View Full Version : Marketplace rules, why they make no sense
The rules of this website's marketplace make no sense to me. Unlike nearly every other marketplace in the dozens of gun forums out there, this one does not allow you to post to advertisements saying "I'll take it".
This is a problem for two reasons:
1) You don't know if an item is spoken for already (or two or three times if it's such a good deal people feel the needs to call "dibs on seconds"). Since you don't know, you waste your time emailing or sending a message on an item that may have been sold hours or days ago.
2) Since nobody knows what has been spoken for, except the seller, this leaves the marketplace much more vulnerable to fraud. A thief can list an item for sale, possibly at a really good price to encourage quick and multiple payments, and have several people agree to buy and pay before anybody knows what's up. On any other regular forum, somebody posts I'll take it, and if the guy is still trying to sell the same item to multiple people it's very obvious. At the worst, one person gets ripped off instead of a dozen.
Just wondering what the logic is behind the current method, considering it's not the SOP on any other forum and has the flaws mentioned above.
Oh the drama of it all. :rolleyes:
Sellers have a responsibility to update their ads with its status of sold, sold pending funds, etc.
Buyers have the responsibility to protect themselves from online fraud. If someone is intent on defrauding you, via a forum sales board, no rule or combination of rules, will prevent it. "I'll take it" has been posted thousands of times in peoples' ads and the phantom "buyers" invariably seem to disappear, leading other REAL BUYERS to believe the item is unavailable.
Since the Marketplace is geared towards people SELLING things, the rules will be biased slightly towards facilitating a sale, rather then allowing people to hinder a potential sale by posting "I'll take it.", and then never completing the deal.
Further, this is a gun forum discussion board with a "New Posts" functionality. When people decide to post "I'll take it"/"Email Sent"/"IM Sent" that sales ad goes to the top of "New Posts". Which makes this appear like one big sales board, which is only a tertiary priority here, and provided as a convenience to our users. Use of this function is purely optional.
The rules we use here are a simplified version of a very large gun board who has probably 100x the marketplace traffic and they seem to get along just fine.
Caveat emptor and use IM/EMAIL and have a good day.
Why can't I post items for sale? I can post replys etc, why can't I post items for sale???
Jay Cunningham
04-15-09, 13:50
Why can't I post items for sale? I can post replys etc, why can't I post items for sale???
***** Posting Rules for the Marketplace ***** (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=21908)
4) Sellers: You must have 30 posts, while contributing positively to this forum community, in order to sell in the marketplace. Industry Professionals, Site Dealers, and Site Manufacturers will be exempt from this rule.
I see one "pro" and at least two "cons", three if you count the confusion created when someone from one of the dozens of other websites that run things the same way comes here and suddenly things are different (as happened to me).
If it's just to sell things, why allow users to post in the equipment exchange at all?
Feel free to use the optional marketplace forum provided for your use. Please abide by the rules posted.
If a time comes where we find ourselves in need of guidance on rule amendments, I've bookmarked this thread for reference.
Have a nice day.
I have bought and sold on this site and TOS and it is up to me as a seller to mark my post "SOLD" or "SPF" as soon as the first email goes in and a deal is made.and I never had a problem with members on this site .Once on TOS I had 4 "I'll Take It"on a item and all four back out.then I had to edit" Back up for sell due to non-buyer.this member sales forum has work well for me buying also ,with no headaches at all.sometimes different is better:D just read the rules that's your guide:)
I see one "pro" and at least two "cons", three if you count the confusion created when someone from one of the dozens of other websites that run things the same way comes here and suddenly things are different (as happened to me).
If it's just to sell things, why allow users to post in the equipment exchange at all?
Just because other forums do it one way, does not mean that it is the "right" way. When using any forums marketplace, it is 100% up to you to read the directions/rules.
Its kind of like going to a different State and then getting a traffic ticket for not following their laws and using the excuse that "we don't have have law in my State."
If you find the the marketplace rules too difficult you to understand or follow, you most likely should stay out of it.
Just because other forums do it one way, does not mean that it is the "right" way. When using any forums marketplace, it is 100% up to you to read the directions/rules.
Its kind of like going to a different State and then getting a traffic ticket for not following their laws and using the excuse that "we don't have have law in my State."
No, it's much more like driving in several states for several years, all with the same or similar laws, and then going to a different state where stop signs aren't red octagons but blue circles with a cross in the middle. Then getting a ticket because you didn't know what in the world a blue circle with a cross in the middle means.
Frequenting dozens of internet forums, it is not practical nor reasonable to read through pages of rules on every forum before making post number 1. Especially not when 19 out of every 20 do things in mostly the same way. Before driving in a state you've never been to, I'm willing to bet you don't order and read up on a copy of their driving regulations. This is because you've driven before and the rules are always pretty much the same.
