not vote for Baka Odumbo. I`m originally from Chicago and I know how bad democrats can foul things up. I served 4 years in the Marine Corps and now I live in the Northern V.A. area. I`m a hardcore republican and a L.E.O, and most of my friends feel the same way I do. So yes there are a few of us out here who didn`t drink the kool aid. I`m so far to the right on most issues that I`ve been accused of being white,which has caused me to wonder if I was adopted.
MarshallDodge
04-12-09, 21:34
I`m so far to the right on most issues that I`ve been accused of being white,which has caused me to wonder if I was adopted.
That's too funny. :D
Welcome aboard.
The simple question should be does the proportion of black gun owners reflect their overall representation in American society, which I believe is between 10% and 15%.
Living here in diverse NJ, I would say no. More like 5% in the places I frequent.
Perhaps this is true in Jersey, Safetyhit. But the numbers are far greater than what you're likely to see at the gun range for the reasons several of the Black members here have mentioned. I'd say that there are relatively few Black "shooters" (persons like us who enjoy black rifles and gain some level of satisfaction training with them). I know many who own an inherited pistol but never take the time to train with it. My father had a .38 Special revolver for at least 30 years and never fired the thing. He eventually gave it to my sister who carried it for a while until I bought her a S&W 442. He - my father - would be the "typical" Black gun owner. Here in South Louisiana there are a lot of hunters so you will find many Blacks with shotguns and .22LR that they use to hunt deer, squirrel or what have you. In the four months I've been back home I've not found another Black "Shooter"; not that I'm particularly looking though finding a nice, single Black female during a local IDPA match would be kinda nice. :)
I've taken a several carbine classes and I've met only one Black guy during the classes and this conversation came up over beer and pizza in three of the classes. I've taken several handgun classes and I was the only Black person there, too. The impression is that only "racist militia types" would attend any type of "gun event" so there is little desire to attend any. Yes, I definitely met some who definitely fit that stereotype in every single rifle class. And there were "normal" Black Rifle persons who shared my "peculiar hobby".
Another question is how many of you know Blacks who hike, camp, canoe or kayak? I've yet to meet one in my jaunts across Michigan. I know of some who do but I've not met them on the trail. I also know a Black family that rodeos and hunts in Michigan. They, too, are not "Shooters" as I define the term. I think the psyche of Blacks and Whites are very different in that regard. How can I say that? Because the ones I've spent considerable time shooting with were all taken aback about the concept Combat Shooting Training. They all said to a man (and I'm paraphrasing/summarizing here) that the thought of actually training to "kill" another human being was not something they thought was healthy. Okay, I can accept that and I agree that it's deplorable that one can rationalize that it is okay to practice this due to the horrors in our society. HOWEVER, I find it much more a reflection of the state of our postmodern society than, say, my psychological state of being. Well, that's my opinion anyway.
The Blacks I know that ARE "Shooters" are usually ex-military or sometimes law enforcement - usually SWAT cops or Fed "Shooters" of one sort or another. There is a helluva lot of shit for Black America to overcome due to the experiences we've had here in the US and I don't think the Media is assisting at all and surely our "Fearless Leaders" would rather it remain this way as an unarmed populace is far easier to control than an armed, martial populace. And keep in mind it was only forty years ago that horrible things occurred in this nation that were lawful so it will take time for some things to fade away.
I encourage all to study history. If Blacks would study the documented social ramifications of trying to gain direct access to the Constitution and Bill of Rights they'd all be well-armed. As it is the media and powers that be have conditioned the Black leaders to placate those that respect Authority over Truth (the majority of mankind it seems) and thus we have anti-gunners leading the Black churches and many of the so-called Community Leaders such that the educated amongst us tend to dismiss the need for hardcore self-defense despite the ugly history, the current gang/drug/crime issues and our current precarious economic/political condition. On the other hand I know of numerous Black New Orleans residents who used their AKMs and AR-15s to defend their neighborhoods and these same carbines were used to maintain order at the N.O. Convention Center if their words are to be believed. So there ARE some Black Rifles in the Black Community but there is a great distrust of gov't, in particular - and by default, unfortunately, with White America, in general, in the Black Community that White America may or may not be aware of. So I am not at all surprised (but still disappointed) that there is not a 15% Black enrollment in courses around the nation. Perhaps that will change soon but I highly doubt it.
I`m black and I own several guns(25+),and I did not vote for Baka Odumbo. I`m originally from Chicago and I know how bad democrats can foul things up. I served 4 years in the Marine Corps and now I live in the Northern V.A. area. I`m a hardcore republican and a L.E.O, and most of my friends feel the same way I do. So yes there are a few of us out here who didn`t drink the kool aid. I`m so far to the right on most issues that I`ve been accused of being white,which has caused me to wonder if I was adopted.
You have lurked for 2 years to post this. I'm sorry, but I find that amusing. Welcome and cheers! Good on you that you think for yourself and didn't adopt some kind of racial party line.
I hate how racist all the black people are who voted for Obama simply for his color. I can think of no greater show of racism than to want to put a man in position of such power on no merit other than that he is the same color as oneself.
As to "acting white". How does that work? I have lived in areas where the blacks are predominantly from Canada/up north. They behave just like anyone else. So it was quite a shock when I moved to Louisiana. I learned something. All black people aren't the same (neither is any other race for that matter, but I already knew about white trash, ect. However, I had always viewed certain terms as racial instead of personal. I now feel otherwise. Some words that most of this country will view as racial, I view as personal. i.e. meant to describe a certain person who exhibits certain behavior. Not an entire race.). Anyways, it amazed me how far below the curve a lot of the black population is in my area that I now live in. Most of the blacks I have talked to/am friends with who came from out of state had the same reaction as I did.
As to this 15% black population should = 15% enrollment in CC programs. Well, it is sad to say, but more of that 15% is convicted felon than the other 85%. Is this just? Why? I don't know and refuse to speculate, but that is one of the reasons why that 15% is not represented equally in some circles.
madisonsfinest
04-12-09, 22:15
How did a persons politics get dragged into this thread? The OP asked, "Do you know any black gun owners?" This is not a dig on the last poster here, but based on the totality of posts to this thread in which ones political ideology is brought into this when race was the only question.
Perhaps this is true in Jersey, Safetyhit. But the numbers are far greater than what you're likely to see at the gun range for the reasons several of the Black members here have mentioned. I'd say that there are relatively few Black "shooters" (persons like us who enjoy black rifles and gain some level of satisfaction training with them). I know many who own an inherited pistol but never take the time to train with it. My father had a .38 Special revolver for at least 30 years and never fired the thing. He eventually gave it to my sister who carried it for a while until I bought her a S&W 442. He - my father - would be the "typical" Black gun owner. Here in South Louisiana there are a lot of hunters so you will find many Blacks with shotguns and .22LR that they use to hunt deer, squirrel or what have you. In the four months I've been back home I've not found another Black "Shooter"; not that I'm particularly looking though finding a nice, single Black female during a local IDPA match would be kinda nice. :)
I've taken a several carbine classes and I've met only one Black guy during the classes and this conversation came up over beer and pizza in three of the classes. I've taken several handgun classes and I was the only Black person there, too. The impression is that only "racist militia types" would attend any type of "gun event" so there is little desire to attend any. Yes, I definitely met some who definitely fit that stereotype in every single rifle class. And there were "normal" Black Rifle persons who shared my "peculiar hobby".
Another question is how many of you know Blacks who hike, camp, canoe or kayak? I've yet to meet one in my jaunts across Michigan. I know of some who do but I've not met them on the trail. I also know a Black family that rodeos and hunts in Michigan. They, too, are not "Shooters" as I define the term. I think the psyche of Blacks and Whites are very different in that regard. How can I say that? Because the ones I've spent considerable time shooting with were all taken aback about the concept Combat Shooting Training. They all said to a man (and I'm paraphrasing/summarizing here) that the thought of actually training to "kill" another human being was not something they thought was healthy. Okay, I can accept that and I agree that it's deplorable that one can rationalize that it is okay to practice this due to the horrors in our society. HOWEVER, I find it much more a reflection of the state of our postmodern society than, say, my psychological state of being. Well, that's my opinion anyway.
The Blacks I know that ARE "Shooters" are usually ex-military or sometimes law enforcement - usually SWAT cops or Fed "Shooters" of one sort or another. There is a helluva lot of shit for Black America to overcome due to the experiences we've had here in the US and I don't think the Media is assisting at all and surely our "Fearless Leaders" would rather it remain this way as an unarmed populace is far easier to control than an armed, martial populace. And keep in mind it was only forty years ago that horrible things occurred in this nation that were lawful so it will take time for some things to fade away.
I encourage all to study history. If Blacks would study the documented social ramifications of trying to gain direct access to the Constitution and Bill of Rights they'd all be well-armed. As it is the media and powers that be have conditioned the Black leaders to placate those that respect Authority over Truth (the majority of mankind it seems) and thus we have anti-gunners leading the Black churches and many of the so-called Community Leaders such that the educated amongst us tend to dismiss the need for hardcore self-defense despite the ugly history, the current gang/drug/crime issues and our current precarious economic/political condition. On the other hand I know of numerous Black New Orleans residents who used their AKMs and AR-15s to defend their neighborhoods and these same carbines were used to maintain order at the N.O. Convention Center if their words are to be believed. So there ARE some Black Rifles in the Black Community but there is a great distrust of gov't, in particular - and by default, unfortunately, with White America, in general, in the Black Community that White America may or may not be aware of. So I am not at all surprised (but still disappointed) that there is not a 15% Black enrollment in courses around the nation. Perhaps that will change soon but I highly doubt it.
I think that right there is a problem that transcends race to smear our hobby and community pretty badly. I get that a lot as a young white person in the medical profession. Everyone thinks that the only reason I would want a gun that doesn't look like a duck or deer gun is to kill someone with. It is frustrating.
VooDoo6Actual
04-12-09, 22:21
Yes, many in fact.
I ONLY judge a man by the content of his character.
How did a persons politics get dragged into this thread? The OP asked, "Do you know any black gun owners?" This is not a dig on the last poster here, but based on the totality of posts to this thread in which ones political ideology is brought into this when race was the only question.
Well...
Okay, the topic was about "Black Gun Owners"
A majority of blacks voted for a man who HATES guns in citizens hands.
I see a direct connection to this. It would be quite a paradox for a black man to vote Obama, and then go out and be an avid shooter.
If you want a yes/no/sans discussion type answer:
The number of blacks who own guns that I know compared to those that do not, is proportionately less than that of the number of asians/whites/hispanics that I know who have made their ownership/lack thereof clear.
I ONLY judge a man by the content of his character.
While honorable, this statement is totally irrelevant to the discussion.
Yes, many in fact.
I ONLY judge a man by the content of his character.
If ony the rest of America did as well.
madisonsfinest
04-12-09, 22:36
I doubt a majority of blacks that voted for Obama did so because of his stance on gun rights....and for many people gun rights in and of themselves are not the only issue to consider when voting for/or against a person. I don't want to get off topic here so this will be my last unrelated post on this thread ;)
you and me both bro :D
i saw an old buddy from high school at the range a couple weeks ago, i had no idea in high school that he was a gun owner, or had any interest in them. im not sure what his political views are, i know he sure didnt like bush, but then again, a lot of conservatives didnt. he was shooting an AK of some kind and a smith and wesson automatic of some sort. hes a good guy, funny as hell.
aside from him, my neighbor is a federal LEO, im not sure what his views are or if hes interested in guns at all.
i always see a couple black folk in the gun shop/range when i go up there to shoot.
as far as the way people dress, idc. theres a lot of styles out there, variety is the spice of life, idc what people wear, what ever floats your boat. i wont judge a book by its cover. ill wait till someone starts talkin. if you wanna wear your pants down past your ass with a t shirt thats more like a night gown and a 1000 dollar chain, alright...
i do wish i saw a more diverse group of people at the range though, its nice to see folks or different race/religion/backgrounds brought together with a common interest, being able to look past each others race/religion etc.
beliefs are beliefs weather your a christian, jew, muslim, balck, white, chinese, or canadian.
im an equal opertunity hater. stupidity is stupidity, no matter what color you are. all the ignorant white trash i see walkin around spoutin their crap at the clubs and range etc. bothers me just as much as all the wanna be drug dealin gangstas.
lol, im racist against stupid people!:D, "wanna be drug dealin gangstas! lol! i love it! all to often i see these folks, what a joke. Ima have to say im an equal oppurtunity hater as well, i just hate the trash of any race not any race in particular. However, I think it was on 60 minutes, that it was said that its not racism if the facts tell it. In other words, in a big city area, pointing out that blacks are VERY prone to commit crimes isnt racist if 70% of the pop. is black, and 68% of crime is commited by blacks:rolleyes: Ill have to get a transcript of that 60 minutes and post it here, if i dont get back to it hollar at me, its very interesting and sums up what i lack words to do so.
