View Full Version : Favorable Del-Ton Review in SWAT
CaptainDooley
04-25-09, 11:53
I have no dog in this fight, I was just surprised to see a favorable review of Del-Ton in a magazine. The latest issue of SWAT gave them good marks - only minuses they saw were improperly staked gas key and castle nut...
I have no dog in this fight, I was just surprised to see a favorable review of Del-Ton in a magazine. The latest issue of SWAT gave them good marks - only minuses they saw were improperly staked gas key and castle nut...
So the only noted problems were that the gun could catastrophically fail due to their lack of attention to critical portions of the assembly process?
No thanks.
Buckaroo
So the only noted problems were that the gun could catastrophically fail due to their lack of attention to critical portions of the assembly process?
No thanks.
Buckaroo
DIY.
Works for most of us.
CaptainDooley
04-25-09, 13:06
Just finished the full edition... they also have a favorable review of a concealable sword... so caveat emptor...
tweakmeister
04-25-09, 13:19
Did they check the chamber to see if it's .223 or 5.56?
they also use cheaper steel, though it's debatable if there is any practical effect on a light-use semi-auto duty rifle.
Eric Shelton
04-25-09, 13:23
Just finished the full edition... they also have a favorable review of a concealable sword... so caveat emptor...
Is it that ridiculous belt sword? Man, I've only picked up two issues of SWAT, and was starting to think I'd really found a magazine worth reading...
CaptainDooley
04-25-09, 13:25
Yes it is the belt sword. I usually really like SWAT (I have a subscription even), but I think they just phoned in May's edition... it's lacking in a few spots...
Eric Shelton
04-25-09, 13:29
I've got a subscription card at home, all filled out! LOL. I think I'll wait a month or so before sending it in... :rolleyes:
DIY.
Works for most of us.
Not the point.
Buckaroo
Not the point.
Buckaroo
What is it then? Is it that if Del-Ton can't be bothered to stick a couple of parts in a press or have someone run over then with a handtool then that makes them unworthy of any consumer's attention?
If it is, then open your eyes and look at what other shooters are running at your local range.
Actually it is the point. Because they could stake the carrier and castle nut properly. They could build a gun to the minimum specs but choose not to just like some others. The reason they keep selling just like DPMS, Bushmaster and others is because there is always a segment of the population that will settle for mediocrity. Then there are those of us who won't.
What is it then? Is it that if Del-Ton can't be bothered to stick a couple of parts in a press or have someone run over then with a handtool then that makes them unworthy of any consumer's attention?
If it is, then open your eyes and look at what other shooters are running at your local range.
Asked before, asking again: Where is Delton sourcing their parts kits from? Still DPMS?
to those of us who know something, staking a carrier key isn't a big deal. THAT one part isn't a big deal.
but 99.9999999999999999999999999% of gun owners dont know SHIT about guns, and would never, ever, ever know that certain components need to be staked. a company that can't take that one tiny extra step to potentially save the ****in LIVES of their customers, i have zero regard for them.
NCPatrolAR
04-26-09, 00:49
I've been running a Del-Ton upper for about 5 years and havent had any issues with it. Yes, the gas key wasnt staked, but I took care of that from the get-go. While not applicable to me; no staking on the castle nut? No concern to me.
My biggest gripe with them is the fact 99% of their guns are 1/9.
SwatDawg15
04-26-09, 02:36
to those of us who know something, staking a carrier key isn't a big deal. THAT one part isn't a big deal.
but 99.9999999999999999999999999% of gun owners dont know SHIT about guns, and would never, ever, ever know that certain components need to be staked. a company that can't take that one tiny extra step to potentially save the ****in LIVES of their customers, i have zero regard for them.
Very good point..
citizensoldier16
04-26-09, 16:48
Very good point..
On the flip side...most of us do the same thing that car guys do. They buy a good car from the lot, then modify it to suit their needs. If all you want is a red Corvette to drive on the weekends with the top down (insert DPMS here) then you just stay with what you can afford. But if you want something that is able to turn corners, go fast, burn tires and hold its own on a road course (insert Colt, Noveske, etc here) then you buy a red Ferrari and modify it to your standards and your budget.
Not everyone here is a Delta operator who needs to sling bodies 24/7. Some people are fine simply owning a target rifle.
