VTAC Carbine 1.5 1-3 May 09 @ Southern Exposure in Lakeland, Florida

[Derek_Connor]

VTAC Carbine 1.5 1-3 May 09 @ Southern Exposure in Lakeland, Florida.


This was my first time training with Viking Tactics (Kyle Lamb and company), and this was also my first time at Southern Exposure. So it was a new range, new faces, new instructors across the board.

I think we all know Kyle's background. Kyle was accompanied by Dan of VTAC - another senior SME and many years behind the gun.

This was a full class, with 24-26 shooters depending on if the hosts were in the rotation at that point. It was a good mix of Local/Federal/Retired LEO, a few MIL,and civis. We had some Industry Professionals also present @ the course which always adds to the quality of the class, other resources to tap. The weather was boringly beautiful each day, highs of 89-92 through the entire weekend, no rain, some clouds.

Southern Exposure is a well maintained, KISS range with multiple shooting bays and a large 200+ yard range. There was plenty of shade provided for students to debrief and top off magazines. From what I can gather, the students who usually attend Southern Exposure are repeat students, and it was evident the group present this weekend was a tight knit collection. Even being the "new guy" to S.E., the hosts were very welcoming along with the students as well.

Everyone was shooting an AR15 platform, I did see one SIG 556 for a brief couple of drills. A mix of Carbines and SBRs were present. Pistols were a mix of 1911s, M&Ps, Glocks. I was running a 12.5 SBR and a 1911, with kydex mag pouches. I had no problems keeping up with the ammo count with 2 mags for each system on my belt and an extra in a pocket.


[TD1]:
We started out ensuring everyone's rifle was zero'd. Kyle did not force a particular zero down on anyone, but we did shoot I believe at 50, 75, 100yards so everyone with their specific zero knew where their hold over was.
We were immediately assessed on TD1 with timed and graded evolutions which included different firing positions from 100 yards and in. This really left a positive feeling with me right away knowing that I would have something to compare to once we got to TD3.

TD1 was honestly a real challenge for myself, the postions we were shooting for accuracy were ones I haven't done in a real long time. I wasn't fighting my gear, wasn't fighting my rifle, I was just fighting my inexperience. Then I knew I was being put out of my "comfort" zone.

We also worked on learning how to drive the weapon system. But not like granny in her 4 door saturn. Driving the weapon as aggressively, efficiently as possible from target to target. In a more progressed class, engaging multiple targets, IMHO, is a must. The more you can keep the student responsible for, the better. Keeps stress levels high, and makes them more accountable through out the course.

[TD2]:
This day of instruction was dedicated to shooting on the move and malfunction clearing drills. One thing Kyle emphasizes is that he wants a technique to work 100% of the time wether its outside/inside/night time/day time etc. So his teaching methods were geared for those specific techniques. We ran a good malfunction drill that forced you clear 3 different unknown malfunctions after running 50-100 yards. Drills like this really melted some down, but they are better because of it.

Shooting on the move sucks. Its hard, and I am not good at it. But if you aren't behind cover, you should be shooting on the move. Foot work was went over in a simplistic way, which was good for me and others. Blocks of instruction were used to enforce the fundamentals while shooting going forward and lateral. My favorite drill was run on TD2 which simulated multiple corner clearings and engaging targets on all the move.


[TD3]:
TD3 was dedicated mostly to the positions that everyone loves to shoot. Imagine most of the joints in your body bent/flexed, and thats what we shot from. From both the shooting and reactionary side. Then we did these from behind barricades @ 100 yards on steel targets, which was a plus as some times it was hard to even hear the hits being that low to the ground. We practiced and competed during the first half of TD3 running a set of barricades incorporating the correct positioning and shooting/reaction sides, this was hard.

I could on TD3 alot of people were rethinking gear/kit issues, having alot of mags on your chest is good, but if you really DONT need them, then simplify. You can really be more efficient if you let your 'mission' drive the 'gear'. Getting down prone with alot of kit on sucks.

We finished TD3 w/the final competition which incorporated all the fundamentals we practiced. This drill was frustrating to say the least, but I came out a better shooter in the end personally, from the though processes I will now start to go through.

The final round count was probably a bit over 1200 for 5.56, and no more than 50 for pistol.


Equipment, Their Issues and Failures:
-We had one LEO who shot the hole course suppressed (SBR rifle). He kept his gun running 100%, until the last day where his rifle popped a very small piece of a case or primer into his bolt cam pin hole. This perm. locked the gun up, and he had to remove the tube to get it cleared.

-We had a home built gun rail system loosen up, the shooter decided to drive on, but I believe the same shooter ended up having gas problems. The rail was tightened down, and then it was found out soon later the gas key was loose on the BCG. It was staked, and he continued. I did not know what type of BCG it was.

-Sling issues where a problem considering the reactionary side shooting. I came into this class a strong advocate of the 1point. After leaving this class, I still think Im going to keep with the 1point, but I am going to continue to practice the same drills with a 2point so I am proficient at both. People with 1points who hadn't practiced switching shoulders or didn't have the sling setup correctly were struggling. And vice versa for 2pointers, some had problems dropping the reactionary side hand out to get the rifle over.

-Kit/Nylon issues were somewhat apparent. No one made drastic changes. But it was evident that the slicker you can run the better.

-Optics for the rifles were predominantly Aimpoints, some T-1s, some ML3s, a couple of EOTechs, and one guy shooting irons. No magnified optics were ran this weekend.

-Magazines were pmags from what I could see, no glaring/significant issues.

Other than the 2 issues above most guns ran well.


Conclusion:

I was extremely pleased with the level of instruction, the courses of fire, being able to be graded on SPEED and ACCURACY, and overall professionalism from Kyle. He delivered the same enthusiasm and education to you whether you were a LEO/Mil/Civi. I will definitely be a repeat student with VTAC, and I would not hesitate to recommend ANYONE to train w/this group.

[rob_s]

I am REALLY pissed I had to miss this. Great AAR. I love the fact that there was a "test" at the beginning and the end to measure performance/improvement. I think too many instructors are afraid of this as they think it will scare away the less capable shooters. I would submit that those that aren't capable of really assesing their skillsets SHOULD be kept away.

also, as someone that has been very lightly dabbling in "instruction" (3 hour blocks at a time) I think it's a great way for the instructor to gauge the skill level of the class as a whole. I've found subtle ways to work this in to our drills nights because time constraints prevent me from doing a full-on "test", but really appreciate and understand the value in a 3-day format.

[RogerinTPA]

Just finished up the Kyle 1.5 Carbine class yesterday Southern Exposure in Kathleen FL, north of Lakeland. This class was outstanding training event for those who wish to improve their skills beyond just the basics. The class was maxed out with 24 students, plus the host (Irv) and his wife, shooting most of the training evolutions. The class was mostly civilian with a small mix of former military, LEOs and two MDs. Folks came from all over FL and as far away as Atlanta and Charleston. The civilians were very experienced and most have had 5 to 10 classes at this facility. Everyone was an excellent shot. The facilities were well kept and groomed. One large 100 yard range and 3 side shooting bays. The weather was awesome.

TD 1

SGM Kyle Lamb began with the traditional safety briefing with emphasis on muzzle awareness and sweeping that safety on after every manipulation. He covered ballistics from various ranges, holdovers, basic /modified shooting positions, and basic marksmanship. We then zeroed at 25, 50 and 100 yards, which took most of the time, then performed the Half and Half drill several times.

TD2

Kyle covered malfunctions in depth. Explaining what causes them, what actually occurs when a specific malfunction occurs and how to clear it. We then performed the “Three Kittens” drill, where Kyle and Dan set up 3 different malfunctions in 3 different weapons. We then had to run from the 50 yard line to a group of ARs, attempt to fire, then clear each malfunction, then shoot two rounds. We ran various drills involving control pairs shooting, multiple targets (where driving the gun hard with speed and accuracy was emphasized), shooting on the move from a conga line, where each student, moved down the firing line, engaging several targets. We also performed transition drills when your AR malfunctions, to draw your pistol and continue to shoot while moving. Kyle and Dan also touched on providing covering fire when a team member has to transition or has a malfunction. Turning and shooting in tight quarters, damn near shoulder to shoulder was interesting. The day ended with the Zig Zag drill, performing it several times. Note: I only fired maybe 2 ½ pistol mags during the entire course.

