Medical Training for Laypersons

[Barbara]

Having this discussion on another board. Everyone agrees that the ARC First Aid program isn't nearly enough. Suggestions have ranged from MFR, to WEMT to EMT-B training.

There's a lot of people here with backgrounds in emergency medicine or medicine in general. Thoughts? This is assuming the person will not be using the skills regularly but wants to be more prepared than the general population tends to be.

Any specific schools or training? Specific skill sets that have the most value vs. limited training time.

Personally, I lean towards MFR but there seems to be a lot of variation in the level of training given. Some depts and schools seem to train closer to EMT level, while others barely rise about basic first aid. I've never seen the NR test, so not sure what the bare requirements are and may be way off base in my suggestion.

[Chooie]

Seek out first responder training - that's basically a step below EMT-B, and is comparable to what folks going through FF1 and the police academy get.

[Barbara]

Yeah, I did EMT-B instead (actually just finishing up the end of this month) but my goals were a little different. I'll probably take it a step further and do EMT-I next year and go from there.

The discussion at the other location was that the MFR course is so inconsistant that a lot of people didn't recommend it unless the instructor and curriculum were known and verified as worthwhile. Which leads to the question: If not MFR, then what?

As I said, my suggestion has been MFR to those who ask, but given the dissent, my question is what other options are available and feasible for civilians not looking to invest in a completely seperate career.

What about WEMT classes? I'm not really familiar with them. I know there's some combat medical classes open to civilians but those don't focus on the most common issues that civilians are going to face..

Bummer. I just looked at some WEMT training and they're offering it in my area in two weeks and I can't take it. Maybe next year. Looks like good stuff, but maybe not quite the thing for the average civilian looking for a better way to respond to emergencies they're likely to come across in day to day life (ie: car accidents, medical emergencies, etc.)

[SeriousStudent]

In my very humble opinion, I think that the greatest strength of the WEMT courses are their stressing of improvisation, and thinking out of the box.

I have personally witnessed folks that could not treat a patient, as they did not have their favorite supply item with them. I've watched others take a room apart, and keep a patient alive.

Your mileage may vary. I'm an old fossil, before the invention of gauze. So this advice is worth what you paid for it.

[Decon]

I would just tell them to take the first aid class and research more in-depth what they were taught.

[citizensoldier16]

I would start out with either the Red Cross or American Heart Association's CPR class coupled with a general first aid or First Responder class. You'll learn the basics of patient assessment and managment, airway, hemmorhage control, and splinting. It'll be enough for most people not directly involved in EMS or heathcare. If you want to go further, EMT-Basic -Intermediate and -Paramedic classes are always available, but are more time consuming and costly if you're not associated with a department that's willing to pay for it.

WEMT is a good class, but I highly recommend those who are interested take an EMT-B class first. You get the basic building blocks in -B class, and build from there. For example...if you don't know what traction is and what/why it's used, learning to make a traction splint out of branch and a belt won't do you much good.

As with any course of learning, one must master the basics and understand the foundational concepts before moving on to more advanced care methods and theories.

[vaspence]

Getting medical training is a major goal for me this year. I have done some research and discussed it with friends who are EMT's and physicians. It appears to me that a good option for the lay person is the WFR program offered by SOLO, WMA or WMI. The programs all seem well respected and thorough.

[citizensoldier16]

Getting medical training is a major goal for me this year. I have done some research and discussed it with friends who are EMT's and physicians. It appears to me that a good option for the lay person is the WFR program offered by SOLO, WMA or WMI. The programs all seem well respected and thorough.

As I said above...I would recommend taking a basic first aid and CPR class FIRST. Going to WEMT or WFR classes with no prior training is like going to Mountain Warfare school before going to Basic Training.

[FMF_Doc]

EMT Basic is a good start, depending upon your end goal.

I still like the first responder, basic first aid, aed courses for most layman applications, as long as you really learn how to control bleeding, establish an airway and safely transport an injured person, the other skills can be learned over time.

As an FMF Corpsman and later in my career as the Sr Medic in a Guard Battalion, I taught a lot of first aid classes to soldiers and Marines. The Combat Lifesaver course materials are a great source of information that will help the non professional rescuer.

Unless you are doing something hardcore then IV admin and suturing are skills that you may not ever need to use.