[/I][/B]"I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except numbers. The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things like the United Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or Miss White America; and see what happens... Jesse Jackson will be knocking down your door.
I believe they are called the Boy Scouts for a reason that is why there are no girls allowed. Girls belong in the Girl Scouts! ARE YOU LISTENING MARTHA BURKE?
I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it is not a phobia, it is an opinion.
When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70% of the population is black, that is not racial profiling, it is the Law of Probability.
I believe that if you are selling me a milkshake, a pack of cigarettes, a newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of fact, if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak English!
My father and grandfather didn't die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come over and disrespect ours. I think the police should have every right to shoot your sorry ass if you threaten them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word "freeze" or "stop" in English, see the above lines.
I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you are qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans or tax breaks, etc., so you can open a hotel, coffee shop, trinket store, or any other business.
We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and risk our lives in wars to defend their freedoms, so that decades later they could come over here and tell us our constitution is a living document; and open to their interpretations.
I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor.
I know pro wrestling is fake, but so are movies and television. That doesn't stop you from watching them.
I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next operating system that's better, and put your name on the building.
It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does take a parent to stand up to the kid; and smack their little behinds when necessary, and say "NO!"
I think tattoos and piercing are fine if you want them, but please don't pretend they are a political statement. And, please, stay home until that new lip ring heals. I don't want to look at your ugly infected mouth as you serve me French fries!
I am sick of "Political Correctness." I know a lot of black people, and not a single one of them was born in Africa; so how can they be "African-Americans"? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around saying I am a European-American because my great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather was from Europe. I am proud to be from America and nowhere else."
This is it, i actually got it in an email and i cant access my mail from school:mad: so i searched the web, and this is what was in the email i couldnt acess
Robb Jensen
04-13-09, 08:11
Yes I know several. I also know gun owners of other races which include native American, hispanic, asian etc.
How did a persons politics get dragged into this thread? The OP asked, "Do you know any black gun owners?" This is not a dig on the last poster here, but based on the totality of posts to this thread in which ones political ideology is brought into this when race was the only question.
Unfortunately, with over 90% of the black vote buying into the Politics of Pity (the Democratic Party's modern version of slavery since the time of the Civil Rights movement in the '60s), people often (unfairly) generalize blacks as being liberal and, therefore, categorically anti-gun.
Unfortunately, with over 90% of the black vote buying into the Politics of Pity
Please list your sources for these numbers.
Mace
Please list your sources for these numbers.
Mace
Employ your Google Fu, Jedi Master.
Here is one source (http://www.imdiversity.com/Villages/hispanic/dialogue_opinion_letters/nam_debunking_0109.asp) documenting the existence of a voting block. End of the 4th paragraph: "The more than 15 million black voters made up more than 20 percent of the overall Democratic vote in 2008. They gave Obama 96 percent of their vote. This was an all-time percentage high for a Democratic presidential candidate."
Here is another one (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15297.html). From the 4th paragraph: "Fully 96 percent of black voters supported Obama and constituted 13 percent of the electorate, a 2-percentage-point rise in their national turnout. As in past years, black women turned out at a higher rate than black men."
Yet another (http://voices.kansascity.com/node/2710).
Furthermore, see the post by COJAM on the third page of this thread, implying a 92% black vote for Obama.
Do not know personally, but when the wife and I went to get our CCW well over 1/2 the class was black (75+ students).
Employ your Google Fu, Jedi Master.
Here is one source (http://www.imdiversity.com/Villages/hispanic/dialogue_opinion_letters/nam_debunking_0109.asp) documenting the existence of a voting block. End of the 4th paragraph: "The more than 15 million black voters made up more than 20 percent of the overall Democratic vote in 2008. They gave Obama 96 percent of their vote. This was an all-time percentage high for a Democratic presidential candidate."
Here is another one (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15297.html). From the 4th paragraph: "Fully 96 percent of black voters supported Obama and constituted 13 percent of the electorate, a 2-percentage-point rise in their national turnout. As in past years, black women turned out at a higher rate than black men."
Yet another (http://voices.kansascity.com/node/2710).
Furthermore, see the post by COJAM on the third page of this thread, implying a 92% black vote for Obama.
Ah, but WHY did they vote for him? The "devil is in the details", my friend. You can bet it wasn't because of his position on firearms that the public is wholly ignorant about. Perhaps they were tired of the warfare, war rhetoric and failed economic promises. Now things MAY not change for the better at all but perhaps they have some hope with someone new. BTW, that's what I hear from WHITE voters - both "liberal" and "conservative" who voted for Obama.
There's much more to it than simple statistics. But you already knew that. ;)
Littlelebowski
04-13-09, 12:18
Can we keep this on topic? I know plenty of every race that voted for Obama.
Littlelebowski
04-13-09, 12:20
I`m black and I own several guns(25+),and I did not vote for Baka Odumbo. I`m originally from Chicago and I know how bad democrats can foul things up. I served 4 years in the Marine Corps and now I live in the Northern V.A. area. I`m a hardcore republican and a L.E.O, and most of my friends feel the same way I do. So yes there are a few of us out here who didn`t drink the kool aid. I`m so far to the right on most issues that I`ve been accused of being white,which has caused me to wonder if I was adopted.
Want to go shooting sometime? I'm in Fairfax and I was in the Corps too.
Ah, but WHY did they vote for him?
I don't know, and I don't care. If you look back at my post that Mace Windu questioned, I was only trying to answer someone's question of why politics are discussed in conversations about gun ownership, and point out the existence of a voting block (not the reasoning for it).
If someone believes that the vast, overwhelming majority of black Americans voted for Obama because of his gun control stance, he's probably too stupid and cut off from reality to be trusted with a gun himself.
If someone believes that the vast, overwhelming majority of black Americans voted for Obama because of his gun control stance, he's probably too stupid and cut off from reality to be trusted with a gun himself.
Yup.
Also, Blacks make up 13% of the population, if you think they put him in office = :rolleyes:
point out the existence of a voting block (not the reasoning for it).
Now, think about the #'s slick...who put the dude in office?! :p
Mace
Unfortunately, with over 90% of the black vote buying into the Politics of Pity (the Democratic Party's modern version of slavery since the time of the Civil Rights movement in the '60s), people often (unfairly) generalize blacks as being liberal and, therefore, categorically anti-gun.
Would someone please point out to me where anyone in this thread, including me, suggested that the overwhelming majority of black Americans voted for Obama because of his gun control stance? Note my use of the words "unfairly generalize" and "categorically anti-gun." I know it to be unfair because my black friends are gun owners and shooters.
And where in my posts have I ever suggested that blacks were the ones who put Obama in office?
Well, I'm doing my part to get more Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Asians and anything else with binocular vision and opposable thumbs soundly into our "Shooters" camp. I think I need to take out my 10/22 next time we have a large family/social gathering. Compretition amongst the participation may ease their "nervousness" and hopefully will encourage them to seek further exposure.
Now I KNOW I should have picked up that Anschutz last year. I wasn't thinking about this topic when I saw it... Merde!
People, knock off the Obama stuff.
Back on target please.
From my experiences, I've got to say that there are a disproportionate number of gun owners that are racist (against blacks). I've actually got some pretty good stories . . . so I can understand why some blacks are gun shy (pun intended).
If you are trying to get more blacks into shooting, you should make an effort to be nice to black shooters whenever you run into them. Just saying hi at the range and asking if they want to try your gun, etc. would probably go a long way. Maybe offer to take a black co-worker out shooting.
I'd like to see more blacks and everyone else get involved in shooting. But, I honestly don't care what color someone is so I don't make a special effort to be nice to them or anyone else. I guess I'm just an a--hole!
Joe Mamma
If you are trying to get more blacks into shooting, you should make an effort to be nice to black shooters whenever you run into them. Just saying hi at the range and asking if they want to try your gun, etc. would probably go a long way. Maybe offer to take a black co-worker out shooting.
I was down in Arizona at a PR class in Casa Grande in March. On the last day of class, after class had ended, I met my brother at the public range next door to the police range where the class had been at to try out his latest build I was helping him with
A bunch of black folk showed up and set up at the end of the range and were shooting a 22 of some sort. The range has a covered firing line and the 223/556 makes a big blast when shot under the roof so my brother moved down the line away from the black folk when they showed up. Not because they were black but because he was kind of close to where they were and his muzzle blast under the roof was really loud.
I (and he) made a point of going over to chat with these black folks and see what sort of guns they were shooting, chat for a few, etc. Our biggest concern was we did not want to have them think my brother moved away due to race. They were nice folks and the older gentleman with them had picked up an older used 22 of some sort and they were shooting lemons and targets on a box. They showed me the gun and we chatted for a few minutes before we left to go home. They did not look like your typical shooters and the way they talked about the gun and stuff made me think they were just casual shooters who did not get out much.
QuietShootr
04-13-09, 16:41
I`m so far to the right on most issues that I`ve been accused of being white,which has caused me to wonder if I was adopted.
The Coke...it burns...!
LMAO!
From my experiences, I've got to say that there are a disproportionate number of gun owners that are racist (against blacks). I've actually got some pretty good stories . . . so I can understand why some blacks are gun shy (pun intended).
If you are trying to get more blacks into shooting, you should make an effort to be nice to black shooters whenever you run into them. Just saying hi at the range and asking if they want to try your gun, etc. would probably go a long way. Maybe offer to take a black co-worker out shooting.
I'd like to see more blacks and everyone else get involved in shooting. But, I honestly don't care what color someone is so I don't make a special effort to be nice to them or anyone else. I guess I'm just an a--hole!
Joe Mamma
BINGO...now, I didn't want to post this as it would be seen as the "victim mentality". I don't know the poster personally, but he hit the proverbial nail on the HEAD.
I am FAR from a victim, but he makes some good points. I have a few tales of my own, but that is a different topic for a different thread...
Mace
My best friend (and roommate) is black. He's been an LEO for nearly 20 years, including being the field commander of the county SWAT team here. He owns more firearms, and cans for them, than I ever probably will. Fortunately I get to use them when we go shooting, which is almost every week. :cool:
I can't think of anyone in his immediate family (parents, brothers etc) that doesn't own firearms. ETA: They're all fairly conservative politicaly as well.
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that most white shooters are racist (I'd like to give us the benefit of the doubt), but there are a lot of white folks who shoot who are. It really makes me quite angry.
BINGO...now, I didn't want to post this as it would be seen as the "victim mentality". I don't know the poster personally, but he hit the proverbial nail on the HEAD.
I am FAR from a victim, but he makes some good points. I have a few tales of my own, but that is a different topic for a different thread...
Mace
Haha! I'm glad BOTH of you posted what you did. I, too, have many stories that I could share. I didn't want to just throw that out there and muddy the waters and ruin the thread (which is great, btw). There are some nationally recognized instructors who are bigots. They instruct well and are generally well thought of but... none of us are perfect. I've run into all manner of insidious behavior but usually outshooting them kinda makes them at least ignore me which is unfortunate but I found this society with it's ills & and try not to contribute any more vitriol to it so I don't dwell on it.
The more we become ONE as a Society the less leverage the bastards who'd like to bring this nation down has. And it's always a good thing to peaceably outwit and defeat the Elite. :cool:
I've met some black guys at the range. I let one guy shoot my 10mm. Gun guys are gun guys it doesn't matter what color they are.
The black guys I knew in Baltimore that carried guns were not "gun guys." They were guys who wanted to survive.
it figures that both of my computers would crash right when this thread got started. Go figure.
Other than myself and my cousin (a Fudd) I don't know any. At least not beyond what they use as LEOs. I hate to admit it but I was on the anti-gun side until I woke-up and did a little research (I'm so ashamed). Nice to see I'm not the only minority on this board. Here are some black gun owner, and conservative web sites:
www.blackmanwithagun.com
www.urbanshooter.com
http://moveonup.ning.com/
www.conservativebrotherhood.org
www.blackgunowners.org
http://www.nbra.info/index.cfm
I havn't been to all of them, but there are many more.
I very much enjoyed this open discussion and I'm glad the moderators didn't lock it.