Some rifles are hot shit coming right out of the box, and some are just enough to punch holes in paper. It's personal needs/wants that makes them what they are. I'm tired of hearing "If you don't own a Colt with an Aimpoint and PMAGs, your rifle sucks" on this board. Everyone needs to realize that people have different circumstances, budgets, and desires when it comes to the AR platform.
People come to this forum because it holds, quite possible, the best plethora of accurate information on the Internet regarding our beloved rifles. Lets try not to put people and their rifles in a certain category because of who made the parts.
Personally, I have a BM carbine that started out stock, but I've fixed and/or replaced a lot of the parts that needed replacing in order to make it run more reliably:
Colt BCG with proper staking
Upgraded extractor with black insert
H-buffer
DD Omega 7.0
lots of PMAGs
Castle nut staking
Eotech
etc....
Is it still a BM? Yes. Thats what it says on the lower. Does it suck? No, I don't think so. It does exactly what I need it to do with few hic-ups...3 gun matches. In fact, I'll put it against a Colt or a Noveske any day. Oh, and did I pay >$2k for it?
No.... I modified an already proven design, and I take pride in what I've created. Built rather than bought.
Nobody likes to be told that something they took pride in making sucks. Lets be a little more sympathetic to those who are proud of what they have, but still have the desire to make it better. Lets offer more advice and less criticism. We at M4C pride ourselves at being above TOS, but when we get into bashing rifles because of who made them, we're lowering ourselves to their level.
Taking into consideration the initial cost of your BM, plus the Colt BCG, the buffer, extractor and DD rail system what did you spend on your weapon?
I only have one carbine with an optic and it's an ACOG. The problem that some people make is that they purchase a BM, Del-Ton or whatever, they then dump money into a RDS, rail system, and other necessary upgrades and in many cases they spent more than what a quality Colt, LMT, DD or other known performer would have cost.
When I bought my Noveske 16.1" Recon upper I paid just over 1200.00 for it. My Armalite lower was 75.00. The Vltor modstock, pistol grip and LPK cost another couple of hundred. I was still below 1500.00 and I have a weapon that runs and needed no modifications to do so.
On the flip side...most of us do the same thing that car guys do. They buy a good car from the lot, then modify it to suit their needs. If all you want is a red Corvette to drive on the weekends with the top down (insert DPMS here) then you just stay with what you can afford. But if you want something that is able to turn corners, go fast, burn tires and hold its own on a road course (insert Colt, Noveske, etc here) then you buy a red Ferrari and modify it to your standards and your budget.
Not everyone here is a Delta operator who needs to sling bodies 24/7. Some people are fine simply owning a target rifle.
Some rifles are hot shit coming right out of the box, and some are just enough to punch holes in paper. It's personal needs/wants that makes them what they are. I'm tired of hearing "If you don't own a Colt with an Aimpoint and PMAGs, your rifle sucks" on this board. Everyone needs to realize that people have different circumstances, budgets, and desires when it comes to the AR platform.
People come to this forum because it holds, quite possible, the best plethora of accurate information on the Internet regarding our beloved rifles. Lets try not to put people and their rifles in a certain category because of who made the parts.
Personally, I have a BM carbine that started out stock, but I've fixed and/or replaced a lot of the parts that needed replacing in order to make it run more reliably:
Colt BCG with proper staking
Upgraded extractor with black insert
H-buffer
DD Omega 7.0
lots of PMAGs
Castle nut staking
Eotech
etc....
Is it still a BM? Yes. Thats what it says on the lower. Does it suck? No, I don't think so. It does exactly what I need it to do with few hic-ups...3 gun matches. In fact, I'll put it against a Colt or a Noveske any day. Oh, and did I pay >$2k for it?
No.... I modified an already proven design, and I take pride in what I've created. Built rather than bought.
Nobody likes to be told that something they took pride in making sucks. Lets be a little more sympathetic to those who are proud of what they have, but still have the desire to make it better. Lets offer more advice and less criticism. We at M4C pride ourselves at being above TOS, but when we get into bashing rifles because of who made them, we're lowering ourselves to their level.
citizensoldier16
04-26-09, 17:15
Colt BCG with proper staking - $100 (2004 pricing @ gun show)
Upgraded extractor with black insert - $12.95 from Brownell's
H-buffer - $0 (free from a friend)
DD Omega 7.0 - $400
lots of PMAGs - varies, not included in total
Castle nut staking - $5 by gunsmith
Eotech - $325 at local gun show in 2007
TLR-1 with remote switch - $0 (xmas gift from dad)
Rifle cost me $650 (new, show price) in 2004.
