View Full Version : Service Rifle Competiion Gun
I just sold my M1A Supermatch, and I want to be able to shoot Highpower service rifle competition. but my LMT MRP wont meet the requirements due to the removable iron sights!!!! bad rule in my opinion..they are the same sights as a colt M4 just removable and no handle. But anyway I was wondering if any one here had spent time with a Colt Match Target HBAR, and if so how accurate did yours shoot, and is the 1-9 twist barrel heavy fast enough for 77 and 80 grain VLD target bullets?
looks like availability is good for this rifle (1400 -1500$$)and would love to hear your thoughts,
Thanks
Patrick.
The rifle has to be in appearance the same as the service rifle. OD is allowed and now the removable carry handle is allowed.
You might be able to get by with those 77's, when I had my Colt 1n9, it shot the 262. I more than likely did because of the higher velocity. If going with the 1n9, I would stick with the 68/69 grain loads.
Ask yourself what you want to do with Highpower. Do you just want to go out and shoot with just a plain none free floated rifle and no gear such as a coat. Or do you want a nice match gun and all of the extra gear the can add up pretty quick.
I would suggest to go out with a stock gun and see if you like it and can spend the time with it. It all depends on what you want to do(or I should say can do(time/money, etc)
If buying-try to find a 1n7 HBAR, that way you can have a more useful barrel.
Check out some Highpower forums as well and another option is the upper alone built by some folks like Compass Lake Engineering. You could have a dual use lower also.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-index.pdf
http://www.compasslake.com/
http://www.jarheadtop.com/
http://www.sharkysdive.net/HighPowerShooting1.htm
http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16144
Compass Lake builds a heck of a rifle for the money.
I saw no Colt HBAR match rifles that still had 1:9 twist barrels at last years fleet matches. All ARs had 1:8 or faster twists. Some of the most accurate barrels were the Kriegers from Compass Lake. 1:9 is considered marginal for 77gr bullets, you could get lucky and have a slightly fast twist, or you could get one that is a touch slow and won't stabilize the rounds well enough for the 600 yard line.
Removeable carry handle rifles are allowed. You just need to get a good sight into a carry handle and make that carry handle stick to the upper really solid.
You could use your existing lower and just build a NM upper or have one built. White Oak and Compass Lake are two of the most widely recommended uppers around. Really their prices are not bad considering the current market.
12-20 weeks turn around though right now might keep you out of some of the military competitions as they start in a couple weeks. (At least for the Navy)
I lucked out and found a guy selling a complete upper that he wasn't going to use any more. I had my lower already set up with A2 stock and RRA match trigger. Now I ended up getting back surgery and won't be medically cleared in time for this season. But I'm ready equipment wise for next year.
As mark5pt56 was saying there is more to a NRA Service Rifle than being an A2. Floated handguards, good slings, Precision sights with 1/4 or 1/8 minute adjustments. Shooting coats, shooting mats, spotting scopes. (A lot of these items can be borrowed at matches) To be really competative in equipment there are a lot of things to consider. A lot of folks invest a lot in trying out service rifle matches and then get out of it. It isn't fast moving like many of the practical shooting matches. It can be uncomfortable. It relies on the shooter to be patient, but timely. You must know your rifle. Keeping logs is very important. Time spent in the target pit's is a right of passage enjoyed by all. There is little room for arguement. Most failures fall directly on teh shooter, because there isn't much else to blame a bad shot on when you're shooting a stripped down rifle without a bunch of doodads on it.
You learn to really appreciate truely good shooting and you'll know it when you see it, and you'll want to be capable of it. When you do good it's all you, when you do bad it's all you too.
I will tell you this, it will make you a better shooter. Even if you go out there with a stock rifle and also practice at home. Knowing your dope, reading the wind, markmanship skills, you will improve alot. Don't let anyone tell you it's some old fat mans discipline.
Read alot on it with the links and look for more. Some clubs do the reduced distance matches, they are fun as well. targets are smaller of course. I've heard some say there are harder.
Check out some message boards that are Highpower related, that way you can see who may be doing in in your area and link up with them.
Blackjack272
04-27-09, 07:30
Rock River Arms National Match A2 or A4.
A4 if you are going to do load development.
Take it to the range and shoot.
S/F
I will tell you this, it will make you a better shooter. Even if you go out there with a stock rifle and also practice at home. Knowing your dope, reading the wind, markmanship skills, you will improve alot. Don't let anyone tell you it's some old fat mans discipline.
Read alot on it with the links and look for more. Some clubs do the reduced distance matches, they are fun as well. targets are smaller of course. I've heard some say there are harder.
Check out some message boards that are Highpower related, that way you can see who may be doing in in your area and link up with them.
True words. Taking a stock rifle out and wringing all you can out of it is very challenging. Check out the appleseed project too for reduced distance matches and shooting clinics that may occur near you. The forum at the revoultionary war veterans site has good basic marksmanship tips, targets, and links to events accross the country.
You can also check out the Army Marksmanship Units web site and the U.S. Navy Shooting Team site for othe hints, links and schedules.
There is a thread on this site starting in the competition section as well.
I personally would get something faster than a 1/9. 77gr stuff is common and at some matches, you're required to use it. All of those mentioned are good. The RR and Compass Lake bangsticks are popular and very good. I had mine built by Fulton Armory and the attention to detail is second to none. Pay attention to the chamber specs as some of the stuff given at the matches are a lot of boolitt, e.g., MK262.
exkc135driver
04-27-09, 18:18
But anyway I was wondering if any one here had spent time with a Colt Match Target HBAR, and if so how accurate did yours shoot, and is the 1-9 twist barrel heavy fast enough for 77 and 80 grain VLD target bullets?
looks like availability is good for this rifle (1400 -1500$$)and would love to hear your thoughts.
