View Full Version : Gas vs. Diesel
What do you think will be more available / useful overall?
I'm looking to get another vehicle and can choose from either. (4x4 SUV)
Mr.Goodtimes
04-20-09, 23:16
im biased lol, im a diesel guy :D a diesel vehicle is the better way to go in my opinion, better gas mileage, lasts longer, more power. theres nothing not to like, except that (around here anyway) its a little more then gasoline.
im in college right now, so, funds are a little tight, i drive an old ranger, its got the three liter v6 in it, and its been great. 240,000 miles on her and she still cranks right up every morning, and runs like a champ.
when i finish my degree and am in the military, i want to get what my dad has, a dodge 3500 dually (cummins of course). his is an 08 with the 6.7L in it and a bully dog tuner, and we removed the diesel particulate filter. the truck will do four wheel drive burnouts up into third gear, its pretty sick. i feel like thats a pretty good shtf truck.
the nice thing about diesels too is that, theyll run on damn near anything combustable; so when the diesel runs out theres alternatives.
Look for the movie "The Coconut Revolution", it will answer this question if you really want to know what is the most adaptable to a complete breakdown of industrial infrastructure.
Drove a Diesel for a while. I currently have a gas vehicle.
Gas is quicker off the line.
Diesel was more expensive to work on and alot dirtier.
For serious mud, I think gas would be better (quicker punch).
For commming fuel issues, I think diesel would be better (biodeisel).
Someone will have to run the milages vs. fuel cost numbers. I think they are pricing fuel so that the price per mile are very close.
All told, I think it depends on the vehicle. I am thinking about camper purchase and I am thinking diesel might be better for this function, but my daily driver I like gas.
dont confuse modern diesel engines with the diesel engines of days gone by.
or worse, dont confuse good ol' #2 with ULSD, they aint the same.
The days of pouring "casenhead" into your tank and driving off are gone, modern diesel engines are more finiky than gas engines.
EzGoingKev
04-22-09, 09:41
If you are buying a brand new truck and are not buying something they have marked down because they really want to get rid of it, a diesel engine adds between $8k and $13k to the cost of the truck which means higher sales tax on it and insurance.
Overall, I think gas is your better bet. Especially if you're buying a modern vehicle. All the theoretical advantages of diesel aren't going to be found in an widely available vehicle.
For one, the selection of 4x4 SUVs available in diesel is very limited. A quick check at Edmunds.com shows 4 currently available: A BMW, 2 Benzes, and a VW. All of which are made to let your trophy wife haul your overscheduled kids to soccer practice, not your gear to a bug-out location. High priced, high maintenance, overly complex and not really built for serious off-road use.
If you step back in time a bit, some recent diesel SUVs on the market might be a Jeep Liberty (blah) or the one recent contender I might consider, a '00-'05 Ford Excursion (yeah, the big-ass Super Duty SUV). They had the 7.3L from 00 to 03 and then the 6.0 from '03 to '05. The 7.3L is noiser and has less power but I remember there were some teething issues with the 6.0s. The 7.3s have a pretty solid reputation and they were used for quite a while so parts availability might be better -- there have been a lot of them on the road. It'll probably be hard to find a good low-mileage diesel Excursion for sale, though.
The Excursion might work for a spare, seldom driven SHTF rig type vehicle. I don't think it would be a good choice at all for a SHTF-ready daily driver, unless you're really dedicated to the concept with your head, ass, heart, and wallet.
Gas all the way. Fuel availabilty, parts availability, and in current production vehicles, reliability, are all plusses for the gas motor SUVs -- if you choose the right one.
Depending on your needs for how much crap you need to haul, a mid-size gas SUV would be a better bet for a prepared daily driver. Toyota 4-runner or FJ Cruiser, Nissan X-Terra or Pathfinder, or even a 4-door Tacoma or Frontier pickup with a camper shell or hard tonneau cover (either of which basically converts it to a SUV with a divided cargo area, pretty versatile). All of those are manueverable, have good off-road ability, durable, reliable, plenty of power, and are relatively fuel efficient (your mileage may vary...literally ;))
I think about the perfect daily driver SHTF vehicle would be an '01-'04 4-door Tacoma with the off-road package. Camper shell optional. The 3.4 V6 is very reliable (shop for one and see how many are out there running around with 200k+ miles and still going), the truck is very capable off-road, on-road manners are fine, it's inconspicous, there are many on the road so long term parts scavenging possiblilties are good, they've got pretty solid payload capacity for their size, and there are lots of aftermarket options to customize to your needs without having to engineer and build from scratch.
There are limited choices in diesel SUV's. And the ones that are available are not really meant for strenuous off-road use. They are also much more expensive.
For any amount of off-road use, diesels have a bit of a disadvantage because the engines are much heavier than their gas counterparts.
To get a diesel in a vehicle suitable for off-road use, you have to get a pickup from Ford, Dodge, or GM. While each has it's pro's and con's, they are all much more powerful than any gas engine available. But that power is not usefull unless you are towing or hauling. I use a GMC 1 ton diesel to tow my 13,000 lb 5th wheel. They are also about $7k more expensive than the same truck with a V8.
Overall, I think unleaded gas is more widely available. In cities and urban areas, not every station has diesel. Most rural stations do have diesel for farmers and ranchers.
If I was going to select a 4wd vehicle for general off-road use, my top two choices would be a Tacoma or a Jeep Wrangler. I prefer pickups because of their higher cargo capacities.
There are diesels out there, but it all depends on what you consider a BOV.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/
Coconut Revolution = http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1192286025577999101
Better copy http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9073157933630784238
I suppose I should elaborate. I already have a 4x4 gas pickup, so I'm not going to get another. Problem is, stuffing all 5 people in there is misery. Plenty of room for stuff, though. I'm not going to go 4wheeling in it, I want the 4x4 because I've only used it a handful of times down here, but when I did, it was the only thing that worked. Back up north (where I may end up in a bug out scenario because pretty much my wifes entire extended family lives in one town) I used it all winter long. So 4x4 is a must for me.
I have 5 people in my immediate family, and 3 more who live less than 1/3 a mile away. If I am bugging out, I would anticipate needing room for 8, plus a few dogs and supplies. I can fit everyone in my wifes minivan, but hopping a curb to get out of a bad spot is impossible.
The Ford Excursion is high on my list because of its size. I know alot of people don't like it because of its size, but I don't care if I have to walk an extra 50 feet at Best Buy because I needed alot of room to park. I've read about the 7.3 vs 6.0 situation, but it isn't controlling with regards to any decision.
Regarding gas vs diesel in mileage and costs, I have already done the calculations once before for a VW my wife was looking at. It was a wash, we are talking like maybe $60 difference over the cost of five years.
I am more concerned about availability. Yes gas is everywhere, but if people are evacuating, gas is going to sell out pronoto. Not many diesel vehicles are on the road, so stations should have some, and unless I am mistaken military vehicles are diesel, so I could possibly buy/beg/borrow/steal some from them if it gets bad enough.
I think the only vehicles that fit those specs are a full size, three row SUV like a Suburban or Excursion. Unless you buy a used Excursion, you will only find gas engines. If buying new, I would find a 2500 Suburban (more cargo capacity, more towing capacity, better brakes and transmission). One of the diesel SUVs from Europe could work, but I don't know how much room they have inside for 8 people, plus gear. I guess another option is a 4wd conversion on a diesel van.
I still think there will be more surplus gas than diesel. I live in a semi urban area, and of the 8 I pass between me and the highway, 5 have diesel. But all have gasoline in 3 grades. So, there are 5 underground tanks of diesel between me and the highway, and 24 underground tanks of gasoline. Of course I don't know the total capacity of each tank, but you get the picture.
Also keep in mind that most large emergency vehicles like ambulances and fire trucks run on diesel. And in the case of large evacuations, I would imagine buses would be used which also run on diesel. So do most big generators and service vehicles like utility trucks. Where are they going to get it? The same place the guys with large pickups and RVs like me are going to get it. The goverernment may stockpile some of it, but if you are in line at a gas station and a firetruck shows up along with a couple of patrol cars who gets to the front of the line).
If you really want a diesel, here are four things I would do in order of effort and tinfoil thickness:
Map out the major truck stops along your likely evacuation routes (including alternates). Truck stops have huge underground tanks, and higher flow valves. They can fill a 35 gallon tank in just a few minutes.
Get a membership to Pacific Pride or some other commercial fueiling service. In my region Pacific Pride has numerous member only automated pumps that won't see a lot of traffic by Joe Citizen. The downside is that if the power or phone lines are down, there is no one to pay in cash that will activate the pumps.
Get auxiliary tanks for your vehicle. On my truck, I can replace my 34 gal tank with a 63 gallon tank, then add a 90 gallon tank to the bed. With that much fuel I can drive 1500 miles towing my trailer, or almost 2500 without it. That way I can go a long way without worrying about fuel, and top off when the opportunity presents itself.
Apply for a license to maintain a large diesel tank on your personal property for farming purposes. Rig the tank in a utility style trailer. That way you can put your evac gear for you and your family in the trailer and keep several hundred gallons of fuel in the tank. Then just hook up and take off.
Mr.Goodtimes
04-22-09, 23:37
avoid anything with the ford/international/navistar 6.0L diesel in it. my dad had an 03 f350 with one in it. this truck was babied, from when we bought it new in 03 to when we traded it in, in 08, this truck had pulled our fifth wheel twice. at 60,204 miles the damn thing started self destructing.
the injector pump went bad, turbo housing was loose, all eight injectors needed replacing... there was other stuff wrong too but i dont remember, seems like there was something wrong with the heads.
the truck needed over $10,000 worth of work, so we fixed it and immediately traded it in for a 08 dodge 3500 dually 4x4... with a cummins of course. my dad and i have since ripped all the emissions controll shit out.
buy a surplus hummer H1, perfect shtf truck.
8 people 1 vehicle
Have you considered a military 6x6 truck?
I have never had one, but for the cost I would almost consider it a nice stand by vehicle that rarely gets used.
If you use an older diesel (at least one that does not have all the particulate crap and maybe a generation older -- I am not an expert), depending on where you are at, you can use the heating oil in all your neighbors tanks for fuel (well filtered of course) in a SHTF type situation (don't do it for normal use -- you get caught with untaxed fuel you are in deep dodo). The newer engines with all the crap and extra high pressure might not work on fuel oil, but an older diesel would. Again, it all depends on where you are at. If fuel oil is a common heating source in your area then think about that.
For me there is no choice but diesel.
Mr.Goodtimes
04-23-09, 07:25
i think some great SHTF trucks/SUV's for bugging out would be a ford ranger, toyota tacoma, toyota FJ Cruiser, toyota 4 runner, jeep wrangler. these are all more compact vehicles that handle the trails really well, however, they arent so great for piling a bunch of people in.
i have an old 94 ford ranger that i got in highschool, and its still with me today in college. its a 2wd and its got 239,000 miles on it, it needs some work, however, the trucks been great and ive been considering doing a solid axle swap up front and making it a 4x4 and dropping a small block v8 in it. its a real simple truck and i think it would make a great bug out vehicle.
avoid anything with the ford/international/navistar 6.0L diesel in it. my dad had an 03 f350 with one in it.
You've got some information mixed up. The 6.0 was not available until the 04 model year.
Hummers are cool, but not enough room.
I've thought about a 6x6 truck before, mostly because from what I have read they can run on lots of different fuels. Downside is from what I've read, they are not exactly reliable.
Thomas M-4
04-23-09, 11:24
If you use an older diesel (at least one that does not have all the particulate crap and maybe a generation older -- I am not an expert), depending on where you are at, you can use the heating oil in all your neighbors tanks for fuel (well filtered of course) in a SHTF type situation (don't do it for normal use -- you get caught with untaxed fuel you are in deep dodo). The newer engines with all the crap and extra high pressure might not work on fuel oil, but an older diesel would. Again, it all depends on where you are at. If fuel oil is a common heating source in your area then think about that.
For me there is no choice but diesel.
Steal fuel from your neighbors :eek: WTF that's horrible advice
1st I don't how it is around your neck of the woods but you try that sh*t around
here somebody going to put your dick in the ground for you and take what ever supplies you spent the last 10 years hoarding.
Look you can get diesel delivered to your property in 55 gallon steel drums stored that way it will last a long time all you need is a hand pump to get it out. Just store the amount you think you would need.
Steal fuel from your neighbors :eek: WTF that's horrible advice
1st I don't how it is around your neck of the woods but you try that sh*t around
here somebody going to put your dick in the ground for you and take what ever supplies you spent the last 10 years hoarding.
Look you can get diesel delivered to your property in 55 gallon steel drums stored that way it will last a long time all you need is a hand pump to get it out. Just store the amount you think you would need.
I am not saying steal fuel from your neighbors who still live in their homes. Get real. In a SHTF situation, in those areas where fuel oil is common for heating, there will be a lot of abandoned homes and stuff like that. In a real crisis SHTF type situation. In that case there would be lots available.
In a normal crisis, yes, you can store fuel etc. Which is what I plan on doing eventually (right now in a rental house with no place to store). I plan on picking up 20-30 of the military style 5 gallon containers and storing in that so that I can easily rotate the fuel and also carry and transport it.
Don't quote me on this, but I believe there are limits on how much fuel (especially gasoline) a person can store at a residence. I think the limit is 10 gallons. Who enforces this I don't know. The obvious exceptions to this are farmers or land owners who get special permits for larger tanks, and people who use fuel oil to heat their homes. Also keep in mind that fuel goes bad after a certain amount of time, sometimes just a fuel weeks. So plan on either using the fuel and refilling the cans, or adding a fuel stabilizer.
Thomas M-4
04-23-09, 13:36
I am not saying steal fuel from your neighbors who still live in their homes. Get real. In a SHTF situation, in those areas where fuel oil is common for heating, there will be a lot of abandoned homes and stuff like that. In a real crisis SHTF type situation. In that case there would be lots available.
In a normal crisis, yes, you can store fuel etc. Which is what I plan on doing eventually (right now in a rental house with no place to store). I plan on picking up 20-30 of the military style 5 gallon containers and storing in that so that I can easily rotate the fuel and also carry and transport it.
Its nice to know that you would only consider abandoned homes but from living and working in the gulf coast for years. I was also working in biloxi when hurricane Catrina hit I evacuated but went back a week after and talked to a lot of survivors
I can tell you you better check with that abandoned home neighbors and make damn sure the neighborhood knows what you are doing their and you have there permission.
Its nice to know that you would only consider abandoned homes but from living and working in the gulf coast for years. I was also working in biloxi when hurricane Catrina hit I evacuated but went back a week after and talked to a lot of survivors
I can tell you you better check with that abandoned home neighbors and make damn sure the neighborhood knows what you are doing their and you have there permission.
I am not talking about Katrina. I am talking about break down of society across the board SHTF type scenarios. For long term SHTF type things fuel oil is an alternative. For Katrina type localized things, that would be last resort your life depends on it. For short term crises you should have your own stores etc.
I am talking about break down of society across the board SHTF type scenarios.
In that case you need to form a motorcycle gang or get one of the last of the V8 Interceptors....
:D
Thomas M-4
04-23-09, 17:03
I am not talking about Katrina. I am talking about break down of society across the board SHTF type scenarios. For long term SHTF type things fuel oil is an alternative. For Katrina type localized things, that would be last resort your life depends on it. For short term crises you should have your own stores etc.
In your break down of society across the board SHTF type scenario where have all of the people gone too??
Katrina sure was localized the people that could leave left . All they had to do was go north . How many hundreds of thousands stayed? If it is a break down of society across the board SHTF scenario were are all the people going to be? AT HOME PROTECTING THE ONLY THING THEY HAVE LEFT.
Fuel oil is viable alternative for sure but I would use the fuel oil at my house to get were I need to go. But I for damn sure not going around in a break down of society across the board SHTF scenario scoping out for houses that are vacant to use there fuel oil not without the neighborhoods permission .
If an ENTIRE neighborhood is vacant well that's different.
The point I am trying to get across is that in a SHTF scenario is that neighborhoods get very protective of their property and their neighbors property even if they are not their.
They even have a name for it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8La5xLYo2-s
Thomas M-4
04-23-09, 17:04
In that case you need to form a motorcycle gang or get one of the last of the V8 Interceptors....
:D
LMFAO
Don't quote me on this, but I believe there are limits on how much fuel (especially gasoline) a person can store at a residence. I think the limit is 10 gallons.
I highly doubt that. Most trucks and SUV's have gas tanks larger than 10 gallons.
I highly doubt that. Most trucks and SUV's have gas tanks larger than 10 gallons.
I meant in portable containers, like 5 gallon cans. I've heard that the limit of portable containers is 10 gallons. I believe it has to do with fire safety. A bunch of firefighters don't want to roll up to a house fire when the guy has 200 gallons of gas in his garage. Cars, motorcycles, and RV's are free of the limit as I under stand it. Of course, I've never heard of anyone getting 'busted' for it either.
Depends on where you live. I currently drive a diesel and don't have problems getting fuel since i live in a "rural" area where diesel is very popular. However, I've been in Austin before and damn near ran out of fuel because i couldn't find a station that had diesel. If i'm traveling to an unfamiliar area I'll always bring a 5 gal can with diesel.
MarshallDodge
05-22-09, 13:24
Diesels are a great way to go but like others have said you have to be careful with the new injection systems. Keep the fuel clean and free of water and they run forever.
Advantages:
Simplicity, even with the newer injection systems.
High MPG. You typically see a 30% advantage over the same gas vehicle.
Rugged. Diesel motors are built stronger because of the high compression. The Cummins in my Dodge is rated for 350K miles.
Fuel. Diesel fuel will last longer than gasoline in storage. There are alternatives to diesel fuel including kerosene, heating oil, and biofuels. In the immediate aftermath of a catastrophe I am thinking that diesel will be more available because of the amount of gasoline powered vehicles on the road.
A lot of people in the remote areas of 3rd world countries run diesels so that should give you an indication of how reliable they are. Of course they don't have any of the emissions crap on them that today's EPA mandated diesels have but the EPA won't be around in a catastrophe. :D
Nathan_Bell
05-22-09, 16:43
Avoid ALL of the new gen diesels. They all have issues.
Stick to the older diesels, you can get the power and fuel milage that folks think of when they discuss diesels. The new diesels get WORSE milage in a platform than a gasser will.
Avoid ALL of the new gen diesels. They all have issues.
Stick to the older diesels, you can get the power and fuel milage that folks think of when they discuss diesels. The new diesels get WORSE milage in a platform than a gasser will.
I wouldn't go that far. The newer diesels aren't as efficient as the ones from a few years ago, but they are still better than a gas motor especially when their output is taken into account. Only the Ford V10 comes close in power, but it will die trying to pull like a diesel over the long haul. The discontinued GM 8.1 with the Allison was close but still short of a strong diesel.
Of the post 2007 diesels with DPF systems, the Fords are the worst MPG wise. An in-law has a new F350 SRW and he gets 13-15 highway empty. My bro-in-law gets 17-18 highway empty in his 6.7L Cummins, and my 2008 GMC Duramax gets around 16-17 empty. In town is a good 3-4 MPGs less. My friend has an LBZ equipped GMC (basically the same motor I have without the DPF), and he gets about 1-2 MPGs higher than I do.
I will admit that the older diesels were more efficient. Plus they are easier to chip and tune than the new ones. Far less electronic interference from the computers.
I love my GMC Duramax, but if I was looking for a used diesel, I would look for this in order:
2007 GM's with the LBZ motor. Some of the older GMs are good, but the LBZ was the best of the pre-2007 motors (IMO). They also come with the excellent Allison tranny.
Ford 7.3's. I forget the years that these were made, but there are plenty of Super Duties and Excursions with this motor. Not as powerful, but responds well to tuning and is a good solid motor. Avoid the 6.0, as they are problem prone.
Dodge Cummins of just about any vintage as long as it has a manual tranny. The Cummins is an awesome motor. Powerful, robust, and a torque monster. It also turns automatic transmissions into dust. It wasn't until the lastest generation 6 spd that Dodge could put an auto behind it that would survive. The six speed manual trannies they used were pretty robust and lasted a lot longer than the autos.
You've got some information mixed up. The 6.0 was not available until the 04 model year.
Hummers are cool, but not enough room.
I've thought about a 6x6 truck before, mostly because from what I have read they can run on lots of different fuels. Downside is from what I've read, they are not exactly reliable.
2003 was the transition year from the 7.3L to the 6.0L and in 2003 you could purchase both Excursions and SuperDuty trucks with one or the other. Once the 7.3L engines were used up in mid 2003, they were no longer available.
