man uses .32 to stop robbery; fatal to felon

[LDM]

Last Saturday a Columbia, SC attorney was at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting and a guy came in with a pistol and tried to rob everyone. The attorney (concealed carry permit holder) pulls a KelTec P32 and shoots the bad guy 3 times. Bad guy runs outside and dies on sidewalk. Link to newspaper article follows.

http://www.thestate.com/local/story/751469.html

We debate on this board and others the relative merits of various calibers ad nauseum, and quite possibly this is simply a case of the fabled "Golden BB", but there is no argument that simply having a weapon at hand made a difference here.

Stay safe

[Jerm]

Been discussed here...

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=29494

Unless this is about the fact he used a .32?

I think everyone would agree that a .32 is better than nothing.

[RogerinTPA]

Great story.

As far as the effectiveness of a small caliber handgun is, it has always been shot placement that wins the fight. Growing up in Detroit, I run out of fingers and toes, in the amount of people shot dead by 22's, 25's, 32's and 380's. I bet those calibers are the most used by gangbangers. On the flip side of that coin, I'm sure that more than a few people are thankful and alive today, that they did get shot by one of those calibers. Several foreign governmental agencies used .22 Beretta's for their wet work, for decades.

[RD62]

As mentioned the incident has been discussed, but as to the caliber. I mat argue what is best, but truly what is best is the one you have with you. And I'm not going to willfully stand in front of you and let you shoot me with a pellet gun, much less a .32....


-RD62


Last Saturday a Columbia, SC attorney was at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting and a guy came in with a pistol and tried to rob everyone. The attorney (concealed carry permit holder) pulls a KelTec P32 and shoots the bad guy 3 times. Bad guy runs outside and dies on sidewalk. Link to newspaper article follows.

http://www.thestate.com/local/story/751469.html

We debate on this board and others the relative merits of various calibers ad nauseum, and quite possibly this is simply a case of the fabled "Golden BB", but there is no argument that simply having a weapon at hand made a difference here.

Stay safe

[Ed L.]

As far as the effectiveness of a small caliber handgun is, it has always been shot placement that wins the fight. Growing up in Detroit, I run out of fingers and toes, in the amount of people shot dead by 22's, 25's, 32's and 380's. I bet those calibers are the most used by gangbangers.

True, but you also find more accounts of people who were shot by those calibers without effect, especially shots that bounced off or skidded around the skull.



Several foreign governmental agencies used .22 Beretta's for their wet work, for decades.

Assasination is not the same thing as defensive use against an attacker. The users of the .22 typically snuck up and shot an unsuspecting person multiple times in the head before they knew what has happened. They were not under fire when they did so, so they were able to get close and take near-perfect shots. This is not the same as responding to someone who is shooting at you.

If all you can carry is a subcaliber, it is certainly much better than nothing, espcially when carried in a manner that would not accommodate a larger gun or caliber. But they are certainly not a substitute for a more substantial gun or caliber.

[citizensoldier16]

Oh gods of M4C...please let the flame war stop here.

[Ed L.]

No flame war, just disagreement. Flame war implies name calling and such, none of which has taken place.

I'm glad that the man has successfully defended himself. It's one thing to use a small caliber handgun because it is all you have or all you can carry given your mode of dress (though some would argue you could modify your mode of dress to allow more carry options). I recognize that those situations exist.

But it's another thing to claim that it is completely adequate.

[RogerinTPA]

True, but you also find more accounts of people who were shot by those calibers without effect, especially shots that bounced off or skidded around the skull.

Thanks for that well known fact. That's why I said "it has always been shot placement that wins the fight". I will also add: Regardless of caliber. The same can be said for the "Lerch" who got shot in the forehead by a 9mm. Had he been shot in the eye (shot placement), it would have been a different story. There is no magic bullets.

[RogerinTPA]

But it's another thing to claim that it is completely adequate.

I never said that, or meant to imply it. Just stated a lot of folks aren't walking around, and a lot of folks who are still alive, because they got hit by one of those sub calibers. If that's all you have, you use what you got. Which makes shot placement even more critical.

[gunwriter]

Think most people would be shocked at the number of .32 ACP handguns issued to frontline troops during WWI.

France especially got caught short on handguns and issued over 1 million Ruby type .32 autos. And yes, these went to front line combat units. The Russian 7.62 Nagant revolver is about in the same class as well.......I would have much preferred a Ruby....

certainly no sledgehammer......but......better than a sharpened E-tool to the head....

[Buckshot TX]

Think most people would be shocked at the number of .32 ACP handguns issued to frontline troops during WWI.

France especially got caught short on handguns and issued over 1 million Ruby type .32 autos. And yes, these went to front line combat units. The Russian 7.62 Nagant revolver is about in the same class as well.......I would have much preferred a Ruby....

certainly no sledgehammer......but......better than a sharpened E-tool to the head....

Interesting you bring up the Ruby - I just repaired & restored a Paramount .32acp (one of Ruby's subcontractors) last week. I never realized it before now, but those things weighed as much as a 1911! It would have ranked very high on the trench truncheon scale. The internal workmanship was very crude & actually made a Nagant's guts look somewhat elegant :eek:
As I fabricated, filed & fitted new internals for that ancient Spanish creature, I spent some moments contemplated being a Frenchman faced with clearing a German trench during the Great War. I decided that while it certainly wouldn't have been my 1st choice, that .32 would have beat the heck out of clearing a trench with nothing but a long, ungainly Lebel or Berthier bolt gun! That Ruby might help me stay alive long enough to pick up something better off the battlefield.

[MarshallDodge]

All this proves is that the bad guy ran when he was shot. If he had decided to keep fighting, the results could have been bad.

Of course the first rule of any gunfight is to have a gun, and know how to use it. :cool: