LEOs- do u speak out?

[jh901]

The article linked is discussed in the thread posted at the top, but I was hoping to get some responses from the LEO community. Carter suggests that law enforcement favors an "assault weapons" ban. Hopefully, we have some LEOs that check this forum. Curious as to whether or not we can expect law enforcement to set the record straight on this matter. Please opine......thanks.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/opinion/27Carter.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

[jrainer]

First off lemme say I'm not an LEO but I would be very interested to see what the actual response would be from the LEO community

[Puddle Pirate]

I was in the service when "Jimmy" was in office. I was not impressed with him then - and I am not now.

He did way more good working for Habitat for Humanity and growing peanuts.

As a CIC, I thought he was a disaster.

His article is out of contact with reality, IMHO.

I am a Deputy with a large Sheriff's Office. This is a subject that we - on the line - have talked about many times. Not one of the folks I have worked with ever expressed that sentiment, nor would we look kindly on any sort of weapons ban or confiscation. I've worked LE for most of my adult life, including 12 with my current position.

I stress that this is MY personal opinion, and not any one else's.

[jh901]

thanks! hoping we can get several LEOs to weigh in......




His article is out of contact with reality, IMHO.

I am a Deputy with a large Sheriff's Office. This is a subject that we - on the line - have talked about many times. Not one of the folks I have worked with ever expressed that sentiment, nor would we look kindly on any sort of weapons ban or confiscation. I've worked LE for most of my adult life, including 12 with my current position.

[Drummer]

Like any cross-section of society, there are LEOs that are for and against gun control. My experience has been that in the larger urban areas, more LEOs are for gun control and, in more rural areas they are mostly against it.

That said, it appears to me that MOST LEOs I have contact with oppose any new assault weapon ban legislation.

Also keep in mind, many Chiefs in urban areas are political puppets who spew anti-gun propaganda. Unfortunately, their opinions seem to carry much more weight than the line cops.

[Going4Broke]

I know this is second hand, but my buddies brother is a LEO and has been for several years and I know he and most of his fellow LEO's are against any sort of ban for the same reasons we are all against it.

[JSandi]

Here in Trashville our Chief is a staunch liberal doo-gooder, alot of our command staff is pro-AWB but it seems the rank-n-file's who work the streets are in two categories.

One (Myself) who are pro-2A, anti-AWB

Two, those who just don't give a crap either way, who are just drawing a paycheck, attempting to stay below the radar screen and counting the days till retirement so they can move to Florida.

I'm sure we have a few idealists who would take up the cause just because its the law but I have yet to meet them.

[JBnTX]

Most cops are not "gun nuts".
They see guns as a tool for a job.

Based on that, I'd assume that more than a few cops would
favor some kind of gun control.

[Patrick Aherne]

What most folks fail to understand is that almost every LEO has a policy or procedure that forbids anyone other than the Chief/Sheriff from making a political statement in uniform. Also, government employees have restricted free speech rights, in some instances. Therefore, all you ever hear from is activist Chiefs/Sheriffs that are puppets of liberal politicians. You NEVER hear from the, in my experience, vast majority of street cops who favor second amendment rights.

Could you imagine the furor if a group of chiefs came out against one of the other amendments?

[bkb0000]

i was shooting with one of our local cops a few months ago after the election, and we were on the topic of Obama and possible changes. i asked him what he thought about another AWB/etc, and he gave me a bored look and said "doesn't effect me. i get these (holding his department M&P15) either way."

[CryingWolf]

and three rifles, two with scopes
Careful Jimmy it is just a couple of words to go from scoped hunting rifle to high powered sniper rifle.

[the1911fan]

One time I had a letter to the editor printed in the local Cleveland Ohio rag (The Plain Dealer AKA The Time Stealer) and I was complaining that criminals that shoot and wound a victim (with the exact same intent as those that kill victims) get much lighter sentances due to bad aim, good medical care, good luck, Etc.

I signed with my name, dept. name and rank


It was printed and read by Chief/Mayor/Council and I was told NEVER use my position as a civil servant to promote a political idea...I was given a written reprimand with a warning of a 5 day suspension should it happen again.


Now I just sign my name and nothing I write ever gets printed anymore.