Oh come'on, your all just racist:D
If you are trying to get more blacks into shooting, you should make an effort to be nice to black shooters whenever you run into them. Just saying hi at the range and asking if they want to try your gun, etc. would probably go a long way. Maybe offer to take a black co-worker out shooting.
For my situation, when I took my first two day training course back in the mid-2000's, a local dude mentored me and we became shooting and training buddies ever since. He's black and I'm a "white" dude.
He's also one of the guys who is constantly bringing in training classes to the Bay Area, so he's definitely the minority (pun) when it comes to shooting and training.
Alot of you guys have brought up some good points about how to get other blacks into shooting,I for one agree with 98% of it. We need to show that it`s not just a bunch of redneck bubbas on the range just blasting away ot any and everything.(Been accused of being a redneck most of my adult life hope I didn`t offend anybody.) Someone mentioned about offering to let a fellow shooter try their gun, I can`t tell you how many times that has happened to me. Guns and gun ownership has been stigmatized and portrayed as a whites only past time, the only time most blacks see a gun is either is one the news being demonized or in a rap video. We need to get the word out that gun ownership/gun safety is good.
Alot of you guys have brought up some good points about how to get other blacks into shooting,I for one agree with 98% of it. We need to show that it`s not just a bunch of redneck bubbas on the range just blasting away ot any and everything.(Been accused of being a redneck most of my adult life hope I didn`t offend anybody.) Someone mentioned about offering to let a fellow shooter try their gun, I can`t tell you how many times that has happened to me. Guns and gun ownership has been stigmatized and portrayed as a whites only past time, the only time most blacks see a gun is either is one the news being demonized or in a rap video. We need to get the word out that gun ownership/gun safety is good.
No doubt! I too have been catagorized as a redneck for as long as i can remeber, being also i live in Kentucky theres a strong stereo type image as well. But you know, the percentage of the shooters that are just racist white trash is hardly measurable, yet thats the side that gets the most attention. I aint racist against race, unless stupid is a race now:D
I've met some black guys at the range. I let one guy shoot my 10mm. Gun guys are gun guys it doesn't matter what color they are.
The black guys I knew in Baltimore that carried guns were not "gun guys." They were guys who wanted to survive.
I think you hit the nail on the head, Sudden. Many aren't "gun guys" or "shooters"; they have them for self-defense and that's it.
For all you White rednecks out there. Give me a hug. I'm a Black redneck! At least that's what several of my Black and White friends call me. It's all good. :cool:
it figures that both of my computers would crash right when this thread got started. Go figure.
Other than myself and my cousin (a Fudd) I don't know any. At least not beyond what they use as LEOs. I hate to admit it but I was on the anti-gun side until I woke-up and did a little research (I'm so ashamed). Nice to see I'm not the only minority on this board. Here are some black gun owner, and conservative web sites:
www.blackmanwithagun.com
www.urbanshooter.com
http://moveonup.ning.com/
www.conservativebrotherhood.org
www.blackgunowners.org
http://www.nbra.info/index.cfm
I havn't been to all of them, but there are many more.
I very much enjoyed this open discussion and I'm glad the moderators didn't lock it.
Mind sharing your story?
I don't mind sharing at all. I was a typical uninformed 'sheeple' that thought that 2A was there because folks needed to hunt, and fight off indians, etc. back in the day. I supported the original AWB. You can't hunt with them, so why have them?. At least that's what the grabbers want you to believe. I remember telling a friend back in '93, 'You don't need those AK47s'. To me, and unfortunately, many other people, anyone who owned such a thing was the typical ultra right radical survivalist that was a heartbeat from killing us all. Like I said I was a sheeple. Then, through being a LEO, (I was much the rookie in'93) I met a few people who were very, very good people, who happened to be gun owners. They were nothing like the stereotype. My political views have always had a conservative lean, except my former opinion on guns. My opinion on guns was changed several years ago by my association with these good people. I had often thought of buying an AR since then, but never got around to it. Late summer 2008 I decided that I would take the AR plunge, but had to do some research first. I went to the NRA, and Brady web sites, and started comparing facts side by side. I also read up on 2A, the federalist papers, etc. Everyone on either side of a particular issue tends to distort the facts in their favor, however, the antis take this to a whole new level. They are a million times more guilty of this than us pro-gun folks. They not only distort, they flat out lie. I don't take kindly to being lied to. A a minority I will occasionally surf the hate group sites to see what they are up to. (it is wise to keep an eye on people who would do you harm) It was then that I noticed a similar tone to the antis web sites. Not racially, but they see us as uneducated, less than, beneath them, etc. The pro-gun sites talk down about the antis as well but it is not nearly to the same degree. The antis, are convinced that they are superior. So, after finding out that the antis were full of crap I bought my first AR in October. My second in February, and looking for a third. One for me and each of my boys. As a LEO I am still occasionally torn on what to do about gun violence, but I don't see how more gun laws will change it. A while back I thought it might be a good idea to put the AKs/ARs under NFA, but that won't do anything. So, now I am a pro-gun AR owning noob, looking to learn. As a minority I can't ignore the racial historical significance of Obama, especially given the racial turmoil that this country has been, and occasionally still goes through. However, I strongly disagree with his policies, and did not vote for him. Hope this answers your questions. Sorry for the lengthy post. :)
You won't find too many blacks into the tactical side of things. All the black gun owners I know just pretty much see them as tools for SD and don't really see them as a hobby or the sporting aspect of it. If it wasn't for a HS friend and my JROTC and ROTC experiences in college I would have probably ended up the same way.
My gun ownership along with going to college and getting a decent paying job and having to pay taxes out the ass turned my views from liberal to conservative. I vote republican or libetarian most of the time and didn't vote for BHO. I'm quite the opposite of most people here. I really didn't socialize with white people until I went to college. I went to all black schools, grew up in an all black neighborhood, and probably would have went to an HBCU if it weren't for my ROTC scholarship, which opened up many doors for me.
You won't see many of us at the range or a F-class, 3 gun, benchrest, tactical class for many reasons. For me right now I'm getting in registered benchrest shooting because I found a group of black BR shooters that were really into it. I didn't hook up with these guys because they were black it just happened to be that they were the friendliest and most welcoming. I went to a local range with my AR50 and some NFA items and had to talk to the police for an hour explaning why I had those types of weapons. No big deal, but I found it rather interesting that I was singled out as having "suspected" stolen weapons. I had copies of all my paperwork including my receipt for the AR50. I like it when I see anyone getting into firearms and shooting, but I especially love it when I see another black person get into it because there are so few of us. It started out as just getting into guns and but it ultimately changed my whole political ideology.
Littlelebowski
04-15-09, 06:36
Really great posts guys, keep'em coming!
I went to a local range with my AR50 and some NFA items and had to talk to the police for an hour explaning why I had those types of weapons. No big deal, but I found it rather interesting that I was singled out as having "suspected" stolen weapons.
Shit like that just makes my blood boil....
Shit like that just makes my blood boil....
Unfortunately its a stereo type that people such as the Rappers have made for the rest of the Black race. And it gets my blood boiling when i see rap videos portraying drugs and "ho's" and cars with big rims, language id never want to expose my children to, etc. because i know its creating a stereo type of the black race that ruins the image for the ones who arent like that, the ones that work, wear the clothes at a presentable level. Just the same as when i see CNN interview somebody in KY and they pick the most hillbilly no teethed guy in all the hills to talk to! Course theres not much you can expect from Comunist News Network
Shit like that just makes my blood boil....
I wasn't even mad over it and I still go to that same range. It did give me an opportunity to explain the whole NFA process if they ever came across it again. I gave both officers my business cards and ended up doing a few FFL transfers for one of them. In the end I made a few extra bucks from the whole experience. :D
Unfortunately its a stereo type that people such as the Rappers have made for the rest of the Black race. And it gets my blood boiling when i see rap videos portraying drugs and "ho's" and cars with big rims, language id never want to expose my children to, etc. because i know its creating a stereo type of the black race that ruins the image for the ones who arent like that, the ones that work, wear the clothes at a presentable level. Just the same as when i see CNN interview somebody in KY and they pick the most hillbilly no teethed guy in all the hills to talk to! Course theres not much you can expect from Comunist News Network
But the rappers did not create that image. SOME people still cling to age-old stereotypes - just like bigotry exists in the Black community but isn't widely discussed. The "Hip Hop"/Rap culture HAS done far more harm than good despite what the Cultural Degenerates would like to portray. Kinda like what Heavy Metal has done to Caucasian culture. Music says a lot about those who create and "enjoy" it...
I, too, recall the odd looks, stand-offishness and somewhat insulting questions when going into some gun ranges and gun stores. It usually disappears if they ever take the time to DISCUSS anything, though. As far as I'm concerned everyone is an ambassador for his (A) Family, (B) Culture, (C) Race and (D) Nation. And I give everyone the initial benefit of the doubt.
I do know one thing: those who initially looked upon me derisively and overcame it are family to me now. I hope the rest can one day have it the same way.
Unfortunately, WE'VE ALLOWED OURSELVES TO BE DIVIDED BY RACE. Note the word "ALLOWED". Those who benefit in our separation have worked long and hard at it.
A great book, guys, is HIDDEN HEROISM by Robert B. Edgerton. It discusses the (short) history of Black soidiers in America's wars and where the idea of "natural cowards" with respect to Blacks come from. It dispels the myth with many accounts of bravery in battle as well as the allegations of cowardice. Why do I find this book important and germane to this discussion? Because as you go through the book it's BLATANTLY obvious that policy was being manipulated to bring us (Blacks & Whites) to the point of open conflict. Only an insidious group of persons Hell bent on bringing this nation to its knees would do such a thing. The everyday, Middle-Class White guy did NOT make policy and they, like the majority of the world's population today were more "men of their culture." Once this is realized their should be no anger towards either group. We're ONE nation and if we ever have to use these tools for real, we'll need one another. Yes, prejudice exists but it's been passed down and I can say it's dissipating. "My" people are persons quite like the persons who would hang out here & I'd not hesitate to assist any Fellow American.
Let's pray it never comes to that.
GREAT thread!
psdiver102
04-15-09, 16:39
Yes, apperantly its very popular with the black guys at work. Didnt know it until i wore a spikes tactical shirt to work. 1 guy has 13 AK's and 4 AR's.
Here are some black gun owner, and conservative web sites:
www.blackmanwithagun.com
www.urbanshooter.com
http://moveonup.ning.com/
www.conservativebrotherhood.org
www.blackgunowners.org
http://www.nbra.info/index.cfm
The urbanshooter site didn't seem to work for me, but I went to blackmanwithagun and purchased a copy of Blanchard's book for a black co-worker who I recently took shooting for the first time. He enjoyed it very much, but he still sees it as a "white" thing. He grew up in Baltimore, so the only people he saw with a gun were cops and people who didn't legally own them. I hope maybe the book will help him out a little. He's an Obama supporter as well, but I've been hitting him pretty hard with facts lately, and at minimum, he says he's never believed in the Dems gun ban agenda. I have finally gotten him over the "At least he's not Bush" and the "its all George Bush's fault" arguments at least. He may see the light sometime soon. :)
OldNavyGuy
04-16-09, 08:14
Do you know any black gun owners?
yes.., in fact i own several black guns, two pistols and two rifles..., looking for another black rifle....., do they make them in the latest crave.., pistons ?? :D :D
yes.., in fact i own several black guns, two pistols and two rifles..., looking for another black rifle....., do they make them in the latest crave.., pistons ?? :D :D
Um, I think we got past that joke somewhere around page 2. :rolleyes:
But the rappers did not create that image. SOME people still cling to age-old stereotypes - just like bigotry exists in the Black community but isn't widely discussed. The "Hip Hop"/Rap culture HAS done far more harm than good despite what the Cultural Degenerates would like to portray. Kinda like what Heavy Metal has done to Caucasian culture. Music says a lot about those who create and "enjoy" it...
I, too, recall the odd looks, stand-offishness and somewhat insulting questions when going into some gun ranges and gun stores. It usually disappears if they ever take the time to DISCUSS anything, though. As far as I'm concerned everyone is an ambassador for his (A) Family, (B) Culture, (C) Race and (D) Nation. And I give everyone the initial benefit of the doubt.
I do know one thing: those who initially looked upon me derisively and overcame it are family to me now. I hope the rest can one day have it the same way.
Unfortunately, WE'VE ALLOWED OURSELVES TO BE DIVIDED BY RACE. Note the word "ALLOWED". Those who benefit in our separation have worked long and hard at it.
