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View Full Version : AAR -Larry Vickers Basic Pistol and Carbine, May 1-4, 2009, Bend, OR



rykyard
05-07-09, 23:21
AAR - Larry Vickers Basic Pistol and Carbine, May 1-4, 2009, Bend, OR

First off I'd like to thank Larry for one of the best learning experiences I've ever had. Also, our host Scot Hill, who attended both courses and served as Larry's assistant/demo-instructor all while coordinating the event with a relaxed, professional and friendly attitude and shooting extremely well, thanks man.

The facilities: COSSA (Central Oregon Shooting Sports Assn), just outside of Bend, OR. We worked at both a 25-yard pistol bay and next door at 100 yd bay with steel. This facility also features a 1000+ yrd range, and numerous other specialty bays. The high desert setting was incredible, with abundant wildlife and spectacular weather (more on this later).

This was intended to be a 2-day basic pistol and 2-day basic carbine course, however Larry was delayed (we knew of this well ahead of time) due to his filming schedule, so plans changed to a
1-day pistol + 1 night/low light pistol training, the carbine course schedule was unchanged. You wouldn't have known unless told that Larry traveled red-eye (with flight delays) the night previous to teaching a 14+ hour day.

Both courses where at capacity with 16 students with some change-over from pistol to carbine.

I am no judge of skill level, but there where several skilled students (including our host) and another student possessing an obviously superior skill-set. The rest of us where at the baseline with all eager to learn.

Pistol Course, TD 1 / 1.5:
The weather was windy and periodically raining, sometimes heavily.

Weapons present where primarily glocks, a couple of HK's, a Sig, several 1911's and at least one M&P. One 1911 had an issue with mags not dropping free, this was quickly corrected at the first break. Otherwise there where no issues that I'm aware of.

The pistol class started with a safety briefing, and noting that one of the attendees is a critical care nurse with aid bag on hand. Additionally, administrative guidelines and range rules where set down.

Not surprisingly Larry began with teaching and demonstrating trigger control with dry-fire drills, dime drill, variations of ball and dummy and a slide drill, etc. With each of these drills Larry began incorporating additional concepts such as stance, grip, wobble, trigger reset, follow-through and assessment. During the drills Larry evaluated the skill level of the students and offered one-on-one coaching and corrective-action.

These concepts where soon put into practice with various live-fire drills many of which begin at 3-yards and move back, apparently there was a mystery 17th student named “el snatcho” in attendance.

Periodically through the day we would move to the steel targets and do 100+ yrd walk-backs. Everyone's performance improved as the day progressed.

Larry introduced proper draw form and then reloads, focusing on the slide-lock reload. Several drills followed that added the draw and reloads to concepts already in practice.

Following demonstrations and drills teaching turns we had our first of many team drill/competitions, this added some good old stressful fun to the mix, it kicked ass. This was followed by shooting on the move and more drills, el snatcho made a big showing here, needless to say, we repeated these drills a number of times.

After a break for dinner we came back for night/low-light shooting course. Larry gives a good summary of the “double-edged sword” nature of white-light in a gunfight on his web-site, he discussed some of what he covers there while introducing several grip methods for hand held flashlights and weapon manipulation while using a light. Movement was again stressed along with the need to properly locate and identify the threat. Low-light is a vast topic in and of itself and learning some vary basic concepts was for me, (forgive the pun) illuminating. We conducted drills both with and without night sights and with various grips: normal, one handed strong and support hand. We ended the session with a discussion about carry ammunition in terms of muzzle flash.

Carbine Day 1, TD 2.5:
The day began with heavy snow conditions, which continued for the first half of the day, changing to heavy rain then to warm/humid blue skies then back to rain.

With the conditions Larry decided to hold off on longer range zero conformations and begin with some drills similar to the pistol course, covering sling placement, trigger control, sight picture, stance, grip, and ready positions.

A quick comment on equipment, Larry points out that a modern fighting carbine is complete if it has a flashlight, an red dot optic and a tactical sling. There where several weapons that where missing one or more of the above, we spent some time rectifying what we could, specifically slings. Most of the weapons performed well, several malfunctions where the result of insufficient lubrication and one match trigger shit-the-bed. There where 2 AK's in the class these, not surprisingly, had no problems. Larry took several opportunities to give “mini-classes” for the AK, which was very welcome.

After several “walk back” style drills we covered and drilled weakside shooting with proper sling manipulation, followed immediately with transitions, turns and shooting on the move. [my notes suck here]. There where the team drill/completions interspersed as well as follow-up walk-backs.

For drills conducted after learning transitions, if we had a bolt lock-back we transitioned to the pistol to complete the drill.

Carbine Day 2, TD 3.5:
The day's weather was periodic rain, wind and blue skies, with thunderheads passing us mostly to the east and west.

We started by confirming zero's (most where fine).

Firing positions and the relative merits (or lack thereof) of each was covered followed by a 100/75/50/25 drill.

We spent a good deal of time on learning about malfunctions and conducted malfunction drills.

At this point we covered carbine TD 1 topics again with some variations followed by drills, team-drills and competitions.

