View Full Version : Which rail, I'm torn between 3...........
I can get any of them for about the same price and there are really just two main differences. The troy and Midwest Industries clamp on and don't require removal of gas system, and as such they are mid length rails that would leave my front FSB. The Yankee Hill is a rifle length and would extend over my gas block meaning a new low profile gas block and cleaner looking front end with longer rail.
I'm torn on which way to go. The clamp on ones seem much easier and much less work, but am just not sure they are really a good long term sturdy option. At the same time, I read posts that question YHM quality compared to troy, dd, etc.
I currently have a 12 inch Yankee Hill rail to install that I picked up yesterday, but after sleeping on it and thinking about how much is involved in getting it installed, I'm back thinking about one of the clamp on ones again. So what do you think? What should I do? Give me some additional input to help me make this decision and move on. Sorry for the stupid post.
The Midwest Industries Mid length clamp on one:
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=72
The Troy mid length clamp on version:
http://www.troyind.com/MRFRails.html
The YHM Lite Rails: (scroll down page)
http://www.yankeehillmachine.com/store/forearms.html
Rifle this will go on:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3642/3404153599_279c009552.jpg
Seth Harness
04-16-09, 09:29
First of all, its not a stupid post. A number of folks face this same issue, your not the only one.
I cant say much about the other handguards, but I have had Troy rails in the past and continue to use them. I like the two piece design, though fitting can be a bear. Sometimes you put them on and they're good and straight, other times after installation they're out of line with the upper receiver. It takes patience in fitting a handguard. To insure a good straight fit, Ive resorted to filing my barrel nut in certain spots(not alot mind you, just a little). Once done, its just a matter of basically holding the rail in place while tightening the screws in the clamp. At least periodically checking the alignment while tightening, to insure your not tightening it under a bind or out of alignment.
So, dont think you'll completely miss all kinds of work with the clamp on design. Though it probably isnt as involve as removing the FSB and gas tube etc... etc..., it will possibly pose some more work for you than just popping off your plastic handguards and screwing on the clamp of a FF handguard/rail.
These are just my experiences, others may have different results. I figured it might help you in your decision to hear from someone who has used one of those that you speak of.
For the picking of the rail for particular reasons, thats up to you. Beyond that point, Im sure folks round here will help you through the installation process of whatever kind of rail you go with.
Good luck,
Seth H.
Thanks Seth. I appreciate the input.
My last AR had the 12" YHM lite rail on it and it worked well, but it also came with it on it, so I didn't have to fiddle with the install. Unfortunately, while we have a shop that sells the stuff, we don't have a good option for install really, so I'll be doing it myself, which means having to buy the various tools/wrenches/blocks, etc.
I picked up the YHM and endcap for it yesterday, but they don't sell MI or Troy to compare, so I'm shooting blind here. My plastic hand guards were very easy to pop off with no tools so I have a good idea of what's underneath, but I don't know how I feel about trying to remove the FSB, and reinstall either it with the sight and lugs cut off or another one. I've been told that you should press the taper pins in rather than use a punch to remove and install, so that is part of my hesitance I guess. If using a punch is really no problem, then my thoughts were to remove the FSB, cut it down and paint it up and then reintall under the YHM free float.
That said, there is a fair amount of work and cost involved in my getting the YHM installed versus just taking the dremel to the delta ring assembly and then clamping on the troy or MI rails and just leaving the FSB in place.
My plans for the rail are simply as a light mount and a bipod mount, as well as I just like the looks quite honestly. I also want to try to monopolize on the minor improvement from a free float.
My plans for sighting are right now leaning towards a 1-4 illuminated glass optic like an accupoint if that makes any difference in the decision, but I haven't completely decided between that and an aimpoint, but feel I've narrowed it down to those two types of scope.
The one thing I can't really figure out on the troy is why the bottom rail has that gap on the front end that you can see. It's sort of odd looking. It must have something to do with the way it attaches or something I guess. The MI and the YHM with end cap, have a nice tidy front end by comparison.
Does that help with regards to folks further helping in the process? :D
If you are going with a non-magnifying optic (eotech, aimpoint etc.) then get rid of the FSB it's going to be annoying. (it was for me anyhow). If you are going with a scope of some sort then it doesn't matter because the FSB dissapears with magnification. I started w/ an eotech and ended up with a TR-21r.
Of the 3 listed I would go with the troy just based on reputation. I personally went with the Daniel Defense but I paid nowhere near what they are asking today.
Just my 2cents with very limited experience.
If you are going with a non-magnifying optic (eotech, aimpoint etc.) then get rid of the FSB it's going to be annoying. (it was for me anyhow). If you are going with a scope of some sort then it doesn't matter because the FSB dissapears with magnification. I started w/ an eotech and ended up with a TR-21r.
Of the 3 listed I would go with the troy just based on reputation. I personally went with the Daniel Defense but I paid nowhere near what they are asking today.
Just my 2cents with very limited experience.
Good info. Sounds like a full rail with flip up will be more versatile when it comes to optics.
I looked at the DD omega clamp on, but don't like the fact that the delta ring stays in place and is visible. Just looks odd. Also looked at the Samson clamp on and really like the look but they want 150% more than the troy for one of them and I have a hard enough time spending the cost of the troy rail.
txbond, what color finish is on your upper and lower? I LIKE,I LIKE.
Check out the VLTOR CASV it looks great and functions even better, also its a free float system.
txbond, what color finish is on your upper and lower? I LIKE,I LIKE.
Thanks. It's some type of hard coat anodized finish applied by a vendor to Spikes Tactical as I understand it.
I bought this second hand, so I don't know if it is what they consider their FDE or their OD finish, as apparently they produced limited runs of those two colors.
