Clearing the stove pipe

[Redhat]

I know there have been discussions here on favorite immediate/remedial action techniques, but I still have a question concerning the stove pipe and double feed.

Stove pipe

I have frequently seen a round in the chamber with the brass protruding out the ejecton port, what is the best way to clear it? If you slap the brass out the bolt closes but the hammer may not be cocked. Is it better to just remove the magazine, charge the weapon and eject the round in chamber?

Double feeds

Some favor removing the mag and charging the weapon 3 times. Others say it is best to lock the bolt to the rear and remove the rounds with the fingers. I have also been advised to lock the bolt back first to enable easier removal of the magazine prior to applying either of the above techniques.

The last training I attended had two basic rules.

When you press the trigger:

If you get "mush" - Rip magazine out, charge 3 times, reload , charge and drive on

If you get "click" - Push /pull, charge and drive on.

What do you say?

Thanks

[Zhurdan]

I have been taught the following, and it seems to work well.

Stovepipe

1. Tap (magazine)
2. Rack and flip (rotate outward while racking to clear)
3. Reassess

Double Feed

1. Rip and retain (magazine)
2. Rack, rack, rack.
3. Reinsert (magazine)
4. Rack and reassess.

Retaining the magazine is kind of a sour point for me. If it's in the middle of something along the lines of say... HOLY SHIZNITTOBAMSAMPSON-y, I'd rather just rip it and drop it, but that all matters on how many mags (if any) you have left.

I think for the most part, terminology is mostly what changes with these kinds of malfunctions. I liked that my instructors didn't just add "BANG" to the end of each, as it needs to be a conscious decision every time, not just a reaction.

[Redhat]

Zhurdan,

The thing to consider is if you are dealing with a stove pipe and there is already a round in the chamber, racking the bolt without removing the mag first will drive another round out of the mag into the rear of the round in the chamber which makes matters worse.

[Zhurdan]

Not saying it can't happen, but I've never seen a stovepipe with one in the chamber, in 15 years of shooting the 1911, I've just never seen it.

Stovepipes happen for a couple of reasons. The main reason being that it was a limp wristed shot (sloppy form, fear, adrenaline, one handed, off hand). Other reasons being a low power load (misthrown powder or something). Generally speaking, if there's enough momentum in the slide to strip another round, (save an extractor or linkage problem) there's enough recoil energy to eject the empty. That being said, extractor or linkage problems are gonna put your gun nearly outta the fight to begin with, so throw it at 'em (jk). The assessment required to really tell if it's a lvl2 or a lvl3 malfunction really takes too much time, so based similarly on what you said earlier about click vs. mush, you're really kind of counting on that to determine what to do. Standing around assessing the problem will take longer than simply doing the tap, rack, reassess. If that doesn't work, move to the rip, rack, etc. etc. If none of that works, throw it at 'em. hehe

I've just never seen it happen, doesn't mean it can't. Either way, It'd probably take me longer to look at the gun to determine what's wrong than to simple do those two drills until the weapon is functional again.

You are right in that the second procedure will solve 99% of problems, but it takes longer than the tap, rack, reassess.

Zhur

[Redhat]

Zhur,

Sorry, I wasn't thinking about handguns but the AR series weapons. :)

v/r

Redhat

[theJanitor]

stovepipe:

i rotate the gun, ejection port side up
sweep away the brass,
re-aqcuire target
fire if needed
if there is no BANG, i rack, and re-acquire


doublefeed: ( i verbalize each step, it helps me remember what i need to do and help me "time" my motions)

lock the bolt to the rear
get rid of the mag
rack
rack
rack
insert new mag
rack
re-acquire

[Zhurdan]

Zhur,

Sorry, I wasn't thinking about handguns but the AR series weapons. :)

v/r

Redhat


My bad. I'm so sorry. I was totally in handgun mode. I totally didn't think about where I was. I feel a bit foolish now. Personally, I'm a pistol person. I signed up here to learn more about rifles and carbines and just blurted it out. My apologies.

Zhur

[Redhat]

Zhur,

No problem...welcome aboard!

[Failure2Stop]

Not a whole lot to add other than to agree with others-

Stove-pipe-
Cant
Tap
Rack
Re-engage

While it is possible to have a stove-pipe and have a live round on the way to the chamber the only time I have seen them is either with a short-stroke, in which case there will not be a live round fed or if the ejection port is blocked. Another option is to simply pull out the offending piece of brass or to sweep the round out by a forward sweep of the hand. These are usually used during yellow-glasses type of events where immediacy of action is greatly reduced.
I have seen bad ejectors that lead to the one live, one fired double-feed, which brings us to your second point. . .

I use the following, which is a slight departure from what I teach-

If I can see the problem-
Remove mag
Lock bolt to the rear
Rip out the mag (this is the point where most double feeds will fall free. If so, skip to the last step)
-If a side by side double feed is evident, roll the gun over and finger-bang the front of the magwell, striking the stuck rounds on the lugs, allowing them to fall free.
Release the bolt and rack (at this point the round in the chamber should be ejected, if you are dealing with an inline double-feed, unless you fail to fully cycle the bolt or are suffering part breakage)
If something is pulled out of the chamber, reload, rack, and shoot.
If you can't see anything come out rack the bolt 3X, leaving the bolt forward on the last rack.
Reload, rack and shoot.

If I can't see the problem-
Lock
Rip
Finger
Rack Rack Rack
Reload
Rack
Shoot

[Redhat]

Thanks F2S,

As usual I'm looking for one simple standardized way that's "so easy a cave man could do it" because of the subject matter audience (non gun folks).

You all have helped immensely!

[Redhat]

F2S,

I noticed you said a slight departure from what you teach?

What do you "teach"?