Best Hangun?

[6933]

Have heard great things about the HK USP Tactical .45, HK Mark 23, and pretty much every HK hangun currently produced. I am in the market and the reviews are always positive. If SOCOM uses HK, why shouldn't I seriously consider it? Have read about Spec. Ops. units with Sigs and other LE agencies with various other makes, but it seems most agencies can't afford an HK or else they would procure them. My info is based on what is out there in print and the web. Maybe I'm getting incorrect info. But, once again, if many Spec. Ops. teams prefer HK,(and the info is reliable) then this seems to be the best endorsement possible. Any help, verifiable info, informed opinions, advice, etc. greatly appreciated. With $$$ so tight for me, I will sacrifice to buy a handgun(or two) that I may have to stake my life on. I am new to the handgun scene so if I seem ignorant, it is because I am.

[VA_Dinger]

Standard answer;

Buy a Glock 19 and at least five magazines. When time and money permits replace the horrible stock Glock sights with aftermarket Heinie or Warren Tactical.

That's the best advise anybody can give a new handgun buyer/shooter.

[Adam_s]

HK makes good guns, I will agree there.
That being said, they also have had in the past (and still, by SOME reports) a civilian be dammed mentality. That is, their customer service is somewhat lacking if you aren't an organization with a contract with them.

(Note: I own no HK's, have never owned one, don't owe them money, and they didn't kick my dog...so...just being honest)

Also, you said money was tight. HK parts and mags are VERY spendy. Example: HK 45C mags are selling for around $60/per. HK USP in 9mm are closer to $35 (for the 10rnd version). Comparison: Glock 17 17rnd magazines are $29. So, by buying 5 USP mags, you could have just about paid for 6 Glock mags.

Glocks from my reading are good guns (although the .40SW models are very cranky when they have a light attached to them). S&W M&P's are good as well.

Just because a "high speed, low drag" outfit uses a gun, doesn't make them the best. Remember, they typically have armorers, contracts with manufacturers, and the like that the normal civilian will not have.

Best advice I can give: go out and fondle guns. Figure out what fits you best. If you can, rent one, fire a few magazines through it. Just stick to the bigger names, and you should be good as far as parts and repairs go.

-Adam

[eltorito71]

I own a Sig226 so I'm kind of biased, but I have friends that own both Glocks and HKs. After shooting my 226 on several occasions, they each went out and bought 226s. They loved the weight/balance of the 226 and the accuracy compared to their Glocks and HKs.

[varoadking]

Glock 17 wins for price, acceptable accuracy, durability and aftermarket options...and ergos as far as I am concerned...

I have no aloha for the G19 - the finger grooves are in the wrong places and I could never get comfortable with one...

I have a slew of various pieces, and I have sold and traded off scores of others. You can pay more than the cost of a G17, but the advantages will be incremental and will not be proportionate to the cost.

That said, a SiG P220 or P229 is about as accurate as a box stock piece can be, and a custom 1911 built by a real pro can be nothing short of amazing...

As far as staking your life on something...I really despise that sort of thinking when it comes to a handgun. You need to stake your life on your training.

As someone else has quipped - I trust my life to me and my mother, and I have to wonder about her...

[Adam_s]

VAroadking:
I agree. On that note, pick something, and SHOOT IT. I'd rather trust my life to a slingshot I've shot 10000 times to a full house 1911 that has sat in my safe unused.

Besides, isn't that how David beat Goliath anyways...?
-Adam

[John_Wayne777]

Have heard great things about the HK USP Tactical .45, HK Mark 23, and pretty much every HK hangun currently produced. I am in the market and the reviews are always positive. If SOCOM uses HK, why shouldn't I seriously consider it?


...because you're not in SOCOM.

I'll tell you the secret to the weapons and gear universe: What works well for unit X or person X might suck toilet water for you or for your purposes.

People often place too much emphasis on what some high-speed unit uses or doesn't use. The snag here is that what works great for a guy fast roping out of Blackhawk helicopters in 40 pounds of body armor and a Safariland thigh rig might not be the best choice for the guy who is trying to conceal a handgun to deal with less exotic (but no less deadly) threats found at the local stop-n-rob.

Now as to H&K handguns, they are good handguns. H&K overengineers their equipment as a general rule and that produces weapons that offer excellent service.

Still, that doesn't mean their offerings are ideal for you. When selecting a handgun for serious social purposes you have to consider the cost of the weapon, the cost and availability of spare magazines, the ease with which you can replace important components like sights, the cost and availability of spare parts, the selection of holsters available, the amount of training you will be able to do with the weapon, and last but most importantly, the intended use of the weapon you are considering.



Have read about Spec. Ops. units with Sigs and other LE agencies with various other makes, but it seems most agencies can't afford an HK or else they would procure them.


One of the reasons that H&K is not more popular in the LE market is indeed cost....but those other support issues I mentioned earlier also play into the decision making process for police departments.

Glocks are extremely popular in LE for a number of reasons, including the steep discounts and generous incentives Glock offers to PD's, the ease of support for the weapons, etc.



My info is based on what is out there in print and the web.


Much of what you see on the web is garbage. I saw somebody the other day contend on Youtube that "SWAT" only uses Sigs.....Incidentally, he is an airsoft dealer and knows more about real weapons than I do, apparently...