I own a 2000 Ford Excursion 7.3L that my wife drives. I took it this past weekend kayaking and put 3 kayaks inside it and 2 men and one 13 year old. I tow my 28 foot trailer with it, trailer and sled pulling truck and all the other junk on the trailer go about 12,000 lbs. It is nice to be able to tote the trailer and the entire family plus more in the rear storage area with my "SUV".
I also own a 2005 Dodge crew cab with 8' bed and a Cummins. I hate it with all my heart and soul. Both of my diesels are modded, the Ford has never missed a beat. The Dodge has melted two engines in 18 months. Did I mention I hate this thing?
MarshallDodge
05-27-09, 15:25
The Dodge has melted two engines in 18 months. Did I mention I hate this thing?
You play, you pay. ;)
I have never seen a 7.3 that could hold a candle to the Cummins in towing or longevity but it sounds like you are one of the lucky ones.
I have the Edge Juice/Attitude on my Dodge. It is not a serious box but I like the defueling feature = no meltdown.
I agree the 7.3L is not as fast nor will make the power of the cummins, but the 7.3 seems to be an anvil of an engine.
I smited the first Cummins with a Smarty Revolution tuner and it was replaced under warranty. New crate engine. 6 months later using a BullyDog with the "Scary Larry" tune I melted that crate engine and I never took it to Dodge. I sleeved 2 holes, put in 120# Hamilton Diesel valve springs, stage 2 Hamilton cam, 100HP injectors, ballanced the rotating assembly and since then I have maybe put 3K miles on it. During this 18 month period I broke the input shaft and replaced it with billit, broke the output shaft and replaced both the intermediate and output with billit. I also wiped out 5 sets of over drive clutches, and that was in a built trans with Alto Red Eagle clutches, Dunrite valve body, and TCS triple disk billet convertor. Each trans failure cost me about a grand in parts, not counting the 3 shafts at $650 for input and about a grand each for intermediate and output shafts.
I have spent about 30 grand repairing this truck in less than 2 years. I'm scared to drive it now! I can't afford to fix it!
The Ford has been modded front to back since a week after I got it. I had to change 2 batteries and an alternator so far, plus 3 sets of ball joints.
Nathan_Bell
05-27-09, 20:09
I wouldn't go that far. The newer diesels aren't as efficient as the ones from a few years ago, but they are still better than a gas motor especially when their output is taken into account. Only the Ford V10 comes close in power, but it will die trying to pull like a diesel over the long haul. The discontinued GM 8.1 with the Allison was close but still short of a strong diesel.
Of the post 2007 diesels with DPF systems, the Fords are the worst MPG wise. An in-law has a new F350 SRW and he gets 13-15 highway empty. My bro-in-law gets 17-18 highway empty in his 6.7L Cummins, and my 2008 GMC Duramax gets around 16-17 empty. In town is a good 3-4 MPGs less. My friend has an LBZ equipped GMC (basically the same motor I have without the DPF), and he gets about 1-2 MPGs higher than I do.
I will admit that the older diesels were more efficient. Plus they are easier to chip and tune than the new ones. Far less electronic interference from the computers.
I love my GMC Duramax, but if I was looking for a used diesel, I would look for this in order:
2007 GM's with the LBZ motor. Some of the older GMs are good, but the LBZ was the best of the pre-2007 motors (IMO). They also come with the excellent Allison tranny.
Ford 7.3's. I forget the years that these were made, but there are plenty of Super Duties and Excursions with this motor. Not as powerful, but responds well to tuning and is a good solid motor. Avoid the 6.0, as they are problem prone.
Dodge Cummins of just about any vintage as long as it has a manual tranny. The Cummins is an awesome motor. Powerful, robust, and a torque monster. It also turns automatic transmissions into dust. It wasn't until the lastest generation 6 spd that Dodge could put an auto behind it that would survive. The six speed manual trannies they used were pretty robust and lasted a lot longer than the autos.
The 6.7 Cummins has massive computer/sensor issues. I swipe one when I have to tow Heavy loads and it has not made it through a trip without throwng a light on. Guy I grew up with is a Cummins certed Dodge dealer mechanic and he has more hours working diagnostics on the post '07 motors than he has on the 12v or the 24v 5.9L. Half the time he cannot find anything wrong to have triggered the computer blues. My buddy who owns his has the paperwork history to get it lemoned, but of course Chrysler is not bound by that any longer so he will run it till the warranty is gone and then rip all of the BS off and run it till it dies.
