View Full Version : XCR first impressions
JustI got an XCR. I was originally going to order one with a 1:7 twist light barrel, but it was quoted as a 12 week wait. Instead saw one in a store with a 1:9 heavy, standard stock -- so got it. I hope to shoot 1000 rounds today suppressed side by side with an AR, and see which goes further. I will also add my impressions. My concerns so far, before shooting it, are:
1. Engraving on gas system extremely hard to see.
2. Ejector uses bolts. This is not really good practice on a firearm.
3. Bolt hold-open mechanism uses a small pin. Looks like a failure point.
4. Bolt hold-open lever uses a hex-head screw. This might fall out.
5. Trigger spring is chrome plated. I have never seen this kind of spring in a gun before and it makes me wonder what kind of spring wire it is.
6. Barrel is held in by one hex-screw. I would think two would be the way to go.
Otherwise, the basic design of the rifle seems outstanding all the way from the ergonomics to the mechanism to the 3-lugged bolt face.
Today I shot it and have some real experience:
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4626/img3151.jpg
XCR with 1:9 twist 16 inch heavy barrel, KAC M4-QD silencer.
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9281/img3161.jpg
During test, KAC rail panels would slide off. This is because the rail does not have the index points of the KAC, Daniel Defense, or some other military-adopted rails.
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2821/img3164.jpg
Rail has center milled out. This prevents it from being within Picatinny 1913 specs. Several accessories will not properly mount, including the KAC SOPMOD vertical grip.
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9379/img3174y.jpg
Suppressed pretty well but I will sound meter it to be sure. I would like to either get a light barrel, or shorter or flute this one. I may weld on a silencer with an 11 inch barrel.
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2046/img3191.jpg
The gas piston tube was crushed on one side of the cutout when I got the rifle from the dealer. After shooting, the other side of the cutout was crushed also.
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/954/img3193a.jpg
Seems to be hitting the upper.
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/9215/img3195e.jpg
Gas knob seems like a nice mechanism. Mine is almost impossible to read. The smallest hole was 0.042, which was still too larger for a KAC SOPMOD silencer. Brass was ejecting about 30 feet with M955 ammo.
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1788/img3196p.jpg
I am concerned about the bolt hold-open pin on the left. It seems like it could be beefier. I don't think this would pass a military trial without that part being redesigned.
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/5982/img3197.jpg
Bolt release is held in place by hex-screw. This may be ok, but it would seem a pin should be used.
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8814/img3198.jpg
Ejector is held in place by two bolts. These should be rivets if one caliber could be decided on. They should come factory drilled for safety wire.
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/896/img3201.jpg
Planned to shoot 1000 rounds today. At about 780 rounds I noticed that the barrel had come lose and shooting was terminated for the day. Before shooting, I made sure this bolt was very tight. A single bolt is not acceptable. The FN SCAR has four bolts and they have a secondary retaining mechanism. This needs two bolts, and they should have a spring-loaded ratchet which prevents rotation. I will have to safety wire this one for now.
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2193/img3203.jpg
Gas block held in place by a single set screw. This should have two taper pins from the side.
Until the barrel screw backed out, the shooting was great. It was very reliable up until that point. The gas block would benefit from white letters and maybe a larger diameter dial so that it is easier to see and turn.
The standard folding stock worked well. The controls were nice. I like the bolt release and selector.
Thank you very much for that thorough review. I had considered an XCR at one point but ended up going a different route. I just wasn't sure about and when I had the opportunity to handle one, something just didn't work for me. Now, I am doubly glad I went with my instincts and stayed away.
Cheers,
I cannot stand the slot cut down the picatinny rail.
Also, the bolt release could be made larger and be pinned to the plunger but RA thought they had to use a AR15 trigger guard and made the lower accept this when they could have beefed up this area and made their own trigger guard.
Thanks for the review. I had a few questions about the XCR and your review answered them perfectly. I cannot believe that the barrel is held in place by a single screw. :eek: That is a weaker setup that I had imagined.
variablebinary
04-28-09, 23:44
You didn't realize KAC panels didn't lock into place till you got the range :confused:
Yes, I knew they did not lock before I shot.
rs,
Thanks for a nice technical write up on the XCR. In your opinion is this weapon "grunt proof" as it is right now?
RS, thanks for posting. Looking forward to more updates. You pretty much hit on my basic concerns. I'll be interested to see how they play out.
nice review,
I wish the XCR was available here... :(
luckly the problems you reported seem easy to fix...I'm sure Robinson will update newer rifles.
Yes, they are easy to fix and I hope they do. The basic platform has a lot going for it. I like the layout, features, and it seemed reliable aside from the bolt. As for grunt proof, I am not sure I would want a rifle grunt proof. For example, I want adjustable gas, but is that ever grunt proof? The barrel bolt is not grunt proof as it requires a torque wrench. At least people are telling me they only saw a failure like mine when it was not torqued to spec, so that means it is very important to torque it to a certain spec. I made it as tight as felt I could without stripping something. If it had two bolts and a retainment mechanism it would become much less critical to torque it to a certain spec as the bolts would not be able to back out. For now I will safety wire it.