Maybe I'm getting incorrect info. But, once again, if many Spec. Ops. teams prefer HK,(and the info is reliable) then this seems to be the best endorsement possible.


Certain units may issue weapon X, but that doesn't mean every member of that unit *likes* weapon X. I've met SEALs who prefer Glocks and 1911's to the Sig P226 that is their standard sidearm. I'm sure there are CAG guys out there who prefer Glocks to the 1911's that were standard issue for a long time. I've met lots of Army SF guys who loathe the M9 and would much rather have a 1911 or a Glock. I've also seen the opposite.

The adoption of a particular weapon by a military unit or police department *IS* useful information, because those organizations typically have the capability to test and evaluate weapons better than any individual can. That is useful. Still, that isn't the whole story. Glock 22's, for instance, are used heavily by a number of law enforcement agencies in the US. It's probably the most popular issue weapon in American law enforcement. It's also got a number of problems as searches on this board and a few others will show you.



Any help, verifiable info, informed opinions, advice, etc. greatly appreciated.


You're in the right place. On this board you'll find some of the most experienced individuals of any gun board. Pay particular attention to the information given by people with the title of "Subject Matter Expert" and "Industry Professional" here.



With $$$ so tight for me, I will sacrifice to buy a handgun(or two) that I may have to stake my life on. I am new to the handgun scene so if I seem ignorant, it is because I am.

There's nothing wrong with not knowing. Everybody has to start somewhere. The dissemination of good information is why this site exists.

As to your situation, my best advice for you would be this:

Buy a Glock 17 or 19 (the 19 is better for most folks if concealed carry is a concern), several spare magazines (minimum of 5), some quality carry gear, and then spend the money on quality professional training from one of the top notch instructors out there. (Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Kyle from US Training Center/Blackwater USA, Magpul Dynamics, etc.)

The point in recommending the Glock 17/19 is:

- they are generally very reliable (non-9mm Glocks are not as reliable as the 9mm Glocks)
- they are generally easy to use
- a consistent trigger pull from shot to shot is often much easier for new shooters to master than a traditional DA/SA gun
- it's very easy to do light customization on a Glock 17/19 such as replacing sights.
- magazines and spare parts for them are relatively inexpensive and widely available
- they require a minimum of platform specific TLC to keep up and running
- there is a wide variety of carry gear out there for them to suit practically any situation you can imagine
- 9mm is the cheapest centerfire handgun to feed ceteris paribus

The most important thing you can do from where you are is get a quality handgun that requires a minimum of muss and fuss to learn to use, develop a commitment to training and practice, and seek out formal training from competent instructors.

[Beat Trash]

While the HK is a good product, Their customer service isn't. Their guns and magazines are expensive, compared to other guns out there.

If you are interested in a 9mm, then the Glock 17 or Glock 19 are excellent choices. Replace the sights, and have at it.

If looking at other calibers, then I personally would at the S&W M&P. The M&P 9mm is an excellent gun, been carrying an issued one for over 3 years now. The M&P 40 and 45's are excellent. If I were in the market for a 40 cal, it'd be an M&P. If I wanted a non 1911 45, it'd be an M&P.

No matter what you get, decide on how many magazines you want, and get them while you can.

Due to the cost of ammunition, I'd strongly suggest the 9mm caliber. All of the major calibers will work, provided you do you part as it relates to shot placement.

[varoadking]

While the HK is a good product, Their customer service isn't.

I've had good luck with their CS. What issues have you had?

[sniperfrog]

Just some info on the Mark 23. Only about 5% of the SEAL Teams like that gun. SF chose not to buy it (smart). The rest think it's just an expensive boat anchor. That freakin' thing is huge, way to big to carry as a secondary weapon. It's slow out of the holster due to size, has a horrible DA trigger pull and overall not user friendly. I had an HK USP 45 but even that was a large gun that never felt well so I got rid of it. Plus HK are are too damn expensive. I think Glock or the SW M&P are both good choices.

[SSGN_Doc]

SEALs I talked to on an underway a few years back thought the Mk23 was way to heavy for a handgun, oversized, and that it was designed with a philisophical flaw of trying to make a handgun do the work that was best served by a carbine or SMG.

They thought it was a cool toy that they got to play with without spending any of their money on it. I didn't see any of them in the weapons they brought with them either. Side arms were Sigs and Berettas, and the LT had a 1911A1.

They were fun guys to talk guns with. They all seemed to have realistic expectations of what their tools were designed to do. I have a lot of respect for them and debunked a few myths while I had access to them (hard for them to get away from you on a 688i submarine:D). The Mk23 was one of the myths I was able to shed personal light on.

[jwinch2]

I have owned multiple HK's in the past. A USP 40, P-2000, and HK-45. I sold them all and bought a CZ SP-01 and CZ P-01 and have never been happier with my handguns. In my view, HK's are extremely reliable and the P-30 and HK-45 even have pretty good ergonomics. I am even one of the people who like the mag release next to the trigger guard, or at least I never had a problem with it. However, their triggers suck out loud and no amount of work can make them not suck out loud. I tried everything from trigger jobs to the light LEM kit, and nothing worked. I also hate the safety and decocker lever. It feels like what it is, cheap plastic.

My customer service experience was decent, though I only used them once, so nothing to complain about there. I will say that HK's are WAY overpriced for what you get. Both of my CZ's combined cost only slightly more than the HK45 did.

At the end of the day, it came down to the fact that my CZ's feel like they were made for my hand whereas the HK's never did. Furthermore, I am far more accurate with them than I ever was my HK's largely because the triggers are so much better.

There are a ton of HK fan boys out there and tons more who hate everything to do with them. I am in the middle. They make an extremely reliable pistol but one that, in my view, is vastly overpriced for what you get. I would also echo what others have already said about he Mk-23. That thing is huge and almost universally not loved by members of SOCOM. It is so damn big that the original sized glock 21 and the FNP 45 look like sub-compacts by comparison. It makes a freakin' desert eagle look like a normal full size gun for crying out loud. The grip is ridiculous and I don't know anyone who can actually grip one comfortably enough to shoot accurately with it. Except maybe Shaq - LOL. All that and you get to pay way way way too much for it... You could buy a pretty tricked out AR for the price of the Mk-23... Nowhere near worth it in my view.

Finally, I will also echo what others have stated that you may be better off getting a different weapons system and with the price differential, you can buy a few extra mags and a pretty significant amount of ammo to become proficient with it. It seems that many on here like glock, and I have no problem with them other than their ergonomics not really working for me.

Good luck with it regardless of what you decide...

Cheers

[skyugo]

if you want a super reliable pistol that will never rust, can be detail stripped with a rusty nail, and can be fixed for about 18 bucks for most issues, go glock.

HK's are super cool, but i can't justify the cost myself for a gun i'm just gonna strap to my sweaty ass and generally abuse. :D

i'm not really hot on the uber-complex HK mechanisms either. or SA/DA guns. or safeties. that said i still lust for them from time to time. :confused:

[ralph]

I've had good luck with their CS. What issues have you had?

Yeah, really, I'd like to know ,too. I think there are some folks who parrot things they heard like Hk's CS being so bad, without having any actual experience with them... I had some problems witha NIB P-2000 I had bought, the LEM trigger wasn't working right, I called HK and got a live person on the second try, I explained my problem, they gave me a RA# and told me that if I got it to them they would fix and return to me...I thought this would take awhile...Much to my suprise it was returned in 13days total from when I sent it to them. The problem was a broke spring in the LEM trigger, they also went through the pistol and found it had a out of spec firing pin spring, they replaced that,too test fired it and returned to me. All in all Hk's CS wasn't bad...

[Marcus L.]

The H&Ks that I've used over the years have been very reliable and durable. Accuracy has also been better than Glocks with the USP series, P2000, and P30. The one characteristic of H&Ks that takes some getting used to is the trigger. Most shooters are not accustomed to it and it effects their groupings if they are not trained with it. The travel of the DA/SA trigger is a little longer overall, but with repetative dry firing and shooting it becomes second nature.

Don't think that you are getting a quantum leap in handgun technology with the H&K. It is a good quality pistol and is on par the other top handguns on the market. I think Sigs are a little better in terms of shootability. The Sig trigger is very refined and crisp. The H&K is more durable and less prone to rust. There is no "best" handgun, because among the top designs there are only trade-offs and compromises.

[dsg2003gt]

Lol, by that logic, the reason why everyone doesnt have an HK is just because of the money and we are all "dealing" with lesser guns because we arent rich folks.


Maybe the lesser guns are just as good, and we can have two for the price of 1 hk.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

H&K makes excellent firearms. You can argue that they aren't worth the premium but you can't really argue that they are top-drawer weapons. You would be well served buying yourself one. Pick up a P2000 or P30 and you are pretty much done buying handguns unless you are an enthusiast (like me). Their customer service is no where near as bad as you hear on the internet (and Glock's is no where near as good as you hear.).

That being said, you would also be well served by a nice Glock 17 (or 19). The Glock 17 is basically the standard high capacity handgun for the world. They are very durable, boringly reliable, and accurate enough to dominate competition.

We are in the golden age of handguns, you really have to work your butt off to make a really bad choice.

[ToddG]

But, once again, if many Spec. Ops. teams prefer HK,(and the info is reliable) then this seems to be the best endorsement possible.

What level of training do those "Spec. Ops." guys get? Is it similar to your level of training?

What type of maintenance and logistic support do those "Spec. Ops." guys yet? Is it similar to your level of maintenance & logistic support?

What environments do they operate in? Do you operate in those environments?

What other weapons do they normal deploy with? Do you deploy with those other weapons?

Selecting from amongst guns which are popular with various "serious" organizations does make sense. After all, we except (hope...assume...) that the gun has been the subject of both top-notch designing and rigorous testing. That's why you'll see, in threads where less common & less vetted guns are discussed like Walther or CZ, there is much less general acceptance.

But once you narrow your search down to guns with proven track records, you need to start looking at which specific features and capabilities meet your needs.

[jwinch2]

What level of training do those "Spec. Ops." guys get? Is it similar to your level of training?

What type of maintenance and logistic support do those "Spec. Ops." guys yet? Is it similar to your level of maintenance & logistic support?

What environments do they operate in? Do you operate in those environments?

What other weapons do they normal deploy with? Do you deploy with those other weapons?

Selecting from amongst guns which are popular with various "serious" organizations does make sense. After all, we except (hope...assume...) that the gun has been the subject of both top-notch designing and rigorous testing. That's why you'll see, in threads where less common & less vetted guns are discussed like Walther or CZ, there is much less general acceptance.