[glockshooter]

I am a LEO, but I would think it is obvious where I stand being a member of this forum. I am all for the 2nd Amendment. I shoot regularly, and it is usually with non LEO friends. I believe that anyone that has not lost there RKBA, should have a gun. The problem that we will always have to deal with is misconception and misinformation. Sadly enough my mother and I were having a conversation about guns, and she made the statement that no one should have assault weapons. I asked her why, and she replied no one needs a machine gun. Now she is not familiar with guns so I asked her if the gun I use to shoot 3gun matches was okay for people to have, and she said yeah those are fine. Then I went on to explain that was the type of weapon they wanted to ban. She did not realize that the media/ politicians were misleading the unknowing citizen. Until we can get the truth out about the AWB, and what it really does we will be behind the eight ball. Most people think that the AWB will ban machineguns and the like. They dont know that those guns are already strictly regulated.

I can report that MOST cops I work with have similiar veiws as I do. I have also run into cops that believe we would be btter off without guns. I think the are nieve, cops should know that MOST crimes are not committed with legally obtained guns. Very few guns I have taken off the street were obtained legally. Most of them were stolen. I do however believe if gun owners would take more responiblity in securing their guns there would be far less of a problem. When the antigunner/ ATF come up the stats a gun that is stolen is considered a "crime gun".

Of the cops I know that are antigun most are that way because they think banning guns is going to make them safer, or they have seen something that caused them to reconsider their views.

Matt

[jhurt]

Somewhere there is a list of police departments that have signed onto an agreement supporting an AWB. Mine is on there. Most of the people I take calls with see no need for it. One chap even told me he thinks people should be able to open carry but not conceal carry. I generally don't like to bring attention to myself so I couldn't agree with that one, but it's a personal decision. I wouldn't especially care if I could see YOUR gun or not. As far as the Chief signing onto the plea for more laws, I'm sure someone from some lobbyist group called him up and said "Hey there, would you say that for the good of the community and the safety of the children...." Unfortunately when the head of an organization takes a stance the entire organization is seen as agreeing...in our case sometimes a whole community.

[seb5]

Here in rural AR. it's a no go.Most cops own their own M-4 type carbine. And I LOVE it when some of the younger, mostly city cops spout something off about it. I kindly try to educate them with facts and history. If that doesn't work I tell them they are douche bags and an embarrassment to my profession. Really.

[jh901]

OP here. Very interesting responses. I hadn't considered many of the points that have been made. Much appreciated.

Even with Obama and the Democrats running Washington, there is still only fringe support for an AWB at this time. But my concern is that when the opportunity is right, Rahmbo and the gang will spring into action and it will be too late. Additionally, the NRA is the only voice of reason on the matter, yet they are perceived as a virtual hate group by Carter and the liberals. It is all too easy to demonize gun owners and the NRA lobby by exploiting the actions of criminals or simply confusing an uninformed citizenry with scary sounding terminology (semi-automatic, assault rifle, etc.).

Oh well. The NRA isn't the answer, but what is? It would be nice if law enforcement departments in gun friendly states would speak up and give some credibility to the whole truth.

[ThirdWatcher]

I am a LEO with over 30 years of service and serve in a small city. I am also a Benefactor member of the NRA (and have been an NRA member for over 30 years). As stated above, I cannot speak for my agency. Nonetheless, I do not know any officers that favor reinstatement of the AWB.

Most of the officers I serve with take a more pragmatic approach. IMHO, an AWB is no more effective than Biased Policing is (and we all know that doesn't work).

The more we focus on misconduct, the more effective we are.

[Gentoo]

CLEOs will or won't support it based on their own opinions and attempts to curry political favor. A pro 2a Chief in San Francisco will not be employed for long.

Rank and file, I agree with what JSandi wrote. Some will some won't, most just want to get paid and go home. I think it is a function of where they come from. In a place like NYC where civilian gun ownership is made so difficult that it is a near impossibility, and thus the only people with guns are the cops and the crooks, you are more likely to find gun control supporters. Most of those officers have never even seen or handled a gun before they were hired. Contrast that with a rural Sheriffs office, and you can see where the split would come from.

[iroc_dis]

Current LEO in South Carolina. We've talked about it a bit. I don't think I've heard any of my direct coworkers say that they would support an AWB or any new form of gun control. Like others have said though, we're a rural agency so its almost to be expected.

[cobra90gt]

Someone else hinted at it earlier in the thread; The majority of patrol/street LEOs out there support the 2nd Amendment/RKBA, including concealed carry. Most of them are not in favor of AWBs either...at least in my jurisdiction.

