View Full Version : 6.8 cal or .223
Im looking to buy a m4 but I cant decide if I want the 6.8 or .223. My uncle told me just to get .223 so im decide to get .223 and later to get upper 6.8 but should I just go head and buy the 6.8 m4
It's impossible to answer that question unless we know what you intend do to with the rifle. Punch paper? Hunt deer/hogs? Patrol rifle? HD/SD?
just to shoot at the range and to have for house defence
You could always buy the M4 you like in 5.56/.223 and then just buy a complete upper in 6.8. I must warn you though good 6.8 ammo is harder to find than 5.56/.223 I have a LWRC PSD 6.8 awaiting a tax stamp and I'm thinking about selling the upper...
Generally though a 6.8 is a harder hitter than a 5.56 think of it as an in between of 5.56 and 7.62. Also if you plan to SBR, 6.8 is a more ideal round to use. The draw back to 6.8 is that its more expensive than 5.56 and not too many good manufacturers to choose from Good luck!
RogerinTPA
05-10-09, 21:36
I vote 5.56mm. A more proven design and a 5.56mm chamber which can fire .223 ammo, equates to less stuck shell casings using cheaper ammo. It's common and the more economical choice. RRA, Stag, Bushmaster, Olympic arms, all have 5.56mm stamped on there barrels but are in fact .223. If you haven't done so, check out the knowledge based threads here https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355
Im looking to buy a m4 but I cant decide if I want the 6.8 or .223. My uncle told me just to get .223 so im decide to get .223 and later to get upper 6.8 but should I just go head and buy the 6.8 m4
The major downside of 6.8 is that ammunition costs around $1 a round or more unless you reload. The main supplier is Silver State Armory. I read that the Uncle Sam is building another ammunition plant and it will also produce 6.8, but that's a ways off.
I'm getting a 6.8 upper from AR Performance, but I'm also going to start reloading.
I would recommend that you get the 5.56 (.223) first since it is a more common round and the bullets cost less than the 6.8SPC rounds. After that, if you catch the BRD, consider purchasing a complete 6.8SPC rifle or just the upper if you are tight on funds. Good luck with your decision.
I love my 6.8, I love shooting my 6.8, but **** I hate trying to find ammo then having to pay for it. Around here the cheapest ammo one can find is about 1.25 a round. If you can find it:rolleyes:
Christ thats expensive. Ok I have 2 5.56 rifles, but have been interested in a 6.8 upper for hunting. Any suggestions?
Christ thats expensive. Ok I have 2 5.56 rifles, but have been interested in a 6.8 upper for hunting. Any suggestions?
Here are a list of Manufactures that make 6.8 uppers...
Lewis Machine & Tool
Bushmaster
CMMG
Barrett Rifles
DPMS Panther Arms
J&T Distributing
MGI
Robinson Armament Co.
Rock River Arms
Stag Arms
Land Warfare Resources Corp. (LWRC)
Noveske Rifleworks
Model 1 Sales
Olympic Arms
SSK Industries
68forums.com has a wealth of knowledge so happy hunting on their website. SSA (Silver State Armory) is pretty much the best company who makes ammo for the 6.8 right now imo.
Heavy Metal
05-10-09, 22:58
A 5.56 AR should be your baseline. I would not go spending money on a 6.8 untill you own and understand the 5.56mm AR.
A 5.56 AR should be your baseline. I would not go spending money on a 6.8 untill you own and understand the 5.56mm AR.
I concur :cool: Gotta learn how to walk before you run. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
diving dave
05-10-09, 23:31
+1 on picking up a 5.56 upper first. I'm waiting on my 6.8 upper now, and not looking foward to shelling out the money to feed it...
Another vote for 5.56 first. The only way I'd deviate from that advice is if you are only going to use the rifle for precision or hunting (or both) as the 6.8 top-shelf ammo actually costs about the same as 5.56 top-shelf, which makes the ammo costs issue a non-issue.
For what it sounds like you want, stick to (or start with) the 5.56 for now.
jroberts1968
05-11-09, 12:29
I have both I use the 68 for killing hogs in east texas. I have the 556 for playing and that cost a lot now. The 68 is way more expensivive. I just built a 545 for play. But if your buying for home defens I recommend a 12 guage with #2 bird shot pump or auto for home defense. 223 or 68 either or you good.
