View Full Version : Glaser Blue Safety Ammo in .32 ACP, good/bad idea?
I'm looking for some ammo for my wifes new pistol, Beretta Tomcat .32ACP, and I see this stuff and wonder if its better than Federal Hydroshock for her defense? If ya'all feel this stuff is Poo-Poo, what's a good ammo to load her 7 rnd Beretta with? I'm not looking for humanitarian ammunition, I'm looking for human tearing ammo to be used to protect my loved one in the unlikely event of an attack on her.
Not that an excuse to carry is needed, but my wife travels from home to home helping poor elderly folks, like a direct care worker, but in your home and only for a couple hours per "client". Many times she is in very low income areas, and even though her employer is anti firearm 100%, I feel and convinced her that having a little secret in her purse is worth the risk over the alternative..... potential rape or murder.
It lacks penetration for any serious use. A friend who carries a P32 Keltec as a BUG actually switched from Gold Dots to FMJ, because even the majority of the good HPs (Speer GD, Hornady, Hydra Shock) don't reliably expand and usually lack the minimum 12" of penetration in ballistic gelatin. From what I've read, those exotic rounds like the Glasers, penetrate only a fraction of what even the decent HP will manage to do.
The minimum requirement for an effective defense load is that it penetrates up to 12" in properly calibrated ballistic gel. There is no Glaser ammunition that can do this. Most of them only penetrate 4-5" in gel.
In regard to .380acp JHPs, many of them are not engineered well. The .380acp cannot expand to 9mm levels and still penetrate up to 12".......it doesn't have enough momentum, nor enough sectional density. Most .380acp JHPs only penetrate up to 7" in gel meaning that the bullet may not have any lethal effects on a bad guy if they are fat, you shoot them through their arm, or if you should hit them at a angle to cause deflection off the rib cage.
The only JHP that comes close to the 12" penetration mininum is the Hornady 90gr XTP JHP. It routinely penetrates around 11" in gel because the Hornady engineers designed it to only expand to around .45-.50". Personally, I consider this to be the best overall load for the .380acp. Certainly not worthy of a duty caliber, and like all .380acp loads it sucks when trying to shoot through windshields, but the best overall load in terms of good penetration and expansion.
I do agree with Trempel. If you can't find the Hornady load, then use a FMJ loading. Try to find one with a flat point if possible. A flat point acts like a semi wadcutter and will crush more tissue as the bullet penetrates instead of just pushing it aside as round nosed handgun bullets tend to do.
Glaser: When you absolutely positively must leave your opponent alive.
Just say no.
John_Wayne777
04-25-09, 11:34
I'm looking for some ammo for my wifes new pistol, Beretta Tomcat .32ACP, and I see this stuff and wonder if its better than Federal Hydroshock for her defense? If ya'all feel this stuff is Poo-Poo, what's a good ammo to load her 7 rnd Beretta with?
The biggest concern for a .32 is penetration. A high quality, reliably functioning FMJ load would be my choice in a .32 ACP. The Glaser stuff is just horrid....especially in mouseguns.
*smacks forehead*
Disregard my previous post. For some reason I thought you were referring to the .380acp. As for the .32acp DO NOT use JHPs......especially not Glaser. The penetration ability of the .32acp is far too shallow with expansion loads or fragmenting loads. The only way to get reliable penetration from the .32acp is to use FMJ ammunition. Once again, try to get a flat point for better tissue crushing effect.
Am I going to have to bust out my Glaser .357 Mag v. dog story again...?! Glaser's, and anything like them, are garbage in any caliber.
Honestly Larry, I recommend replacing the .32 with a more serviceable caliber -- at least 9mm or .38 Special. There's no .32 round in existence in which I'd willingly entrust anyone's life.
I'm looking for some ammo for my wifes new pistol, Beretta Tomcat .32ACP, and I see this stuff and wonder if its better than Federal Hydroshock for her defense?
.32 ACP is a bad idea...The best way to make the .32 ACP even more worthless, would be to use Glaser. You must not care much about your wife...:D
But seriously, the .32 ACP is only slightly better then throwing rocks, small rocks at that, and considering how many very small low recoil 9mms exist today, I wouldn't allow anyone I cared about to carry anything less. My GF just got her CCW and first gun, and 9mm is the min SD rnd (.380 if you really wanna push it) but .32 is a no no.