Larry was continually answering questions and passing on knowledge throughout the courses. I enjoyed his frank, no bullshit approach to teaching. Even though Larry paced the class to the median level there was still more taught than I was able to absorb, hopefully as I cycle through drills at home and at the range things will come back to me. Writing this AAR is an exercise in that effort as well. Hopefully others who attended the class will chime in with thoughts and fill some of the glaring gaps that I have left.

The competition aspect of many of the drills was one of the high points for me because of the added stress, I didn't win any individual competitions, but I never let my team down. And before I forget, I'd also like to thank Blue Force Gear and Tango Down for the great Vicker's prizes.


Additionally I'd like to thank M4Carbine.nt for the excellent technical and training resources it's users provide, which have been invaluable.

pics to follow.

rykyard
05-07-09, 23:24
pics (courtesy of CapnTroy):

Day 2 WX
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x87/capntroy223/DSC01446.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x87/capntroy223/DSC01447.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x87/capntroy223/DSC01448.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x87/capntroy223/DSC01449.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x87/capntroy223/DSC01458.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x87/capntroy223/DSC01456-1.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x87/capntroy223/DSC01457.jpg

I'll update with more images as they arrive.

Treehopr
05-08-09, 06:07
Nice AAR- thanks for taking the time to write it up.

UDT
05-08-09, 10:43
Thanks, for sharing. Nice AAR.

chadbag
05-08-09, 11:39
I was there as well. Very nice facility and Larry did a very good job with the instruction given his travel to get there (delays etc) and the crappy weather.

The "match" trigger that "shit the bed" was not really a match trigger (it was mine). I was testing a Jard std single stage "sport" trigger that got tougher to use and then stopped working. I switched to my backup rifle and then I quickly, at lunch, installed the factory trigger back in, which I had brought along just in case the Jard did not work out, and had my main rifle back in action. The Jard had been kind of strange since I had installed it (first shot often a little stiff or hard but follow on shots were nice) and had gone through test shots (200-300), then a 1300 round Pat Rogers class, then a few hundred more test shots, and then several hundred rounds from Larry's class Day 1. I will naturally be following up with Jard to see what happened.

The Hill brothers (Scot and Evan -- Scot being the main contact for us there) were very professional and provided for us well.

The facility there is about 20-22 miles outside of Bend and is a very nice facility.

Thanks to all who helped put this on and for Larry making the trek to Oregon. (I drove up 700+ miles from Utah).

update: For the pistol class, there were at least 3 M&Ps. I had one, and there were at least 2 others.

8th
05-08-09, 11:53
I am glad everyone had a good time. I was just out this morning working some drills.

rykyard
05-08-09, 16:06
I was there as well. Very nice facility and Larry did a very good job with the instruction given his travel to get there (delays etc) and the crappy weather.

The "match" trigger that "shit the bed" was not really a match trigger (it was mine). I was testing a Jard std single stage "sport" trigger that got tougher to use and then stopped working. I switched to my backup rifle and then I quickly, at lunch, installed the factory trigger back in, which I had brought along just in case the Jard did not work out, and had my main rifle back in action. The Jard had been kind of strange since I had installed it (first shot often a little stiff or hard but follow on shots were nice) and had gone through test shots (200-300), then a 1300 round Pat Rogers class, then a few hundred more test shots, and then several hundred rounds from Larry's class Day 1. I will naturally be following up with Jard to see what happened.

The Hill brothers (Scot and Evan -- Scot being the main contact for us there) were very professional and provided for us well.

The facility there is about 20-22 miles outside of Bend and is a very nice facility.

Thanks to all who helped put this on and for Larry making the trek to Oregon. (I drove up 700+ miles from Utah).

update: For the pistol class, there were at least 3 M&Ps. I had one, and there were at least 2 others.

Thanks for filling in some of the details. Also, one of the the competition prizes (a sweet Lula mag loader) was provided by eguns!

kevN
05-18-09, 00:27
This was a great class (I was the Sig p226 shooter). Safe shooters/good guys, great facility and hosts (thanks Evan/Scott), and simply awesome instruction.

The trigger control/anticipation emphasis alone made a big difference between for me. I was definitely on the lower end of the class in pistol shooting the first day. I have had much more productive focused range sessions (and have added a healthy dose of dry fire) since this class.

The thing that Larry does IMO makes it such a rewarding experience is that he doesn't try to make you into a clone of what he does. He looks at what your doing, finds the top things you can do to improve and communicates those to you (humorously and) very effectively.

Other things on the highlight reel:

A 50-yard weak handed gong hit by our lady shooter to win one of the walk-backs.

The very skillful sling surgery to help out some of the other classmates to get functional configurations for the carbines.

Capntroy's five-seven upper definitely drew some attention.

The AK brothers consistently manning-up with those hard hitting 7.62x39 gong hits.

The gong itself getting knocked down after apparently some of the bolts getting shot at a bit much.

Take care guys. -kevN

kevN
05-18-09, 00:29
Thanks for filling in some of the details. Also, one of the the competition prizes (a sweet Lula mag loader) was provided by eguns!

rkyyard, were you the P30 lefty? If so thanks for lending me that MAG to complete that one drill!

rykyard
05-18-09, 20:58
rkyyard, were you the P30 lefty? If so thanks for lending me that MAG to complete that one drill!

Yup that was me, and no problem.