A great book, guys, is HIDDEN HEROISM by Robert B. Edgerton. It discusses the (short) history of Black soidiers in America's wars and where the idea of "natural cowards" with respect to Blacks come from. It dispels the myth with many accounts of bravery in battle as well as the allegations of cowardice. Why do I find this book important and germane to this discussion? Because as you go through the book it's BLATANTLY obvious that policy was being manipulated to bring us (Blacks & Whites) to the point of open conflict. Only an insidious group of persons Hell bent on bringing this nation to its knees would do such a thing. The everyday, Middle-Class White guy did NOT make policy and they, like the majority of the world's population today were more "men of their culture." Once this is realized their should be no anger towards either group. We're ONE nation and if we ever have to use these tools for real, we'll need one another. Yes, prejudice exists but it's been passed down and I can say it's dissipating. "My" people are persons quite like the persons who would hang out here & I'd not hesitate to assist any Fellow American.
Let's pray it never comes to that.
GREAT thread!
The rappers may have not made that image, but they sure as hell portray it over and over again. All the while dragging the younger generation along and unfortunately theyre attracted to it. You know, i dont really know what kinda raising some of these kids get, but id bet not a whole lot if any thats worth mentioning, and i think thats were it all starts. If the kids were raised with some decency, generally they wont wander to that kinda media. And what makes me sick is that these rappers and "wanna be drug dealing ganstas" are gonna have kids who end up stereo typed and acumulate the masses that we saw elect BHO. Keep in mind, if your black and reading this, i mean nothing i say in a racist way, im defending the decent black folk. It makes me uber mad when i see the hard working decent people of any race get stereotyped because of a group, and its facts that the lazy's, rappers and criminals among that race have done a bang up job at getting that stereo type across. And i to would assist any American no matter what race. And I too give those i meet the benefit of the doubt, but when you dishonor your self/familyrace and nation it doesnt set well with me. I was brought up in a small town, so everybody knew everybody, and i always was tought not to do anything shamful cause it reflected on my father and grandfather. I think thats most the problem with these kids today, parenting and respect, these guys/kids aint got none. Ill try an find a transcript or maybe audio if i can of Bill Cosby explaining how embarrising todays black youth is, and he recolects on times during the black oppresion and racism when he was young and how these blacks now dont know how good they got it, basically just putting them in their place. And its so releiving in a way to hear a Black person say it cause you know he cant be called a racist against his own race
here's a link, but if you scroll all the way down a bit, theres a pic of BHO and his kids :mad: Any way i still agree with what Cosby said, even if Hussein is on his public relations page...........
- http://www.eightcitiesmap.com/transcript_bc.htm
Heavy Metal
04-16-09, 19:48
Hip Hop"/Rap culture HAS done far more harm than good despite what the Cultural Degenerates would like to portray. Kinda like what Heavy Metal has done to Caucasian culture. Music says a lot about those who create and "enjoy" it...
Comparing Rap to Heavy Metal? You are full of it.
Comparing Rap to Heavy Metal? You are full of it.
To each his own poison I guess. I don't like the messages portrayed in Heavy Metal any more than I do Rap. Neither bring anything positive to the table.
Heavy Metal
04-16-09, 23:01
What messeages do you disagree with in Metal?
I have yet to see it spawn a criminal underclass.
It is one thing to proclaim equivilence, it is another to bring corroborating data to back your assertion.
"spawn a criminal underclass"?:confused:
Because it's the music of choice for a certain criminal element?
andre3k, I'm glad you were able to turn the situation to your benefit.
If you want to listen to a group that follows its own path try 'RUSH'....the thinking man's rock band!!!! The lead singer does not have the greatest voice, but the drummer's skill can't be beat.
guys i know theres a BIG difference in Heavy Metal than Rap, But it seems to me that theres a lot of definitions of "Heavy Metal" Theres positive, theres the drug crime related, then theres ozzy:D But with rap, i dont listen to it hardly at all mind you, that i have yet to hear one rap song that doesnt talk about hos and money, turning a crack rock into a moutain:confused: humungo rims on my caddy, doing drugs, im assuming cush is weed, Shootin you up on there block and a plethora of other criminal acts so to speak. And i think thats what "Heavy Metal" (the user here on m4c) meant when he said, to see it spawn a criminal underclass. Because all rap is anymore is filth about crimes, or treating women like shit, shooting sombody for "Hating on them" etc, and i didnt even know you could "hate" ON somebody:confused:
EDIT- Not imploring that having big rims on a caddy is a crime:D
This has been a great thread.
IMO , the growth in gun ownership among blacks , women and legal immigrants will be a huge factor in the continued success of the Second Amendment movement. It's all about winning and winning takes votes. The good news is that it seems to be happening already --in spite of the kind of stupidity that seems to infest TOS.
I've read that the whole origin of gun control was to keep arms out of the hands of slaves at the time. If this is true then its pretty senseless for any black person to be anti-gun IMO. :confused:
you got one here. current military but my father was the same, as was his father. All gun owners/shooters/2nd amendment supporters.
I've read that the whole origin of gun control was to keep arms out of the hands of slaves at the time. If this is true then its pretty senseless for any black person to be anti-gun IMO. :confused:
You are correct. Alot of the laws that we have now have racist origins, especially gun laws. Marijuana is another one, shoved down the throat of the country by southern democrats looking for a way to lock up Mexicans.
Nope. Not a single one.
Gump, looks like you need me to be your neighbor! :D
It seems like a lot of the black gunowners who have checked in here are either military, leo, or former leo or military. I wonder how true that is across the black gunowners (not to include those who buy them out of the back of a trunk for protection purposes).
And I wonder how true that is across the gunowner group as a whole, irrespective of race or ethnic background.
I certainly would not mind at all having black gunowner neighbors -- especially from this forum! I am always on the lookout for a few discrete neighbor types who are firearms friendly and familiar.
Chad
You are correct. Alot of the laws that we have now have racist origins, especially gun laws. Marijuana is another one, shoved down the throat of the country by southern democrats looking for a way to lock up Mexicans.
What? Gun laws you are right. But marijuana, where'd that come from? I heard it a different way.
Littlelebowski
04-25-09, 22:37
I disagree. Rap hasn't "spawned a criminal underclass" and a lot of rap has nothing to do with criminals. However, some rap voices beliefs and practices of a criminal society, much as certain forms of other music has dones across the years. Rap is not evil so sayeth the blond haired, blue eyed white boy. Heavy metal is not evil. Things are not so black and white.
dookie1481
04-25-09, 23:20
I disagree. Rap hasn't "spawned a criminal underclass" and a lot of rap has nothing to do with criminals. However, some rap voices beliefs and practices of a criminal society, much as certain forms of other music has dones across the years. Rap is not evil so sayeth the blond haired, blue eyed white boy. Heavy metal is not evil. Things are not so black and white.
I agree, a lot of rappers try to glamorize that lifestyle because it sells records.
Jay
"I'm not discussed in glowing terms by many as my hardcore Constitution-based philosophy does not fly with them - nor with the majority of Whites, either, if we look at the last five elections..."
Boy, do I know where you're coming from with that statement. Good thing I have a thick skin. I'm affectionately (or maybe not so) called "off-white" every now and then. Just as another poster stated, I am also to the right of Atilla the Hun.
I also find myself giving history lessons to my brethren,whether it be which
party "actually" got the 1964 civil rights bill passed,or which party fought against
the KKK "back in the day".;)
+1
This pretty much resembles me also as I am an 2A ABSOLUTIST and a CONSERVATIVE black man. The guy's at my job just love me:p;):rolleyes: but I am opening some eyes and ears.
My only other conservative black co-worker took another job so i'm alone on that front.:eek::cool:
It does amaze me how some black's can claim to be pro 2A and still be quite liberal and willingly vote away rights that where so hard won and violently so most often.:(
The last part of the above quote is an eye opener for most of my circle when I use it against them in 'political' arguements...err err...discussions.:cool:;)
What? Gun laws you are right. But marijuana, where'd that come from? I heard it a different way.
The cliff notes version is basically this:
In the early 1900's Mexico had a civil war (remember Pancho Villa?). Well as a result alot of Mexicans left the country to look for work in the US, namely in CA and TX on large 'corporate' farms. This led to bad feelings between them and the locals on smaller farms. When the great depression hit, a bad situation turned worse. Most of those Mexicans smoked weed. Keep in mind there was nothing illegal about it then; even the Mormons hit the bong.
Well, the American farm workers wanted a way to get rid of the Mexicans, and seized upon marijuana use as a possible way. So, they all bitched to their congressmen, who at the time were all democrats. They in turn put the heat on Harry Anslinger, who was made the head of the newly created Federal Bureau of Narcotics to outlaw marijuana.
They had plenty of help from William Randolph Hearst, who published outrageous stories in his newspapers of 'black men on marijuana raping white women' and stories of how if you use marijuana you will go insane, become an axe murderer, etc. Lots of sensationalism and yellow journalism and people making shit up and outright lying.
End result: marijuana declared illegal.
As an aside, I think all gun owners should be familiar with the history of the illegalization of marijuana because there are many parallels between the methods used by the anti marijuana lobby and the anti gun lobby; namely sensationalist yellow journalism, lies, distortion of facts, manipulation of public opinion, etc.
Now it's mostly just...
"it'll turn you into a crack/smack addict!!!":rolleyes:
RogerinTPA
04-26-09, 15:22
This has been a great thread.
IMO , the growth in gun ownership among blacks , women and legal immigrants will be a huge factor in the continued success of the Second Amendment movement. It's all about winning and winning takes votes. The good news is that it seems to be happening already --in spite of the kind of stupidity that seems to infest TOS.
Now if we can just get everyone to get an NRA or similar pro gun org membership...
RogerinTPA
04-26-09, 15:33
It seems like a lot of the black gunowners who have checked in here are either military, leo, or former leo or military. I wonder how true that is across the black gunowners (not to include those who buy them out of the back of a trunk for protection purposes).
And I wonder how true that is across the gunowner group as a whole, irrespective of race or ethnic background.
I certainly would not mind at all having black gunowner neighbors -- especially from this forum! I am always on the lookout for a few discrete neighbor types who are firearms friendly and familiar.
Chad
I think a lot (regardless of race) depends on you upbringing. My father was ex military, hunter and gun enthusiast, but it was the five day a week shooting practice (Match grade .22's, and was a Varsity sport) for four years in high school ROTC, that really got me enthused about rifle marksmanship and competition. Like I said earlier, almost everyone in my neighborhood and relatives, owned a firearm, but almost no one talked about it or practiced on a regular, semi annual, or annual basis. Unless you count the annual celebratory"Shooting in the Air" fire fight in Detroit for New Years counts.:p
black
currently military (18 years)
owns 2 pistols
and working on my 2nd rifle
and they are all legal
Historical reenactors use and own guns:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJIeZ8668M _E
The link's not hot , remove the spaces to view.
The song is Bob Marley's "Buffalo Soldier". The screen goes solid black during the latter part of the song. People can fill in their own images to match phrases like : "...driving through San Juan in the arms of America..." , ".... driven/drivin' from the mainland to the heart of the Caribbean..." , or "....guardian to Jamaica , the Buffalo Soldier..." .
The song seemed to get a lot of air time in the middle 1980's.
I disagree. Rap hasn't "spawned a criminal underclass" and a lot of rap has nothing to do with criminals. However, some rap voices beliefs and practices of a criminal society, much as certain forms of other music has dones across the years. Rap is not evil so sayeth the blond haired, blue eyed white boy. Heavy metal is not evil. Things are not so black and white.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this. Your right in the fact that some rap has nothing to do with criminals but im hard pressed to find any. And i beileve that when the majority of the rap being played has to do with killing someone in the hood, drug dealin, smoking "Kush with the windows down" and treating women like their peices of trash and sex toys. That may not be what rap started as but it shure as hell is exactly what it is now. For example, my brother listens to a TON of music and ive heard him playing a song called 9 mm, in which the guy says, "because of the law i have to conceal it, and if you F?$k around you gonna make me reveal it" Keep in mind, i did some research and this guy doesnt need protection from any body like some one in east saint louis would. He lives in a multi million dollar mansion yet he talks about toting guns around because they think it makes em look gansta thug and tough. Which in term these young kids dont pick up that its just lyrics and end up buying a gun cause its cool and listen to the filth in rap about shooting you up if you look at em wrong and they end up doing just that. What about the countless rap that talks about dealin drugs, robbing stores and people, do you think these songs havnt had an extremely high influence on American youth in the last decade? Just think if rap had never come along (hypothetically), how many people wouldnt have the idea stuck that its cool to do and sell drugs, or how many that wouldnt condone shooting someone for being "on their turf". Thats my Opinion and observation only. I look at facts and the impact on society this has and ive drawn my conclusion. Although this topic is nothing i want to waste breath with an argument over i just wanted to throw my opinion (lengthy as it be) out there.
