View Full Version : 1911s and hollowpoints
QuickStrike
05-03-09, 05:30
My SA mil-spec has been feeding perfect with ball ammo for a little over 3 thousand rounds...
Tried to chamber a gold dot hollowpoint the other day. No worky. The first round in the mag would always get in a 3 point jam (round contacts magazine feed lips, feed ramp & slide).
The rest after the first round would sometimes feed and sometimes not...
Should I try mags with a follower that places the rounds higher/at a better angle? Which mags?
Should I just accept the 1911 design's weird ramp angle and try different ammo?
Edit: mags used were factory mags and McCormick's power 10's.
My SA mil-spec has been feeding perfect with ball ammo for a little over 3 thousand rounds...
Tried to chamber a gold dot hollowpoint the other day. No worky. The first round in the mag would always get in a 3 point jam (round contacts magazine feed lips, feed ramp & slide).
The rest after the first round would sometimes feed and sometimes not...
Should I try mags with a follower that places the rounds higher/at a better angle? Which mags?
Should I just accept the 1911 design's weird ramp angle and try different ammo?
Edit: mags used were factory mags and McCormick's power 10's.
I know several friends that have similar problems. There are three solutions that I am aware of.
First, you can try different ammo. Some rounds such as federal hydrashocks worked just find but hornady tap did not, or vice versa for that matter, in the weapons that I have seen.
The other thing to consider is that on the mil spec 1911 from SA there is no feedramp. Other versions of 1911's from SA such as the operator, have a Wilson barrel with a feedramp, which goes a long way toward solving that problem. A new barrel may be what you need.
Finally, if you have not already bought some Wilson mags I would encourage you to do so. I am unaware of better mags for the 1911 platform.
One of those three, or all, should fix your situation. If you go with the new mags and barrel, you will probably be able to fire pretty much whatever ammo you want.
Long story short, 1911's are like AR's in that they are pure money pits...;)
Hope that helps!
Jason
As far as I know, the SA Milspecs do not have a throated barrel so they will not feed most JHPs. You need to either have the barrel throated or stick to FMJ designs for defense ammo like Corbon Powerball or Federal EFMJ.
I know I am opening this thread up to getting derailed, but the closest "hollowpoint" round that you will find that will feed reliablly in your SA will be the Corbon (Glaser) Powerball:
http://www.dakotaammo.net/art/065.gif
http://www.dakotaammo.net/art/028_06.gif
https://www.dakotaammo.net/shop/
As far as I know, the SA Milspecs do not have a throated barrel so they will not feed most JHPs. You need to either have the barrel throated or stick to FMJ designs for defense ammo like Corbon Powerball or Federal EFMJ.
Not trying to start an argument here but it is my understanding that while the GI does not have a throated barrel, the Mil-Spec actually does. Perhaps I am incorrect though. Hard to remember with 1911's sometimes, there are so many people making them and so many varieties out there. And I am by no means an expert when it comes to 1911's in the first place... :)
{...} it is my understanding that while the GI does not have a throated barrel, the Mil-Spec actually does. . :)
Bingo. From the Springfield site:
http://springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=7
"A step up from the GI, the Milspec includes many improvements utilized by the US Military during the 1911's years of service. These features include: High-profile 3-dot sights, high-hand grip, beveled magazine well, polished feed ramp and throated barrel, lowered and flared ejection port, and angled slide serrations."
A Milspec should absolutely feed JHP ammo, with no problem. Call Springfield Customer service, they'll take care of you. If necessary they'll ship it back and fix it at their own expense, and you will almost certainly get something nice out of the deal, like a match barrel, a free pistol tune-up, etc. That's usually what they do in these kinds of cases.
I'd echo the comment about getting other mags; even 8 rd CMCs rather than the 10rd ones. Try dropping a new recoil spring in as well.
I would try out Wilson magazine and Chip McCormack 8 round Power Mags. Those have fed the following loads well through a GI Ithaca, a 1967 Colt GM, a 1991 Colt Commander, and a SA TRP.
- 230 grain Winchester Ranger
- 230 grain Federal HST
- 230 Winchester Personal Defense JHP
- 200 and 230 grain Hornady TAP
I haven't tried Gold Dots in these and 230 grain GDs are probably more challenging. But I'm impressed by the new magazines when my old stock 1911's feed JHPs.
I'm inclined to second JHC's advice about mags. My SA Mil Spec has as much love for hollow points as it does for ball, and has a certain affinity for Hornady TAP. I've used CMC Powermags almost exclusively, though. If it persists across different ammo and mags, I suggest making good on the outstanding Springfield Armory customer service. ;)
-B
QuickStrike
05-03-09, 14:00
Thanks gents, I will try some new mags and maybe put some Ranger T's through it when I can find some.