The 6.4 PS has QC issues through out it. Less sensor issues, but there have been numerous stories of valve train issues and EGR. Also have heard some DPF issues, the system goes into regen and will not come out until dealer level computer is hooked to it.
The Duramax's I have never really paid much attention to. I know two folks who have them one loves his, one wants to burn his to the ground. He is currently trying to get Chevy to buy his back, but he assumes that they will go the way of Chrysler RE Lemon Laws.
For a BOV light duty truck I would go 5.9L Cummins 12V; 7.3 that has the 444e fuel system on it, get rid of the deadhead cylinder; 5.9L Cummins 24V; All are stone simple for a diesel wrench to diagnose and fix.
RE: Milage put less than 6k behind them and the gassers will be cheaper to run for most hauls. Break that level and the diesles still are going to do better but not as well as once was the case.
My '02 250 got 16.4MPG that is with a 6" lift and 36" tires on it. It also put 350 rwhp down. Neighbor's '05 Dodge with the same amount of lift and about 375hp would get 18-19mpg. YOu do not get that factory now. Put a 10k load behind mine and it dropped to 14 mpg. we put 12k behind the '07 dodge and it got 9 mpg.
I can go into these same motors being used in medium duty applications and being fuel sucking boat anchors as well.
I stand by my statement to avoid all new gen diesels for a vehicle that you would bet your survival on.
My BOV has a 352 CID TD in it. Other than the 44mm socket needed to turn the damned driveshaft to set the valves, any diesel tech can wrench on it and have the tools to do so.
MarshallDodge
05-27-09, 21:22
I agree the 7.3L is not as fast nor will make the power of the cummins, but the 7.3 seems to be an anvil of an engine.
I smited the first Cummins with a Smarty Revolution tuner and it was replaced under warranty. New crate engine. 6 months later using a BullyDog with the "Scary Larry" tune I melted that crate engine and I never took it to Dodge. I sleeved 2 holes, put in 120# Hamilton Diesel valve springs, stage 2 Hamilton cam, 100HP injectors, ballanced the rotating assembly and since then I have maybe put 3K miles on it. During this 18 month period I broke the input shaft and replaced it with billit, broke the output shaft and replaced both the intermediate and output with billit. I also wiped out 5 sets of over drive clutches, and that was in a built trans with Alto Red Eagle clutches, Dunrite valve body, and TCS triple disk billet convertor. Each trans failure cost me about a grand in parts, not counting the 3 shafts at $650 for input and about a grand each for intermediate and output shafts.
Larry, you make it sound like it's the Dodge/Cummins fault but you nearly doubled the output of the motor with mods and obviously ran the EGT's through the roof. I guarantee that your 7.3 isn't making nearly the power. Did you upgrade your turbo while you were at it? I would have gone with twins at that point. More fuel needs more air. :D
My neighbor has the newer 6.7/6-speed auto Dodge and loves it. The DPF catalytic system "fell off" and he put an Edge box on his. He pulls a massive three axle toy hauler with it.
I agree that the old 12V motor was a reliable workhorse, I am looking for one for my son to drive.
The first engine that died was as follows:
Straight pipe 4" exhaust
AFE Intake
CFM+ Intake Elbow
Smarty Revolution programmer
Quadzilla digital guage system
Snow Performance Water/Meth injection (Stage 2 system)
Nothing hot, and I use the Snow system to fight EGT's. I dropped a valve in #2 and split that piston in half. I was at OEM redline.
Engine #2 seen a change from the Smarty to the Bullydog Triple Dog. No other changes. Still a mild build. I was at 1335°F when that engine locked up and burnt holes in pistons #3 and #4. This did a best of 12.7 in the quarter.
This latest build has the Hamilton Diesel valve springs, stage 2 camshaft, and a Industrial Injection Silver 64 with +100 HP injectors. I expect to see about 700 rear wheel HP when I get to a dyno. I expect mid to low 12's.... and if it shocks me... maybe high 11's.... but I expect I will need a shot of drugs to get 11's out of this pig.
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