You can see in this picture it looks more FDE without a direct flash:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24643102@N02/3419389603/
Seth Harness
04-16-09, 10:43
If you are going with a non-magnifying optic (eotech, aimpoint etc.) then get rid of the FSB it's going to be annoying. (it was for me anyhow). If you are going with a scope of some sort then it doesn't matter because the FSB dissapears with magnification. I started w/ an eotech and ended up with a TR-21r.
Of the 3 listed I would go with the troy just based on reputation. I personally went with the Daniel Defense but I paid nowhere near what they are asking today.
Just my 2cents with very limited experience.
I can see where one would agree with you, but I dont think I do. I had no problem seeing through my front sight, or above it. The way I understand a 1x optic to be mounted is to have the irons in the bottom 1/3 of your viewing window. Thus keeping 2/3's of window clear for view of target and dot. Thats speaking in terms of closing the other eye.
Seeing through the front sight post; I have absolutely no trouble at all with using optics like Aimpoint or Eotech in a OEG type fashion, both eyes open. With both eyes open your left eye sees the target and surrounding area with the red dot masked over and into your sight picture. Close your end cap and leave both eyes open and you'll see what I mean, practice this, it will help and become second nature.
Im not trying to be confrontational, just throwing in my 2 cents, if Im missing your point then disregard my claim. :)
YHM Lite rail with spector gas block, endcap, and their flipup sight.
Their product is fairly large in diameter
http://www.pbase.com/shadco/image/111352192.jpg
Check out the VLTOR CASV it looks great and functions even better, also its a free float system.
Aren't those whole new uppers or are those the ones that have a rail that extends over the upper?
YHM Lite rail with spector gas block, endcap, and their flipup sight.
Their product is fairly large in diameter
http://www.pbase.com/shadco/image/111352192.jpg
Thanks, that looks a lot like the one I had on my noveske build that I sold last year like a dummy. Thought I'd make a few bucks and buy another one cheaper this year after the prices dropped. DOH! LOL
Well, now I'm getting a slightly lesser rifle for the same money basically. :rolleyes:
I do like the look of the YHM when you see it like you posted it. How does that specter block work and install? That's the one they sell locally but I didn't buy it yesterday as I needed to measure my barrel for size last night to see which one I needed.
Also, is that the large end cap or small? They only had the large ones here locally.
Seth Harness
04-16-09, 10:59
Thanks Seth. I appreciate the input.
My last AR had the 12" YHM lite rail on it and it worked well, but it also came with it on it, so I didn't have to fiddle with the install. Unfortunately, while we have a shop that sells the stuff, we don't have a good option for install really, so I'll be doing it myself, which means having to buy the various tools/wrenches/blocks, etc.
I picked up the YHM and endcap for it yesterday, but they don't sell MI or Troy to compare, so I'm shooting blind here. My plastic hand guards were very easy to pop off with no tools so I have a good idea of what's underneath, but I don't know how I feel about trying to remove the FSB, and reinstall either it with the sight and lugs cut off or another one. I've been told that you should press the taper pins in rather than use a punch to remove and install, so that is part of my hesitance I guess. If using a punch is really no problem, then my thoughts were to remove the FSB, cut it down and paint it up and then reintall under the YHM free float.
That said, there is a fair amount of work and cost involved in my getting the YHM installed versus just taking the dremel to the delta ring assembly and then clamping on the troy or MI rails and just leaving the FSB in place.
My plans for the rail are simply as a light mount and a bipod mount, as well as I just like the looks quite honestly. I also want to try to monopolize on the minor improvement from a free float.
My plans for sighting are right now leaning towards a 1-4 illuminated glass optic like an accupoint if that makes any difference in the decision, but I haven't completely decided between that and an aimpoint, but feel I've narrowed it down to those two types of scope.
The one thing I can't really figure out on the troy is why the bottom rail has that gap on the front end that you can see. It's sort of odd looking. It must have something to do with the way it attaches or something I guess. The MI and the YHM with end cap, have a nice tidy front end by comparison.
Does that help with regards to folks further helping in the process? :D
I "bobbed" my FSP while still attached to the barrel, just FYI, its not that big of a job. I pulled the barrel off of the upper to do it though. "gotm4" does beautiful work on FSB's, there is a post somewhere on the forums where he shows pics of his work. Absolutely beautiful job. Mine doesnt look that nice, but it does look good and is covered by the rail anyway. So the job can be done with minimal stress, or worry of ruining parts or messing up.
Yes the Troy rail has a gap in the front bottom, and yes thats the result of having a removeable bottom(6 oclock) rail. It doesnt bother me as I know that it has to be that way to function the way it does, having the removeable bottom rail that is.
I to am looking for a 1-4x optic... Am not having much luck finding the package I want, though the (pre) new 1x/4x 32mm optic from IOR Valdada looks VERY COOL.
Good luck man,
Seth H.
I "bobbed" my FSP while still attached to the barrel, just FYI, its not that big of a job. I pulled the barrel off of the upper to do it though. "gotm4" does beautiful work on FSB's, there is a post somewhere on the forums where he shows pics of his work. Absolutely beautiful job. Mine doesnt look that nice, but it does look good and is covered by the rail anyway. So the job can be done with minimal stress, or worry of ruining parts or messing up.
Yes the Troy rail has a gap in the front bottom, and yes thats the result of having a removeable bottom(6 oclock) rail. It doesnt bother me as I know that it has to be that way to function the way it does, having the removeable bottom rail that is.
I to am looking for a 1-4x optic... Am not having much luck finding the package I want, though the (pre) new 1x/4x 32mm optic from IOR Valdada looks VERY COOL.
Good luck man,
Seth H.
If I bobbed the fsp on the barrel though, could I get the barrel nut off to put the yhm barrel nut on? Seems like I'd have to remove it to get all the A2 handguard mounting stuff off and to swap the handguards.