For the reasons I mentioned before, the marketplace rules here are poorly designed with the only benefit being fewer bumps to ads. Lots of new users who come here and don't immediately "understand" the rules unique to this website won't bother to come back again, and this forum will likely remain in the lower tiers of gun websites (because it's administrators find standardized forum practices "too difficult to understand or follow").
Unless you're using CarrierPigeon 1.0 as your email client and the seller says "no PMs" then I don't see how it's a big deal. Heck you can even send an email right through the forum.
Lots of new users who come here and don't immediately "understand" the rules unique to this website won't bother to come back again, and this forum will likely remain in the lower tiers of gun websites (because it's administrators find standardized forum practices "too difficult to understand or follow").
If by "understand" you mean "read the clearly labeled sticky and follow the detailed rules", then I for one will happy to remain here in the "lower tier". The bigger a forum (any forum) gets, the more idiots show up and destroy the signal:noise ratio. If the marketplace rules weed out some morons, I say stick to 'em.
No, it's much more like driving in several states for several years, all with the same or similar laws, and then going to a different state where stop signs aren't red octagons but blue circles with a cross in the middle. Then getting a ticket because you didn't know what in the world a blue circle with a cross in the middle means.
Frequenting dozens of internet forums, it is not practical nor reasonable to read through pages of rules on every forum before making post number 1. Especially not when 19 out of every 20 do things in mostly the same way. Before driving in a state you've never been to, I'm willing to bet you don't order and read up on a copy of their driving regulations. This is because you've driven before and the rules are always pretty much the same.
For the reasons I mentioned before, the marketplace rules here are poorly designed with the only benefit being fewer bumps to ads. Lots of new users who come here and don't immediately "understand" the rules unique to this website won't bother to come back again, and this forum will likely remain in the lower tiers of gun websites (because it's administrators find standardized forum practices "too difficult to understand or follow").
as loknlod kinda said, so what? nobody wants M4C getting a huge and crazy. it's fairly tight knit, we all know each other a hell of a lot better than anybody on any other site- which means we recognize no-BS members' contributions, etc.
if anything, my only complaint about the sales forum would be that the post-count limit is far too low- i'd rather only people who are actual contributing members be allowed to sell shit here. keep out the riff raff.
Frequenting dozens of internet forums, it is not practical nor reasonable to read through pages of rules on every forum before making post number 1.
Luckily, posting in our marketplace requires that the member establishes themselves as a useful member to our forum community. A threshold being set at 30 posts before someone can post an ad. So your dramatic mis-characterization of our marketplace environment holds little merit, even at the most basic level.
Further, the rules (marketplace or general) for any internet forum should be analogous to the speed limit signs on the highway. Disregard them at the peril of your privileges -- both driving and posting.
Based on the "quality" of your stay on this forum so far, I am extremely skeptical that this concern, or others, will sway any favor with the owners, staff, moderators, site sponsors, or other users.
It's becoming more and more tiring seeing your username pop up every other day with some sort of drama attached to it. For your sake, maybe you should attempt to blend in a little better -- or maybe remove yourself from this environment.
Luckily, posting in our marketplace requires that the member establishes themselves as a useful member to our forum community. A threshold being set at 30 posts before someone can post an ad. So your dramatic mis-characterization of our marketplace environment holds little merit, even at the most basic level. People with over 30 posts rip people off on the internet just the same as people with under thirty posts. It takes an hour of posting to get to that number.
Further, the rules (marketplace or general) for any internet forum should be analogous to the speed limit signs on the highway. No, it is not analogous to speed limit signs. Everyone has speed limits. Something analogous to speed limit signs would be the time limit that you need to wait before bumping your own advertisement on a sales forum. Some sites don't have a limit, some sites say 3 days, some sites say 2 days. That would be like a speed limit, and something I would want to be aware of before bumping my first advertisement. Having a rule that no other (none that I know of) forums have, and which doesn't make sense in a lot of ways, is more analogous to having a "shiny-ness" limit on your car, and not being aware that this rule existed (although the reduction in glare would certainly be helpful in preventing traffic accidents). Since no other state you've ever been to has a "shiny-ness" limit, it doesn't make sense. Of course you could have read through the 80 page driver's manual for that state and known about the shine limit. If you don't want replies in a sales forum then it shouldn't be a forum, it should be a board, where things can be submitted to a list but no responses can be made. It would probably save you some more bandwith too, since that's more important than standardization or buyer protection.
Based on the "quality" of your stay on this forum so far, I am extremely skeptical that this concern, or others, will sway any favor with the owners, staff, moderators, site sponsors, or other users.