But once you narrow your search down to guns with proven track records, you need to start looking at which specific features and capabilities meet your needs.

Good post and quite true. I would further add that for some reason, the fact that a particular handgun is not widely in use in the US military or police can affect things as well. You brought up CZ which obviously has a significant following overseas and is widely used in various NATO countries. I think the CZ 75 design has been cloned by well over a dozen companies now. Much of the same could be said for Walther as well. For some reason, the phenomenon of who uses it seems more important when it comes to pistols than long rifles. As an example no one seems to care that AK's aren't in wide use in the US or other NATO countries. In addition, sometimes good things are staring us in the face and we don't even know how good they are. Its hard for us to remember because they are in such wide use now, but not that long ago, Glocks were new to the US and people were very unsure of them. What's the bottom line? Just because a gun isn't made by a sexy company or featured on the cover of SOCOM for Playstation doesn't mean it isn't a serious and reliable weapon.

I like guns that are updated for modern applications but based on proven designs which is why I ended up with CZ's, but that is just me. There are a ton of great guns out there right now so finding something that works for you should be a treat. I just have a hard time adjusting to the idea of paying so much more for certain brands unless there is an obvious difference in quality, support, or reliability.

As an example, I have a friend who just bought a tricked out Springfield Arms 1911. I was going to sell him some ammo that I had left over from my HK45. I had several boxes of Federal Hydrashocks and several boxes of Hornady TAP which I think all would agree is quality ammo. He went out and tried the ammo ahead of time and decided to only by the Federal as his gun would not feed the Hornady. So, now we have a situation where he paid well in excess of $1000 to have a gun that won't even feed really good ammo, let alone the crap stuff. That just doesn't make any sense to me. At least with HK, the ones I had will feed pretty much anything.

Good thread...

Cheers

[RogerinTPA]

Mk23's are collecting dust in arms rooms. If you have to get an HK, get the P2000, P30 or HK45. If you want to save some coin and have a quality weapon, as others have stated, get a M&P, a trigger job, 8 to 10 mags, ammo (good luck with that) and you're all set. My preference is the M&P40, but I also own the 45, 9, and 9c (for daily carry).

[rob_s]

Standard answer;

Buy a Glock 19 and at least five magazines. When time and money permits replace the horrible stock Glock sights with aftermarket Heinie or Warren Tactical.

That's the best advise anybody can give a new handgun buyer/shooter.

There are a few basic truths in the shooting world. The above, as well as "Buy a Colt 6920 and put an Aimpoint on it", is at the top of the list.

[rob_s]

One interesting note about HKs in general...

You almost never see them in the shooting sports. IPSC, IDPA, etc. are almost always HK free outside of a few folks with a desire to be "different", and the number of those same folks that are actually competitive with them is even smaller.

Now, playing isn't fighting, yadayadayada, but this has always been a huge red flag to me. Even those folks that come out and "run whatcha brung" for their first few matches very rarely stick with the HKs unless their department happens to issue it and mandate it. Hell, I see more Sigs and Beretta 92s in competition than I do long-term HK shooters.

[JohnD]

I personally like the Glock 19. It works great as my daily carry gun.

Back in 1998 I was working with a team from the Polish GROM and they were using Glock 17's. I ran into several of the guys in 2004 in A-Stan and they had switched to HK USP's 9mm version that offers cocked and lock carry.

[Beat Trash]

I've had good luck with their CS. What issues have you had?

Department getting parts for MP5's in a timely manner...

[ToddG]

Hell, I see more Sigs and Beretta 92s in competition than I do long-term HK shooters.

Within the shooting sports, people put a huge premium on things like low bore axis and short reset ... neither of which the HK delivers.

But the biggest factor is sponsorship. Both SIG and Beretta have fielded successful competition teams, sent them around the country to win trophies and sing praises. I know, because I was on both teams. So there is "proof" that those guns can win, and that "proof" generates sales. Since Beretta and SIG stopped having serious IDPA presence, both companies have seen their marketshare among IDPA shooters drop precipitously.

HK has never had a team with people who were contenders for national level titles. They've got zero press in the shooting sports and they don't market in that direction.

Add to that the cost of the guns and accessories, especially magazines which competitive shooters buy in larger quantity than the typical LEO or CCW'er, and it's not surprising the guns are less common in competition.

[Beat Trash]

What level of training do those "Spec. Ops." guys get? Is it similar to your level of training?

What type of maintenance and logistic support do those "Spec. Ops." guys yet? Is it similar to your level of maintenance & logistic support?

What environments do they operate in? Do you operate in those environments?

What other weapons do they normal deploy with? Do you deploy with those other weapons?

Selecting from amongst guns which are popular with various "serious" organizations does make sense. After all, we except (hope...assume...) that the gun has been the subject of both top-notch designing and rigorous testing. That's why you'll see, in threads where less common & less vetted guns are discussed like Walther or CZ, there is much less general acceptance.

But once you narrow your search down to guns with proven track records, you need to start looking at which specific features and capabilities meet your needs.

This response is excellent in it's common sense approach.

The "High Speed, Low Drag" community will (hopefully) look to the needs of the mission, then look at the available tools to full fill those needs. Their needs may not be yours. Their needs might not even be the same from mission to mission, or from deployment to deployment.

(I am not, have never been, nor do I pretend to be, a member of any of the Special units of the US Military. Those I have meet in real life were professional, rather amusing to drink beer and b/s with, and viewed their firearms as tools.)