I maintain my ARC instructor certs for CPR, AED and First Responder just to maintain basic level skills.

[ToddG]

I'm doing MFR at the ARC this month. I see it as a stable foundation on which to build more specific skills related to my particular needs.

[SeriousStudent]

I'm doing MFR at the ARC this month. I see it as a stable foundation on which to build more specific skills related to my particular needs.

Mr. Green, do you incorporate some of the legal implications of rendering first aid into the training you deliver?

I have not yet had an opportunity to train with you, and hope to someday remedy that. But I am curious what a person with your legal background, as well as firearms skills, would remind their students to consider.

Thanks very much, and I apologize if I have drifted the thread far off course. I know that the legal landscape has changed a tad since I was involved in medicine back in the late Pleistocene epoch.

[ToddG]

I don't give legal advice, especially when I'm teaching. IMO, the folks who taught your first-aid/MFR/EMT class should have covered that.

[SeriousStudent]

Thank you, I appreciate the speedy reply.

Have a safe and happy weekend.

[FMF_Doc]

Here is my take on staying out of legal trouble.....

Do not perform skills beyond your level of certification, and only do what is necessary to stabilize the situation until professional rescuers can respond.

You have to be able to justify your actions and articulate the need to perform any act.

[ToddG]

I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that SeriousStudent was asking specifically about rendering aid to someone after you have shot him.

[SeriousStudent]

I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that SeriousStudent was asking specifically about rendering aid to someone after you have shot him.

That was not my intention. My personal game plan was to call the proper law enforcement as soon as possible, and request that they dispatch medical aid as well.

I would prefer to avoid the bad guy's icky red stuff if at all possible.

I was basically curious if issues such as "Good Samaritan laws" ever came up in your class, and you answered how you would handle that question.

Thanks again.

[SeriousStudent]

Not Todd, but...

Several folks here are BLS/EMS faculty or instructors. Start a new thread and we can kick this around.

As always, an excellent idea. I shall do so.

[SeriousStudent]

Here is my take on staying out of legal trouble.....

Do not perform skills beyond your level of certification, and only do what is necessary to stabilize the situation until professional rescuers can respond.

You have to be able to justify your actions and articulate the need to perform any act.

Words worth engraving in granite. Thank you, Doc.

And from an old O3, thank you for your service.

[ToddG]

I was basically curious if issues such as "Good Samaritan laws" ever came up in your class, and you answered how you would handle that question.

I think there was a miscommunication. When I said I'm doing MFR this month, I meant taking the class as a student, not teaching it. The only classes I teach are shooting classes. :cool:

[SeriousStudent]

Yes, that was what I took from your post. Good luck with the class. :)

[Barbara]

The question originally came up because there were questions on the consistancy of MFR training..some teach to an almost Basic level of ability, and others don't get much beyond first aid. However a friend of one of the guys is setting one up and its supposed to be good stuff, so I think most of the group settled on that.

I just passed the Nation Registry last week for EMT-B..looking for a casual/contingency job in the field now..have a few few leads through friends, so wish me luck.

[Rotor Talker]

Congratulations!

You might consider doing the volunteer Fire / EMS route to build up some experience. It's how I got started in 1978, especially good to get 911 runs, convelescent transport is good for skill building and confidence, but the 911 runs are where it's at.

Good luck, let us know if we can help.

Bob

[ST911]

I just passed the Nation Registry last week for EMT-B..looking for a casual/contingency job in the field now..have a few few leads through friends, so wish me luck.

Do everything you can. See everything you can. Learn from everyone you can. Go somewhere where you'll see a lot of patients with a wide variety of conditions and injuries.

BLS skills save lives. Ensure your fundamentals are rock solid.

[Gutshot John]

I just passed the Nation Registry last week for EMT-B..looking for a casual/contingency job in the field now..have a few few leads through friends, so wish me luck.

Congratulations and good luck.

It you have trouble...try finding a volunteer position. They're all over the place and it will give you valuable experience. Often departments will hire from their volunteer pool as well.

[Barbara]

Thanks, all. :)

I actually have an orientation with the Red Cross on Monday. I've heard mixed opinions on that but the local group is pretty solid. Also have a very good chance of getting on with the dept I want, if the state doesn't take too long sending me a license.