Good luck.
woodandsteel
04-25-09, 13:24
]*smacks forehead*[/B]
Disregard my previous post. For some reason I thought you were referring to the .380acp. As for the .32acp DO NOT use JHPs......especially not Glaser. The penetration ability of the .32acp is far too shallow with expansion loads or fragmenting loads. The only way to get reliable penetration from the .32acp is to use FMJ ammunition. Once again, try to get a flat point for better tissue crushing effect.
I wouldn't worry about it too much, Marcus. I have been planning to ask a question about a good ammo option for my .380 LCP. But, you seemed to answer that question pretty well. Thank you.
As for the Glaser, I never understood the big deal about them. I have two friends who bought S&W J Frames. They both wanted to carry Glasers in them. I told them, that in my opinion, they were limiting themselves.
For a .32. I would shoot FMJ's.
Can we please stop with the "no mouseguns!" crap?
Really, do you think the OP believes his wife's .32 is a zombie slaying hand cannon? Do you think he's oblivious to the fact that it's below the typical gunfighter threshold?
We get it. The .32 is not going to disintegrate BGs. It may not do the job against a highly motivated opponent.
It is still much better than no gun at all. So if the size or function of a little .32 is what she'll carry every day, it beats the crap out a .38 or 9mm that she won't.
No better than throwing rocks? I hope your jury doesn't find out you said that if you ever shoot someone who was pointing merely a .32 at you ...
I am aware of the smaller caliber and its limitations in defending against a motivated attacker. I also know that bad guys can range in physical size from large to small and also multiples.
My wife could never comfortably carry something like my Glock. She is is an average smaller framed 5 foot 4 inch female. I wanted this gun because she may actually learn to accept it BECAUSE of its small size. Plus I lik the Beretta model 21 and have owned one in .22 for 20 years. it I a great pockt gun.
Can we please stop with the "no mouseguns!" crap?
Really, do you think the OP believes his wife's .32 is a zombie slaying hand cannon? Do you think he's oblivious to the fact that it's below the typical gunfighter threshold?
We get it. The .32 is not going to disintegrate BGs. It may not do the job against a highly motivated opponent.
It is still much better than no gun at all. So if the size or function of a little .32 is what she'll carry every day, it beats the crap out a .38 or 9mm that she won't.
Sorry brother but, I just can't do it. My conscience won't let me. Larry's OP reads in part:
I'm not looking for humanitarian ammunition, I'm looking for human tearing ammo to be used to protect my loved one in the unlikely event of an attack on her.
There simply is no .32 load that meets a reasonable definition of that criteria. If the .32 fails to stop an attacker in time it's actually not better than the proverbial "no gun at all". The end result being the same: an unstopped attacker. Although Larry does acknowledge the "limitations" of the .32, I personally feel I would be remiss in not reiterating the point; especially since Glaser's were mentioned in the mix.
Plus I lik the Beretta model 21 and have owned one in .22 for 20 years. it I a great pockt gun.
It is a great pocket gun, just not a great caliber.
Realizing the user is a woman that is not desiring to carry a large and heavy pistol, I felt I got the best compromise of purse/pocket size. My experiance with my model 21 proves the pistol to be a durable and dependable design that can last many years of use. I have no idea how many hundreds upon hundreds of rounds I had put down the barrel of that .22L that I have, but it has never needed repair and only experianced a few isolated FTF issues that were related to certian ammo. Other than that, the little thing is a tank. I carried it many, many times when the Glock was not practical and it shows little wear.
So I understand it to be the general thought that a flat nosed FMJ would be the best option. I will go that way.
Thank you for yor input. I asked for input and realized that not everyone would appreciate my choice in firearms, but that means little to me. We all make our choices... no harm, no foul.
Jim from Houston
04-26-09, 01:51
If you're looking for a flat-nosed round in .32ACP, Buffalo Bore makes one...I don't know if such a round would have trouble feeding from a magazine, but with the tip-up barrel of the Beretta, you could always load the flat nose in the chamber and then have something like Fiocchi FMJ (which Beretta .32's shoot well) in the magazine...don't normally like to mix ammo, but, you know, with a .32 you've got to try to get every inch more performance you can...teach the person who will carry this pistol to aim it well...a .32 isn't much, but hey, a .32 to a bad guy's eye socket is still better than pepper spray, right?
Here's Buffalo Bore's interesting .32 flatnose...I can in NO way vouch for reliable feeding from a magazine...small pistols tend to be finicky, so be careful...
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=132
If the .32 fails to stop an attacker in time it's actually not better than the proverbial "no gun at all".
You're assuming a conclusion and then working backwards to prove your conclusion.