While looking at weapons used by Larger LE Departments and Military Spec Op's can give incite to the durability of the gun's design, don't stop there.

As TodG stated, one must determine what their needs are. Don't pick a firearm just because the "cool kids" carry that one....

[bones]

I through away a Lot of my money over the years on handguns,but my Glock 17 has Never let me down.

[John Fettes]

Have heard great things about the HK USP Tactical .45, HK Mark 23, and pretty much every HK hangun currently produced. I am in the market and the reviews are always positive. ..... I will sacrifice to buy a handgun(or two) that I may have to stake my life on. I am new to the handgun scene so if I seem ignorant, it is because I am.

I think that you need to ask yourself (as we all do), what's it for?

If the answer is for personal protection/concealed carry, then you already have some good answers here with the S&W MPs (superior ergonomics) & Glocks. I don't think that I saw the S&W "J" frames mentioned above, but they are an option too.

You likely need to find a range, club, or fellow shooters that can let you try several things till you find something that you like and will meet your needs. You most likely need a reliable blaster .38 Special or 9mm and up, a good carry rig, practice ammo and then find a good training class.

If your answer is something else, then this answer will change.

John

[thopkins22]

"Best Handgun" as has already been stated is so subjective that it's a ridiculous thing to try and determine.

At this point in my life, the only centerfire auto pistols I've owned are two Glock 19s, and I don't think I made a mistake. I've also got a Colt revolver and three S&W revolvers.

But after last weekend, I'm recommending The S&W M&P 9 to everyone looking for a fullsize pistol. At my range I met an IDPA Master, and an incredible shooter(I'm talking 9.5sec on El Presidente after scoring.) Talked, watched, and probably picked up several hundred dollars worth of tips...very nice gentleman. He put his M&P Pro into my hands several times and had me shoot at 10yds, 20yds, 30yds, and 40yds. I was no shit more accurate with his pistol at 40yds than I was with my Glock at 10. Part of that was no doubt the PC sear and light trigger in his gun, but I was really, really impressed. I'd like to shoot one with the regular trigger to compare and see what happens, but I tend to think that a huge part was that it placed the trigger in a much better position for me than Glocks do.

So take this post two ways... A)I'm recommending something I don't own, so there's no owners superiority here. B)I'm recommending something I don't own, so I can't talk to reliability etc... However there seems to be plenty of evidence that says it's top notch in that aspect.

I'm not planning to sell my 19s, I still think that if you are going to own ONE do-it-all pistol that will run exceptionally well that the G19 is hard to beat. But given how well I shot the M&P I'm not going to OD on the Glock cool aid anymore.

As far as what you've heard regarding the HKs...I'm sure that they're utterly overbuilt and reliable, but the HK crowd tend to make the Colt/Glock/Sig/whatever fanatics look mild and reasonable. I've never been turned on by their marketing, but apparently lots of people are...to the extreme.

[Alex F]

I've owned three HKs, a Mk23 (yeah...), a tactical USP, and a standard .45 USP. I gave them a good, long, fair try, and I found them lacking.

I like the Glock 19, it's a fine handgun and if I had to have something cheap overseas I'd go for one of them in a heartbeat.

Here in the states, I have gotten to like and shoot well with the Sig 22x series. I CCW a 220, and I have a 226 for gun golf.

As has been said, get something good (Glock 19 is fine, or a Sig 228) and get some professional instruction with it.

[Irish]

S&W M&P in 9mm or a Glock 19. Both have outstanding track records and I don't think you can go wrong with either one. Good luck.

[Business_Casual]

This should be tacked and pointed to the next time some one asks.

M_P

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

There are a few basic truths in the shooting world. The above, as well as "Buy a Colt 6920 and put an Aimpoint on it", is at the top of the list.

nice :cool:

[decodeddiesel]

Problem solved, please ignore.

[ToddG]

Oh, sorry. I'll sell it immediately.

Lighten up, Francis. No one is telling you that your gun is malfunctioning when you're not looking or that it's plotting to explode at the next full moon. If it works for you, great.

If it's as great as you think, I'm sure we'll all be converts in a few years. Check back then.

[varoadking]

I recently bought an XDm 40 and absolutley love it.

Post an update for us in a year or so...


Oh, sorry. I'll sell it immediately. The above mentioned thread contains mostly emotional responses. I prefer to form my own conclusions from actual experience. Which is, Glocks are extremely reliable and are accurate, but they are not the be-all end-all defense gun (at least not for me). I, so far, think the XDm is a superior platform (again, at least for me). I won't sneer at you for being a Glock lemming, please don't disparage me for having a different opinion. And also, of course the Glock is more prevelant and well known. Its had a twenty year headstart!! By all means argue the merits and faults of each, but at least TRY and be objective instead of just regurgitating what some "operator" writes. I swear, if one of the forum "big dogs" said " O.k. everyone, crap in your hands and smear all over your heads" there would be 6 pages of responses saying "Oh yeah, thats the only way to go" or "Why hell, I've been doing that for twenty years" or "The OK Corral Tactical Anti-terrorism Class that I run stresses this rule above all others."

Pot calling the kettle black...

[decodeddiesel]

please ignore...

[thopkins22]

This should be tacked and pointed to the next time some one asks.

