FNH's new red dot sighted .45 ACP combat pistol

[gunwriter]

FNH is coming out with a double-action .45 that can be carried cocked and locked
with a low mounted Doctor red dot sight mounted into the slide. It has iron sights
that co-witness with the red dot. Barrel is threaded for a sound suppressor.

This is the first social pistol I have seen come from the factory with a red dot.

Think its the way of the future?
Article and pics here:

http://www.tacticalgunfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=535&Itemid=1

[NinjaMedic]

Way of the future? Probably for duty/tactical style pistols. It has been posted several times in the past on here, however this is the first that any one has mentioned it being released to the civy market. Does anyone from FN want to chime in and confirm/deny?

[gunwriter]

They told us it was coming out this fall at an editorial roundtable last week.

[Heavy Metal]

I shot the prototype at a LAV class last year that SF 1911 was attending(without the small red dot), it was pretty sweet.

[EzGoingKev]

"supplied with one 15-round magazine and two 14-round magazines"

Whats the deal with that? Are the 14 round mags flush and the 15 round mags extended like a Glock's +2?

[gunwriter]

Yes, 15 round mag is extended

[SinnFéinM1911]

Yes, it is being released.

From what I understand, there will be different plate interfaces for several different MRD's to mount to it... I heard it from a guy who knows a guys who met me :D

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

This seems to me to be the way of the future. Does anyone have a setup this slick on a 1911 slide? I have seen a few, but they all replace the rear sight.

[Steve]

I also heard the Japanese defense force is running these

[6933]

Probably reliable and tough. FN usually makes good stuff. Wouldn't mind having one. Wonder what the price will be?

[9mm_shooter]

http://fnforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=9126

[Wally]

I need one...anyone know approx. pricing? Wally

[NCPatrolAR]

Interesting concept and something I've heard other people talking about. I'd be interested in seeing it applied to something like the Smith M&P. The FN pistols leave much to be desired to me.

[NinjaMedic]

Well if they get released I will probably have to pick one up to complement my MK23 and FNP40. MSRP with optic would probably be between 1000-1500$ right?

[khc3]

What are the muzzle thread specs?

[NinjaMedic]

Anyone that had the oportunity to put any rounds downrange with this pistol at the Vickers Class or elsewhere, when they say the iron sights co-witness what is their definition? Where does the actual red dot fall in relation to the iron sights in your sight picture?

[RSF]

What are the muzzle thread specs? Yes.. I want to know too please.

[SinnFéinM1911]

Anyone that had the oportunity to put any rounds downrange with this pistol at the Vickers Class or elsewhere, when they say the iron sights co-witness what is their definition? Where does the actual red dot fall in relation to the iron sights in your sight picture?

There is some reviews from one of LAV's class's from South Hill last year. If I knew how to work this site I would post a link to it.

Ill check on the thread pitch when I return from the SCAR Feilding

[John_Wayne777]

You can find some impressions of the pistol and some pictures here:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=16765

[decodeddiesel]

MOAR PICS!!!

[LSK]

If you can handle the size the FN pistol is a great value. As to the Doctor sight, it might be great but it is going to get exposed to a lot of fouling of the optic if you fire more than just a few rounds.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I must say, I like it and especially if it comes in black and not OD. The different frame colors don't do it for me, I prefer evil black. I also like the co-witnessing, they did this one right by the looks of things.

[RAM Engineer]

I really wish this thing had some sort of LEM trigger option. I want one, but I can't stand where the thumb safety sits in relation to my thumbs.

[TY44934]

Ever try a dot-sight on a carbine? Find it useful? (most folks find it useful). It is FAR more useful on a handgun.

I've shot USPSA & 3gun for over a decade now. Handguns are more difficult to learn to shoot well than carbines. I've shot dot-sighted handguns and I've shot with only irons - the dot is MUCH quicker to learn.

If you ask about carbines, the Dot sight has clearly "arrived" as a useful combat tool. It should not take long for the world to recognize how useful a co-witnessed, reliable dot on a handgun can be.

[TiroFijo]

The first time I saw a picture of a Docter red dot sight on top of an auto pistol was in 1991... let's see if it catches on now :)

[rubberneck]

The first time I saw a picture of a Docter red dot sight on top of an auto pistol was in 1991... let's see if it catches on now :)

The Son Tay raiders had the earliest version of red dot sights on their guns when they pulled off their raid. It only took another 25 years for the technology to catch up to prove the concept. Most small dot sights, like the doctor, are notoriously fragile. If they can make a sight the size of a doctor but with the robustness and battery life of an aimpoint than we are seeing the future. Frankly I think we are still 5 to 10 years away from that.

[TiroFijo]

rubberneck, I agree with your "5 to 10 years"... we'll see.

[loupav]

I like it. But want it black.

Kinda makes me want this sight setup for one of my USP's.

[RogerinTPA]

Interesting concept and something I've heard other people talking about. I'd be interested in seeing it applied to something like the Smith M&P.