It's becoming more and more tiring seeing your username pop up every other day with some sort of drama attached to it. For your sake, maybe you should attempt to blend in a little better -- or maybe remove yourself from this environment.
I like this. My "drama" on this site has consisted of:
1.) Posting to a for sale ad that I would take an item.
2.) Buying that item, receiving it, and finding out the guy had sold me a dead night sight. Then not being allowed to leave the "gentleman" feedback because he had already left some for me... about 2 dozen times, until the thread was locked. So he sells me a dead set of night sights (not only dead, but after talking to the company these 07 dated sites were likely only dead because they were improperly installed, crushing the tritium vial) and you, in your infinite wisdom, decide that I shouldn't be allowed to post feedback for him because he had already gotten my feedback thread locked. He sold dead night sights without mentioning they were dead. Period. That should be mentioned in his feedback.
3.) Posting a question asking about the .308 upper that fits on a 5.56 lower, as seen on the Outdoor channel's coverage of ShotShow. Then you locking the thread and telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. Well, last I checked, that's what a forum was for... the show hadn't said anything about a shortened .308 round, it has simply said ".308 upper that fits on a 5.56 lower". Asking about this, in a forum dedicated to ARs, is a good way to learn about it. So locking the thread and telling me I don't know what I'm talking about does a couple of things: it makes it so that the next guy who comes along with the same question doesn't get an answer to it; and it makes you look like an awfully poor moderator. A moderator's job is to keep a forum going and take care of trouble, not keep people from leaving bad feedback for your buddies and locking threads you don't find interesting. A better solution would be to either say nothing at all or answer the question asked. I simply said, "When is the .308 upper for 5.56 lower advertised at ShotShow coming out?" Since there was a .308 upper for 5.56 lower advertised at ShotShow, this was a valid question. There was no drama until you felt the need to insult me and lock the thread.
4. Pointing out that the feedback forum rules don't make sense, and then stating why, isn't drama either. It only becomes so when you feel the need, again, to post insults and instigate.
So yes, the "quality" of my stay here has been poor, but not because of any drama from me. Not suspending my account for leaving true and clean feedback for the guy who sold dead night sights, and not chiming in with your wit and wisdom to a thread about an upper from ShotShow would have cut the "drama" in half and maybe wouldn't be so tiring for you.
why isnt anyone else having such problems, doot?
edited by me...
Disrespecting mods is not acceptiable...
B
They didn't all start off on the wrong foot with Shivan the super moderator.
i seem to recall starting off on the wrong foot with The Katar... you dont have to like everyone here, just keep your head down and be a valuable member. i suggest leaving this thread and all previous threads alone and starting over.
welcome to M4C
They didn't all start off on the wrong foot with Shivan the super moderator.
Do you really believe this is a wise use of your posting here?
I've now received another "infraction" at M4carbine.net for posting about the marketplace rules in the "Site Questions and Comments" section of the website, and another infraction and 3 day ban for "disrespecting a moderator".
Here's another site comment. If you don't want questions and comments about the website, then don't have a "questions and comments" section. If you only want positive questions and comments, then re-label the section, "Site Questions and Positive Comments".
Wow, that was some comical stuff there.
On the original topic...
I absolutely hate when people post "I'll take it" and "PM sent" posts in BST ads. The only reason to allow replies at all is so that the seller can eventually bump the ad (within the site rules, of course). Questions should be asked via PM and answered by editing the original post. As Shivan says, it's up to the seller to make the proper changes.
As far as fraud goes, I've never once seen a case of online fraud, in all the years of barfcom, where the buyer shouldn't have known better. I got rooked myself once, and I should have known better than to trust the seller,
Then there's the other issue, which is that if you don't like the BST rules here, you just don't use the forum.
I hate speed limits.
I think I'll head over to the county police HQ this afternoon and let them know.
:rolleyes:
John_Wayne777
04-22-09, 13:49
Then there's the other issue, which is that if you don't like the BST rules here, you just don't use the forum.
Oh...Dr. Doot doesn't have to worry about using the forum anymore. ;)
While I must admit the 30 posts rule is annoying to me a new member. I also understand that it is a rule set up by the people who created this forum which by reading and occasionally posting my .02 has greatly improved my knowledge base. Which far outweighs the annoyance of the 30 posts rule. So too everyone who has posted such useful info thanks it is much appreciated. Newbie in Washington
If I have offended someone here, sorry. All I did was ask a simple question. I thought I may have something to offer this forum. If i'm not wanted, say so. I can go elsewere.
If I have offended someone here, sorry. All I did was ask a simple question. I thought I may have something to offer this forum. If i'm not wanted, say so. I can go elsewere.
You question was answered with neutrality, by The_Katar. What could you possibly be upset about in regards to his reply? :(
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