M_PYou jinxed it. This thread fell WAY off right after you posted that.;)

[ToddG]

http://9x19mm.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/koolaid%7E0.jpg

[ROADKING]

GLOCK 19 its like the powerstroke diesel it just keeps going, Built like a tank.

[jeffreywt]

I own many H&K pistols. I love them and they are great. I also own a Glock 19. It is my primary carry gun.

If someone asks me what all purpose pistol they should buy, I would, without hesistation, recommend the Glock 19.

[crusader377]

Getting back to the orginal question on the best handgun, I think their are probably a dozen different types of handguns that one can argue is the best. I personally think it largely boils down to personal preference. The best thing you can do is try to look at as many different types of handguns possible and decide which one works best for you. My two personal favorite handguns are the M1911and the Browning Hipower. But, I don't think you can go wrong with an HK, Glock, Beretta, S&W MP, Sig, or several other handguns.

[Gunfighter13]

I own Glocks, HKs, Kimbers, Colts, SIGs and soon an M&P. Out of all the guns I own, the best one is the one I have with me. All excel in their own areas, but the shooter makes the difference. Answer is “the one or ones you are trained on”.

[padwan]

A decade or so ago, I got a fair amount of trigger time with the USP's in 9 and 45 as well as the Mk 23. They all worked well enough but for me, they filled no need I had.

The USPs were a little to chunky for my hands, and like someone else mentioned, the trigger wasn't all that good. Usable, but the stock Glock trigger was better. Magazines for the USP were not easy to find back then, and whatever stock was available was damn pricey!

I have several buddies who jumped on the USP bandwagon who waited almost 16 months for their spare magazines to arrive. The guys who ordered extra recoil springs never saw their orders filled. Getting holsters and mag pouches were also challenging as the only Kydex people around were MD Labs and Cen Dex.

The Mk 23 was longer than a Desert Eagle (we compared them side-by-side). It flipped a lot, unless you installed the suppressor. For what I needed a pistol for, I saw nothing in the Mk 23 that my 1911 couldn't do.

I'm sure these guns fill a need with SOCOM or another organization. But we often forget that these units use the handgun as a secondary weapon, rather than a primary. The Mk 23 (for instance) was developed for a specific task that does not fall under most needs of the average CCW civilian.

Given the price of the HK guns, the quality of civilian after sales support and the specialized nature of some models, you are better off buying a Glock/M&P, ammo and enrolling in a course from LAV, Todd or any other competent trainer.

Just my own $0.02

[Dime Store Cowboy]

Ladies Ladies...
I just couldn't resist no longer.
Yeah I am new to write on this board but by far am I a "Newbie".
Now I am not a living legend, but I seen my fair share of wheel barrows full of bass, shot shells and have had my fill of confrontational delights in my past which to me are personal.

I just have to say:
You all are fighting about the top 2%, cream of the crop of all semi auto handguns here. And possibly all of ever been designed, produced and used.



Does such a beast as a "Best Handgun" exist???

I don't think so...
I think there are better platforms then others...

Look at the 1911...
How long it has reigned as "King"!!!
Look at how many have copied the basic function and operation of the Browning design.

The Glock also..
So many are now in the mainstay and being followed up by this pistola.
Poly is here to stay there is no doubt...

Still No one mentioned the German Luger???
Mauser Broom handle???
Browning High Power???
HK P7 ???
and many others that have made their mark somehow or another.

All fine platforms indeed!!!

But I have gritted my teeth all the way through this thread as no one mention a single word about a "Revolver".
No one has mentioned the Undisputed Champion of the "One Shot Stops" the 357 Mag.

What you don't think they qualify???

Do you think the Colt Python got a name just because it is a expensive piece???
The S&W J- Frames get labeled as a "Saturday Night Special" for nothing???
How do you think the S&W K&L -frames got named as such..
Combat Masterpiece, Distinguished Combat Magnum...

What about the what the legends( Keith, Jordan, Cooper etc) to mention a few spoke about???

Jordan has shot and had more kills on his S&W N-frame Model 27 and K-frame Model 19 during his Border Patrol days then confrontations of most folks!!!

Col. Cooper was plenty young enough to test the Poly guns up and against his beloved 1911.

I believe...
There is no such animal as a "Best Handgun"!!!
I have a copy of all that has been mentioned and thoroughly have tested them all to a great extent.
They all perform...in their own realm with most that over lap one another.
I have had many times two of the same gun and model, Cal... totally act different with me at the helm or someone else on the dial on a number of occasions.
So what does that say???
Nothing..they are worked and worked well!!

As mention in the past here in this thread.
The "Best Handgun" is the one in your hand that may one day save life. May it be yours or someone else's.


Feel fortunate that we live in country as great as the United States to have these luxuries to bitch about which and what is the "Best"!!!


Keep yer powder dry... ;)

ps.. want a real fight??? Read what LFI's Massad Ayoob says about the old cowboy "Lever Rifle" in 30-30 against the AR 15 platform for the homeowner or everyday Joe. See if you can disagree with him!!!

[30 cal slut]

Just some info on the Mark 23... That freakin' thing is huge, way to big to carry as a secondary weapon. It's slow out of the holster due to size, has a horrible DA trigger pull and overall not user friendly.... Plus HK are are too damn expensive. I think Glock or the SW M&P are both good choices.


ayup. and John_Wayne777 can personally tell what you he thinks of the Mk23 after having shot mine last summer.

for now, it's a safe queen and an interesting collector's piece. i would never use it for CCW because of the size. i'm not sure i'd have the confidence to use it as a home defense gun either, because of its trigger, which, frankly, sucks. and i'm not terribly fond of the USP triggers either.

