View Full Version : 10.5" or 12.5" SBR?
I want to have "one" AR as kind of a do it all gun.(plinking, HD, etc.) My range goes to 400 yards but I rarely shoot that far. Most of my shooting is
20-200 yards. It will have an EOTech on it for now and I plan on getting a 1-4x scope. I also plan on getting a suppressor for it. What do you think?
I have a 10.5 that I use most of the time, but I also have lots of longer barrel uppers. If you just want one, I would pick a 16 inch with a mid-length gas system. But if the choice is 10.5 or 12.5, then I would say the 12.5.
I've heard nothing but good things about Noveske's 12.5" Crusader line of barrels. Perhaps someone more knowledgable than myself can explain the difference in the gas systems between a 10.5" and 12.5", but I've been told there is a reliability difference under certain conditions. Maybe one of the gurus here can confirm or deny this.
AFAIK the crusader barrels all have a carbine length gas system (similar to 10.5"s).
Derek_Connor
01-01-07, 22:37
I cannot recommend the 12.5 barrel enough. The accuracy of this barrel is something I would have never expected. Everytime I go to the range, I grab this weapon, in fact, I grabbed it today over the SPR to take to the range.;)
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8533/receiptforconnorderek8njf6.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4967/receiptforconnorderek8nqt4.jpg
Very nice. I would like one. Though why not expect great accuracy? Noveske is high quality and shorter barrels are generally more accurate than longer barrels, all else being equal.
Army Chief
01-02-07, 03:00
Pardon my ignorance, but I've seen a lot of recent discussion about various SBR barrel lengths on the boards (10.3, 10.5, 12.5 ...), and no one seems to be mentioning the original/factory Commando length of 11.5.
Is there some reason why 11.5 isn't viewed as the de facto standard in short-barrels? Given all of the R&D Colt has put into this over the years, and the large number of units fielded, I would have expected more folks to be embracing it -- if for no other reason, then simply because of parts availability and it's a known configuration recipe that works well.
Is there perhaps some downside to 11.5, or are there other factors to consider with the latest gas blocks, suppressors, and such? I'm interested in getting back into Class III ownership at some point with an SBR, but I think my first instinct would be to "go Commando."
Chief
Chief-
I'm a fan of the factory 11.5" as well. I already own one 6933 and another is sitting in my dealer's safe waiting for the ATF to bless me again. I personally think that it's a good compromise length in terms of compactness vs. reliability.
Interestingly, the shortest barrel that an Ops 15th model (I think it's the 15th, I'm sure bigbore will correct me if I'm wrong) will fit on without extension is the 11.5". If you mount it on a 10.5" you need an adapter that essentially makes it into an 11.5" barrel.
I have no idea why Noveske chose to make their barrels 12.5", but they definately seem to know what they're doing so I'm sure there was a good reason. If it turns out that my stock "pencil" barrel on my 6933 isn't a good host for the 15th model that I'm likely going to end up with, I'll opt for the Noveske. Not due to length, but due to rigidity.
In general though, I think that the reason you don't see more about the 11.5" is because nobody outside of Colt is making them, and finding the factory barrels in that length isn't exactly common. When they are found, they aren't exactly cheap, $495 from SAW (http://www.specializedarmament.com/products/BARREL_FRONT_SIGHT_ASSY_R0933_1_7_LWT_11_5in_CHROME_LINED-70-4.html) for example. Compare that to a Noveske (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?domain=noveskerifleworks.com&cat=17) 10.5" for $285 or a 12.5" for $330 and it's easy to see why somone would opt for a length other than 11.5". CMMG (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?domain=noveskerifleworks.com&cat=17) does appear to offer an 11.5" barrel in "government profile" for $250, and Bushmaster (http://bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/abbl11.5a.asp) appears to sell an HBAR profile 11.5" for $225, so those may be lower cost options for some.
I have never seen or heard even one expert tell that 1" of extra barrel makes a bit of difference. I can also read reports of guys having problems with 11.5"'s so they are not the end all answer to SBR AR issues.