Guess I could bob it and clamp a longer troy rail on, but not sure I want to add a 4th option to my list to torment me further. :)
Seth Harness
04-16-09, 11:25
If I bobbed the fsp on the barrel though, could I get the barrel nut off to put the yhm barrel nut on? Seems like I'd have to remove it to get all the A2 handguard mounting stuff off and to swap the handguards.
Guess I could bob it and clamp a longer troy rail on, but not sure I want to add a 4th option to my list to torment me further. :)
No, you would still have to take the FSB off to get the barrel nut off. The only reason I said something about "bobbing" the FSB, is because I saw in your post you wanted to remove it and cut it down,repaint it etc... Im still speaking in terms of using the Troy rail... I guess Im a little biased.:D
Sorry, your probably looking for non-biased opinions/experiences.
No, you would still have to take the FSB off to get the barrel nut off. The only reason I said something about "bobbing" the FSB, is because I saw in your post you wanted to remove it and cut it down,repaint it etc... Im still speaking in terms of using the Troy rail... I guess Im a little biased.:D
Sorry, your probably looking for non-biased opinions/experiences.
So in that case, which one fits over a mid length system with lo pro gas block? The 10" mrf-mx or the 12" rifle version? If I bobbed my existing sight, I'd want to cover it completely I guess.
A lot of people with much more experience than me don't like YHM rails.
That being said I really like my 7 inch Lite rail. It is a bit bigger around than some others but I find that it fits my hand really well once I put XTM panels on it.
The biggest complaint seems to be out of spec rails. I haven't noticed this one mine, however like I said. I have a much more limited cross section to work with.
Well, I returned the YHM rail and end cap this afternoon. Just decided I didn't want to mess with removing the gas block and stuff, so with that said I'm now down to the option of which clamp on rail to go with, and if I should choose a 9" mid length, or a longer length and bob my FSB to fit under it.
I really like the look of the MI one better, but everyone keeps saying Troy, Troy, Troy. And, the writeup about the troy leads me to think it might be a slight bit more sturdy.
Anyone know if the MI rails have any sort of anti-rotation design like the way the troy rails have the little tabs that fit around the receiver?
I'm telling ya get the CASV-EL system and you wont regret it, I tried all kinds of rails and ended up with the CASV and love it, i wouldnt have nothing else. I like how it (piggybacks) the reciever and raises it a bit so when you add an aimpoint it dont stick up like a satalite dish like most you see.
I'm telling ya get the CASV-EL system and you wont regret it, I tried all kinds of rails and ended up with the CASV and love it, i wouldnt have nothing else. I like how it (piggybacks) the reciever and raises it a bit so when you add an aimpoint it dont stick up like a satalite dish like most you see.
I looked it up, but I'm just not fond of how it looks and I don't like the delta ring staying on either. Just a personal preferrence I guess, but thanks for the lead.
It goes around the delta ring and looks great, it is also a free float system. oh well to each his own. good luck.
http://www.forumjpg.com/userImages/101344738742369.JPG (http://www.forumjpg.com/clicked.asp?img=101344738742369.JPG)
I'm telling ya get the CASV-EL system and you wont regret it, I tried all kinds of rails and ended up with the CASV and love it, i wouldnt have nothing else. I like how it (piggybacks) the reciever and raises it a bit so when you add an aimpoint it dont stick up like a satalite dish like most you see.
How exactly have you tried all kinds of rails? Which rails did you try that didn't meet your expectations/needs and why didn't they?
Seth Harness
04-16-09, 20:47
So in that case, which one fits over a mid length system with lo pro gas block? The 10" mrf-mx or the 12" rifle version? If I bobbed my existing sight, I'd want to cover it completely I guess.
If its any consolation, a 9" Troy covered my carbine length perfectly.
I'll be honest, Im not for sure which one will cover it completely... If you take a tape measure and bump the end into the receiver (where the gas tube goes in) and measure to the far end (front edge) of your FSB, that will give you a real good idea how long of a rail you need. I know it sounds crude, but it will work, cuz all you want to know is how long the rail needs to be to cover your FSB all the way.
How exactly have you tried all kinds of rails? Which rails did you try that didn't meet your expectations/needs and why didn't they?
I have tried the troy rail and yhm and just didnt like the looks of them, they seem to be good quality products i just like the look of the CASV-EL and the way it lowers your AIMPOINT so you dont have to have such a high mount on top of the reciever, i like the low profile look, I also like the durability and free float system it gives you, It does everything i want it to do and feels real solid and light weight. VLTOR is also known for there supreme top notch quality.
First off, what rifle and receiver finish is that? :)
Personally, I prefer to keep things simple. Simple installation, FSB untouched. So Id go for either KAC RAS or Troy. If you want a free-float rail, go for the drop in type like the midwest 2pc FF or DD Omega.
Okay, I've narrowed it down to the Troy MRF rail.
Next step I need help in deciding is whether I should leave the FSB as is and just get the 9" MRF-M mid-length version, or if it makes sense to bob the FSB and get a longer rail with flip up sight, like the 12" or 13.8" MRF version?
They all clamp on the same way, so all I have to do is cut off the delta ring assembly.
The reasons I guess would make a difference other than asthetics are:
-Type of optic
-Sight Radius
-Weight
-Rail Space Needs
-Barrel Length
-Use of Bipod
My answers to those items are:
-Not sure on optic, but leaning towards a glass 1-4, or maybe an aimpoint
-Sight radius would be longer on longer rail, but not sure it matters?
-Definately prefer less weight, but not sure difference is major
-Rail space is least concern as I would only possibly mount a bipod or flash light
-Barrel lenght on current rifle is a 16" 1/7 twist (saber defense I think)
-Bipod - I want a bipod for some longer range shooting but don't think it will live on the rifle.