Total cost minus mags: $1492.95
Parts were not purchased all at once.
When I bought my AR, it was a range and truck gun. But I've since seen the need to modify it for HD. Considering you can't get a Colt 6920 for under $1400 today, I'd say I did alright, considering an optic and a good light is included in my bottom line.
The problem is that you are applying prices from 5 years ago to the realities of today. Right now you can still get a DD carbine for around 1500.00 dollars and Colt 6920's are starting to come back to this level as well. In addition you have a barrel that is not HP/ MPI tested and a chamber that is more than likely tight.
Your cost for the carbine/ rifle plus the BCG, rail and extractor upgrade was 1162.00. The buffer would have been around 20.00. 5 years ago you could get a Colt 6920 for around 1300.00.
Colt BCG with proper staking - $100 (2004 pricing @ gun show)
Upgraded extractor with black insert - $12.95 from Brownell's
H-buffer - $0 (free from a friend)
DD Omega 7.0 - $400
lots of PMAGs - varies, not included in total
Castle nut staking - $5 by gunsmith
Eotech - $325 at local gun show in 2007
TLR-1 with remote switch - $0 (xmas gift from dad)
Rifle cost me $650 (new, show price) in 2004.
Total cost minus mags: $1492.95
Parts were not purchased all at once.
When I bought my AR, it was a range and truck gun. But I've since seen the need to modify it for HD. Considering you can't get a Colt 6920 for under $1400 today, I'd say I did alright, considering an optic and a good light is included in my bottom line.
On the flip side...most of us do the same thing that car guys do. They buy a good car from the lot, then modify it to suit their needs. If all you want is a red Corvette to drive on the weekends with the top down (insert DPMS here) then you just stay with what you can afford. But if you want something that is able to turn corners, go fast, burn tires and hold its own on a road course (insert Colt, Noveske, etc here) then you buy a red Ferrari and modify it to your standards and your budget.
Not everyone here is a Delta operator who needs to sling bodies 24/7. Some people are fine simply owning a target rifle.
Some rifles are hot shit coming right out of the box, and some are just enough to punch holes in paper. It's personal needs/wants that makes them what they are. I'm tired of hearing "If you don't own a Colt with an Aimpoint and PMAGs, your rifle sucks" on this board. Everyone needs to realize that people have different circumstances, budgets, and desires when it comes to the AR platform.
People come to this forum because it holds, quite possible, the best plethora of accurate information on the Internet regarding our beloved rifles. Lets try not to put people and their rifles in a certain category because of who made the parts.
Personally, I have a BM carbine that started out stock, but I've fixed and/or replaced a lot of the parts that needed replacing in order to make it run more reliably:
Colt BCG with proper staking
Upgraded extractor with black insert
H-buffer
DD Omega 7.0
lots of PMAGs
Castle nut staking
Eotech
etc....
Is it still a BM? Yes. Thats what it says on the lower. Does it suck? No, I don't think so. It does exactly what I need it to do with few hic-ups...3 gun matches. In fact, I'll put it against a Colt or a Noveske any day. Oh, and did I pay >$2k for it?
No.... I modified an already proven design, and I take pride in what I've created. Built rather than bought.
Nobody likes to be told that something they took pride in making sucks. Lets be a little more sympathetic to those who are proud of what they have, but still have the desire to make it better. Lets offer more advice and less criticism. We at M4C pride ourselves at being above TOS, but when we get into bashing rifles because of who made them, we're lowering ourselves to their level.
+1
Very good point
For a ar to be even ok on this forum it seams like it has to be worth $1500+
I have a rather new DPMS lower Del-Ton upper that only cost about $600. It only has about 300 rounds through it and the only major problem was that on 2 reloaded cases the necks were out of spec. And the bolt wouldn't close. I stKed the castle nut myself and never did steak the gas key but haven't had any problems. It has shown no sign of unusual wear, gas key screws have not loosened at all, and nothing is getting weak.
Sure I would love to have a Noveske, DD, Larue, etc. but I'm on a budget here.
For a ar to be even ok on this forum it seams like it has to be worth $1500+
You're missing the point, which is common when people focus on the wrong thing.
The issue isn't the price, the issue is quality. I have a BCM upper on a DSA lower with G&R LPK which adds up to just at $1k, just over with a rear sight.
I'd take that BCM as-is over a Delton/DPMS/Oly whatever with an Eothing on it for the same cost.