That's why I went with a LMT 10.5". Why not go as short as short as reliably will allow? We also know the 10.5” is in service in large numbers.
That's why I went with a LMT 10.5". Why not go as short as short as reliably will allow? We also know the 10.5” is in service in large numbers.
It would appear by all reports that the Noveske 7.5 with "fire breathing pig" runs reliably as well, so why not go with that?:D
Any idea what your barrel with FSB weighs? What profile is it (lightweight, GI, HBAR)? I'd be curious to know if that particular 10.5 weighed in heavier or lighter than my 11.5" 6933 barrel.
Any idea what your barrel with FSB weighs? What profile is it (lightweight, GI, HBAR)? I'd be curious to know if that particular 10.5 weighed in heavier or lighter than my 11.5" 6933 barrel.
No, I've never bothered to weight my set-up.
It's a standard LMT 10.5" barrel w/ pinned LaRue low profile gas block, LaRue 9.0 rail, and fixed LMT front sight.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/2006_0609LMT0009.jpg
Mine:
http://www.silencertests.com/albums/LMT/IMG_0802.jpg
w/ pinned LaRue low profile gas block
Is LaRue making a new gas block (with pin) or is this a custom job that a gunsmith did?
If it's a custom job could you give the details (ie. how many pins, were they are located, etc) and who did the work?
Thanks,
Jeff
I've put together several AR's and M16's with 11 1/2 inch Bushy uppers. Flawless operation, excellent handling, hit steel at 300.
Is LaRue making a new gas block (with pin) or is this a custom job that a gunsmith did?
If it's a custom job could you give the details (ie. how many pins, were they are located, etc) and who did the work?
Thanks,
Jeff
Adco did the work. It's just a standard LaRue low profile gas block. The only difference is mine was drilled / pinned / welded in place like a brake. It cost me all of $25. I still need to get the same thing done to my 14.5".
Dinger,
Thanks for the info!
I'm a big fan of the 12.5. My Crusader is my favorite Noveske barrel. It is a little different that my others in that it is a medium contour with 1/8 twist and the killer Noveske 17-4 SS pinned gas block.
I like the balance of this rifle. With the LT Stealth upper it is very accurate, a measurable amount more than the first upper I had it in. On my PACT chrony, with M885 it is within 30 fps +/- of a Colt 14.5" CM barrel. (VERY unscientific so don't even start. Just saying with MY barrel. :p )
It is my home gun. Ignore the Bacon Pirate sticker if you don't recognize what it is.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/conndcj/BDF006.jpg
I have never seen or heard even one expert tell that 1" of extra barrel makes a bit of difference. I can also read reports of guys having problems with 11.5"'s so they are not the end all answer to SBR AR issues.
That's why I went with a LMT 10.5". Why not go as short as short as reliably will allow? We also know the 10.5” is in service in large numbers.
That 1" of barrel increases the almost non existent dwell time as well as increases back pressure. I think from an operational standpoint it is probably moot but on paper their absolutely is a difference.
cohiba, what length rail is that?
How well would the Stainless Noveske hold up compared to a Chrome Lined barrel? It seems like the short barrel would not be a good use of stainless since accuracy is not usually the primary concern for a SBR...but rapid sustained fire would be.
The FN 308 FBI rifles are chrome-lined and they seem accurate.
I've heard that Noveskes settling on the 12.5 was fairly accidental, although I'd say they are really on to something. A little more dwell time, yet shorter than an M4, and long enough to mount OPS and SF cans. I want one.
Consider that a 10.5 with a KFH is 1 inch shorter than the 12.5 with an A2, and the 12.5 is much cheaper. That ought to settle the issue.
As for durability, I've heard very good things but havewn't done the leg work myself. The biggest problem with SS barrels is that you need to use a heavier profile than you would with some other materials.
The biggest problem with SS barrels is that you need to use a heavier profile than you would with some other materials.
This is my understanding as well. Part of the reason I use an 11.5" 4150 chrome lined "pencil" barrel is that you can't get one as light in SS.
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