Now ... on the OTHER HAND ... if you haven't checked out the HK45 ... which is a fairly different beast ... you should check it out.

[SHIVAN]

"That was easy!" ...

http://bp1.blogger.com/_9mkMK5gDNAQ/RrJ9B3ZW98I/AAAAAAAAAUM/Cajq7P7sK0s/s400/Picture+1.png



gpo1956
Banned

[decodeddiesel]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/decodeddiesel/Borat_High_Five_Red_Shirt.jpg

[pd75771]

HK is a good gun just ask the special ops team majority of them uses HK

[decodeddiesel]

HK is a good gun just ask the special ops team majority of them uses HK

Actually the majority use the M9 or P226 and not the Mk. 23.

[Irish]

Wonder why my post was deleted??? :confused:

[dialM4murder]

...because you're not in SOCOM.

I'll tell you the secret to the weapons and gear universe: What works well for unit X or person X might suck toilet water for you or for your purposes.

People often place too much emphasis on what some high-speed unit uses or doesn't use. The snag here is that what works great for a guy fast roping out of Blackhawk helicopters in 40 pounds of body armor and a Safariland thigh rig might not be the best choice for the guy who is trying to conceal a handgun to deal with less exotic (but no less deadly) threats found at the local stop-n-rob.

Now as to H&K handguns, they are good handguns. H&K overengineers their equipment as a general rule and that produces weapons that offer excellent service.

Still, that doesn't mean their offerings are ideal for you. When selecting a handgun for serious social purposes you have to consider the cost of the weapon, the cost and availability of spare magazines, the ease with which you can replace important components like sights, the cost and availability of spare parts, the selection of holsters available, the amount of training you will be able to do with the weapon, and last but most importantly, the intended use of the weapon you are considering..........

Exquisite post. Should be a sticky on every pistol forum.

[decodeddiesel]

Exquisite post. Should be a sticky on every pistol forum.

I would absolutely agree. The addition I would make is that the M&P9 may be a suitable substitute to the G17 or G19 if the user prefers the ergonomics and option of a thumb safety.

[dialM4murder]

Agreed, I have a thing for the full size M&P 9mm. Excellent pistol.

[G34Shooter]

One interesting note about HKs in general...

You almost never see them in the shooting sports. IPSC, IDPA, etc. are almost always HK free outside of a few folks with a desire to be "different", and the number of those same folks that are actually competitive with them is even smaller.

Now, playing isn't fighting, yadayadayada, but this has always been a huge red flag to me. Even those folks that come out and "run whatcha brung" for their first few matches very rarely stick with the HKs unless their department happens to issue it and mandate it. Hell, I see more Sigs and Beretta 92s in competition than I do long-term HK shooters.



Bruce Gray was probably the highest placing H&K competitor and listed a ton of reasons why the platform limited him from potentially doing better.

[DocGKR]

"HK is a good gun just ask the special ops team majority of them uses HK"

One of the more ignorant responses I have seen at M4C...

[ZDL]

One of the more ignorant responses I have seen at M4C...

lol lol

[dialM4murder]

One of the more ignorant responses I have seen at M4C...

Agreed.

[John_Wayne777]

HK is a good gun just ask the special ops team majority of them uses HK

Who in blue hell is the "special ops team"????

[ToddG]

Who in blue hell is the "special ops team"????

If ya gotta ask ...

[decodeddiesel]

Who in blue hell is the "special ops team"????

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/decodeddiesel/2009Mar24223407_16348.jpg

[montanadave]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/decodeddiesel/2009Mar24223407_16348.jpg

And, gentlemen, I think we've taken this discussion as far as it needs to go. If it's good enough for Packy and Botasky--it's good enough for me. Of course, now I need someone to identify the pistol Packy's packin'.

[decodeddiesel]

And, gentlemen, I think we've taken this discussion as far as it needs to go. If it's good enough for Packy and Botasky--it's good enough for me. Of course, now I need someone to identify the pistol Packy's packin'.

Why an HK of course. Haven't you heard? It's what all of the "spec ops teams" use. :p

[montanadave]

My bad. It should have been tautologically obvious to the most casual of observers.

[ToddG]

Of course, now I need someone to identify the pistol Packy's packin'.


Why an HK of course. Haven't you heard? It's what all of the "spec ops teams" use. :p


My bad. It should have been tautologically obvious to the most casual of observers.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/618GTF28D2L._SL500_AA240_.jpg

[gtmtnbiker98]

Wow, this has been an interesting thread, had to check and make sure I wasn't on another forum.... I am glad to see that some have a great sense of humor.;)

[mrosamilia]

There are a few basic truths in the shooting world. The above, as well as "Buy a Colt 6920 and put an Aimpoint on it", is at the top of the list.

Sweet Rob simple but true

[HK45]

If SOCOM uses HK, why shouldn't I seriously consider it?
The only HK handgun I know of going to spooky units is the Mk 23 which has gathered dust in armories at Coronado, Bragg, etc because it has no real useful purpose. It's big, clunky, and heavy, and is the epitome of a designed by committee handgun because it was. Plus it does nothing better than many other .45's. It was so obvious even to the originators of this firearm that they called it an offensive handgun. Yeah. The only written purpose I have seen for it is a manual that said to use it in hides. Yet a bunch of people have bought these boat anchors because of the "SOCOM" mystique.