Jason Burton
05-03-09, 14:08
There are allot of variables at work to make a properly feeding and reliable 1911... magazines, bullet profile, feed-ramp geometry, barrel throat, extractor tension/geometry, plus a host of others. While a different magazine and different bullet/bullet shape may very well “fix” your problem there is no reason to believe that your shouldn’t be able to reliably feed the Gold Dot bullet, the gun may just need a bit of tuning to get it there.
Take your gun to a 1911 specialist, tell him what you would like to accomplish, and let him do his work.
In the mean time, for if nothing more than your piece of mind, it may be worth while to try a more conventional magazine such as an 8rd McCormick Power-Mag and/or a Wilson 47/47d. You can certainly also try other bullet designs but with the current cost and availability of ammo this could quickly get expensive and, if a different magazine doesn’t "fix" your problem, you may find the result is no different.
...The other thing to consider is that on the mil spec 1911 from SA there is no feedramp. Other versions of 1911's from SA such as the operator, have a Wilson barrel with a feedramp, which goes a long way toward solving that problem. A new barrel may be what you need.
Without seeing the gun I would tend to disagree with the assessment that you may need a new barrel, much less one with an integral feed-ramp. As long as your gun isn’t horribly out of spec and/or hasn’t been previously monkey’d with there is no reason your gun/barrel cannot be made to feed the Gold Dot bullet.
QuickStrike
05-03-09, 14:42
There are allot of variables at work to make a properly feeding and reliable 1911... magazines, bullet profile, feed-ramp geometry, barrel throat, extractor tension/geometry, plus a host of others. While a different magazine and different bullet/bullet shape may very well “fix” your problem there is no reason to believe that your shouldn’t be able to reliably feed the Gold Dot bullet, the gun may just need a bit of tuning to get it there.
Take your gun to a 1911 specialist, tell him what you would like to accomplish, and let him do his work.
In the mean time, for if nothing more than your piece of mind, it may be worth while to try a more conventional magazine such as an 8rd McCormick Power-Mag and/or a Wilson 47/47d. You can certainly also try other bullet designs but with the current cost and availability of ammo this could quickly get expensive and, if a different magazine doesn’t "fix" your problem, you may find the result is no different.
Without seeing the gun I would tend to disagree with the assessment that you may need a new barrel, much less one with an integral feed-ramp. As long as your gun isn’t horribly out of spec and/or hasn’t been previously monkey’d with there is no reason your gun/barrel cannot be made to feed the Gold Dot bullet.
Thanks for the advice Mr. Burton. I was going to send it off to springfield's custom shop later anyway.
Maybe something like:
Reliability job (will mention gold dots)
Replace MIM parts
Better sights
beavertail
fit like 3 spare extractors (lol)
EGW Oversized firing pin stop
maybe a new barrel + bushing
Hard to imagine more that would need to be done to a Mil Spec for reliability. Durability might mean replacing certain problematic MIM parts, but the pistols are pretty damn reliable as is. I need to replace the recoil spring in mine by now, but otherwise it's served me as well as I could ever hope for in a handgun.
-B
flyboy1788
05-03-09, 20:23
Not trying to start an argument here but it is my understanding that while the GI does not have a throated barrel, the Mil-Spec actually does. Perhaps I am incorrect though. Hard to remember with 1911's sometimes, there are so many people making them and so many varieties out there. And I am by no means an expert when it comes to 1911's in the first place... :)
my mil-spec has a throated barrel, polished feed ramps and it eats winchester hollow points like candy using factory mags.
Springfield Mil-Specs have had fully throated barrels for a long time now. How many rounds (HP) have you tried in it? I have never seen the feeding problems that are claimed to be inherent of the 1911. 1940s Rem Rand, 70s Colt, 1980s SA, 1999 SA, all feed everything from wadcutters to snakeshot without a blink. I would guess mag issues, but SA mags are all that I run. I would suggest running another 50+ HPs through the gun and seeing if it straightens itself out. After that I would send it back to SA if it doesn't correct itself.
FWIW: Clint Smith claims to carry 230gr FMJ for absolute reliability in self defense, although I do not find this necesarry.
Rayrevolver
05-03-09, 21:31
Sorry to thread jack but...
My buddy has a new Kimber (base model Custom II, I believe) that was reliable with Blazer Brass 230 and Double Tap JHPs. Maybe 1000 or so FMJs and 200 JHPs.
He just got in a case of Ranger T +P (RA45TP) and we went to range today to run it through the weapon.