You're wrong about the majority of rap being about that crap, but only because you're going on what's popular and gets airplay, which incidentally is driven by sales, which incidentally is dominated by young white consumers. If the majority of rappers were banking on the black community to go platinum, they'd be broke. That's part of the reason why Eminem, who as far as I'm concerned is subpar at best, has more record sales that probably 90 percent of the rappers found on the shelves of your local music store, combined. If we're going to argue that rap somehow made drug use and sales "cool" then we should be prepared to say that Rock and Hollywood can make an equal if not significantly larger claim to doing the same. Blaming a rapper for a social ill of some sort is the equivalent of blaming Al Pacino's character in Scarface for the cocaine trade, or blaming the Godfather series and actors for the mafia's activities in New York. Art (whether we like it or not or even consider it art) only sells if there's a public out there willing to buy it. I don't see many rappers claiming their hood in Afghanistan or Colombia, or Somalia, and yet violence associated with the drug trades there continue to flourish.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this. Your right in the fact that some rap has nothing to do with criminals but im hard pressed to find any. And i beileve that when the majority of the rap being played has to do with killing someone in the hood, drug dealin, smoking "Kush with the windows down" and treating women like their peices of trash and sex toys. That may not be what rap started as but it shure as hell is exactly what it is now. For example, my brother listens to a TON of music and ive heard him playing a song called 9 mm, in which the guy says, "because of the law i have to conceal it, and if you F?$k around you gonna make me reveal it" Keep in mind, i did some research and this guy doesnt need protection from any body like some one in east saint louis would. He lives in a multi million dollar mansion yet he talks about toting guns around because they think it makes em look gansta thug and tough. Which in term these young kids dont pick up that its just lyrics and end up buying a gun cause its cool and listen to the filth in rap about shooting you up if you look at em wrong and they end up doing just that. What about the countless rap that talks about dealin drugs, robbing stores and people, do you think these songs havnt had an extremely high influence on American youth in the last decade? Just think if rap had never come along (hypothetically), how many people wouldnt have the idea stuck that its cool to do and sell drugs, or how many that wouldnt condone shooting someone for being "on their turf". Thats my Opinion and observation only. I look at facts and the impact on society this has and ive drawn my conclusion. Although this topic is nothing i want to waste breath with an argument over i just wanted to throw my opinion (lengthy as it be) out there.
Geeze, I own all kinds of black guns.
Personally, no. I do know of a few online, and Ive seen a few at the ranges in N FLa
EVen when I was doing Security Contracting I didnt know any either :confused:
I know several. All are military bretheren.
One of my best friends has surpased me in his passion for guns by taking the step to NFA weapons and supressors that I'm not ready to invest in yet until I'm done moving around with the Navy so much.
Sad thing about it though is he gets a lot of crap at ranges around here, because they see a black man with a silencer or a SBR and automatically go into profile mode.
He likes going to the range with me because when we're seen together it seems like having a white guy there lifts some veil of suspicion. I like going to the range with him because he's a close friend I could bet my life on, and he has cool toys. I'm missing range trips with him right now because he's currently deployed to Afghanistan doing his job. I'm awaiting my next submarine orders while I recover from back surgery.
We have come a long way, but there are still some barriers out there.
DangerMouse
04-30-09, 12:50
- A co-worker (black) and her husband (white) are Gun Owners. Although she happens to be very Liberal in her political views.
Well there's an oxymoron... a very liberal gun owner... just hunting guns or do they own people stoppers?
I'm sure I'll get castrated with a spoon asking anything remotely "race related" but I was wondering, do any of you know any black gun owners?
I find it rather discouraging that I know of only one. I have yet to encounter a black gun owner at a gun shop, gun show, range, etc. While I feel that it isn't about "who" the legal, responsible gun owners are but rather that there are more of them out there, I just wish they were a more visual, represented part of the community.
So, do you know of any black gun owners?
There are many that I know at work and play who are gun owners.
I stumbled on this on youtube while looking for a better Bob Marley vid. Looks like the info cut-off is post 2003.
www.youtube.com/watch/v=wBdw5TvmJf0&NR=1
This link will need some work. I can't get it to come up.
Here's some info to help find it:
Title: South Africa- Buffalo Soldiers
Time: 23.37
By: journeymanpictures
Tags include: South Africa , refugees , mercenaries.
Lots of different languages and dialects. No sub-titles or voice overs.
You're wrong about the majority of rap being about that crap, but only because you're going on what's popular and gets airplay, which incidentally is driven by sales, which incidentally is dominated by young white consumers. If the majority of rappers were banking on the black community to go platinum, they'd be broke. That's part of the reason why Eminem, who as far as I'm concerned is subpar at best, has more record sales that probably 90 percent of the rappers found on the shelves of your local music store, combined. If we're going to argue that rap somehow made drug use and sales "cool" then we should be prepared to say that Rock and Hollywood can make an equal if not significantly larger claim to doing the same. Blaming a rapper for a social ill of some sort is the equivalent of blaming Al Pacino's character in Scarface for the cocaine trade, or blaming the Godfather series and actors for the mafia's activities in New York. Art (whether we like it or not or even consider it art) only sells if there's a public out there willing to buy it. I don't see many rappers claiming their hood in Afghanistan or Colombia, or Somalia, and yet violence associated with the drug trades there continue to flourish.
I agree with you100% on the superb points you've elucidated. But just like I said about Heavy Metal and Hard Rock, the message of the majority of Rap music is not positive.
Joe_Friday
04-30-09, 15:17
Sad thing about it though is he gets a lot of crap at ranges around here, because they see a black man with a silencer or a SBR and automatically go into profile mode.
That should have the opposite effect. Anyone willing to put the time, money and effort into owning NFA items would hardly be at the top of a list of evil doers. Hell, tell him to come to SOWEGA (South West GA). We love anybody with SBR's and cans. :D
There will always be those who profile and ultimately show their ignorance. What part of GA are you in?
I'm a "black gun" owner, and have one mixed too! (Coyote, Green, Sand sniper camo)
1SFG,
Young white consumers DO NOT purchase the majority of rap. That stat is soooo old. The majority of music today is downloaded. Is this a Rev. Sharpton talking point? The majority of music purchased by "white" people, as you put it, is country. The most numerous of music stations is country, the highest grossing tour acts are country, and the top selling albums are country. Sounds like you want to blame the societal ills plaguing the African American society on white people. I vehemently disagree and think the true facts and figures speak for themselves.
Oh yeah, Eminem probably hasn't sold a single record in YEARS. So to use him as an example is far fetched. I guess you convienantly "forgot" about the AA rappers that have sold millions(50 Cent, Lil' Wayne) since then. And, their lyrics really aren't positive, non-mysogenistic, or against violence, or, smoking weed.
Then, you go on to blame movies such as Scarface or Godfather. What about Belly, Boyz in tha' Hood, or Menace to Society? Shall I go on? Accept responsibility for your own actions and don't look to blame others. It's called personal responsibility.
:confused:
I'm having a hard time picking out anything relevant in that post...
BTW-Eminem hasnt put out a record in years(4+?).Albums he made going back ten years~ ago are still selling quite well though.I think he has a new one coming out as a matter of fact...likely to break records once again im sure.
I think the point made was that the statistics show that the majority of rap/hip hop music is being consumed by Whites not Blacks. He was not stating that the majority of Whites favor Rap over whatever it is they listen to. There is a world of difference between the two. Either way (and I don't really care), modern "music" isn't music at all...
That should have the opposite effect. Anyone willing to put the time, money and effort into owning NFA items would hardly be at the top of a list of evil doers. Hell, tell him to come to SOWEGA (South West GA). We love anybody with SBR's and cans. :D
There will always be those who profile and ultimately show their ignorance. What part of GA are you in?
I'm in Kingsland (Kings Bay). He and I were stationed at the clinic here. He lives in North Florida (Jacksonville). It's gun friendly and NFA friendly too. It just seems that for some reason If they were to see me waling around with a SBR and a can they assume I jumped through all the legal hoops. The range officers see him and they want to see paperwork because he must have that stuff illegaly. Once he's been to a range a few times and folks get to know him then all is good.
He's a mellow and generous guy, who loves to let folks play with his toys. He likes to convert as many folks into gun fans as he can.
Joe_Friday
05-01-09, 22:57
I'm in Kingsland (Kings Bay). He and I were stationed at the clinic here. He lives in North Florida (Jacksonville). It's gun friendly and NFA friendly too. It just seems that for some reason If they were to see me waling around with a SBR and a can they assume I jumped through all the legal hoops. The range officers see him and they want to see paperwork because he must have that stuff illegaly. Once he's been to a range a few times and folks get to know him then all is good.
He's a mellow and generous guy, who loves to let folks play with his toys. He likes to convert as many folks into gun fans as he can.
I see what you are saying now. Hey, at least your ranges allow SBRs and cans. We have one public range and that is a big no-go.
Not to hijack the thread but Kings Bay is awesome for its size. Although it has been about 16 years since I have been there (ROTC days). My cousin was a CDR that just retired from there this year. Was going to go to the ceremony but had to work. He is a lot older than me and I have not seen them in years though.
buckshot1220
05-01-09, 23:50
Didn't read every post here, but yes I know a few "black gun owners" as you put it. I see quite a few at the local range also along with other minorities. I think it's definitley a good thing when any law-abiding citizen exercises their rights regardless of race, creed, nationality etc.
dialM4murder
05-02-09, 00:00
I'm black and own several guns. In fact, there is a website for Black gun owners here: http://www.blackgunowners.org/
Anyone of course can join, but Blacks were/are the intended demographic for several reasons. Mainly, to rid the black community of the almost taboo idea of gun ownership.
example:
Also I have a neighbor that I met actually walking to the polls during the recent election. He voted for Obama, but I made conversation with him respectfully and we have since become occasional running partners. The other day I spoke with him about the 2nd, and it's meaning as well as some history about gun control, and how originally it was used to keep blacks from attaining guns. Needless to say he was all ears, and agrees with all of my points. I think I will take him shooting eventually so he can become another armed law abiding citizen!
Stop by sometime. :)
dialM4murder
05-02-09, 00:02
I'm sure I'll get castrated with a spoon asking anything remotely "race related" but I was wondering, do any of you know any black gun owners?
I find it rather discouraging that I know of only one. I have yet to encounter a black gun owner at a gun shop, gun show, range, etc. While I feel that it isn't about "who" the legal, responsible gun owners are but rather that there are more of them out there, I just wish they were a more visual, represented part of the community.
So, do you know of any black gun owners?
By the way, didn't you post this on the XD forum?
dialM4murder
05-02-09, 00:06
Not a single one.
C4
Not true! I sent you a bolt carrier to stake for me last year. :)
I'm black and own several guns. In fact, there is a website for Black gun owners here: http://www.blackgunowners.org/
Anyone of course can join, but Blacks were/are the intended demographic for several reasons. Mainly, to rid the black community of the almost taboo idea of gun ownership.
Stop by sometime.
I don't understand what the segregation accomplishes to be honest. But, I'm unfamiliar with this particular approach to this particular subject. Is it working?
dialM4murder
05-02-09, 00:17
I don't understand what the segregation accomplishes to be honest. But, I'm unfamiliar with this particular approach to this particular subject. Is it working?
Its not really segregation per say as again, anyone can join. This isn't a black version of stormfront.com. The site was started as a way for people of the community to get rid of some of the stereotypes and misnomers many blacks have surrounding firearms. To show that guns are not just tools of the trade for rappers and drug dealers etc.
Many Blacks lean far to the left, and swallow up their(the left) anti gun rhetoric by the spoon full.
Its not really segregation per say as again, anyone can join. This isn't a black version of stormfront.com. The site was started as a way for people of the community to get rid of some of the stereotypes and misnomers many blacks have surrounding firearms. To show that guns are not just tools of the trade for rappers and drug dealers etc.
Many Blacks lean far to the left, and swallow up their(the left) anti gun rhetoric by the spoon full.