So, all that said, any opinions on which length MRF makes most sense?
I found some comparison pictures of the two lengths at: http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/weapons.1.html
Next step I need help in deciding is whether I should leave the FSB as is and just get the 9" MRF-M mid-length version, or if it makes sense to bob the FSB and get a longer rail with flip up sight, like the 12" or 13.8" MRF version?
My answers to those items are:
-Not sure on optic, but leaning towards a glass 1-4, or maybe an aimpoint
-Sight radius would be longer on longer rail, but not sure it matters?
-Definately prefer less weight, but not sure difference is major
-Rail space is least concern as I would only possibly mount a bipod or flash light
If those are your answers, then why do you want such a long rail? I have a DD lite 12 with a lo pro block on a BCM midlength upper, and its heavy as shit compared to my 2 BCM midlengths with 9.0 Omegas. Its just my opinion though.
You can see in this picture it looks more FDE without a direct flash:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24643102@N02/3419389603/
Again, just my opinion, but the FDE Omega would look pretty cool with that finish, it seems.
http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=116
(The 7.0 carbine length, they didn't have a pic of the 9.0 in FDE)
Looks like your going to join the mile high club.
Looks like your going to join the mile high club.
Okay, call me stupid, but I don't get it. :confused::confused: Please explain.
If those are your answers, then why do you want such a long rail? I have a DD lite 12 with a lo pro block on a BCM midlength upper, and its heavy as shit compared to my 2 BCM midlengths with 9.0 Omegas. Its just my opinion though.
Again, just my opinion, but the FDE Omega would look pretty cool with that finish, it seems.
http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=116
(The 7.0 carbine length, they didn't have a pic of the 9.0 in FDE)
Yeah, I looked at both the troy and DD, in the FDE finish. I like it, but I don't like the delta ring being on there with the DD omega. Not sure why it bugs me so much, but it does.
That said, I just hate to take a $200 to $300 gamble on color. Without having one on hand somehwere to actually compare side by side with my receiver color, I'm not sure it would match. My receiver, because it's anodized, tends to change colors quite a bit depending on lighting. In a camera flash, it looks gold or bronze, in real life it looks a little like FDE and tan/olive mixed, and in the picture above it looks FDE. :eek:
But with regards to the length and weight comments, I don't know that I want to go with a longer rail. That was the reason for posting this and with the factors I could think of. If the FSB won't be in the way regardless of the two optics i mentioned, then a mid length rail shouldn't be an issue and would be easier too.
Anyone know a way to get a color sample of the Troy and DD Omega rails? At least a real representative color sample? I'm not a big fan of having 3 to 5 different shades of FDE on my rifles. :rolleyes:
I understand you on the color. Just so you know, the Troy FDE is much lighter than the DD. The DD is milspec III hard anodized, so the FDE comes out much darker. Kinda like poop. The midlength I have mine on has a Vltor Emod, Magpul MOE grip, and TangoDown VFG on it, all in matching FDE, and the Omega rail is darker. I don't mind it, I like the contrast. There was a thread on here with pretty good photos of the DD FDE, if you search you'll probably find it. I hope that helps. If the colors matched exactly, I think that would be a badass combo, but its your gun, and at the end of the day all that matters is that you're happy with it.
Oh yeah, and ROADKING, wtf? :rolleyes:
Usualy with most rails if you go with an aimpoint they stick up a mile high from the reciever to get the right co-witness, with the VLTOR CASV system it can still sit low and still get the 1/3 co-witness so the sight doesnt look like a satalite dish sticking up like most do.
[QUOTE=Rider79;351836]I understand you on the color. Just so you know, the Troy FDE is much lighter than the DD. The DD is milspec III hard anodized, so the FDE comes out much darker. Kinda like poop. The midlength I have mine on has a Vltor Emod, Magpul MOE grip, and TangoDown VFG on it, all in matching FDE, and the Omega rail is darker. I don't mind it, I like the contrast. There was a thread on here with pretty good photos of the DD FDE, if you search you'll probably find it. I hope that helps. If the colors matched exactly, I think that would be a badass combo, but its your gun, and at the end of the day all that matters is that you're happy with it.
[QUOTE]
How resistant is the DD omega to rotation? The info on the design of the Troy is what finally sold me, as it seems to really lock itself down to the receiver, and then has tabs to surround the receiver to prevent rotation. I can't really tell how the DD does it other than it grabs the outer edge of the barrel nut, and then has 4 set screws. Do those set screws go into the cogs of the barrel nut, or just tighten up against the surface or something?
Regarding color, if I could get a perfect match, I'd be all over it. I contacted Spikes Tactical, to see if they could do an anodized forend for me to match their receivers. They indicated these were part of a special run and were anodized by the machine shop that forged them or something like that. The color is part of a hard coat anodizing process and would be hard to duplicate for a single item supposedly since these were a special run batch.
But, I think a darker FDE item has a better chance of matching than a lighter one, so I'll compound matters again and put the DD Omega back on the list.
As it stands right now, I think I've decided to stick with the Mid Lenght rail and keep my FSB in place. I think I'm leaning towards a 1-4 optic like an accupoint or IOR or something. I like the IOR reticule.
A matching Forend with black ladders, black stock and black grip would look nice with my receivers I think. Hmmmmmm...........
Usualy with most rails if you go with an aimpoint they stick up a mile high from the reciever to get the right co-witness, with the VLTOR CASV system it can still sit low and still get the 1/3 co-witness so the sight doesnt look like a satalite dish sticking up like most do.
Ah, I see what you are saying now.
Yeah, I just don't like that VLTOR setup. Not knocking it, just don't like the looks and stuff. Sorry dude, but if it works for you that is all that maters. I'm just stuborn sometimes too, so that could be it also.