TD3

Performed transition drills from strong side to support side and modified shooting positions for different tactical situations and barricade shooting from 100 yards. All scenarios designed to allowed you to shoot under, over and around vehicles, helos, down hill, off roof tops, drain holes from roof tops). Derek had some issues with a stabilized sitting position, where you had to stack your feet and stabilized your AR on the top foot, while gripping the toe area of the shoe. Improvising, he took his shoe off ! LOL!:p Kyle and the rest of us were laughing are asses off! (Pics to follow) There was some spanish dude yelling at Derek, following him as he moved from position to position, during barricade shooting that got everyone's attention, "Shoot Faster", screaming various profanities at him, waving his arms in the air like a crazy man. I was like WTF is going on?, then started crying laughing!:p These positions were pretty physically demanding and wore out my knees and thighs. The last drill for the day was the High Smith. Practice and timed for score. It seems easy when observed, but emphasized speed, accuracy, and correct shooting position throughout this drill. You heard the chorus “Knees” from Kyle and the students observing, when a student used the wrong knee for the position being used., throughout the drill. I used my LMT MRP this day, with the Aimpoint M4S. I was having some aiming problems with the M4S when shooting urban & SUV prone, where your face is literally on the ground while trying to find that damn dot. I'm so used to running the EOTech, that the M4S gave me some problems in unusual shooting positions, but after adjusting and getting used to it, I got pretty accurate with it.

This class experience an unusually high amount of malfunctions which, didn’t really slow the class down, since there were only a few timed training evolutions for score. Luckily, there were no malfunctions during the timed drills. I looked at it as additional training on doing malfunction drills. The most common were double feeds, and failure to extract and popped primers using Federal M193. The student using it experienced this continuously throughout TD1 until switching ammo. I personally had a worn extractor on my 6920, which cause several failures to extracts (cured by throwing in my back up BCG), and a bad mag, which turned my AR into a rack/single shot, until I switched mags (a CProd with Magpul follower, not enough spring tension), and two stove pipes, from shooting from the SUV prone. My EOTech batteries failed on TD1. I clearly intended to change out those batteries prior to class, but forgot. Note to self, replace batteries PRIOR to class, extractor, springs and things, every 4 to 5K rounds to ensure reliability.

SMG Lamb and his AI (Dan) are exceptional trainers. They gave a lot of individual feedback despite the large class. I enjoyed his laid back, funny and very informative teaching style, with an emphasis on “A Way” as opposed to “THE Way”. The high scoring shooter received a S&W M&P and the second place shooter (Derek, who is an exceptional shooter) won a high speed backpack from 511. There was a lot on comic relief throughout the training with some student characters, providing much of it. The host was very nice and extremely Un PC. Which had me dying laughing at every break. Irv had a class breakfast and dinner each day, which gave the students a chance to get to know one another and well as our trainers, Kyle and Dan. If you are in FL or surrounding states, I highly recommend this training facility and the Kyle 1.5 course. I really enjoyed it. I will be on the look out for other VTAC courses to take.

Derek shooting his modified sitting position.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/P1010064.jpg

Closer view.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/P1010065.jpg

Me shooting strong side urban prone.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/P1010066.jpg

Kyle talking with some students.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/P1010068.jpg

Support side urban prone. Kid standing to the right using iron sights, did some outstanding shooting. Beating most guys using red dots.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/P1010069.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/P1010063.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/P1010061.jpg

Crazy Spanish dude on Kyles right was the guy screaming at Derek during Barricade relay and movement drill.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/P1010072.jpg

Class photo. All good shooters. The guy to my left was actually the top shooter but decline the top prize. Very gracious of him.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/P1010070.jpg

[Derek_Connor]

Harris,

Good meeting and shooting w/you this weekend.