Anyway.

M&P .45, HK 45/45c, Glock 30

[Al Swearengen®]

The best advice for the best handgun for anyone is: Try before you buy.

[Bobert0989]

H&K makes excellent firearms. You can argue that they aren't worth the premium but you can't really argue that they are top-drawer weapons.

The weapon resting in my top drawer right now is a Sig P6 9mm. It is the most comfortable hand-gun I have ever owned, meaning that it fits ME. I have tried the SAXD-40, the M&P 40, and a Glock 17 (among others, but these are common references). I havenever SHOT an HK, because I never could justify the cost to try it out. But even the USP .45 didn't quite feel as good in my palm as mi Sig. Plus, the Sig was MUCH cheaper, so the cost of it, plus 6 mags, night-sights, and plenty of ammo still rang-up cheaper than the HK would have.

I wont say for anything that the above mentioned weapons are BAD guns, but the Sig is what works best for me.

[Bob]

The only HK handgun I know of going to spooky units is the Mk 23 which has gathered dust in armories at Coronado, Bragg, etc because it has no real useful purpose. It's big, clunky, and heavy, and is the epitome of a designed by committee handgun because it was. Plus it does nothing better than many other .45's. It was so obvious even to the originators of this firearm that they called it an offensive handgun. Yeah. The only written purpose I have seen for it is a manual that said to use it in hides. Yet a bunch of people have bought these boat anchors because of the "SOCOM" mystique.

Anyway.

M&P .45, HK 45/45c, Glock 30


Isn't the USP Compact Tactical in some VERY limited use by some unit or other?

Regardless, if someone wanted to pick a handgun based solely on what special forces (globally, not just in the US) were using, it would be a P226 by a wide margin. I agree with everyone who has said that simply because a pistol is in use by group x or y doesn't mean it will be a good CCW pistol. (Though a P226 wouldn't be bad at all, just a bit on the larger side...)

[DARK-KNIGHT]

I would say get a Glock 19/17/23/22. I have been issued and carried HK USP 45's and am currently issued and carrying a Glock 22. I have personally owned Glocks for several years and feel that they are a great combat handgun for a fair price and there are plenty of spare parts available. BTW I have been carrying my G22 w/X200 for 5 years and have not had any of the malfunctions that I hear a lot of people talking about.

[Selftest]

I'm not adding anything already said here, but I'll put in another vote.

"Best" anything is very user subjective. I like Glocks, but they don't feel right to me, and no amount of work will change that. I like HK, I shoot them well, but do not own one. My Sig 226 is utterly reliable, and fits me perfectly. 1911s are very nice, and I will be picking one up very soon.

Buy and shoot what feels right to you. Glock, HK, Sig, M&P, and numerous 1911s are all reliable and will perform for you. Stay away from known failures, and stick with reputable brands, and you'll be more than okay.

[G-2]

Ourselves, Glocks 17(1st gen) & 19(2nd gen), Sig P220R SAO, Colt Pocketlite, Colt Jr., 2 shotties and several AR's (Colt, Noveske). Your mileage may differ. :cool:

[Rana]

The only HK handgun I know of going to spooky units is the Mk 23 which has gathered dust in armories at Coronado, Bragg, etc because it has no real useful purpose. It's big, clunky, and heavy, and is the epitome of a designed by committee handgun because it was. Plus it does nothing better than many other .45's. It was so obvious even to the originators of this firearm that they called it an offensive handgun. Yeah. The only written purpose I have seen for it is a manual that said to use it in hides. Yet a bunch of people have bought these boat anchors because of the "SOCOM" mystique.

Anyway.

M&P .45, HK 45/45c, Glock 30

For the most part the MK23 has been gone for a few years.

The majority of 23's are at Crane and have either been stored or destroyed.

The P226 NAVSOF and M9 SF are what is predominately used.

JSOC has been using Glocks(Army) and others in JSOC T&Eed various .45s. The closest thing to an HK pistol in issuence has been the MP7 as of late.

To put it bluntly "SOCOM" does not really use HK pistols.

For me the Glock 17/19 seem to be the best choice for the majority of shooters looking for a versatile pistol. If you can't get past the trigger then I suggest the SIG P226.

I am a hard-core 1911 advocate but I never recommend this platform to new shooters because it is generally expensive and requires more attention than an out of the box pistol ala G17 or P226.

[6933]

Been out for a week. Thought this thread was dead. Since the original post, I've learned a lot. Leaning towards picking up a 4th gen Glock for training, classes, daily use. Love my HK USP's but I can see the benefits of going Glock.

[DTHN2LGS]

The only HK I ever really liked was my P7.

Currently my choice is Glock 19, never a bad decision.

[High Tower]

Just wanted to add that I have a HK Mk23 and I love it. To me, it has no practical purpose whatsoever, but its fun to shoot and I love the unique-ness. And I don't have carney hands, so HK grips were never an issue. :D

To the OP - follow the advice here. Look around shoot various models and pick the one that works for you. If you really want an HK, look at the P30.

[markman]

I prefer 9mm Glocks. My favorites are the 17, 19 & 26. For the money , they can't be beat! Not trying to start any arguments, just my opinion.