Milwaukee PD's G22 mag problems

[seang]

Good thing it didn't end up even worse for the officer involved. You would think they would have rushed the replacement when the problem was first discovered.

http://www.policelink.com/news/articles/103449-agency-replacing-3k-glock-mags-after-shootout-jam



The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

April 18, 2009

MILWAUKEE, WI – The Milwaukee Police Department firing range will be open around-the-clock this weekend to address a problem with the magazines used with officers’ Glock .40-caliber handguns, according to a directive from Police Chief Edward Flynn.

The department had been exchanging the magazines systematically after detecting a problem last year, but it accelerated the replacement after an officer’s gun jammed during a shootout last Saturday.

A bullet casing jammed in Officer Vidal Colon’s gun after he had fired 13 shots at Louis M. Domenech in an alleyway on the south side. Colon and Domenech were both wounded in the shootout, and both are recovering from their injuries.

Domenech was charged in the matter Thursday.

According to Flynn’s memo, officers encountered problems with the department-issued Glock handguns while shooting on the department range, and the problem was traced to a design flaw in the magazines. The manufacturer agreed to replace 2,700 magazines at no charge.

The transition to the new magazines was being done during firearms requalification, but the chief accelerated the swaps following the Colon shootout. New magazines will be issued to match 600 guns, with the training academy open 24 hours a day through Sunday, according to Flynn.

[woodandsteel]

What exactly is the design problem that they are talking about?

I haven't heard anything about a problem with Glock magazines. Unless it has to do with a mounted light issue.

[seang]

Don't know since the article isn't really specific. I would agree more info is needed, but since glock agreed to replace the magazines I assume there must have been some sort of issue. Maybe something with the springs, but then I would think only springs would have to be sent out. Doesn't say anything about lights mounted on the pistols.

[woodandsteel]

Hopefully, someone from the Milwaukee area will stop by and fill us in.

BTW, that policelink.com site is a cool site. Thanks for posting it.

[firecop019]

The sheriff department here had to switch to the newest generation mags in order to stop the malfunction in their 22's with an attached tac light. The new mags have an extra coil or 2 and added enough torque to the frame to stop the malfunctions.

[woodandsteel]

The sheriff department here had to switch to the newest generation mags in order to stop the malfunction in their 22's with an attached tac light. The new mags have an extra coil or 2 and added enough torque to the frame to stop the malfunctions.


Thanks Firecop, that's what I was afraid of.

We are just now getting lights issued for our Glocks. I'll have to check with our head firearms instructor and see if he has heard about these issues. We currently issue the Glock 22 and 23.

[John_Wayne777]

There has been a ton written here about the .40 caliber Glocks. As a general rule they do not offer the level of reliability and durability that the 9mm Glocks do. This report is the latest in a long line of agency issues with the .40 caliber Glock platforms.

Industry experts and SME's on this site have shared a wealth of information about these issues.

Mag springs, recoil springs, ammo selection, and frequent replacement of various springs have all been posited as solutions to the G22 function issues, especially with a weapon light. These suggestions seem to help in some cases, but not in others.



We are just now getting lights issued for our Glocks.


My advice here would be to refrain from mounting a light to your sidearms until you've had the chance to thoroughly evaluate each and every single issued weapon's performance with the light mounted. In other words, even a sample of guns is insufficient for drawing a conclusion. Every officer's weapon needs to be carefully evaluated to make sure it does not have problems with a mounted light.

The safest course of action would be to completely avoid use of a weapon mounted light with the .40 caliber Glock platforms. If the weapons you are issued are working just fine right now, don't change anything.

[Marcus L.]

There has been a ton written here about the .40 caliber Glocks. As a general rule they do not offer the level of reliability and durability that the 9mm Glocks do. This report is the latest in a long line of agency issues with the .40 caliber Glock platforms.

Industry experts and SME's on this site have shared a wealth of information about these issues.

Mag springs, recoil springs, ammo selection, and frequent replacement of various springs have all been posited as solutions to the G22 function issues, especially with a weapon light. These suggestions seem to help in some cases, but not in others.



My advice here would be to refrain from mounting a light to your sidearms until you've had the chance to thoroughly evaluate each and every single issued weapon's performance with the light mounted. In other words, even a sample of guns is insufficient for drawing a conclusion. Every officer's weapon needs to be carefully evaluated to make sure it does not have problems with a mounted light.

The safest course of action would be to completely avoid use of a weapon mounted light with the .40 caliber Glock platforms. If the weapons you are issued are working just fine right now, don't change anything.

+1 on John's comments. Although the full sized .40 Glock is a good pistol by all industry standards, they do not have the lifespan of the Glock 9mms. The .40S&W requires a more robust platform than the 9mm and Glock essentially retrofitted their 9mm G17 to create the .40 G22 in order to share a common holster and accessories.

If you look at other manufacturers such as Sig Sauer, their engineers did not retrofit the P228 9mm, but instead created the larger P229 to utilize the .40S&W. The Sig engineers found that the stamped two piece slide of the P228, lighter slide mass, and thinner frame were not strong enough to handle the recoil forces of the .40. The P229 has a beefier frame, thicker slide and external dimensions, the slide is about 50% heavier, the recoil spring is approximately 50% stiffer, and the internals are more robust. The H&K USP 40 is also quite robust.

This has been a big problem with many manufacturers over the years. Just because the .40S&W and .357sig can be fit into a 9mm pistol with only some extra milling and a stronger recoil spring, doesn't mean it will be a durable pistol. Many manufacturers have created weak .40S&W pistols for the sake of modularity between their 9mm models, and in order to minimize manufacturing costs. Fortunately, the strong LE market for the .40S&W has helped steer manufactuers into producing more robust pistols like the M&P 40, USP 40, and Sig P229.

[madisonsfinest]

I've had my own problems with my Glock 22, however, it has only been related to the weapon mounted light. Our PD meets with Milwaukee PD, and I've forwarded this along to see if any clarity can be given to this incident.

[tpd223]

FWIW, a stronger magazine springs does not "torque the frame".

The stronger magazine spring feeds the stack of rounds up the magazine tube more forcefully, in the case of the G22 it's an effort to try and have the magazine spring keep up with the speed of the slide as it reciprocates.

The old 11 coil magazine spring fix is years old, and does nothing to help the issue with newer G22s.

This has been an issue at this department for more than a year.

I doubt anyone there will be talking about this much.

I'm not sure that Milwaukee street cops carry lights on their pistols.