And I totally forgot to mention, it was extremely nice of 5.11 and S&W to donate Firearms and Kit shooters.

Also a thanks goes out to VTAC for shirts, socks, and schwag.

[RogerinTPA]

You too Derek. You gave Kyle a run for his money on one of the timed drills. Ditto on the offerings from S&W, 511 and VTAC.

[RogerinTPA]

Pics are up.

[rob_s]

Crazy Spanish dude on Kyles right was the guy screaming at Derek during Barricade relay and movement drill.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee15/RogerTPA/P1010072.jpg


Oh God, you had BOTH of them in one class together? I don't think I could be as amped up as those two if I took all the crystal meth in Nevada!

[rob_s]

Lotsa familiar faces in that class photo too. REALLY makes me wish I could have made this one. Great group.

[RogerinTPA]

Yeah, the guy on Kyle's left was a competition pistol shooter (IDPA I think) and was very fast on the timed drills. I noticed that most of the class knew each other very well. Very experienced guys.

[Derek_Connor]

Hah! I love it. Good photos. That is one of the better class photos ive seem come out in awhile.

Im copy righting my improvised sitting position, for those of us who require too big of shoes and disproportionate limbs.

[rob_s]

Yeah, the guy on Kyle's left was a competition pistol shooter (IDPA I think) and was very fast on the timed drills. I noticed that most of the class knew each other very well. Very experienced guys.

Yeah, I know both of those guys. Ricardo and Aaron. They're both from down this way.

[Derek_Connor]

Yeah, I know both of those guys. Ricardo and Aaron. They're both from down this way.


Both great people. First time I Aaron, great shot and a hard competitor.

And Ricardo...ahh what can you do w/those Puerto Ricans...:D (inside joke)

[Gentle Ben]

This was a great course, and I enjoyed meeting and shooting with all of you. I especially enjoyed sharing a room at the Royalty with "Grouper" Derek and his purty mouth. :D

I can't add much to the two great AARs, but I'll say that I was impressed with how Kyle paid close attention to what everyone was doing, which allowed him to give a lot of one-on-one instruction to each of us. I haven't trained with many instructors who gave me that much individual feedback and tweaking.

[Gentle Ben]

I thought Ricardo was Cuban.

[Boss Hogg]

Great class group photo. It's nice to see one without kit, scowls, and kufiyyat. :p

[rob_s]

That picture has to have been just about 5 minutes before everyone left the range. You can see the South Florida boys already have their damn flip flops on!

[rob_s]

Derek, curious to hear how your "battle belt" experiment is going. Looks like you just ran everything attached to your pants belt? Something like a Wilderness or other "instructor" belt?

[30 cal slut]

-Kit/Nylon issues were somewhat apparent. No one made drastic changes. But it was evident that the slicker you can run the better.



i'll vouch for that.

[Derek_Connor]

Derek, curious to hear how your "battle belt" experiment is going. Looks like you just ran everything attached to your pants belt? Something like a Wilderness or other "instructor" belt?


Working well so far, I was going to wait until after this weekend's night fighter course in St Augustine to give a decent review.

Its a Jones Tactical Inner belt w/cobra buckle, eagle pad, and some custom dropped kydex mag pouches with rattle can on them. I finally found this holster, Ive LITERALLY been looking for this for the last 2 years. GCODE SOC rig that actually fits a 1911 dawson railed w/x300 on it. The holster, while technically a leg rig, attaches to the belt high enough that its no more dropped than a safariland UBL or bladetech DOH type system.

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/9094/dsc07767large.jpg

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4619/dsc07768large.jpg

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6982/dsc07770large.jpg

[RogerinTPA]

I thought Ricardo was Cuban.

I think he is, but quite a few folks were calling him a PR, just to mess with him.;) Good meeting you too Gentle Ben.

[rob_s]

I think he is, but quite a few folks were calling him a PR, just to mess with him.;) Good meeting you too Gentle Ben.

He's Columbian, FWIW.