Now, can the same be said for administrative LEOs who have to cater to their city/town/etc's political board? Perhaps not, especially in liberal heavy areas.

YMMV.

[lonewolf21]

most cops that work the street should be smart enough to realize that even with a ban, your not going to get guns off the streets. period. i can see it now, after the ban goes in effect, all the thugs and criminals walk to the nearest station and hand over their guns. might even be a rainbow in the sky. i think this is the picture that politicians want to paint. if you go for it. your stupid. i love it when im on patrol and i come to a call where some citizen has used thier concealed weapon to defend themselves. always brings a smile to my face. whenever im asked about a gun ban i always say tell them this, "well marijuana has always been ellegal, but i still seem to find it in every other car and house i go to" criminals dont follow the law, isnt that what makes them criminals. hummmm.....

[PRGGodfather]

We know bans don't work -- but we have just as many uninformed folks who don't care for firearms in our business. These sheep are usually the ones who can't shoot well, too. We call them sheep in sheepdog clothing.

Politics is the waging of war without the shedding of blood. Politicians will do what is necessary to remain in office, and keeping the citizenry emotional, irrational and uninformed helps them stay in office. Unfortunately, too many of our LE leaders are appointed or elected officials, and they, too -- want to keep their jobs.

That said, it is up to all of us, individually and collectively, to do what is necessary to ensure our rights remain uninfringed. We do that, by acting responsibly and prudently with those rights, and often, by helping the antis to change their minds, even if one at a time. Listen to them, appeal to their common sense, and take some of them shooting. Dispel myths, speak to self-defense and promote responsibility. It takes a lot of work...

My understanding is that just as many pro-firearm liberals are buying up guns and ammo, even if they never previously exercised their 2A rights in the past -- for fear that governmental encroachment on their rights destroys their freedoms. That's a step in the right direction -- if we remember to approach the political issue tactically -- seeking common ground and using that commonality to protect our rights.

We can win this -- if we continue to take the high road, reduce our infighting and hold anti-gun politicians accountable.

Take an anti-gunner shooting!

And yes, I speak out -- both IN and OUT of the office -- with the appropriate disclaimers as to employment when outside.

[jh901]

OP here again. Thanks for all the feedback. Maybe one of the LEOs can link this thread in the LEO forum so that we can get more feedback. Thanks....





Take an anti-gunner shooting!

And yes, I speak out -- both IN and OUT of the office -- with the appropriate disclaimers as to employment when outside.

[Sidewinder6]

I retired from the Biz and have enjoyed guns and firearms my entire life.

I remember hearing these same comments from the CLEO's and remember being appalled and outspoken in these discussions.

Guess what, nobody cares what the officers think unless it fits with someones agenda. And that is probably why the CLEOs have folded over themselves because their roles are more involved in lowering their stats than shooting sports or having good; well trained officers. You have to give yourself a principal lobotomy in order to feed your desire to see yourself in the chair in the first place.

Of course I was/am an outspoken neoanderthal that also believe some people are better off shot.

[Surf]

LEO with almost 20 years with a large metro PD of around 2500, in a very liberal state. I will say that I am a member of a few very large LEO or related sites, including the NTOA forums. This topic has been asked and discussed on all of these forums. What I am about to say is pretty much the consensus across the boards, however, I will echo that I do not speak for my dept or anyone else.

I will say that there is often times a very large disparity in your average street cops beliefs and the stance taken by the administration, especially as the dept grows in size. Admins tend to become politicians, and will follow the current political trend du jour.

As mentioned many LEO's are not "gun people". In my current assignment, I have been in my own little "fishbowl" for many many years, and the guys that I work with are "gun guys" who are very pro 2A, and are very much against bans. However most guys, especially in patrol, that I am aware of, are smart enough to see what gun bans are about, and how it may, or may not actually affect them on the street. Most know that gun bans don't work and hold this position.

So when you hear that cops are anti-gun, we need to make the distinction that what the troops actually feel, and the political stance taken by the admin may not be one in the same.

I am also an NRA lifer type, who has all of their NRALE A-Z certs, and the civvy card as well. This might make me a bit biased, but I am also pro CCW.

[jh901]

I wonder if there is enough support from retired LEOs (or those able to "go public") to at least start an internet petition against firearm bans. Seems to me we need grass-root support from a group of people with credibility on this issue. Sometimes I think the NRA does more harm than good as far as educating the uninformed.