Anyone can watch BET as well but it's definitely built for a particular racial demographic.
The agenda you say blackgunowners.com supports, I think M4c accomplishes the same. Would you agree?
I've just never understood the reason to segregate. Are black gun owners any different that white gun owners? Mexican gun owners different than Native American gun owners? Are issues relating to firearms different from one race to another? How do black gun owners on your forum use their firearms that is different than any other race?
Look, if you want to say, "I feel more comfortable hanging out with people like me" I'll completely understand. That's why I go to poker night and not Tupperware parties. However, classifying this desire as some sort of social project that presents itself as better equipped to handle a situation because of their skin's hue...... Like I said.. .I don't get it.
To paraphrase Morgan Freeman (I think) on race relations and racism "The longer we keep talking about it; The longer it's going to be an issue."
I don't understand what the segregation accomplishes to be honest. But, I'm unfamiliar with this particular approach to this particular subject. Is it working?
That's not segregation, it's freedom of association, an inherent right of all human beings.
Even if they kept your (presumably) white ass from joining, I'd support them.
That's not segregation, it's freedom of association, an inherent right of all human beings.
Even if they kept your (presumably) white ass from joining, I'd support them.
That isn't what was presented. As you see in my follow up post, I addressed that. I to FULLY support the freedom of association. :cool:
That isn't what was presented. As you see in my follow up post, I addressed that. I to FULLY support the freedom of association. :cool:
I don't think you did address it.
Segregation is natural.
It is normal.
I'd even go so far to say that it is often beneficial, as like-minded people can be, I would presume, more productive and efficient in whatever endeavor they are engaged.
When it enforced by law, that's when it gets wrong.
I don't think you did address it.
Segregation is natural.
It is normal.
I'd even go so far to say that it is often beneficial, as like-minded people can be, I would presume, more productive and efficient in whatever endeavor they are engaged.
When it enforced by law, that's when it gets wrong.
Look, if you want to say, "I feel more comfortable hanging out with people like me" I'll completely understand. That's why I go to poker night and not Tupperware parties.
:cool:
dialM4murder
05-02-09, 05:17
Oh I don't doubt for a second that thats why some people have joined the site. The "gun crowd" hasn't always welcomed blacks with open arms. Heck, the number of threads that were zapped or locked on GlockTalk alone after Obama was elected speaks volumes.
I'm sure some people were searching for a gun community where they didn't have to deal with the sometimes racially charged vibe of particular forums or posters.
I personally don't let those things bother me at all. I'm just as comfortable here on M4C as I am over there. Sure, I wont be signing up on Stormfront anytime soon, but hell if there was info there i needed, id get the info and "keep it moving" as they say.
I was just tickled that there was such a site. As many have posted here, I don't meet too many Black gun nuts like myself. There are a number of Blacks at the range I frequent, and when they see my AR you'd think I just pulled out a molecular pulse rifle from the latest alien shooter video game. :eek: This is the face I usually get.
As far as the Morgan Freeman quote, I agree to an extent. However, not talking about any particular issue wont make it vanish into thin air. Now clowns like Jesse Jackson and good ole Al Sharpton, those are the types I believe Mr. Freeman was referring to. The types that just constantly make race an issue for no reason at all.
That being said, I think we need more Puertorican female shooters. Yum. :D
This could use some follow-up info:
I stumbled on this on youtube while looking for a better Bob Marley vid. Looks like the info cut-off is post 2003.
www.youtube.com/watch/v=wBdw5TvmJf0&NR=1
This link will need some work. I can't get it to come up.
Here's some info to help find it:
Title: South Africa- Buffalo Soldiers
Time: 23.37
By: journeymanpictures
Tags include: South Africa , refugees , mercenaries.
Lots of different languages and dialects. No sub-titles or voice overs.
The history of Southern Africa is complex , and ( at least for me) more than a little confusing. I'm in the process of trying to get a few more clues , so I looked around Wiki a little. Here's the top 3 sources that I found fairly fast.
Wiki's not perfect but it does have some quality control standards in place to help fight off the usual error net drivel:
www.wikipedia.com
Type in:
Botswana
UNITA
Mfecane
Botswana is quite small , but very squared away. I had thought Botswana was a constitutional monarchy like Jordan.
Wrong-- but the royal family has included Anglo/Americans ( in the WW2 Nazi meaning)-- and at least a couple of Kings have been elected President.
In pretty clean elections.
Botswana is kinda like the ROK , too_small to survive without some smart alliance work.
ETA:
But strong enough and smart enough to avoid being overwhelmed by it's huge neighbors.
CALSHOOTER
05-02-09, 21:49
The original question was asked about knowing any black gun owners. I don't think we should focus on the color of law abiding gun owners at this time or any time. The reason I say this is because at local, state and federal level our law makers are all different races, creed, vermin, etc. and are working harder than ever to take away our 2nd amendment rights. I live in the liberal state of california and trust me when I say D. Frankenstein and Backless (world tour) Obama have a plan and that plan is called transnationalism. Look it up, you'll be shocked. We as a people need to stand up for our rights and sovereignty in a peaceful but vigorous way or the black rifle may go away. I am a black law abiding gun owner and the 2nd amendment is color blind.
The original question was asked about knowing any black gun owners. I don't think we should focus on the color of law abiding gun owners at this time or any time. The reason I say this is because at local, state and federal level our law makers are all different races, creed, vermin, etc. and are working harder than ever to take away our 2nd amendment rights. I live in the liberal state of california and trust me when I say D. Frankenstein and Backless (world tour) Obama have a plan and that plan is called transnationalism. Look it up, you'll be shocked. We as a people need to stand up for our rights and sovereignty in a peaceful but vigorous way or the black rifle may go away. I am a black law abiding gun owner and the 2nd amendment is color blind.
Excellent post and I agree 100%.
Mace
Just a wild guess , but I think that (maybe) the history of the Botsawan royal family was the inspiration for the Eddie Murphy flic: " Coming to America".
Except that the prince actually went to England to attend an upper-crust college.
The future Queen Mother could have had her pick of suitors.
Yeah , I've seen her picture. Drop dead , jaw dropping -- classically beautiful.
Anyway , maybe she got tired of being chased by guys with names like Sir Preston Poindexter M. T. Suit , and brutish , pushy, arrogant rugger jocks , and decided that going out with a real gentleman prince from a warrior dynasty would be a refreshing change from the same old lame upper-crust bozo's .
Oh I don't doubt for a second that thats why some people have joined the site. The "gun crowd" hasn't always welcomed blacks with open arms. Heck, the number of threads that were zapped or locked on GlockTalk alone after Obama was elected speaks volumes.
I'm sure some people were searching for a gun community where they didn't have to deal with the sometimes racially charged vibe of particular forums or posters.
I personally don't let those things bother me at all. I'm just as comfortable here on M4C as I am over there. Sure, I wont be signing up on Stormfront anytime soon, but hell if there was info there i needed, id get the info and "keep it moving" as they say.
I was just tickled that there was such a site. As many have posted here, I don't meet too many Black gun nuts like myself. There are a number of Blacks at the range I frequent, and when they see my AR you'd think I just pulled out a molecular pulse rifle from the latest alien shooter video game. :eek: This is the face I usually get.
As far as the Morgan Freeman quote, I agree to an extent. However, not talking about any particular issue wont make it vanish into thin air. Now clowns like Jesse Jackson and good ole Al Sharpton, those are the types I believe Mr. Freeman was referring to. The types that just constantly make race an issue for no reason at all.
That being said, I think we need more Puertorican female shooters. Yum. :D
Your post makes good sense, as no negative connotation to blacks should ever be made in reference to firearms. If someone is a thug, then take issue regardless of race.
I'm sure I'll get castrated with a spoon asking anything remotely "race related" but I was wondering, do any of you know any black gun owners?
I find it rather discouraging that I know of only one. I have yet to encounter a black gun owner at a gun shop, gun show, range, etc. While I feel that it isn't about "who" the legal, responsible gun owners are but rather that there are more of them out there, I just wish they were a more visual, represented part of the community.
So, do you know of any black gun owners?
A couple, I guess. I don't know too many Black people, though. Just worked out that way since this area is mostly White, maybe 90%, with the rest split between Blacks and Latino/Asian/etc.
If not already (since just because I don't see it or read about it in the news, doesn't mean it's not the case) Blacks should be on the forefront of pushing for 2nd Amendment rights/freedom because of gun-control's racist roots, etc. We're in this together.
variablebinary
05-05-09, 09:07
What's the point of this thread again?
Yes there are Black people that own guns, go shooting, post on this site etc etc
Depending on where you live in the USA you are more or less likely to meet a Black gun owner.
Why does this require additional analysis, consideration, or debate compared to a white person, or Hispanic, or Mexican or Asian owning a gun?
RogerinTPA
05-05-09, 09:20
The original question was asked about knowing any black gun owners. I don't think we should focus on the color of law abiding gun owners at this time or any time. The reason I say this is because at local, state and federal level our law makers are all different races, creed, vermin, etc. and are working harder than ever to take away our 2nd amendment rights. I live in the liberal state of california and trust me when I say D. Frankenstein and Backless (world tour) Obama have a plan and that plan is called transnationalism. Look it up, you'll be shocked. We as a people need to stand up for our rights and sovereignty in a peaceful but vigorous way or the black rifle may go away. I am a black law abiding gun owner and the 2nd amendment is color blind.
Well said. We as an ethnic minority called "Gun Owners" will either sink or swim together. We all need to be pulling in the same direction to collectively preserve our rights as "Gun Owners".
Well said. We as an ethnic minority called "Gun Owners" will either sink or swim together. We all need to be pulling in the same direction to collectively preserve our rights as "Gun Owners".
Totally agree. Perhaps we as a group or subculture or whatever you want to call it, should try to think this was as much as possible. We've got to stick together.
While in Junior High School back so many years ago I wont mention the date...The Father of a friend of mine allowed me to handle and shoot my first AR-15, a semi auto version of a 1927 Thompson, a Springfield M1A and his and a Colt 1911.
Before retirment John worked as a Prison guard for the Federal Medical Center Prison here in Springfield Missouri. He manned a guard tower for over twenty years at that facility. Oh yeah and by the way...John was African American.
I'm sure I'll get castrated with a spoon asking anything remotely "race related" but I was wondering, do any of you know any black gun owners?
I find it rather discouraging that I know of only one. I have yet to encounter a black gun owner at a gun shop, gun show, range, etc. While I feel that it isn't about "who" the legal, responsible gun owners are but rather that there are more of them out there, I just wish they were a more visual, represented part of the community.
So, do you know of any black gun owners?
Quite a few.
Most are from work, but my best friend also.
He voted for Obama, and we keep having discussions about this, and he is coming around I'm happy to say. I helped him select his first gun and started him with the safety lecture. I also gave him a copy of "In The Gravest Extreme", by Massad Ayoob.
He is starting to take responsibility for his own safety, and that of his family. His wife is a liberal gun hating immigrant. She too may come around in time. My wife, also an immigrant will now go shooting with me. When we got married she would point to a gun and tell me to "Put it away."
It takes time to change people's mindset, and I'm doing what I can. The thing is, I don't know if we have enough time. The potential damage that this current administration can do is remarkable.
Biker
My name is Ed and I'm a gun owner that happens to be Black.
Here's an interesting read on "guns" from a Black perspective.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/24/black-gun-owners-rock-and-a-hard-place/
I grew up in an area of town with very few black people. I think we had three black kids in my graduating class of around 300. But of toes three the two males, I'm friends with both, are both gun owners and military members.
NeoNeanderthal
10-02-13, 16:32
I know 4 black people (I live in NH). 3 are ex-millitary and own guns. 1 is from africa and is not a US citizen and does not own a gun.
Suwannee Tim
10-02-13, 16:51
Unlike Grant I do live in a racially diverse area, about 30% black. I see a fair number of black folks on the 7 and 15 yard pistol ranges which are open to the public. The last blacks I saw on the 200 yard rifle range was a couple of years ago. Several hispanics, no blacks. Same with canoeing. I have paddled with hundreds of different people, seen thousands on the rivers. I have seen maybe a half a dozen blacks in canoes or kayaks. It's a cultural thing.
My name is Ed and I'm a gun owner that happens to be Black.
Here's an interesting read on "guns" from a Black perspective.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/24/black-gun-owners-rock-and-a-hard-place/
Thanks for the link wahoo, an interesting read.