He had some FTEs with all the mags, a stock Kimber mag with Tripp spring, 2 CMC 8 rounders with Tripp followers and springs (now 7 rounders), and a full up Tripp Mag. There were clean mags but a whole lot of FTEs in 200 rounds.
I told him he was the problem and then proceeded to shoot it myself. On round 5 I had an FTE.:( Dang it.
I would have thought the profile of the Ranger T was maybe hitting the feed ramp but then the spent case was being held by the extractor a little and slammed forward into the top of the barrel hood. The spent case should have been ejected, right?
I told him he should send it back but he wants to trouble shoot a little himself. I guess thats fine and a good way to learn about the 1911. Any ideas where a FNG could start to tinker? I did a quick search of "Kimber FTE" and things point to the extractor and extractor tension.
Should he bother with "tuning" the extractor or just buy a new extractor?
QuickStrike
05-04-09, 02:10
I told him he should send it back but he wants to trouble shoot a little himself. I guess thats fine and a good way to learn about the 1911. Any ideas where a FNG could start to tinker? I did a quick search of "Kimber FTE" and things point to the extractor and extractor tension.
Should he bother with "tuning" the extractor or just buy a new extractor?
Honestly I would just send it to someone for trouble shooting, but I'm mechanically challenged and impatient as hell so...
Gunfighter13
05-04-09, 02:46
Honestly I would just send it to someone for trouble shooting, but I'm mechanically challenged and impatient as hell so...
This may sound to easy but. Do this. Put a drop of oil on your finger and rub the feed ramp. Then try to load the gun. I to tend to dry out some parts of my guns when I clean them. 1911s do not like to be dry. If it works look for any irregular or rough spots on the ramp and barrel.
I must agree with those who send their guns to good 1911 smiths for a reliability package. No stock 1911 is totally reliable with out this check. I have many different 1911s, but I only carry Wilsons and a Remington G.I. that I had Terry Tussey do the "package" on. That said every gun feeds whatever I give it, with Wilson mags and a 18 pound recoil spring. The only exception to that is wad cutters, which do reliably feed if you use a lighter recoil spring so they will eject. This is due to the wad cutters utilizing lower pressure loadings for target use only. Just my two bits. Oh, and by the way Treey Tussey may be reached at Tussey Custom Gunsmithing, 24 Moonlight Rd #A Moundhouse, Nevada 89706. Phone number1-775-246-1533 Tuesdays thru Saterdays. Tussey has done guns for police departments in the Orange County area of California for years prior to moving to Nevada. He is very fair in his pricing and does very high quality work. :D
My SA mil-spec has been feeding perfect with ball ammo for a little over 3 thousand rounds...
Tried to chamber a gold dot hollowpoint the other day. No worky. The first round in the mag would always get in a 3 point jam (round contacts magazine feed lips, feed ramp & slide).
The rest after the first round would sometimes feed and sometimes not...
Should I try mags with a follower that places the rounds higher/at a better angle? Which mags?
Should I just accept the 1911 design's weird ramp angle and try different ammo?
Edit: mags used were factory mags and McCormick's power 10's.
If your milspec will not function with gold dots, you should call Springfield and let them try to fix it first. Usually they will tell you to ship the gun back on their dime and have their smiths take a look at it. That may solve your problem and you will not be out of any cash. IF that doesn't solve your issues, then by all means contact another gunsmith.
On the mag issue, I don't like any 10 round magazines, but my carry ammo is gold dots and functions just fine out of any of my 1911s as long as I use either Wilson mags or CMC 8 rd. powermags.
421Mike,
How many more flawless rounds does my TRP have to feed, fire and eject from day one to be as totally reliable as one tuned by a quality smith? Mine is only up to about 1500 from day one. No break-in issues, no nuttin. How much more reliable can they get? (tongue in cheek) ;)
Rayrevolver I just sent the Custom II back to Yonkers....we will see what happens.:rolleyes:
My Springfield Armory Lightweight Ultra Compact 1911 feeds Remington Golden Saber JHP flawlessly. I use Wilson Combat mags.
QuickStrike
05-13-09, 05:28
Just sent my milspec back to springfield (free shipping!). Hopefully it can feed the gold-dots when it comes back.
Also requested that Novak sights be installed, with tritium inserts. :cool:
decodeddiesel
05-13-09, 10:00
Just sent my milspec back to springfield (free shipping!). Hopefully it can feed the gold-dots when it comes back.
Also requested that Novak sights be installed, with tritium inserts. :cool:
Quickstrike, it may behoove you to contact SA and let them know exactly what type of JHP you are going to be shooting, and/or send them a box of the ammo. Then they will ensure it feeds the ammo before it leaves the factory, and you could get them to sight the pistol in specifically for that ammo.
Just a thought...
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