...if your buying for home defens I recommend a 12 guage with #2 bird shot pump or auto for home defense.
You reckon he's at high risk for home invasion by birds?
But if your buying for home defens I recommend a 12 guage with #2 bird shot pump or auto for home defense. 223 or 68 either or you good.
We have someone "special" here!
sandman99and9
05-11-09, 13:23
But if your buying for home defens I recommend a 12 guage with #2 bird shot pump or auto for home defense.
Sniff,sniff, do I smell a fudd ?? lol
s.m.
I'll throw out the contrary opinion, just so it gets heard...
I have both and at times have contemplated how things would be different if I went with 6.8 first. Now that ar15performance has a top notch upper for very reasonable price, that's where you sit. You can't get 6.8 p-mags, but that's a peripheral issue. You can't get 50 cent/round ammo, so there's an expense...
But when it comes to putting something down, few would choose the best 5.56 ammo over an average 6.8spc round. If you later decide to do a hunting, the 6.8 is a far better caliber.
When it comes to price, I've read smart guys say they'd rather have 1000 rounds of great 75-77 grain ammo than 2000 rounds of 55 grain. I feel the same about the 6.8 vs 5.56.
When it comes to plinking or training, the .22LR is a great, economical tool. My economic view is, you can shoot a ton of .22 and a little of 6.8 for a lot less than shooting a bunch of 50 cent 55 grain and a little bit of 75-77 grain. I know that's not a perfect analogy, but something to think about.
I've read smart guys say they'd rather have 1000 rounds of great 75-77 grain ammo than 2000 rounds of 55 grain.
I must not be very smart then. :p
Sniff,sniff, do I smell a fudd ?? lol
s.m.
Perhaps he's overdosed on Windex. If you lick too much glass, that'll happen.
I must not be very smart then. :p
Not to worry, as I don't believe anyone was jumping to that conclusion anyway.
:D
For putting something down (game animal or enemy combatant), 6.8 is far superior to 5.56. So 6.8 is very useful for anyone who hunts or who faces armed adversaries.
For punching paper or home defense, 5.56 is a better choice. Punching paper is obvious. For home defense, 5.56 doesn't overpenetrate as much as 6.8. The 6.8 has excellent intermediate barrier penetration characteristics, which is kind of what you don't want in a home defense scenario (unless you plan on shooting bad guys through walls or closed doors).
jroberts1968
05-11-09, 19:02
You reckon he's at high risk for home invasion by birds?
No I recon he will have a lower risk of indictment of overpenetrating and killing his next door neighbor or a familty member. From experience of witnessing a wound from #2 bird shot, I recon you don't want to be in it's path.:):):)
No I recon he will have a lower risk of indictment of overpenetrating and killing his next door neighbor or a familty member. From experience of witnessing a wound from #2 bird shot, I recon you don't want to be in it's path.:):):)
Guys, how about starting another thread on this foolishness and stop hijacking this one.
I have both
6.8 is used for hunting hogs (mainly and deer sometimes)
5.56 is for fun stuff
I reload 6.8 but not 5.56
I would suggest 5.56/223 for you
Assuming (there's that word) that proficiency is your goal, the ammo that you get more quality trigger time with is the wisest path.
My vote is 5.56.
jroberts1968
05-14-09, 10:11
I have both
6.8 is used for hunting hogs (mainly and deer sometimes)
5.56 is for fun stuff
I reload 6.8 but not 5.56
I would suggest 5.56/223 for you
I would suggest the 5.56/.223 as well. I just saw caballas has a wolf 40gr:eek: .223 steel case in stock for 178.00 - 500 rounds:D.
[QUOTE=carbinero;367051]
"When it comes to price, I've read smart guys say they'd rather have 1000 rounds of great 75-77 grain ammo than 2000 rounds of 55 grain"
Seems my 20+ years in INF/SF I must not be that smart:rolleyes: Seems to me you can die just as quick from 75 gr as you would 55gr.. It's shot placement duh! Oh and by the way the Vietnam SEAL silenced pistol "Hush puppy" was a .22 short! So what do the "Smart guys" say to that?????:o
QuietShootr
05-14-09, 20:35
You reckon he's at high risk for home invasion by birds?