Then you might as well get whatever rail you can because there all about the same, troy, yhm,..............they all have rails and look about the same.
Usualy with most rails if you go with an aimpoint they stick up a mile high from the reciever to get the right co-witness, with the VLTOR CASV system it can still sit low and still get the 1/3 co-witness so the sight doesnt look like a satalite dish sticking up like most do.
Still don't see your point, but if that's how you feel, fine by me. Never really been an issue for me.
tx, no problems for me on rotation, once its mounted, its locked in tight. I haven't gone to war with it, but I've run it through some drills, it holds up well, and I like it.
"How resistant is the DD omega to rotation? The info on the design of the Troy is what finally sold me, as it seems to really lock itself down to the receiver, and then has tabs to surround the receiver to prevent rotation. I can't really tell how the DD does it other than it grabs the outer edge of the barrel nut, and then has 4 set screws. Do those set screws go into the cogs of the barrel nut, or just tighten up against the surface or something?
A matching Forend with black ladders, black stock and black grip would look nice with my receivers I think. Hmmmmmm..........."
They go against the side of the barrel nut, I believe. Then you have 2 screws on each side to lock the halves together. As for the Troy, if your receiver (or the rail) is out of spec (as was the RRA I had it on) you're going to have to cut those tabs off, which is what I had to do.
If that's the color scheme you're thinking of, go with the Omega.
A decision has been made. I'll update the thread in a few days once I get the new rail and install it by posting a picture. :)
Thanks.
I think you'll be happy with the Troy. I have tried most systems and prefer the Troy to all. I, also don't like the delta ring still on the rifle. The DD FDE is very dark. Not an issue for me but just telling you. I'm not sure there is a tighter lock up for a 2 piece. As far as length, if you are using a RDS or even low powered magnifying optics the front sight is not an issue. I've even had a NightForce 2.5-10 on a rifle with a front sigth and it just wasn't an issue. I have both types. I prefer a fixed front sight base but have about half and half. Just the way some people build them. On my own builds I put a fixed front sight. With a middie you'll have more than enough length without loosing the FSB. It'd really simply a matter of what you like.
I think you'll be happy with the Troy. I have tried most systems and prefer the Troy to all. I, also don't like the delta ring still on the rifle. The DD FDE is very dark. Not an issue for me but just telling you. I'm not sure there is a tighter lock up for a 2 piece. As far as length, if you are using a RDS or even low powered magnifying optics the front sight is not an issue. I've even had a NightForce 2.5-10 on a rifle with a front sigth and it just wasn't an issue. I have both types. I prefer a fixed front sight base but have about half and half. Just the way some people build them. On my own builds I put a fixed front sight. With a middie you'll have more than enough length without loosing the FSB. It'd really simply a matter of what you like.
Are you saying the DD Omega is the tightest lockup for a 2 piece, or that the Troy is the tightest lockup?
Wasn't sure from your post.
The fact that the DD FDE color is darker is a good thing I think given the color of my receiver, but again without seeing it in person there is no way to know what would match.
I should have the one I went with on Monday or Tuesday, and I guess then I'll know if I like it or not. If so, then wonderful, and if not I guess I will make do or sell it and replace with another. Not the end of the world either way.
Thanks.
Here's to hoping for a good match:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3601/3450946232_85697e6c2e_o.jpg
Ended up going with the DD Omega 9.0 in SOCOM FDE. Will post a pic next week of the resulting color match up. Liked the idea of matching color to the receiver, and putting some black rails/panels on the rail for contrast to the other furniture.
Thanks for all the feedback provided in the thread and helping narrow down a decision, even if it did diverge from where I thought I would end up. LOL
Seth Harness
04-17-09, 15:06
Cool, you found one. I hope you get what your looking for, Im pretty sure you'll like DD. Their products are excellent. I had an omega and sent it back because I didnt have a delta ring in place. Otherwise I would have kept it.
I will be of any assistance I can, if you need anything...
Be prepared for strong opinions when asking questions. ;):D
Later,
Seth H.
Cool, you found one. I hope you get what your looking for, Im pretty sure you'll like DD. Their products are excellent. I had an omega and sent it back because I didnt have a delta ring in place. Otherwise I would have kept it.
I will be of any assistance I can, if you need anything...
Be prepared for strong opinions when asking questions. ;):D
Later,
Seth H.
Yeah, I pretty much got recomendations for all of them. LOL I really think the troy and the MI looked nice and I had a heck of a time choosing. But, the fact that the color on this one might be close finally pushed me to give it a shot. I don't think there is enough difference between the MI, Troy and DD versions to really base it on much else other than which looks better. LOL
Well, got the DD today and I'm not happy with it. :rolleyes: The colors are similar, but are very different as you get them into different light sources. Picky, I know, but I'm just disappointed with it. It's hard to show in pictures what I'm seeing in real life with it, but I'm now wishing I had just gotten a black rail instead.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3637/3460091505_85bec811fd_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3460085737_19de5212b5_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3661/3460879916_610c11bb7c_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3539/3460942980_113d4f7993_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3574/3460883780_4eb420b974_b.jpg
In the pictures it doesn't look at off as it does in real life, so I'm sure this makes me look too picky.
Here's to hoping for a good match:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3601/3450946232_85697e6c2e_o.jpg
Ended up going with the DD Omega 9.0 in SOCOM FDE. Will post a pic next week of the resulting color match up. Liked the idea of matching color to the receiver, and putting some black rails/panels on the rail for contrast to the other furniture.