Both larry and I have acknowledged that it's not the most deadly thing out there. In fact, both of us have commented that it's sub-par for stopping a determined attacker. The problem is that some folks here assume that if it's not adequate for worst-case situations then it's worthless in all situations.
Her little .32 is going to be better than no gun at all if the person who confronts her is a typical opportunity predator who will blanch at the mere sight of armed resistance. It's going to be better than no gun at all if she shoots someone and that person decides that getting shot more is less attractive than finding immediate medical attention. And it's going to be better than no gun at all if it does, in fact, actually kill the guy.
The worst part about these debates is that it demonstrates an underlying belief by many that by carrying something more powerful, you don't have to worry about determined attackers, etc. People have been shot countless times by 9mm, .40, and .45 without dropping dead on the spot, too. None of us carries a pistol that is the perfect solution to every imaginable worst case solution.
If I told you I'd give you a magic rock that would save your life half the time, would you turn it down because it was only going to work half the time?
No better than throwing rocks? I hope your jury doesn't find out you said that if you ever shoot someone who was pointing merely a .32 at you ...
As I made the comment, I assume the above is directed at me. If someone should point a gun at me with ill intent, I hope it's a .32, better yet, a .32 with Glasers in it. In all seriousness, I would not in good conscience allow anyone I cared about to carry a .32 as their primary SD weapon.
I also have the exact same experience as the OP, and my 5'3" GF with her shiny new CCW was looking at the "cute" mouse guns, and we discussed the issue of the proper tool for a job, etc, etc, and got down to the business of getting her adequately trained, and so on. Considering the choices now in very small and well made 9mm (Kahr PM9, etc) and even .380 - if you really want to push the limits of adequate terminal ballistics for the SD use - there's simply no reason for a .32.
You may disagree, and I respect that. I say best of luck to the OP an yes, it's better then nothing, and only slightly better then throwing rocks...sorry, couldn't help myself.:D:p:D
Realizing the user is a woman that is not desiring to carry a large and heavy pistol, I felt I got the best compromise of purse/pocket size.
Have you ever seen or shot a Kahr PM9? They are neither large or heavy. Well made, good trigger, and very accurate considering their size:
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_9mm_pm.html
They also make a .380 which is even smaller. Read reviews, etc. They aint cheap, but it is your wife after all.
Good luck, and at least you have her ready to carry something! ;)
The worst part about these debates is that it demonstrates an underlying belief by many that by carrying something more powerful, you don't have to worry about determined attackers, etc.
Not true. At least not in my case. It's precisely my concern over determined attackers that causes me to disregard the .22, .25, .32, .380, etc.
If I told you I'd give you a magic rock that would save your life half the time, would you turn it down because it was only going to work half the time?
Of course I'd turn down the rock. Anyone who believes that a magic charm or sacred dance will save their life is a damned fool! ;)
John_Wayne777
04-26-09, 10:53
As it so often happens here, I think we're all in the right church, just in different pews.
A .32 is a rule one gun. (Rule one of a gunfight: Have a gun) Better than fingernails? Hell yes. Ideal choice for personal defense? Hell no. Would I ever carry one as a primary? Not unless I had no other choice.
These things are made for situations/individuals who are facing the choice between carrying the .32 or relying on harsh language. Yes, this is generally a function of an incorrect mindset and that mindset needs to be worked on. In the meantime, something is better than nothing.
A .32 isn't much, but when you are starting from zero it's a 100% improvement. Getting somebody to fulfill rule 1 is a BIG step in many instances. Getting them up to rule 1.5 (Have enough gun) might take some time.
Not true. At least not in my case. It's precisely my concern over determined attackers that causes me to disregard the .22, .25, .32, .380, etc.
Of course I'd turn down the rock. Anyone who believes that a magic charm or sacred dance will save their life is a damned fool! ;)
This arguement of "better than nothing" will never be resolved. If we view it from a context of civilian defense, the likely attacker is interested in theft or sexual assault and is quickly discouraged when shot at. Rarely is civilian attacked by a determined individual with the intent of murder, and in the rare exceptions of intended murder, the attacker is not determined enough to kill at all costs. Most of the mass shooting incidents and murder cases I know of, when the attacker was shot at they immediately fled or committed suicide.