Mod to Aisle 3, arfcommer cleanup please
QuietShootr
05-14-09, 20:36
[QUOTE=carbinero;367051]
"When it comes to price, I've read smart guys say they'd rather have 1000 rounds of great 75-77 grain ammo than 2000 rounds of 55 grain"
Seems my 20+ years in INF/SF I must not be that smart:rolleyes: Seems to me you can die just as quick from 75 gr as you would 55gr.. It's shot placement duh! Oh and by the way the Vietnam SEAL silenced pistol "Hush puppy" was a .22 short! So what do the "Smart guys" say to that?????:o
Er. No, it wasn't.
[QUOTE=carbinero;367051]
Oh and by the way the Vietnam SEAL silenced pistol "Hush puppy" was a .22 short! So what do the "Smart guys" say to that?????:o
Yeah, it was used to shoot dogs... hence the name.
Sorry I said "smart guys." Obviously there are smart guys on both sides.
I like a response I once read to the question: "Best AR-15 Upgrade? 6.8 upper."
I also like the shot placement idea. No reason for a 3-shot burst with the 6.8.
In all seriousness, why wouldn't you want the ballistic advantage?
sgtdevildog
05-15-09, 06:37
I recently went through the same process. Decided I needed to add an AR to the fold. Last AR - w/USMC 5.56 M16A1 DI a long, long time ago. After checking the ballistics and what I wanted to do - mainly hunt and punch paper, not only did I decide to go with a 6.8spc - I also went with a piston. Now, I wouldn't use it for HD - got a .45 for that. But for the better ballistics and easier maintenance I thought for my situation the 6.8 was better. Will it cost more to shoot - yes, but I probably won't burn up thousands of rounds a month. If my main purpose was to do 3 gun or compete, my choice may have been different. YMMV
Preferred User
05-15-09, 10:05
[QUOTE=carbinero;367051]Oh and by the way the Vietnam SEAL silenced pistol "Hush puppy" was a .22 short!
Google is your friend.
During the Vietnam conflict, the US Navy sponsored development of the silenced pistol for use by its SEAL teams. Nicknamed the hush-puppy because of its intended function of killing enemy watch dogs, this modified version of the steel framed Smith & Wesson model 39 pistol was put to other clandestine used as well. Called the mark 22, mod. O pistol by the Navy, the hush puppy had a slide lock to keep the mechanism closed and silent while firing. It fired a special green tipped 9mm parabellum projectile weighting 10.2 grams (158 grains that yielded a muzzle velocity of 274m.p.s. (900 f.p.s), below the speed of sound. Use of standard supersonic ammunition quickly degrades the effectiveness of the silencer insert. With subsonic ammunition, an insert is good for about 30 rounds; with standard velocity cartridges the insert may have to be replaced after six shots. Official navy designation for the silencer is mark 3, mod.0 . Ammunition and replacement silencer parts are supplied as accessory kit MK26, Mod.0. Each accessory kit includes 24 9mm pistol cartridges MK144, mod.0 and one silencer tube insert.
All the work on the model 39 hush-puppy was carried out by Smith & Wesson before the end of 1968. Subsequently, Smith & Wesson provided two prototype 13-shot pistols made from stainless steel. These weapons were improved to overcome problems such as extractor breakages, which had been experienced with the model 39. This modified pistol in a slightly different form as later commercially marketed as the model 59 Smith & Wesson 9mm parabellum pistol.
Combination over all length 12 ¾ inch
Total weight with out magazine 34 oz
WOX-1A silencer
Over all length 5”
Total weight 8oz
WOX-13A pmm pistol
Over all length 8 ½”
Total weight with out magazine 26 oz
WOX-13A pmm pistol and WOX-1A silencer
Combination over all length 12 ¾ inch
Total weight with out magazine 34 oz
From:
Small Arms of the World
Page 175 –177
By Edward Clinton Ezell
Publisher: Stackpole Books; 12th Rev edition (December 1983)
ISBN: 0811716872
...of course that wasn't me talking about the hush puppy...Accurate quoting is your friend ;)
Anyhow, what all that has to do with the 6.8spc, I don't know. I see no use in discussing a pistol round of any sort in this thread.
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