Thanks for all the feedback provided in the thread and helping narrow down a decision, even if it did diverge from where I thought I would end up. LOL
the DD FDE is definately not the common, tan FDE.. "puke" is a better description. your stick looks perfectly fine to me, though, even having a pretty good idea what it looks like in real life... like a lighter milk chocolate color.
all equate to better concealment, which is te whole idea. having varying FDE hues is better camo than just straight up tan. just be glad you didn't get one of almost-black FDE lites.. like i did. significantly darker than my omega. i'm pretty sure i'll be rattle-canning it a lighter color once my effin' barrel finally gets here and i can finish that build.
A few more shots in some sunlight to show the color shift:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3520/3461047062_bdc3300d88_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3524/3461038044_90232ce975_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3618/3460233099_3a61c5d661_b.jpg
Well, now I feel stupid. In all the pictures, the colors don't look too bad, but in real life, the receiver color shifts between a bronze look to a green/tan look, and the rail is not shifting in the same way at the same time. :rolleyes: So, in those cases, it looks different.
Wish I had some black ladders to throw on and see how it changes the look.
Hmmmm. Anyone know if DD sells matching SOCOM receivers. LOL :)
the DD FDE is definately not the common, tan FDE.. "puke" is a better description. your stick looks perfectly fine to me, though, even having a pretty good idea what it looks like in real life... like a lighter milk chocolate color.
all equate to better concealment, which is te whole idea. having varying FDE hues is better camo than just straight up tan. just be glad you didn't get one of almost-black FDE lites.. like i did. significantly darker than my omega. i'm pretty sure i'll be rattle-canning it a lighter color once my effin' barrel finally gets here and i can finish that build.
Yeah, I know I'm just being too picky about wanting them to match. I've got a black LMT SOPMOD stock kit coming to put on, as well as I want to add some black ladders for contrast to both receiver and rail. I have a phantom flash hider to get installed, and also need to find some sort of matching sling to put on it, and then I'm done until I can afford some optics down the road.
Will have to see if the rail grows on me or if I end up changing it out for something different.
Well, good Choice. DD makes excellent stuff.
I have a Midwest FF on my 6920 and am very happy with it.
I have a couple of lower to to build and at least one of them is getting a DD Omega.
You can definitely see the color difference. It doesn't look bad though. It would probably change the whole look of the gun with some panels on it. It's going to be hard to match that upper lower color.
Throw some desert tan rail guards on that bad boy, some tan magpul mags, an fde stock and a tan grip and you will be all set.
Really what are your options? go with a lesser rail cause it matches?
Throw some desert tan rail guards on that bad boy, some tan magpul mags, an fde stock and a tan grip and you will be all set.
Really what are your options? go with a lesser rail cause it matches?
werd.. go with what you got, mang. nothing is going to match exactly- DD's FDE is the extreme, but nobody's FDE matches anybody elses'. I vote for XTM panels in FDE.
I wouldn't say that switching to a black omega or black troy mrf would be a lessor rail would it?
My intention for this one was to have black furniture, not fde. I've already ordered a black LMT SOPMOD kit. The FDE omega was because I thought it was going to be a closer match when I took the chance and ordered it.
However, now that it's on there, the delta ring still showing is bugging me as much as the color differences. The FDE on the rail looks great, but it makes the receiver glow a pimped out looking gold bronze color though. LOL It's the receiver color bugging more more than the rail, but if you take the rail away, the receiver color isn't so bad on it's own.
Not sure what I'm going to do yet, as I'm going to give it a little time to grow on me before I consider changing it I guess.
Just spoke with the ebay seller and he will swap me the black version of the omega if I want, but will also order me a troy or swap for the various DD lite rails that he has in stock also.
The lite rails are nice, but would require removal of my barrel nut and sight block to fit them, which would put me back to what I was trying to avoid, but they are probably a stronger rail system and an ounce or two lighter in the end.
I wouldn't say that switching to a black omega or black troy mrf would be a lessor rail would it?
My intention for this one was to have black furniture, not fde. I've already ordered a black LMT SOPMOD kit. The FDE omega was because I thought it was going to be a closer match when I took the chance and ordered it.
However, now that it's on there, the delta ring still showing is bugging me as much as the color differences. The FDE on the rail looks great, but it makes the receiver glow a pimped out looking gold bronze color though. LOL It's the receiver color bugging more more than the rail, but if you take the rail away, the receiver color isn't so bad on it's own.
Not sure what I'm going to do yet, as I'm going to give it a little time to grow on me before I consider changing it I guess.
The omega in black obviously not.
Imo the Troy would be but you know what they have to say about opinions :D.
I just bit the bullet and snagged a DD lite midlength x in black. It requires changing out the barrel nut but I have to take the YHM one off anyway. I think the DD Lite rail once it's on will be a good solid solution.
Hope the Black Omega works out well for you.
Thanks Shad. I'm sending the tan one back tomorrow in exchange for a black omega. I would have considered a lite mid length, but he doesn't have it in stock.
Seth Harness
04-21-09, 15:43
I think it looks good dude... I'd keep it.
Its not that bad, you'll see a lot bigger contrast with a black rail than that one.
I think it looks good dude... I'd keep it.
Its not that bad, you'll see a lot bigger contrast with a black rail than that one.
Too late man, it's on the way back in exchange for the black omega. I just can't make myself like the DE one. When combined with my receivers, it just looks like a big golden lamp from my grandma's house or something. LOL I know it's silly and petty, but the omega DE color made my receivers just glow golden bronze and it drove me crazy that they didn't match up.
Also, I wasn't trying to make a setup with FDE pannels/ladders and furniture, so right off the bat it was going away from what I was trying to build. I want black furniture on this one, and the only thought with the DE omega was that if it were a really close match, it would look nice with black ladders when combined with the black furniture.