Law Enforcement is a totally different matter. The attacker is backed into a perceived corner, and their only way out is to kill the officer/officers to avoid jail or death......or they want to die in a blaze of glory. The mindset of the cop killer is entirely different than that of the civilian predator by the fact that the bad guy knows that the law enforcement officer will not disengage from the situation as a civilian will. The law enforcement officer will continue to attack or pursue the bad guy until the bad guy is dead or in custody........this is what gives the bad guy such a determined attack mode. As Agent Urey Patrick commented in "10mm Notes", .355-.38" caliber service pistols have had a marginal ability to end LE threats quickly in dynamic situations during their service history. The most researched, lab tested, and field tested revolution of ballistics science came into its own 20 years ago resulting in the proliferation of larger caliber use for LE. On average, shootings have gone much better for those large agencies adopting the trend and fewer shots have been needed to quickly end threats. The 2006 FBI field report touched on this when they commented on their continued use of the .40S&W.
Just based on the mindset of the LE attacker and the civilian attacker, I would say that the average civilian can get by with smaller calibers given that they use good ammunition. For many civilians, they cannot always dress to carry a 25oz 9mm pistol. From a civilian perspective, I personally would not carry anything smaller than a .380acp. Most .380s are around 15oz or lighter, and they are usually 25-50% smaller in size than most 9mms.
decodeddiesel
04-26-09, 11:33
Sorry to de-rail what is sure to be a "caliber battle royale" but does anyone know who has some of those .380 Hornady 90gr XTP JHP available? Thanks.
Oh and weighing in on this whole thing, I would feel %1000 better having a NAA .22mag mini-revolver in my pocket as opposed to nothing.
Sorry to de-rail what is sure to be a "caliber battle royale" but does anyone know who has some of those .380 Hornady 90gr XTP JHP available? Thanks.
Oh and weighing in on this whole thing, I would feel %1000 better having a NAA .22mag mini-revolver in my pocket as opposed to nothing.
This is one of the best ammo search sites I know of:
http://www.ammoengine.com/find/index?last_firearm_id=handgun&last_caliber_id=9x19mm_Parabellum_Luger&firearm_id=handgun&caliber_id=380_ACP&search%5Bsort%5D=1&search%5Bgroup%5D=0
Unfortunately, .380acp ammo is very popular and is getting sold out just about anywhere you turn. During desperate times, you've pretty much have to go with what you can get. The Double Tap load isn't overly hot, so it would probably be a good choice. Other than that, you can always go with some Georgia Arms FMJ:
http://georgia-arms.com/380acp.aspx
Not true. At least not in my case. It's precisely my concern over determined attackers that causes me to disregard the .22, .25, .32, .380, etc.
+1 there. That's my/our point. :cool:
Have you ever seen or shot a Kahr PM9? They are neither large or heavy. Well made, good trigger, and very accurate considering their size:
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_9mm_pm.html
They also make a .380 which is even smaller. Read reviews, etc. They aint cheap, but it is your wife after all.
Good luck, and at least you have her ready to carry something! ;)
That looks interesting. It is out of my price range today, maybe that is something we can look at down the road.
That comment about rule #1 is what I am going after. She has had a CC permit for a few years and her dad gave her some dangerous (to her!) looking derringer thing with 2 barrels in an over/under config. Looks like a dangerous thing. She never liked it and never once carried it. She has an AR and shoots it, she has fired my Glock many times but she thinks it is huge and ugly. She had shot my 20 year old Beretta Model 21 in .22L many times and she made a comment about carrying it in her purse. I told her we can do better, I can get her her very own and it would be the same exact size, but a slightly more potent round in it. My gun store owner (Tim) knew I had been looking for another model 21 for my son, and when I walked in he had the .32 caliber on the counter in seconds, even before I told him why I was there.
She likes the size and is familiar with its use because of the history with my old model 21. Going this route allowed her to have something of her very own and hopefully get her interested in carrying it. If she takes the bait and carries it, we can maybe later work towards a Glock sub compact or something more manly... but realize this...... she commented that she would much rather have found a PINK pistol in the same physical size... something that would not look so black and dark in her little hand bag.
She does not carry a large bag, so to put my glock in it... she would be forced to empty the bag. Thats not going to happen. I'm trying to get the pistol added to her bag she already is comfortable with, if I try to change too much she will pull back.
My wife works in low income areas helping physically limited elderly folks. She visits sometimes 2-4 homes a day in these areas. Some of these areas would scare some of you all to walk in. I don't like her being there, but she likes what she does and I can't (wont) stop her. By having this "step 1" pocket pistol secretly on hand, it could make a big change in her future... as in being alive, or not being molested/raped by some idiot. I want to encourage her to carry it, forget that it's there, and spend time now and again shooting it with me. As her comfort level grows more stable, she will likley want to learn more and progress into a better weapon on her own. For now, I am trying to fight the good fight, and do it in a logical way with a tool that she is somewhat comfortable with. Pink would help... but I don't know of a Pink model 21!