On of the men at church who is black has a gun but has little interest in shooting. His son however is a different matter. Son is now a Cadet at the Naval Academy and plays on the football team. I took him shooting a couple of months ago and he really likes to shoot. He shoots pretty well too, he is learning as quickly as anyone I have ever instructed. He was warmly welcomed at the range.
If half the blacks in America supported gun rights the argument would be over. If half the blacks in America voted Republican the Dem party would all but cease to exist.
Assuming for a moment we accept racial classifiers such as "black" as actually existing, yes I do.
brickboy240
10-02-13, 17:05
I guess it depends on where you live.
Here in Houston...yeah...I know several black people that own guns and shoot regularly. The racial make up at our ranges is usually diverse. I regularly see Asians, blacks, Latinos and Middle-Easterners at several of our ranges.
Most non-whites are shooting handguns or some sort of "non-hunting" long gun. The sporter bolt gun shooters and skeet/clays shooters are mostly white or Latino.
-brickboy240
Assuming for a moment we accept racial classifiers such as "black" as actually existing, yes I do.
That's a whole new topic. None of my black friends have any problem with the term as well as the black LEOs I work with. But I know some people do have a problem with it and I respect that.
Suwannee Tim
10-02-13, 17:55
There was a reputable poll done years ago of people of African ancestry asking their prefered racial name. The word "black" was prefered by over 60% over other names such as "African American", "negro" and "colored".
Where I live has a black pop. of 1.9%. I do not know any.
The article posted by Wahoo is very good. For those of you who don't know what it's like being a minority gun owner, or God help you, conservative, think about what it would be like coming out as gay in the '50s. It has seriously damaged my relationship with my siblings, still love each other, but don't really 'like' each other.
Yes, I personally know about five. There are a very good number who shoot regularly at a friend's indoor range.
That's a whole new topic. None of my black friends have any problem with the term as well as the black LEOs I work with. But I know some people do have a problem with it and I respect that.
For clarification I was referring to the fact that race is completely arbitrary and based upon little more than appearance. It doesn't exist at the genetic level. I wasn't taking issue with the terminology of race, that is an even more absurd discussion.
Every time you try and group together people you define as "black" there will always be a genetic exception (usually many) that disqualify many of those "black" people from belonging to that group.
Additionally, many people who you would not qualify as "black" based upon appearance will be genetically correct for inclusion in that group.
The entire premise of race is little more than human perception and we might as well classify people according to height or hair color, it would be just as valid (and stupid).
Of course worst of all are people who categorize themselves along such lines completely oblivious to the fact that it means almost nothing, but their entire identity is invested in the classification.
And who bumped this topic from 4 years ago?
For clarification I was referring to the fact that race is completely arbitrary and based upon little more than appearance. It doesn't exist at the genetic level. I wasn't taking issue with the terminology of race, that is an even more absurd discussion.
Every time you try and group together people you define as "black" there will always be a genetic exception (usually many) that disqualify many of those "black" people from belonging to that group.
Additionally, many people who you would not qualify as "black" based upon appearance will be genetically correct for inclusion in that group.
The entire premise of race is little more than human perception and we might as well classify people according to height or hair color, it would be just as valid (and stupid).
Of course worst of all are people who categorize themselves along such lines completely oblivious to the fact that it means almost nothing, but their entire identity is invested in the classification.
And who bumped this topic from 4 years ago?
Very true. I work with a guy who is half black and half white. He has all the black characteristics except for his skin color. It throws a lot of people off. It's hilarious.
My name is Ed
Same
and I'm a gun owner
Same
that happens to be Black.
Same.
Wow.
Here's an interesting read on "guns" from a Black perspective.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/24/black-gun-owners-rock-and-a-hard-place/
Good article. I've experienced a lot of what Blanchard wrote about. If the Reconstruction Era in the South, the Civil Rights Movement, and the widespread minority on minority crime in the poorest neighborhoods of our biggest cities, don't highlight that the Right to Keep and Bear Arms should be important to Blacks, then I don't know what will.
For clarification I was referring to the fact that race is completely arbitrary and based upon little more than appearance. It doesn't exist at the genetic level. I wasn't taking issue with the terminology of race, that is an even more absurd discussion.
Every time you try and group together people you define as "black" there will always be a genetic exception (usually many) that disqualify many of those "black" people from belonging to that group.
Additionally, many people who you would not qualify as "black" based upon appearance will be genetically correct for inclusion in that group.
The entire premise of race is little more than human perception and we might as well classify people according to height or hair color, it would be just as valid (and stupid).
Of course worst of all are people who categorize themselves along such lines completely oblivious to the fact that it means almost nothing, but their entire identity is invested in the classification.
Well said.
And who bumped this topic from 4 years ago?
It was Wahoo (the other Ed). While I like many of us here frown on necroposting, I think there's some merit, what with everything thats been going on.
The article he posted makes an interesting point: its hard coming out as a black or minority gun owner, especially as a Conservative or Republican one. With the recent attacks on our Second Amendment Rights, brought on by crime in the inner cities (heavy minority population), the left has already convinced much of the population there that the blame lies in the device, not the perpetrator.
Its worth noting that many of the original gun control laws of the early 20th century were written to deter minorities from ownership. Kenn Blanchard also wrote a bit about this, I believe. Presently, in cities like DC and Chi-raq, such laws prevent the victims of urban crime (again minorities) from seeking an adequate means of protecting themselves and their families. If I were a pro gun politician, I'd be looking at this angle as well.
The NRA and other national 2A organizations seem to miss this mark as well. Not saying the NRA is racist. Not at all. But, they seem to have a hard time reaching out to minority populations. Improving this can help the organization's standing, and our positioning versus those who use urban crime in gun control cities to further their agenda.
The two response videos on this page are pure genius. If I ever meet Colion Noir, the beer's on me, brother.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2013/09/15/black-gun-owners-defend-nra-in-multiple-videos-after-sarah-silverman-mocks-black-nra-n1700572
Yes, lots.
A few.
:D
:laugh::sarcastic:
Oh, and to answer the question: Black, none that I can think of. Non-white, yes.
I just edited myself and it is simple.
Men and women are made of flesh.
Flesh comes in all colors (see what I did there?).
Wow, how could anyone of the various color whatever have the same or not the same view as me?
Here is my not exactly shocked face...
ETA.. We don't talk enough. Simple.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-03-13, 02:51
When I was a young LCpl, my Cpl was a black man from inner city ATL. He was a good man with a terribly rough and tumble beginning. After spending some time around me, he decided he wanted to buy his first gun so he got an XD9 and a TLR2. He got bit by the gun bug right after and set his sights on a SCAR 16.
He spoke like an urban youth from the streets of Atlanta, but was one of the smartest and wisest men I ever learned from. He broke a lot of racial barriers I had and became a good friend. I think he is a Sgt or SSgt with Ground Signals Intel somewhere now.
Contrary to what the LIBERAL MEDIA would have you believe, black men are just like white men.
My next door neighbors are black gun owners, and they're super cool. The Dad's got this amazing old Chinese RPK that looks unfired. I still have to take them to the range. They keep feeding me the best bbq I've ever eaten in my life! Super great neighbors, and good friends.
Nightvisionary
10-03-13, 04:43
I belong to a private range with several thousand members. I have observed lots of white, hispanic, pacific islander, and asian members. I cannot recall seeing any blacks. I recall the pro-2nd Amendment rallies I attended at the state capitol in the spring showed similar demographics.
For many of the reasons the article discussed the Black community is predominantly anti gun. Funny thing is there are plenty of people with guns but they are not talked about because guns tend to be seen as offensive weapons rather than defensive tools. More And more these days I am seeing more people arming themselves expressing an interest to, however they typically don't run in social circles where its common to "proudly" own or venture into things like IDPA and such.
I can't tell you the number of guys I have met who would like to have a gun but would never carry it out of fear that any interaction with LE would get them killed or that they wouldn't be privvy to the same rights of self defense if they actually had to use it. They think I'm crazy for carrying daily or riding around with a car full of guns when I'm driving to/from matches or classes. Gotta admit though my buddies and I always laugh at the idea that things really could get interesting if we were ever pulled over while in route to a class and the cars loaded up with some serious equipment riding through NC.
For many of the reasons the article discussed the Black community is predominantly anti gun. Funny thing is there are plenty of people with guns but they are not talked about because guns tend to be seen as offensive weapons rather than defensive tools. More And more these days I am seeing more people arming themselves expressing an interest to, however they typically don't run in social circles where its common to "proudly" own or venture into things like IDPA and such.
I can't tell you the number of guys I have met who would like to have a gun but would never carry it out of fear that any interaction with LE would get them killed or that they wouldn't be privvy to the same rights of self defense if they actually had to use it. They think I'm crazy for carrying daily or riding around with a car full of guns when I'm driving to/from matches or classes. Gotta admit though my buddies and I always laugh at the idea that things really could get interesting if we were ever pulled over while in route to a class and the cars loaded up with some serious equipment riding through NC.
Addressing the last part, I can understand why you feel that way, but speaking for myself and the LEO's I know, no problems would you have. In less than 5 seconds most of the time any LEO worth a damn should be able to know trouble from a brother in arms (and I don't mean brother in any slang way). Maybe it is because I have a few REALLY GREAT black friends who come out and shoot my 2 & 3 gun matches and have noticed more & more blacks in my CWP classes, I see things as they are. I have even had some black teachers & fireman come through for cwp's recently. It comes down to either people "get it" and act accordingly or not. Doesn't matter if it's dealing with guys, work ethic, or life outlook. I get along quit finewith anyone who gets it regardless of the amount of light their hide reflects.
Like someone said on here once before, the stereotype should not be a skin color thing, but a cultural thing. You have to look at a mans character. I am proud to call the blacks I know who shoot friends, especially 2 of them. Those 2 are damn good men and I would do anything to help them out and back them up with my life.
No, but that's probably more a result of my local demographic population.
I do see black enthusiasts at the range.
Many of my neighbors in my former neighborhood were black (we were well known, both as the white folks, and the folks with the 3-leg dog). Many were former/current military. I'm sure several had firearms, but it never came up in conversation.
While I like many of us here frown on necroposting, I think there's some merit,
Merit is what defines the difference between simply posting something in an older yet topically relevant thread, and necroposting in one.
If wahoo'd only posted to enlighten us with his deomgraphic stats after 4yrs of inactivity....malo.
However, he's been around long enough to know how this is done. That link was a good find.
I personally don't know one gun owner who is black. Even at the range, I may see one or two a year. We have a large black population here, but they aren't into guns from what I see. Although the last time I was in the local gun shop, there were a couple Predator looking thugs who stunk of pot so bad, there was almost a cloud around them. They we're asking the guy behind the counter about "Dat tight ass mawfaukee" (An AK) on the wall.
The time before this I saw a black person at the gun shop, it was a young lady asking the clerk if they would be interested in buying her boyfriends sawed off shotgun. I did the best I could to not LMAO.
I know 3 personally. One man and two women.
I also have several co-workers who are black and own guns, but that kinda comes with the territory(LE).
The NRA and other national 2A organizations seem to miss this mark as well. Not saying the NRA is racist. Not at all. But, they seem to have a hard time reaching out to minority populations. Improving this can help the organization's standing, and our positioning versus those who use urban crime in gun control cities to further their agenda.
The NRA is correct to not make a stand on the race issue. Groups like the NAACP are actually racist. Racism of all forms needs to end, there is no such thing as benevolent or positive racism. If I lived in India I wouldn't join the White Shooting Club of Mumbai.
Racism is an arbitrary classifier with no meaningful scientific foundation and it has so many genetic exceptions it pains me to even discuss issues of race as if they actually exist.
We need to stop being "races" and start being people.
Certainly heritage is fine. And if a person of Asian origin wants to immerse himself in African cultural traditions then no problem. Bruce Lee was a huge part of my life growing up and I participated in what could be correctly defined as Asian cultural traditions which included understanding religions for purposes of context as Zen (Ch'an Buddhism) is such a significant influence in many martial arts, learning the language so I could understand what the specific words mean rather than simply parrot the accepted English equivalent and things like that.
In some ways I was more Asian than some Asians I knew. I still remember a few co workers at a government job I had long ago being floored that I was more knowledgeable about Chinese characters than another coworker whose parents were from China but she grew up in the US.
We could of course classify by geography but that quickly becomes almost as meaningless as soon as somebody is born in this country and is willing to go to war against their parents country as many did during WWII. Geographic classifications of a person are simply to fluid and cultures can be adopted or abandoned.