[Derek_Connor]

I think he is, but quite a few folks were calling him a PR, just to mess with him.;) Good meeting you too Gentle Ben.

He's definitely Columbian.

Remember? His dad is the president of Columbia. :D

[RogerinTPA]

He's definitely Columbian.

Remember? His dad is the president of Columbia. :D

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I have to work on some memory exorcises.:D Colombian, Cuban, PR...same same, Keef Keef :p(j/k).

[GLOCKMASTER]

Hey guys great AAR's for this class. Good to see that Kyle is moving around some more on the east coast. JAck White and myself host him here in NC and Kyle is a an outstanding instructor.

If you haven't trained with Kyle Lamb and the crew from Viking Tactics you are missing some of the best carbine training around.

[irv]

Hi Derek and rharris

Thanks for the kind comments about Southern Exposure Training Facility, it is most appreciated. That being said it is the instructor that makes the range not the range that makes the instructor. A Disney World range is nice but if the instructor can't cut it the class is worthless and our training budget is limited.

This is my first post on this forum but I have been involved in tactical training for about 15 years, have attended most every major school and have had well over 200 classes. I started coordinating classes at Southern about ten years ago because I wanted to bring affordable classes to the southeast U S. area.

I have always admired what I consider the top instructors today; Louis Awerbuck, Randy Cain, Jeff Gonzales, Bill Jeans, Pat Rogers, Clint Smith, ect but have wondered where is the new cadre of instructors is coming from when these guys retire and stop instructing. I have taken about 6 or so classes from instructors from the SF community and with the Iraq wars I thought that the next group would come from there but I have been disappointed. Sure these guys are warriors, did a great service for our country, know the subject material and can do all the things with a weapon that you would expect but they lack the one thing that Kyle Lamb of Viking Tactics has. THE ABILITY TO TEACH AND MAKE THE STUDENT UNDERSTAND SO HE GETS BETTER!

Kyle teaches the same fundamentals as the group above does but adds his own twist, another piece of the puzzle, another tool for the box and he does it by instruction. He walks the line and makes suggestions here and there to improve the shooters ability to hit the target. He doesn't just run drills after drills making brass. He tweaks each specific shooter so that by the end of class all were better shooters and could take away those hints from the class. I know I picked up five or six things and that is remarkable after all the classes I've been through, I would have been happy with one new tool.

This guy is the next guard and will lead those that follow. If you have never had a class from Kyle DO SO. He will be back to Southern twice in 2010 but he does appears elsewhere around the country. I only bring the best instructors to Southern and only the best of the best will be invite back for additional classes. Hunt Mr. Lamb down and take a class you won't be disappointed.

As an aside, it was a good class with good shooters and lots of fun. Next year we will be sure to have the grouper for Derek. :)

My thanks to Kyle and Dan for making the class enjoyable and getting all the shooters to a higher plane. Isn't that the reason to take training?

BTW Rico (not his real name but the one given to him by Kyle) is from Columbia. :) He did take a lot of heat. LOL

be safe irv
www.southernexposuretraining.com

[irv]

All

Please notice the picture with this thread that has Kyle in the middle and his two favorite students (LOL) on each side. Notice close and tell me if those two aren't winder lickers? Kyle is the only one looking at the camera. :)

be safe irv

[Gentle Ben]

I honestly didn't know how to handle myself, training on a manicured golf course-like range. I'm used to training on broken glass and rusted metal.

seriously though Irv, you and your boss have a great little venue up there in Lakeland.

[rob_s]

I honestly didn't know how to handle myself, training on a manicured golf course-like range. I'm used to training on broken glass and rusted metal.

seriously though Irv, you and your boss have a great little venue up there in Lakeland.

Now you know why I'd rather drive three hours to Southern Exposure and stay three nights in a hotel than go to that cesspool called Pop's ;)

[irv]

Hi Ben

We keep it nice (no knee pads needed) just for your Glocks. I would hate to ruin those beautiful grip reduction jobs on a lousy range.