I wish to never be shot by a .22 or a .32, nothing about that thought is good in my mind. If you offered me an A or B scenario... you throw a rock at my chest and one at my head, or you use a .32 mouse gun and shoot me in the chest and head.... I'm going to start handing you rocks! The rock vs .32/.22 is complete bullshit, I do hope you know that! A .32 is no cannon, but it will enter your body and do damage.... something that most of us sane folks never want to experiance.
So again, I do appreciate all of the advice. And I do hope that one day we can grow into a tool like a Glock (I like Glocks, very trust-worthy... but ugly) for her. But for now, I would be EXTREMELY happy to get your "rule1" done and out of the way. Then we could realistically work towards "rule 1.5" or rules 2, 3, 4, or whatever.
God bless,
Larry
..... she commented that she would much rather have found a PINK pistol in the same physical size... something that would not look so black and dark in her little hand bag.
FYI, you can now get an MnP with pink backstrap:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=11101&langId=-1&productId=68941&tabselected=opti&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=15711
Not the perfect gun for those who want pink, but close! :D
She does not carry a large bag, so to put my glock in it... she would be forced to empty the bag. Thats not going to happen. I'm trying to get the pistol added to her bag she already is comfortable with, if I try to change too much she will pull back.
Although I fully understand what you are trying to do, and see your logic, a .32 at the bottom of a handbag pushes the limits of "better then nothing" about as far as it can go for me. I'm not judging, I am just saying where my comfort level is, and that I took/take a different approach. I don't think either is the "right" approach per se either.
By having this "step 1" pocket pistol secretly on hand, it could make a big change in her future... as in being alive,
In the end, that's what matters.
Pink would help... but I don't know of a Pink model 21!
Best I can do is an compact MnP with pink backstrap. But remember, places like Robar and others can in fact give you a totally pink pistol. Silly yes, but what ever makes people happy I say. ;)
The rock vs .32/.22 is complete bullshit, I do hope you know that!
Depends on the rock....:eek:
I would be EXTREMELY happy to get your "rule1" done and out of the way. Then we could realistically work towards "rule 1.5" or rules 2, 3, 4, or whatever.
God bless,
Larry
Fight the good fight Larry! To answer your question: if you follow the works and advice of people such as Dr Roberts, who does post here, Glaser in any caliber = bad idea. Others can debate the terminal ballistics issues if they wish and I hope you can get the wife to at least a .380 in the near future.
i don't really know enough about 32 cal ammo to weigh in on that. but as far as deep concealment holsters, definitely check out the smart carry holster.
i can carry a G26 in average "carpenter" style jeans and it's invisible. a little 32 would be even easier.
www.smartcarry.com really cool product. draw is a bit slower than i'd like, but that can be improved with practice.
For now, I am trying to fight the good fight, and do it in a logical way with a tool that she is somewhat comfortable with. Pink would help... but I don't know of a Pink model 21!
God bless,
Larry
pink eh? i always thought making the M&P available with a pink grip strap was genius. to a new female gun owner... it's like tons of ugly black guns.. and cool pink one! I'm surprised more manufacturers havent' caught on.
there's always duracoat and similar finishes out there....
i don't really know enough about 32 cal ammo to weigh in on that. but as far as deep concealment holsters, definitely check out the smart carry holster.
i can carry a G26 in average "carpenter" style jeans and it's invisible. a little 32 would be even easier.
www.smartcarry.com really cool product. draw is a bit slower than i'd like, but that can be improved with practice.
try out the fly -- still slow but it distracts them ;)
dirksterg30
04-28-09, 16:04
For Larry's benefit, does anyone know if rimlock is an issue for the Beretta, especially if using rounds with a shorter OAL, such as flat-nose FMJ's?
My wife's Kel-Tec P32 could develop rimlock when loaded with flat-nose FMJ/JHP ammo, unless the mag spacer is used. (her carry ammo is Winchester 71gr. flat-nose FMJ, which has a profile and an OAL like a .32 JHP.)
Ref rimlock; Not that I have noticed, due to the grip angle being more than that on the P32s.
My advice from actually gel testing various .32 ammo is the Winchester FMJ, as it has a flat point bullet (assuming it tests as reliable in that gun). You can afford enough of this stuff to actually do a good reliability check, this is very important.