When I see a rifle like these that doesn't stake things probably, my next question is "if they missed these overtly obvious things, I wonder what hidden problems this rifle has?"
I have no dog in this fight, I was just surprised to see a favorable review of Del-Ton in a magazine. The latest issue of SWAT gave them good marks - only minuses they saw were improperly staked gas key and castle nut...
Who wrote the test/review?
What is his knowledge/experience with the AR? Does he have any connections to Del-Ton? Good questions to ask yourself before you believe anything you read in a magazine to be factual.
CaptainDooley
04-26-09, 18:10
Scott Oldham is the author - and I have no idea about any of the other questions in regards to his connections and/or experience.
You bring up good points about reviews and that sort of thing - and honestly it's why I posted this here - I would trust the opinions of certain posters here over a rag writer I don't know.
Re: the whole price thing...
It's about standards, not price (as Rob_s said). The simple fact is that if you want a factory built rifle to meet the standards a go-to gun needs to, you'll spend over $1k. If you build one to the same standards, the cost will vary depending on shrewdness, ability, etc, but you'll still end up paying more than just a Del-Ton kit and a lower would cost would be my guess.
I have a frankengun built before the AWB in Calif. No name parts with a PWA lower, the gun has between 7.5k and 10k over the years. I do a bunch in one afternoon and then don't shoot for while I build up my ammo supply.
No, it isn't a name brand hot model, but would you go into combat wearing Gucci's or good boots?
Some of us build as we have the money or the opportunity, my mortgage and kids college is first priority. I have my play money but it takes time to build it up.
I don't intend to shoot in a three day class, bad feet can't stand too long, but I think the guns I build would work well under that kind of pressure.
I have had no stoppages that can be blamed on the gun, ammo and magazine, yes. But the old gun has shot every time I pulled the trigger.
To the people who have the top of the line, good for you, but keep in mind the rest of us like guns also and don't like snobbery.
sniperfrog
04-26-09, 18:24
A guy I work with did a huge group buy of Del Ton kits for a bunch of guys at work. Alot of people were asking my opinion and I said that they weren't known to be high quality. Yet most of these guys couldn't get an AR anywhere else so they jumped in on the group buy. Anyway, About half of them have out of spec magwells that are so tight you have to force the mag in and out. I put together one lower for a guy and the disconnector wouldn't fit in the trigger, amongst other things. Del-Ton=crap
You're missing the point, which is common when people focus on the wrong thing.
The issue isn't the price, the issue is quality. I have a BCM upper on a DSA lower with G&R LPK which adds up to just at $1k, just over with a rear sight.
I'd take that BCM as-is over a Delton/DPMS/Oly whatever with an Eothing on it for the same cost.
When I see a rifle like these that doesn't stake things probably, my next question is "if they missed these overtly obvious things, I wonder what hidden problems this rifle has?"
With the $300-400 you save by not buying a name you can go though the entire rifle and make sure everything Is done properly, replace what needs to be replaced, and buy some ammo with the money left over.
I just pick up the magazine on the newstand on occasion. Thought some of the past issues were outstanding, but some of the recent issues seemed to be missing something.:(
Don't know about Delton, but some belt sword d00-dadd seems mysterious.
From Tactical Response magazine--"Scott Oldham is a supervisory sergeant with the Bloomington, IN Police Department where he is assigned to the Operations Division as patrol supervisor, as well as being one of the team leaders for the department’s Tactical Unit. He and his partner, Sergeant Mick Williams, provide contract instruction on a wide range of subjects, including tactical and patrol-based skills."
2 separate uppers I purchased from del ton had problems. One sheared the gas key screws off, due to them not being staked.
Second one, the barrel nut was not tight. To the point where the barrel litterally flopped around in the upper.
That was enough for them to lose my business.
You are still missing the point and that's OK because it is a common occurence in situations like this. This has nothing to do with snobbery or anything else. So let's put this in perspective, shall we?
When you purchased your weapon you didn't have a need for it. You wanted it. In which case you could have waited a little longer and saved the money to buy a quality weapon. Had it been a rush purchase for home defense or duty then basically you would have put your life in danger for the savings of a few hundred dollars.
The reason your DPMS/ Delton hasn't had any "issues" yet, is because it isn't even broken in. It is a known fact that carrier keys that are not properly torqued and staked will come loose. At some point if you start driving your weapon hard all the little insignificant things will start to pop up.