I liked the way it looked in the factory finish with the standard black plastic handguard and black stock, but wanted rails and a better stock and grip. So, I had already dumped the money into a black LMT setup, a black ergo grip and about 18 various mags in black/grey shades. Changing the color scheme to one of FDE on all of that stuff would mean a much bigger cost than just shipping the rail back for an exchange. Make sense? (Those LMT SOPMOD kits are not cheap. :D)
That said, once I get this one all finished up and have the funds for a second one, I may look at FDE furniture for that one, but it will be a while down the road. Where I think that Omega Dark Earth would look nice would be on a set of black receivers, with black barrel. Then get the matching ergo grip to the ergo ladders that come with the omega, and also get a matching DE stock to that grip and rails. That would make some nice contrast I think.
Long story, but in my eyes, the omega Dark Earth was going to drive me crazy, so it had to go. :) LOL
Will post some pics in a week or so when I get the black omega back to replace this one. Thanks for all the tips and advise though.
Feel free to check out all the pics of the DE Omega here for anyone interested in one and wondering what they look like: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24643102@N02/
Should have got the CASV system you can add rails or remove them as you need them and looks awsome and is a free float system. THEN YOU WOULD BE HAPPY.
Should have got the CASV system you can add rails or remove them as you need them and looks awsome and is a free float system. THEN YOU WOULD BE HAPPY.
Dude, you are driving me crazy with this VLTOR stuff. Move along.
My two issues with the omega were color of the Dark Earth and the fact that delta ring is still visible.
How on earth would the Vltor CASV have fixed either of those? The delta ring is still visible on the vltor and the vltor FDE wouldn't have matched either. So that puts me back in the same boat almost, except the guy that I got the omega from only has a black omega to swap me, and not a CASV system.
I get your point about the riser and scope height though, but I'm still not going that way with this build.
All that said, please give me a break on the vltor casv lovin in my thread. LOL
Easy man i am just kidding isnt that what forums are about to have a little fun and get answers for your questions, I dont care what you decide on i got what i like and thats all that matters to me, Good luck with whatever you decide on.
Should have got the CASV system you can add rails or remove them as you need them and looks awsome and is a free float system. THEN YOU WOULD BE HAPPY.
We get the point. You like the Vltor CASV. Alot of other people don't. You've even started threads about your love of it. To the OP, sorry the FDE Omega didn't work out. I woulda kept it and used it as a nice base to paint the whole damn thing. Woulda been cool if it would have matched exactly though. Sorry for my part in talking you into it. Good luck with the black one.
Easy man i am just kidding isnt that what forums are about to have a little fun and get answers for your questions, I dont care what you decide on i got what i like and thats all that matters to me, Good luck with whatever you decide on.
Guess I should have put a few smiley faces in there, but was trying to give you a hard time too. I did include a LOL that I thought would make it evident I was chuckling as I typed it.
hard to tell how people mean stuff when it's typed rather than spoken I guess, but all is good. I was just razzing you a little too for the persistence. :p
We get the point. You like the Vltor CASV. Alot of other people don't. You've even started threads about your love of it. To the OP, sorry the FDE Omega didn't work out. I woulda kept it and used it as a nice base to paint the whole damn thing. Woulda been cool if it would have matched exactly though. Sorry for my part in talking you into it. Good luck with the black one.
No problem man. I thought it was gonna be a spot on match from the pics I found on the internet. The tones were off though, and it just really got to me for some reason. No big deal, as they are swapping it out for me.
Regarding the Omega, I had my reservations at first because I wanted to do away with the delta ring, but after doing lots more reading on it, and seeing Grant from G&R Tactical claim he thought it was DD's best rail to date, I came to grips with the delta ring piece of it and just focused on getting the color I wanted.
So, with a black one, it at least puts it back to the color scheme it had when I bought it, which is cool with me.
Thanks.
SwatDawg15
04-22-09, 12:37
I for one believe in Troy products. The Omega was a no go for me because I hate a freakin delta ring. The Lite Rail is very nice, but My 10" Troys are rock solid and have never gave me a bit of trouble. I put them threw pure hell also.
Most people choose Troy because of the ease of installation. In Your case, cut off the D-ring and your set. I remove, or chop down my FSB because I like a longer rail and flipup Troys.
Troy products are not lessor then anything. They work for perfect for the way they were designed. Common Sense tells us that the one piece Larue, DD , ect., are stronger, but the major difference that I see is the anti-rotation features. However the Troys have two tabs at the bottom to prevent rotation, as well as the teeth on the barrel nut. Once the Troy is installed, and loctited, its not moving, I promise :D
If you like the Troy, go for it. It will make a good addition.'
SwatDawg15
04-22-09, 12:47
Easy man i am just kidding isnt that what forums are about to have a little fun and get answers for your questions, I dont care what you decide on i got what i like and thats all that matters to me, Good luck with whatever you decide on.
The thing is you have a habit of pushing what YOU like on other people. I don't think there is anyone here that don't know the following:
You believe H2 buffers are God Sent, and everyone should have one.
You have a S&W M&P15 and love it.
You think the Aimpoint C3 is just as good as the M/ML3
You think Tango Downs VFG is just as good as the Larue FUG
You love Valor products.
You love typing in CAPS.
You love looking at pictures of gun p0rn.
You do not know what "search" is.
You start more threads then most.
And finaly:
You need to do more reading on things, instead of ask 20 questions, using 20 Threads. 99% of your questions can be answered by a simple search of the topic your inquiring.
So sense we are all kidding around, :D
And finaly:
You need to do more reading on things, instead of ask 20 questions, using 20 Threads. 99% of your questions can be answered by a simple search of the topic your inquiring.
This is the same crap that resulted in his extended "timeout" on TOS before he changed nicks and started posting here. Apparently, he can't take a hint.