Rob - you've been coming for years and know that advantage of a nice range. Not having to worry about glass shards, rusty pieces of metal and other crap when you go prone lets you concentrate on doing it right. Besides from south Florida it's only 3 or so hours and the motel gives us great rates at $46.00 per night for the deluxe room with free internet and breakfast.

We have guys come from all over the US and central and south America but e really concentrate on Florida and the SE US.

Thanks to both of you.

be safe irv

[Magsz]

Definitely looking forward to doing some training with Viking tactics in 2010. My training budget is about exhausted for this year which means ive got time to save up, fantastic!

Derek...not even going to ask about the tactical sock benchrest you had going there.

[Gentle Ben]

Irv,
That hotel is a bargain for $4x a night. FWIW, I attend courses for the training, and I'm not overly concerned about much else when I'm there. That being said, I really enjoyed the whole atmosphere at this one: good humor, serious training, camaraderie ... and the Italian joint we had dinner at every night makes some damn good pizza. ;)

Ian,
You won't be sorry. (Unless Irv invites you to sit on his lap and play Santa Claus.) :eek:

[Magsz]

Irv,
That hotel is a bargain for $4x a night. FWIW, I attend courses for the training, and I'm not overly concerned about much else when I'm there. That being said, I really enjoyed the whole atmosphere at this one: good humor, serious training, camaraderie ... and the Italian joint we had dinner at every night makes some damn good pizza. ;)

Ian,
You won't be sorry. (Unless Irv invites you to sit on his lap and play Santa Claus.) :eek:

And...who is to say that i wont enjoy that? :D

[Derek_Connor]

Derek...not even going to ask about the tactical sock benchrest you had going there.



Sometimes you gotta think outside the box to get this shit to work..

And if that means removing objects or using other body parts as monopods (for some of us, this may not work), roll w/it :D

[Gentle Ben]

And...who is to say that i wont enjoy that? :D


If Irv thinks you're enjoying it, he'll punch you in the back of the head and make you wear a sheep costume.

[irv]

Sheep are good! :)

As long as everyone has a good time and doesn't take themselves seriously except when shooting.

Everyone who takes a class at Southern becomes family and we get to joke with family.

be safe irv

[rob_s]

Everyone who takes a class at Southern becomes family

This is an excellent point that can't be over-stated. Last year when I wound up in Lakeland thinking I had signed up for a class that I didn't, I was planning on staying and hanging out at the range anyway for three days just to be in the environment. Things worked out and there was a slot for me after all, but I would have stuck around regardless, even just to go to dinner each night.

[Gentle Ben]

Sheep are good! :)

As long as everyone has a good time and doesn't take themselves seriously except when shooting.

Everyone who takes a class at Southern becomes family and we get to joke with family.

be safe irv

Next time maybe the bbq place will be more cooperative in setting us up with a group table. Pizza is good...but bbq trumps pretty much everything. If all else fails, we could get Sal to trailer his grill up there and he can work his magic.

[irv]

Hi Ben

We ate at the BBQ joint tonight. They took a reservation for 19 students who wanted to attend from the Louis Awerbuck class. Being a weekday they were happy to have us but they don't have grouper. :)

be safe irv

[Gentle Ben]

The fact that it's not on the menu won't stop Derek from ordering it. :D

[irv]

Hi Ben

Many classes at Southern seems to have a theme and just saying that word reminds everyone in the class of certain parts of it. This class may be known forever as the "grouper" class. :)

be safe irv

[Jones Tactical]

Working well so far, I was going to wait until after this weekend's night fighter course in St Augustine to give a decent review.

Its a Jones Tactical Inner belt w/cobra buckle, eagle pad, and some custom dropped kydex mag pouches with rattle can on them. I finally found this holster, Ive LITERALLY been looking for this for the last 2 years. GCODE SOC rig that actually fits a 1911 dawson railed w/x300 on it. The holster, while technically a leg rig, attaches to the belt high enough that its no more dropped than a safariland UBL or bladetech DOH type system.

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/9094/dsc07767large.jpg



Derek is running my 2" FatZombie Duty Belt System, just FYI for everyone.

JT

[irv]

Hi J T

"FatZombie"

That fits. :)

be safe irv