Before you decide on an AR-based service rifle, check out both the Compass Lake and the White Oak websites. Then compare the price of:
> Option A: a CLE or WOA upper plus your choice of lowers (personally I think BM is fine for this) with a good 2-stage trigger
vs.
> Option B: a Colt Match Target HBAR
vs.
> Option C: an off-the-shelf so-called “competition-ready” gun (such as the one Bushmaster sells).
Option A will definitely be the best rifle. Depending on your choice of triggers (RRA vs CLE vs Jewell vs Geissele, etc.) it may also be the least expensive. If you go with options B or C you will at some point want to upgrade the rifle. You won’t need to do anything to the Option A rifle until you need a new barrel.
Thanks guys... I have shot High power with my M1A supermatch... that was THE cadillac of M1A's for sure... she was a 1/2 minute .308 12 lb. beast... Black Mcmillian and alll. Loved her. my very first match ever I shot a 697/800 with no coat and wearing my uniform using LC 7.62 Match from the mid 80's!
fun!
BUT, i want to shoot .556 high power and service rifle.
just one quick question...is my LMT CQB MRP with the stock back up iron sights...(they are A2 without the handle) legal for service rifle? I thought since the irons were removable it was not legal.
anyway after looking at the links and some reading... my plan is to go (not for sure yet) a WOA NM complete upper 1-7 or 1-8 krieger, lower ( dont know yet...maybe RR or another LMT. Geiselle trigger.
any other suggestions? would you go with a collapsable stock or not?
lets keep the suggestions comming on in, any WOA users out there?
The MRP isn't legal at least for CMP service match & also limiting yourself with the 16in. Rails on the handguards are not allowed.
The Flat-top would need to have a Carry handle for CMP/NRA Service Rifle class. (It can be a removeable carry handle) Also a fixed stock and non-railed issue type handguards.
Here's my Service Rifle ( A picture is worth a thousand words):
http://i41.tinypic.com/2qbeooz.jpg
You could have a removeable carry handle. You could have a flash hider (A1 or A2 are legal). You can have a bayonet lug.
Pay no attention to the fact that my sling is on backwards in this photo. You may use leather 1907 type sling or Web type sling as used on M1 Garand, or M14.
Stock may be A1 or A2 fixed.
Magazines may be either 20 straight body, or 30 round GI type mags
The sight may include a hooded aperture
Now with all that said, local clubs may allow different configuarations in their local matches, but they won't be eligible for CMP prizes or points etc.
http://i41.tinypic.com/hun15i.jpg
Good looking set up Chief! What's with the Panamanian Special Forces uniform?:p
Good looking set up Chief! What's with the Panamanian Special Forces uniform?:p
The Navy's new NWU (Navy Working Uniform). Replacing the utility uniform (dungarees and wash khaki). Introduced to the Kings Bay area this April. Been in Norfolk for a while longer.
(Paris Hilton voice on) "It's hot, isn't it" (Paris Hilton voice off):D
Just giving you a hard time. I don't think we'll see that in the battalions.
Naw. Navy personnel deploying for ground operations still rate MARPAT. or Desert tri-color or woodland as appropriate.
Is that a FMF pin I see on your avitar or a killer bee?
Got it.... gonna have to get a whole new rifle.... I hate it when that happens...
I was just thinking, while on the line at the Highpower matches... I NEVER paid any attention to the mouse guns :D(HaHA)...... but now that I am going to compete with them... I probably wont notice the M1A's.... Nope!;)
At the fleet matches last year I would say 90% of the rifles were ARs. One of the DMs was shooting one of his trophy Garands. (and doing quite well I might add).
My plan was to go for a WAP service upper, with a Kreiger barrel and a RRA lower with a Geissele trigger...but alas when I called WAP they said they were 22 weeks out on an upper!!!
SO.... I found a NIB, RRA Pre Ban CMP NM A4, 1/4x1/4, they have a 1in 8 Wilson match 20''barrel and all the standard stuff... 1450$
I will take the carry handle off and send it to John at WAP for a pin job.
I would like to know from the AR highpower service rifle shooters out there if you go for the lead in the front and rear for added mass, my M1A was 12.5 lbs with a sling and was nice to shoot a heavy rifle offhand especially up here in windy Montana....
if so any installation tricks?
Thanks
Patrick
I weighted mine in the front hand guard and butt stock. My offhand was terrible without it and since it's a match only gun, they never come out. The price you quoted seems a little high for what you can have built. Unless you need it now and can't wait then I'd entertain other builds for the price. The RRA is a fine gun though. A good friend legged his first EIC match and took High new shooter award which landed him a Sec. Nav rifle with the RR.
Unfortunately most all are 18-22 weeks out... cant wait till the summer is over to get a Service rifle ... I dont know of any "other builds " that are close in price for more performance and also available now...do you?
Thanks ..I will order the weights for sure... what is your total gun weight?
Did you have to do any funky install procedures to keep the lead from rattling around or changing position?
exkc135driver
04-29-09, 22:31
I would like to know from the AR highpower service rifle shooters out there if you go for the lead in the front and rear for added mass....
Yes, front and rear. My guns weigh in at 14 pounds, but hey, you won't be carrying them that far, especially if you use some type of cart.
http://www.nationalmatch.us
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