Guess I should have put a few smiley faces in there, but was trying to give you a hard time too. I did include a LOL that I thought would make it evident I was chuckling as I typed it.
hard to tell how people mean stuff when it's typed rather than spoken I guess, but all is good. I was just razzing you a little too for the persistence. :p
No problem, Some people take things to serious i just like to make things fun, Life is to short to be to serious.
The thing is you have a habit of pushing what YOU like on other people. I don't think there is anyone here that don't know the following:
You believe H2 buffers are God Sent, and everyone should have one.
You have a S&W M&P15 and love it.
You think the Aimpoint C3 is just as good as the M/ML3
You think Tango Downs VFG is just as good as the Larue FUG
You love Valor products.
You love typing in CAPS.
You love looking at pictures of gun p0rn.
You do not know what "search" is.
You start more threads then most.
And finaly:
You need to do more reading on things, instead of ask 20 questions, using 20 Threads. 99% of your questions can be answered by a simple search of the topic your inquiring.
So sense we are all kidding around, :D
Sounds like your bored and need something to do besides harass people on the forum, I have opinions also just like everybody else and those are my opinions, You need to live en up and be happy and not be so hard on yourself enjoy life and be happy were alive.;) I will be the first to admit i am no expert on the AR but i am alowed to express my experiences with the things i have tried and worked for me. Without postings on a forum there wouldnt be a forum.
thopkins22
04-22-09, 15:57
...I have opinions also just like everybody else and those are my opinions, You need to live en up and be happy and not be so hard on yourself enjoy life and be happy were alive.;) I will be the first to admit i am no expert on the AR but i am alowed to express my experiences with the things i have tried and worked for me.
But you can't/shouldn't make blanket statements that are either wrong or simply opinion...especially with +/- three months behind the platform. You can't ask about an optic/mount/gun, then within days proclaim it as the greatest piece of gear ever to the next person that asks. It's not enough time to figure something out, and you can't possibly have the background to properly compare it to other options.
Without postings on a forum there wouldnt be a forum.
The amount of posts is irrelevant here. Quality first hand information and experience is king...hence the reason I don't post that often on the technical side, unless it's something I have direct and relevant experience with, and even then I generally try and provide a clue as to how I'm using said part. I sent you an IM a couple of weeks back about this.
:D:D:D:D:D Doesnt take me long to figure out what works for me and what dont, I am not a slow learner, Oh well have a great day be happy.
...I am not a slow learner...
The "information" in your posts would seem to suggest otherwise.
Well, I did an about-face today and ended up placing an order for a 9" Troy MRF-M rail to replace the omega. I just decided I really didn't want to take apart the gas assembly if I didn't have to, and the delta ring kept nagging at me also, so the clamp on style troy free float will hopefully fit the bill.
I'm getting a refund on the omega and plan to put those funds towards some sort of optic, but I'm not decided on which yet. Currently considering maybe an H1 or T1.
Seth Harness
04-23-09, 13:11
Well, I did an about-face today and ended up placing an order for a 9" Troy MRF-M rail to replace the omega. I just decided I really didn't want to take apart the gas assembly if I didn't have to, and the delta ring kept nagging at me also, so the clamp on style troy free float will hopefully fit the bill.
I'm getting a refund on the omega and plan to put those funds towards some sort of optic, but I'm not decided on which yet. Currently considering maybe an H1 or T1.
Cool, good luck man. Any questions on the Troy, I'd be glad to help.
Post pics when its installed, Im curious how the receiver and the rail will look together.
Cool, good luck man. Any questions on the Troy, I'd be glad to help.
Post pics when its installed, Im curious how the receiver and the rail will look together.
Will do. I thought briefly about doing a longer one and trimming down the fsb or putting in a lo pro and flip up, but quite honestly until I can do another build down the road, this is supposed to be both a defense rifle and a have fun at the range rifle. That said, I just figured doing just a middie and leaving the FSB made most sense in this case.
That same reason is what has me torn between what sight to get. I really don't think an eotech is up my alley, and at one point thought I wanted a 1-4 for all around use, but now have been looking at the H1/T1 and M3 aimpoints. Still don't know though.
Well, I did an about-face today and ended up placing an order for a 9" Troy MRF-M rail to replace the omega. I just decided I really didn't want to take apart the gas assembly if I didn't have to, and the delta ring kept nagging at me also, so the clamp on style troy free float will hopefully fit the bill.
I'm getting a refund on the omega and plan to put those funds towards some sort of optic, but I'm not decided on which yet. Currently considering maybe an H1 or T1.
I've got three and would buy another if I was in the market for another FF rail. If you go with the H1 or T1 buy it from Larue to get their mount.
I've got three and would buy another if I was in the market for another FF rail. If you go with the H1 or T1 buy it from Larue to get their mount.
One thing I'm undecided on is whether it makes more sense to do a center or lower 3rd co witness. centered or absolute co witness would mean lower mounts which seems good, but with a fixed fxb would it drive you crazy?
I was also wondering if it was helpful to have a xs dot front post to make sighting easier for irons. Was thinking about it not just for the tritium, but for the white dot to help day time sighting and point of aim using irons. Make sense, and would it distract using an aimpoint?
Preferred User
05-03-09, 18:40
On the recommendation from several members I am swapping out to the XS 24/7 Tritium Stripe and the CSAT Rear Sight.
On the recommendation from several members I am swapping out to the XS 24/7 Tritium Stripe and the CSAT Rear Sight.
I like the look of that. So there is no flip up smaller aperature, just the notch and aperature on one plane?
Preferred User
05-03-09, 19:48
There is no flipping between a large and small aperture, just use the notch for close and the small aperture for distance.
There is no flipping between a large and small aperture, just use the notch for close and the small aperture for distance.
Thanks again. I'm going to look into them. Just need to settle on an optic now. Overall I like the way it turned out, but do think it is a little heavy on the barrel end for some reason.
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