Most "grunts" would be relying on someone else at the armorer level to worry about the screw for the barrel, so that part is a non-issue in that regard. I agree that it would be nice to see two screws/bolts holding the barrel on, as well as a mechanism to keep them from un-screwing other than torque/locktite/wishful thinking.
So off the self, the weapon did not even stand up to 1,000 rounds? That is unacceptable.
Good review.
You didn't realize KAC panels didn't lock into place till you got the range :confused:
VB,
I thought you would have more insight than what you posted above.
Dave,
Could you imagine that barrel coming loose during a contact? Talk about a Jesus moment. It would be like the time my T/L's BM bolt sheared in half. :eek:
So off the self, the weapon did not even stand up to 1,000 rounds? That is unacceptable.
Good review.
Dave,
Could you imagine that barrel coming loose during a contact? Talk about a Jesus moment. It would be like the time my T/L's BM bolt sheared in half. :eek:
2 weeks ago, I got issued a select fire BM Carbon 15 lower. I pulled the charging handle back and the RE tube was not screwed in far enough; the BCG ripped the buffer retaining pin out of the hole back into the RE tube, mangling the spring.
The castle nut was not staked either; I dismantled the entire rear of the weapon with no tools :eek:
It runs fine now, but out of about 30 guys I work with, two of us know how to repair AR's.
A combat weapon needs to be grunt proof.
*The carrier key was not staked either.
A Carbon 15 lower? Are you FFR? Please say it isn't so about the carrier key, castle nut, etc....I am thoroughly shocked by this. BTW- I have an extra buttstock wrench and a few other things that you can and or pass on to your guys if you need it. Just let me know and I'll get some stuff together.
2 weeks ago, I got issued a select fire BM Carbon 15 lower. I pulled the charging handle back and the RE tube was not screwed in far enough; the BCG ripped the buffer retaining pin out of the hole back into the RE tube, mangling the spring.
The castle nut was not staked either; I dismantled the entire rear of the weapon with no tools :eek:
It runs fine now, but out of about 30 guys I work with, two of us know how to repair AR's.
A combat weapon needs to be grunt proof.
*The carrier key was not staked either.
Thomas M-4
04-29-09, 12:28
2 weeks ago, I got issued a select fire BM Carbon 15 lower. I pulled the charging handle back and the RE tube was not screwed in far enough; the BCG ripped the buffer retaining pin out of the hole back into the RE tube, mangling the spring.
The castle nut was not staked either; I dismantled the entire rear of the weapon with no tools :eek:
It runs fine now, but out of about 30 guys I work with, two of us know how to repair AR's.
A combat weapon needs to be grunt proof.
*The carrier key was not staked either.
Thats screwed up man. Very sorry you have to deal with that crap especially going into harms way. Did bushmaster send it out that way or did some one screw with it before it was issued to you if you don't mind me asking?
Thats screwed up man. Very sorry you have to deal with that crap especially going into harms way. Did bushmaster send it out that way or did some one screw with it before it was issued to you if you don't mind me asking?
For the most part yes, BM sells them that way. Just one of the many reasons I don't invest any of my own money in BM. We have had them show up with all kinds of odd parts. I saw some BGC's that had small diameter carrier key screws (on the head), it was not even possible to stake such a screw.
...but anyway. I don't want to deter from this thread any more. If anyone wants to know more feel free to PM me. \
[hijack off]
flanntastic
04-29-09, 15:52
i have had mine for a few years and never even checked the barrel retaining screw!
i have had mine for a few years and never even checked the barrel retaining screw!
I think the longest shoot I've done on my XCR without field stripping was a 1300rd training course in Arizona. Lots of blowing sand and 110 degree temps. The barrel never loosened up. I do have blue loctite on my ejector bolts as a precaution, but have never had them loosen up either.
I'm surprised at the level of wear that rsilvers has on his gas tube. He must have something out of spec as I've never seen that kind of wear on any XCR. No telling what the previous owner did to it.
rsilvers, you must have some sort of prototype gas valve on your XCR. I ordered the newer gas system last year and the lettering is very visible. The XCR gas system has undergone several major changes since 2004 to improve it. Here's mine:
http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr169/sgalbra76/IMG_1360.jpg
My XCR was bought in the summer of 2006. RA had a recall of their bolt in 2006 as it was experiencing some inertia problems causing some slam fires. FN had the same recall on their FS2000. Later, RA came out with the upgraded gas system which I bought in early 2008. My RA has very little visible wear on parts and I have used it extensively in carbine classes and on duty. I would say that I probably have close to 15k rounds through it. Overall, I prefer it to any M4 I've used in the service. I can't comment on the SCAR, HK416, or Massada and if they would be superior to the XCR since I don't really have any trigger time on any of them.
I'm surprised at the level of wear that rsilvers has on his gas tube. He must have something out of spec as I've never seen that kind of wear on any XCR. No telling what the previous owner did to it.
I bought it new. Robarms said they do not heat treat that tube and it is typical for them to get chewed up some in the beginning.