If you choose to ignore the advice and opinions given here that is your prerogative. However, if you are depending on your weapon to protect you or your castle then you are fool-hardy.
With the $300-400 you save by not buying a name you can go though the entire rifle and make sure everything Is done properly, replace what needs to be replaced, and buy some ammo with the money left over.
My first AR was an LMT i put together(upper/lower/BCG) in 07.Before the BUIS it came in right at $1000.I've yet to hear anyone say it wasnt quality.The more "affordable" AR's at the time were running arround $800+ if i remember correctly.
I just put together...
BCM upper
CDD stripped lower
STAG LPK
BCM milspec RE kit w/H-buffer
MOE handguards/stock
G&R BCG w/tetsed bolt
Even in this market...under $1100 if my memory isnt off on some of the prices.Add a BUIS and it's a little over $1100.
It was also spread out over several months.Although,this time that was as much about availability as anything.
Pretty sure it would be considered up to par by most...
Assuming i didnt screw it up in any way.:D
Quality can be had at a value if you're willing to look and do a little work(fun if you ask me).Not the $1500+ i keep hearing is a must anyway.Not now or two years ago.
With the $300-400 you save by not buying a name you can go though the entire rifle and make sure everything Is done properly, replace what needs to be replaced, and buy some ammo with the money left over.
It will cost you more to bring a sub-standard up to par than it does to buy a quality product to begin with.
With the $300-400 you save by not buying a name you can go though the entire rifle and make sure everything Is done properly, replace what needs to be replaced, and buy some ammo with the money left over.
Let me know how you plan on doing HPT and MPI on the bolt and barrel.
Or upgrading the 4140 steel.
Or reboring the 1/9 twist to 1/7.
Or you can just do it right to begin with.
Eric Shelton
04-27-09, 11:14
A quote I read in another thread here while I was building my first AR, seems applicable once again. I believe the topic of conversation was the Colt 6920, but I may have the model number wrong. In any case:
1. You can build a better gun.
2. You can build a cheaper gun.
3. You cannot build a better and cheaper gun.
Now, I've got somewhere around $1600 into my AR since I added the Redi-Mag, and I'm far from being made out of money. It took me two years to build that rifle, working for $9 an hour at a local gun store, then getting hired by FedEx in just enough time to have my hours drastically cut by $4/gallon gasoline. I bring that up to say that I know full-well that you can't always drop a huge hunk of cash on a gun and that money gets tight.
So I spent 2 years, buying quality components when I had enough saved up. Because the AR platform is most definitely one where you get what you pay for, and I'd handled Oly guns while working at the gun store... :rolleyes:
Now, after building it myself with attention to detail, I have a rifle that I would run at any school. I wouldn't be foolish enough to say "it's as good as a Noveske", because John builds these things for a living. But I can keep up. And there's no doubt that it'll outrun a lot of off-the-shelf rifles, because I've done it.
I never thought that made me a snob. I thought it just meant I thought things through and planned according to my budget.
NCPatrolAR
04-27-09, 12:20
I wouldn't put Del-ton uppers in the same category as Olympic.
Eric Shelton
04-27-09, 14:42
I didn't intend to, and apologize if that's how somebody took my post. I've never handled, much less seen, a Del-Ton in person.
My post was just intended to reinforce that quality parts and things done right (staking, torquing of a barrel to the upper, etc.) cost, but it can still be done, even on a budget, over time. When a person has to go through and spend some more money to fix things, or replace their standard handguard with a free float and wind up with two... In the long run, I'd hazard a guess that an equivalent amount of money gets spent.
I just don't care for snobbery comments, when in the long run it's primarily a matter of when you spend the money.
I wouldn't put Del-ton uppers in the same category as Olympic.
What would you say diffentiates the two? What would make one better than the other?
NCPatrolAR
04-28-09, 12:14
What would you say diffentiates the two? What would make one better than the other?
From the handful I've seen, the Olympic uppers typically have no staking at all, extremely tight chambers and in the case of the pistol caliber uppers, canted front sight towers. When watching Olympic guns in class, they usually have numerous failures to extract or failures to chamber.
With the Del-Ton uppers, I typically see non F marked front sight assemblies and poor staking on the BCGs. In classes I have yet to see anything other than the commonly seen issues encountered with every brand of AR.