After reliability is established with the .32 I'd have her shoot the hell out of the .22, they have the same sights, trigger, magazine capacity and grip. If she gets really good at making hits quickly she will be way ahead of the being unarmed, or even armed and not practiced/trained.
She also needs to know WHERE to shoot bad guys for the greatest effect.
You can get all of this done now instead of worrying what the best gun for her is in the future.
now im not stating a fact, but doesnt the .22 caliber claim more lives every year from accidental shootings in comparison to any other caliber???
now im not stating a fact, but doesnt the .22 caliber claim more lives every year from accidental shootings in comparison to any other caliber???
And what exactly would that have to do with anything being discussed here? Nobody's talking about accidental shootings.
Urban myth in my experience.
I've seen many people who have been shot with .22s and .25s, most of them were running around screaming or mad about being shot.
In the case under discussion, I feel the lady is better served with her .32 than a sharp stick or strong language.
Would I prefer her to be armed with a larger caliber? Yes, but she isn't, and a .32 now beats whatever may be the perfect carry gun later.
I ran into this with my wife. She went from anti-gun, to a shooter, to wanting a CCH permit. She started with a Kel Tec P32, due to it being lightweight and small. She could shoot it well, and since she would not carry anything bigger, I left it at that.
We do not always get to win these battles with our loved ones, and pushing the issue will not help.
My wife decided, on her own, after I nearly had to shoot a VERY large man down in NOLA, that she needed a bigger bullet thrower, and she ended up with a Kahr 9mm.
FWIW, I can think of three cases in my career where victims shot with .32s dropped dead on the spot. All were head or neck shots.
Not as reliable as a larger round for sure, but a .32 does have enough penetration to hit the vitals when well placed.
I proned out a big BM once who was beating the crap out of two other BMs. When I arrived on scene he was smashing a guy's head on the pavement. He kept asking me why I was drawing down on him. Turned out that one of the suspects and shot the big guy 5 times in the torso with a .25acp. The big guy took the pistol away from the other guy when he was trying to reload and proceeded to beat the crap out of him and his buddy. Four of the shots were considered to be center mass, but the victim made a quick recovery. He was able to fight the other guys without any noticable effects from the GSWs for about 5 minutes before I got on scene. After he calmed down he started complaining of chest pain, but he still managed lay himself down on the EMS stretcher and did not lose conscienceness.
There is certainly something to be said for using the largest caliber that you can shoot well in a timed course of fire. As has been documented time and time again.....the larger the caliber the greater the margin of shot placement error that you have. More of the person's anatomy is destroyed with each shot, and there are larger entrance/exit holes to make blood loss much more rapid.
Virtually all women are squeamish about recoil initially. My wife was and it was hard for me to get her to move up in caliber. She is now quite confident and proficient in using a 9mm.
A .32acp is better than a .25acp, a knife, or brute strength, but don't expect it to drop someone quickly. I would at the very least try to get her to carry a .380acp in something like a Sig P232.
rwk,
I believe it has a lot of relevance seeing how im not talking about accidentals, im talking about the fatalities the .22 causes every year in comparison to the .32, both being a small caliber and not anywhere close to meeting the bare minimum of 12" penetration, or the stopping power of larger calibers. BOOM! HEADSHOT!
I believe it has a lot of relevance seeing how im not talking about accidentals...
now im not stating a fact, but doesnt the .22 caliber claim more lives every year from accidental shootings in comparison to any other caliber???
Yes, you were talking about "accidentals". Maybe you shouldn't have been but, you were.
BOOM! HEADSHOT!
:rolleyes:
John_Wayne777
05-01-09, 17:22
rwk,
I believe it has a lot of relevance seeing how im not talking about accidentals, im talking about the fatalities the .22 causes every year in comparison to the .32, both being a small caliber and not anywhere close to meeting the bare minimum of 12" penetration, or the stopping power of larger calibers.
...and as the ballistics pros have pointed out numerous times on this site and others, the fact that somebody dies 30 minutes or two days after you shoot them is irrelevant to the goal of self defense. The goal is instantly stopping the actions of someone who wants to kill you.
The .22 is particularly bad at that.
BOOM! HEADSHOT!
Headshots under gunfight conditions are a difficult task for exceptionally well-trained individuals in elite military units with red dot equipped rifles. They are certainly no easier for the average joe using a typical .22 handgun.
People do not stand still in a gunfight.
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