But race is worse of all. It's completely murky and ultimately what makes us different isn't the shade of skin pigment you currently have but the cultures, values and religious beliefs you accept and practice.
Eventually we are all African American, some just made the trip more recently than others.
We need to stop being "races" and start being people.
Never gonna happen. As long as man walks the earth, there will be violence, hatred, & division. It's always been that way, & always will be. It's human nature. Nice sentiment though.
Never gonna happen. As long as man walks the earth, there will be violence, hatred, & division. It's always been that way, & always will be. It's human nature. Nice sentiment though.
I agree that tribalism is deep rooted in our psyche, but it is my hope that if you show race doesn't exist at the genetic level then just as it was proven that the sun is the center of our solar system and people abandoned the idea of a earth center universe, that people might come to understand how baseless this other "human assumption" is.
We will of course still have plenty of opportunity for division and hatred be it national, cultural, religious, etc. I'd just like to scratch the really stupid one off the list if I could.
Racism is the belief that I have some kind of greater commonality with people like Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Janet Reno, etc. than I do with Neil Tyson, Morgan Freeman, etc.
Never gonna happen. As long as man walks the earth, there will be violence, hatred, & division. It's always been that way, & always will be. It's human nature. Nice sentiment though.
Perhaps with more communication these days and less geographic isolation there will be less of it which was formerly attributable to geography and lack of exposure. Like human mortality, 100% of people will still die eventually, but lifespan has been extended versus the past. While perfection is impossible, improvement can and does happen.
brickboy240
10-03-13, 15:20
There are large and powerful entities that make big money off of keeping Americans segregated, angry and fearful of each other. Diced up into little groups and at each others throats. Whites vs. non-whites, rich vs. poor, corporations versus individuals and so on.
Groups like the NAACP truly never want to see the end of racism or evil acts like the James Byrd dragging or Travyon Martin shooting. they exist, make money and have a future ONLY if the anger, fear, resentment and horrible acts continue.
When you realize this...it all starts making sense.
-brickboy240
There are large and powerful entities that make big money off of keeping Americans segregated, angry and fearful of each other. Diced up into little groups and at each others throats. Whites vs. non-whites, rich vs. poor, corporations versus individuals and so on.
Groups like the NAACP truly never want to see the end of racism or evil acts like the James Byrd dragging or Travyon Martin shooting. they exist, make money and have a future ONLY if the anger, fear, resentment and horrible acts continue.
When you realize this...it all starts making sense.
-brickboy240
Pretty sure everyone gets that. Not like Al Sharpton has any other valuable skills.
There are large and powerful entities that make big money off of keeping Americans segregated, angry and fearful of each other. Diced up into little groups and at each others throats. Whites vs. non-whites, rich vs. poor, corporations versus individuals and so on.
Groups like the NAACP truly never want to see the end of racism or evil acts like the James Byrd dragging or Travyon Martin shooting. they exist, make money and have a future ONLY if the anger, fear, resentment and horrible acts continue.
When you realize this...it all starts making sense.
-brickboy240
Agreed, but it spans much wider than activist groups. The execs at Wellpoint and other huge insurance companies are set to make a fortune from Obamacare, and I somehow doubt their board is staffed by bleeding heart libs. Same with the big labor folks who would love to see a cheap, compliant, and disposable immigrant-heavy workforce. Those RINOS want open borders too to cater to their donors, but few are willing to say it out loud.
Nightvisionary
10-04-13, 03:44
I worked in corrections at one time. I think the elephant in the room that most would rather ignore is the fact that 1 in 3 adult black males are prohibited by law from possessing firearms due to a felony conviction. That's a pretty big number.
Phillygunguy
10-04-13, 07:20
I know one black guy, one of my best friends who actually got me into shooting when he worked as a correctional officer, he owned quite a few guns. I see many blacks, at the range I shoot at. But without a doubt they voted for Obama and don't seem to care enough about the 2A . I have seen people of all different races, black Asian, latino, even people from India who enjoy shooting. And I would hope it continues to grow, because we're going to need everyone to keep the fight for the 2A. We also need to get rid of the stereo typical white (derp derp) mentality about gun owners.
It doesn't matter about the incarceration rates. There is a fundamental or statistically significant difference between the two. There are many factors, each important to some.
Growing up there simply was no fascination with them. We hunted but after that it was not emphasized. Part of it was due, no doubt, to the perception of LEO if you were accosted by them. With hunting there was less chance of whatever. Down South at the time (and now) I believe they were/are correct.
Probably not much different today, for better or worse.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
I've seen them on the Television.... But no none in this area really shoot. Even in competition I have yet to see one in the wild. Maybe it's a cultural thing? I'm sure the last place a black person wants is to be surrounded by a bunch of old white men with guns. Like what sorts of things would we offer them in common in terms of social, political, or whatever? Just thinking about the reality of it and preferences.
brickboy240
10-04-13, 11:41
Yep, the insurance companies are going to do to the healthcare system what the mortgage companies did to the housing market.
Make their big money on the front end then bail out before it hits the fan.
My prediction is that in 2-3 years...almost no medium to small employer will offer ANY sort of healthcare plans at all.
...all by design.
The insurance companies were forced into this and will make their money signing everyone up. Then..when it become unsustainable to foot the bill for all of those with preexisting conditions...the big insurance companies will get OUT of the healthcare insurance side of the insurance industry.
-brickboy240
Now that you mention it, why don't I see more black folks at the range or in gun shops? I'm starting to get conscientious because I'm the only guy I know here locally that fits in this category. I know plenty of Soldiers that are gun owners. In fact, I bought my 1st gun from the NCOIC of TMC#2 at McGregor Range, NM. He had his FFL and is black. I love going to the range with him because he always brought a nice selection of firearms to try out.
i don't know why this is a big deal topic, but it seems it keeps coming up.
becuase of the youtube content i subscribe to, i'm constantly referred to watch mrcolionnoir's content by youtube.
he did a cool aar on stephen pineau's class...
I've seen them on the Television.... But no none in this area really shoot. Even in competition I have yet to see one in the wild. Maybe it's a cultural thing? I'm sure the last place a black person wants is to be surrounded by a bunch of old white men with guns. Like what sorts of things would we offer them in common in terms of social, political, or whatever? Just thinking about the reality of it and preferences.
The reality of it is quite the opposite. I'm more prone to have a conversation with a strange white person at the gun range than any other place on earth, other than a Raiders game. In the wild I have met many white people who were quite helpful and on occasion they accept the fact that I may know a little more about guns than they do. I just last week had a 70 year old white dude insist that I shoot a round of trap with his $3000 shotgun. He was convinced I'd do better with it than with my riot/zombie gun that he and his friends laughed at. Come to think of it not one of them was scared or stepped in front of their wife when I walked up with my M1S90. There is a lot to be said for the gun culture. Same when I'm bass fishing or riding a motorcycle.
I enjoy being the only Black guy a lot of times as many people have bought into the negative stereotype and I am never last in a class - usually in the top 25 percent and I instruct. Being an engineer I understand materials, manufacturing processes and design and firearms are brutishly simple compared to the things I've worked on in my profession so it's a relaxing hobby to me and I enjoy developing passions in newcomers.
When I go home I offer free instruction to all of my Black friends and few have taken me up on it. I've had more Whites take an interest and simply ask to go to lunch afterwards and a promise that they will continue training and refusing to take any money.
This is what I've been told by many:
Safety perception issues
Negative stereotypes about shooters (racism, etc)
No real interest in firearms or weapons of ANY type
Most were very concerned with the perception of LEO and white society-at-large of them having (and God forbid) actually using one.
Yes, even though we live in the same nation we have differing concerns.
In lieu of what I KNOW about the black community I find it appallingly amusing at those who fear of a large, armed black uprising. Outside of the gangs (and I've not witnessed any of them at any range) we hunt and that's about it - and it usually isn't trophy hunting, either. We are different - much of it, i believe, is due to the unique historical circumstances. Men are men. We chase shit. We played with fire and shot BB guns as children.
I do know one thing: Blacks are key in MANY areas in this and other constitutional battles. Do what you can to introduce them to the things that you are into because many feel that "those things are things White people do" which is a belief that YOU can play an important role. Believe me, every little thing you do is noticed just as you notice us. Make it pay off.
At the end of the day we are all ambassadors for our race, family and nation. It's good to be on a position to dispel stupid stereotypes and I absolutely love the whites I meet who don't have stereotypes and converse about the things we have in common: my brothers and sisters.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Failure2Stop
10-04-13, 21:35
I worked in corrections at one time. I think the elephant in the room that most would rather ignore is the fact that 1 in 3 adult black males are prohibited by law from possessing firearms due to a felony conviction. That's a pretty big number.
That seems like a very high percentage.
Source?
I am not doubting your integrity, I just like to have references when statistics are stated. Frankly, I don't want this to divert the thread, so please let's not get off topic.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Yes they have all sorts of guns and they hunt and have a garden and eat at the same restaurants as I do and and we have them over for Christmas and the younger son has been my sons best friend since 3 rd grade and is now 22 and the oldest son is in the Air Force working on F16 flight control computers, He is an ultimate nerd and got suspended for doing 5 term papers for his friends , for free!
Nightvisionary
10-05-13, 03:13
That seems like a very high percentage.
Source?
I am not doubting your integrity, I just like to have references when statistics are stated. Frankly, I don't want this to divert the thread, so please let's not get off topic.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Unfortunately the horses mouth is down due to "The lapse in federal funding":rolleyes: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/unavailable/
However here are some other sources.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121724
Beck said that, based on current rates of incarceration, 28.5 percent of black males will likely serve time in a state or federal prison for a felony conviction, a rate seven times that for white males.
Keep in mind not all felony convictions result in incarceration. Many offenders receive probation and occassionally suspended sentences. So add that to the number quoted above.
http://paa2011.princeton.edu/papers/111687
This paper has described growth in the size and social distribution of the American “criminal
class.” If we use current or former imprisonment as the criterion for class membership, we estimate its
size at approximately 7.7 million people at year-end 2010. By our estimates, about 3.4 percent of the
12
adult voting age population have once served or are currently serving time in a state or federal prison. If
we adopt a more inclusive definition of the criminal class, including all convicted of a felony regardless
of imprisonment, these numbers increase to 19.8 million persons, representing 8.6 percent of the adult
population and approximately one-third of the African American adult male population.
At the end of the day we are all ambassadors for our race
Except for those of us who understand race doesn't exist at the genetic level and refuse to participate in notions like gravity is the work of invisible fairies pulling things to the earth.
People who define by race are racists, I want as little in common with those small minds as possible.
Nightvisionary
10-05-13, 05:39
Except for those of us who understand race doesn't exist at the genetic level and refuse to participate in notions like gravity is the work of invisible fairies pulling things to the earth.
People who define by race are racists, I want as little in common with those small minds as possible.
I could get on board with that although it's not the reality we live in.:(
I could get on board with that although it's not the reality we live in.:(
I understand the reality is we live under the specter of many demons that don't actually exist.
Boba Fett v2
10-05-13, 22:22
So, do you know of any black gun owners?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKMi023Ofro&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Yes. I know two LEO that are avid shooters.
I never thought about them being black men until you asked the question. I always thought of them as just two guys I know from work.
I think they are both Sailors at heart. I don't trust either one of them near the liquor cabinet in my kitchen.
No. I don't consider my colleagues "gun owners" when the only guns they have are the ones Uncle Sam provided them.
ClearedHot
10-05-13, 23:32
To answer the OP's question, I know a few black guys that compete in USPSA events. Secondly, I don't care what race or ethnicity someone is, as long as they're a safe and responsible gun owner.
do any of you know any black gun owners?
Yes, in fact I took my initial CPL course with a buddy who is black.
I think they are both Sailors at heart. I don't trust either one of them near the liquor cabinet in my kitchen.
That's funny!:p
Yeah a guy from the UK who became a citizen because of our gun freedoms, he lives in TX.
filthy phil
10-06-13, 18:54
Just one.
Has a sig m400, an ak, hk squeeze cocker fotay, couple glocks
Boba Fett v2
10-06-13, 21:49
It wasn't until I went back and read the rest of this thread did I realize I responded to a 4 year old post .
Sent from my ZTE V768 using Tapatalk 2
When I first saw this thread I read it as "Black Gun" owners and thought WTF is up with that.. Eventually I took a look.. DOH!
BoringGuy45
10-06-13, 22:45
I've actually met quite a few black gun owners, many of them with very conservative viewpoints.
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