Neither are high-end guns, but I'd trust my life to my Del-ton upper, but wouldn't fire an Olympic unless I was forced to
+1
Very good point
For a ar to be even ok on this forum it seams like it has to be worth $1500+
I have a rather new DPMS lower Del-Ton upper that only cost about $600. It only has about 300 rounds through it and the only major problem was that on 2 reloaded cases the necks were out of spec. And the bolt wouldn't close. I stKed the castle nut myself and never did steak the gas key but haven't had any problems. It has shown no sign of unusual wear, gas key screws have not loosened at all, and nothing is getting weak.
Sure I would love to have a Noveske, DD, Larue, etc. but I'm on a budget here.
It is NEVER about cost and is ALWAYS about quality! It just so happens that these two seem to go together. This would be commonly called a CLUE.
You get what you pay for (especially in AR's).
C4
With the $300-400 you save by not buying a name you can go though the entire rifle and make sure everything Is done properly, replace what needs to be replaced, and buy some ammo with the money left over.
This is incorrect. You cannot replace things like barrels and still be in the $300-400 range (FYI).
C4
First things first. AR reviews in ANY magazine are generally VOID of any serious technical data. Why? The reviewer is generally a trigger puller. There is nothing wrong with being a trigger puller, but they tend not to dive into the construction of the weapon, and materials used. There are exceptions to the rule though, but they are few and far between.
So is the DEL-TON AR good for most people? Most likely. Would it be high up on my list as a defensive weapon? No.
To date NO MANUFACTURER (RRA, BM, Armalite, DPMS, Oly, Del-Ton, etc) can compete with a BCM/LMT upper and a LMT lower (as you can get a complete weapon for UNDER $1k).
So the question that begs to be asked is, why spend $800-$900 on a lesser quality weapon when you can get the above for about the same price????
C4
First things first. AR reviews in ANY magazine are generally VOID of any serious technical data. Why? The reviewer is generally a trigger puller. There is nothing wrong with being a trigger puller, but they tend not to dive into the construction of the weapon, and materials used. There are exceptions to the rule though, but they are few and far between.
I thought my SWAT article on the SR15 was quite well done, thank you.
:p
CaptainDooley
04-28-09, 13:31
D'oh!
I thought my SWAT article on the SR15 was quite well done, thank you.
:p
It could have been, but I did not get a chance to read it.
C4
To date NO MANUFACTURER (RRA, BM, Armalite, DPMS, Oly, Del-Ton, etc) can compete with a BCM/LMT upper and a LMT lower (as you can get a complete weapon for UNDER $1k).
True words.
Too bad the complete LMT lowers are in such short supply.
True words.
Too bad the complete LMT lowers are in such short supply.
There are other options for lowers. We do a lot of custom lowers with our LPK and they are generally in stock.
C4
I don't want to restart a p**sing contest, but if one were to buy a name upper with a name barrel, wouldn't that be the first step in building a semi- quality upper?
I see ads with Wilson barrels and Cerro Forge uppers for a reasonable price, combine those with a good BCG would you have a good build or not?
Just asking
JA
I don't want to restart a p**sing contest, but if one were to buy a name upper with a name barrel, wouldn't that be the first step in building a semi- quality upper?
I see ads with Wilson barrels and Cerro Forge uppers for a reasonable price, combine those with a good BCG would you have a good build or not?
Just asking
JA
It depends on your NEED. Good for what? In the armory where I work there is a brand-spanking-new complete upper still in the box that my department bought for me specifically to use. We've had it since November and still it sits in the box it came in. The entire thing was $390 including the BCG, handguards and CH from M&A Parts. I elected to use my own personal upper instead until I could find the one I really wanted (and trusted). It's supposed to arrive tomorrow from Grant. I spent nearly $1000 of my own money because I wont stake someones life that on substandard equipment. I have to know its going to work.
I don't want to restart a p**sing contest, but if one were to buy a name upper with a name barrel, wouldn't that be the first step in building a semi- quality upper?
I see ads with Wilson barrels and Cerro Forge uppers for a reasonable price, combine those with a good BCG would you have a good build or not?
Just asking
JA
You do realize that Wilson barrels are one of the cheaper ones out there right? They are also not HP/MP and are generally 1/9 twist with no M4 Feed Ramps.
C4
You do realize that Wilson barrels are one of the cheaper ones out there right? They are also not HP/MP and are generally 1/9 twist with no M4 Feed Ramps.
C4
you always see them, in that configuration, on GB for like $250.. and still nobody bidding
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