I bought it new. Robarms said they do not heat treat that tube and it is typical for them to get chewed up some in the beginning.
Mine isn't chew up at all after 15k rounds. I'm guessing that either someone assembled it wrong, or the parts are out of spec. I'd send RA some good pictures of your problem.
variablebinary
04-30-09, 10:41
Where did you buy that gun? Was it new.
You dont have the current generation gun.
I had and sold an XCR. This is my second it has performed well. I have no complaints
It's in the middle of a couple of changes and I am experimenting with my new T1
http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/xcrt1.jpg
My XCR was bought in the summer of 2006. RA had a recall of their bolt in 2006 as it was experiencing some inertia problems causing some slam fires. FN had the same recall on their FS2000. Later, RA came out with the upgraded gas system which I bought in early 2008. My RA has very little visible wear on parts and I have used it extensively in carbine classes and on duty. I would say that I probably have close to 15k rounds through it. Overall, I prefer it to any M4 I've used in the service. I can't comment on the SCAR, HK416, or Massada and if they would be superior to the XCR since I don't really have any trigger time on any of them.
The above reinforces one of the perceptions I've had about RA for quite some time: they treat their customers as beta-testers.
Yes it was new. The dealer said the shipment was a few months ago, so 2009.
I am sure they would give me a new gas tube if I asked but I am in no hurry so I will do it the next time I need parts.
I've got probably 15K or more through mine and the front of the gas tube is showing some wear on both sides of the notch. It is more of a trapezoid now, but it doesn't rattle nor does affect functioning. I can't see when the gun is together so I don't worry about it.
You know it's possible that he got a lemon. No one is immune from screwing up a gun.
Where did you buy that gun? Was it new.
You dont have the current generation gun.
I had and sold an XCR. This is my second it has performed well. I have no complaints
It's in the middle of a couple of changes and I am experimenting with my new T1
http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/xcrt1.jpg
My gun is fine. Nothing failed except the bolt on the barrel. As I said I would expect that to happen. Maybe I had 180 inch pounds rather than 'no more than 200' as the manual says to use.
My gun is fine. Nothing failed except the bolt on the barrel. As I said I would expect that to happen. Maybe I had 180 inch pounds rather than 'no more than 200' as the manual says to use.
What if you put blue locktite or teflon tape on the screw?
I would use Rocksett. Blue is not rated for high enough temps.
My plan is to use a torque wrench and set the torque to between 16 and 20 fp. The manual says 200 inch lbs and any more will damage the rifle, but now they are saying 250 online. I know a 7mm hex is rated in that range. I would have used Torx but that is just me. Some feel Torx is too uncommon but I think every hardware store has them and that is common enough. I will then paint on a witness mark and forget about it.
rs,
You stated that there was an issue with the gas tube getting chewed up. Others have said that it shouldn't be happening. IMHO that is either a design flaw or it has to do with your particular weapon.
My gun is fine. Nothing failed except the bolt on the barrel. As I said I would expect that to happen. Maybe I had 180 inch pounds rather than 'no more than 200' as the manual says to use.
I would use Rocksett. Blue is not rated for high enough temps.
Yeah, I guess that would be better.
I would have used Torx but that is just me. Some feel Torx is too uncommon but I think every hardware store has them and that is common enough. I will then paint on a witness mark and forget about it.
Can't you replace the screw with one with a Torx head?
Did you ever e-mail or talk to RA or Alex? This should be brought to there attention quickly!
Yes, they know about this.
I have a XCR-L on order and am very curious on how this will turn out. No doubt that RA will take care of this but please keep us informed.
Stan
Thanks for the very interesting detailed range report. :) It's these kind of range reports that look at all the fine details of a weapon that are really helpful to shooters.
Until those problems/weaknesses are fixed, I wouldn't consider buying one. Probably better to go with an LWRC, the new M6A3's seem to be quite polished from what we've seen/heard so far. Excellent customer service if there's ever any problem, too.
I have not had the gastube or barrel screw problems on mine either. Probably have 2000 5.56 and 1000 7.62x39 through mine, also mine is an older model that had some of the older features updated when I got the conversion kit.
The only thing I dont like about it are the out of spec rails and loose/noisy bolt catch.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5430/p4210005.jpg
I need to get around to ordering a break for it.
Yes it was new. The dealer said the shipment was a few months ago, so 2009.
I am sure they would give me a new gas tube if I asked but I am in no hurry so I will do it the next time I need parts.
I dont think that gun is from 2009. I think VB is right, that is not the latest version of the XCR. Look at the trigger guard, the 2009 models all have a milled trigger guard.
lionheart3
10-25-09, 18:24
SO, is XCR reliable ? :confused:
if you have NEW 6.8 XCR with the new style bolt catch, and barrell bolt fastened to 200 and Barrett mags :
Would you trust your life to it ? :confused:
SO, is XCR reliable ? :confused:
if you have NEW 6.8 XCR with the new style bolt catch, and barrell bolt fastened to 200 and Barrett mags :confused:
Barrell bolt fastened to 200? What does this mean? Barrett mags? Same here? :confused:
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