There was a thread a while back where someone on here had a docter optic on his M&P, but he had to have his slide milled out, in order for it to fit. It would be interesting to see that site mounted on my FS M&P45 though.:cool:

[VooDoo6Actual]

+1 rubberneck's comments

[Wally]

Wishfull thinking on my part, but does anyone have any updates or informatin on this thing? Had to ask...Wally

[Saginaw79]

A number of years ago Id have said this was an insane, assinine and dangerous idea, but with most my rifles wearing red dots why not pistols, now it seems like a genius idea and not just for competition

[Wally]

I have a Blackside on a HK Tactical. Great package, but I would be willing to change the threading and/or add a LID just to try something different. I like the idea of the red dot above the suppressor.

I understand that it will get dirty, is somewhat fragile, etc. but I am more of a recreational shooter i.e. I don't carry for a living.

Thanks, Wally

[TOrrock]

From the Vickers Subgun class 2-3 August 2008 in South Hill, VA.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=17620&highlight=subgun

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Subgun%20Aug%202-3%2008/P1000784.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Subgun%20Aug%202-3%2008/P1000789.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Subgun%20Aug%202-3%2008/P1000790.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Subgun%20Aug%202-3%2008/P1000813.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Subgun%20Aug%202-3%2008/P1000815.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Subgun%20Aug%202-3%2008/P1000827.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Subgun%20Aug%202-3%2008/P1000829.jpg

[RogerinTPA]

Very nice pics Templar. Thanks for posting them. Looks like it was an awesome class with all the cool toys you guys got to try out.:cool:

[canucksvt]

I really hope FN decides to sell this pistol in this configuration to civilians. I have not shot the .45 version but have had some trigger time on the FNP9, which I enjoyed very much. Currently my favorite pistol is my M&P45, but this FNP45 looks like it will compete strongly for my time, attention and ammunition!

[Saginaw79]

My wallet just hid itself screaming...WANT!

[Kyle E. Coyote]

I need this. I'd probably put a standard barrel in it, but what a good looking gun.

[Turnkey11]

If it comes exactly as shown in post #34 I will most definitely buy one.

[Kyle E. Coyote]

The more I think about it, though, I wouldn't mind much if the sights weren't co-witnessing. I'd be just as happy with regular FNP sights for backup.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Would this be the answer for people with cross hand-eye dominance problems?

[NextGhost]

Definitely want, would like to spend some of my TDY pay on that when I get home. Anyone know if FN offers a military discount ? ;)

[RAM Engineer]

Would this be the answer for people with cross hand-eye dominance problems?

I don't see how. You still need to align the dot with your dominant eye to maximize your potential. I'm cross dominant and I have no problem aligning a handgun with my right hand in front of my left eye. Long guns are another issue, though. There I just shoot lefty, red dot or not.

[SinnFéinM1911]

The sights were not desinged for a co-witness, it just works out that why. We needed high sights for supressed use.

[NinjaMedic]

Theoretically couldn't you mill an integrated rear sight into the red dot as a backup?

[Falboy]

Then you would have no sights if you took the dot off. I've seen other pictures where there was a "filler" plate installed in the dot sights absense.

[NextGhost]

Theoretically couldn't you mill an integrated rear sight into the red dot as a backup?

Like so?

Linky (http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=577&back_row=1&categoryID=13)

[TOrrock]

Then you would have no sights if you took the dot off. I've seen other pictures where there was a "filler" plate installed in the dot sights absense.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/TD1/P1000470.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/TD1/P1000471.jpg

[NinjaMedic]

Like so?

Linky (http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=577&back_row=1&categoryID=13)

Hmmm guess I never made the connection that the notch was meant to be part of an BUIS system for the red dot, but exactly what was thinking :)

[Turnkey11]

Any updates? My SCAR needs a sidearm that shares the same color scheme and cool factor.:D

[SoDak]

I wonder if this gun would be a good match for that mini red dot Insight is making.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I think that this is a really interesting concept. I've shot my buddies USPSA OPen gun and even with a crappy C-more (I don't think it is very tolerant of off axishead placement) it was a hoot to shoot fast. All they need then is a gyro in the recoil spring to offset recoil anticipation and we are all good to go!

I wonder how one of those Trijicon RMR sights would fit on there? Might be a bot more robust than the Doctor? Lord knows that dot in the RMR is big and bright enough.

[bnanaphone]

I placed one of the Burris Fastfire RDS on my G35 and it has worked out quite nicely. I only wish I had the slide milled to accept a recessed sight (I have a plate that fits in the rear sight slot so no backup options).

I will say that shooting small targets consistently at 25 yards is MUCH easier now!

That FN seems like a real winner to me as well.

[rob_s]

I've wanted to try this off and on for quite a while with a Glock, and almost even bought an M&P just to do this with.

Is this something that is going to be commercially available with threaded barrel and optic, or optic cut, and will this treatment make it to a 9m version?

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I've wanted to try this off and on for quite a while with a Glock, and almost even bought an M&P just to do this with.

Is this something that is going to be commercially available with threaded barrel and optic, or optic cut, and will this treatment make it to a 9m version?

+1 on that config Rob, especially in an M&P. If you end up finding someone to do it I'd be very interested. Maybe doing two will help bring down the cost. I want the second one, not the first one where they figure it out how to do it ;)

[loupav]

I'd be down to get a Smith M&P 45 set up like this. I can finally have a M&P!

Keep me updated guys.
:)

[davemcdonald]

I am really interested in this also. I hope FN releases it. Gemtech has one as a demo weapon and I tried talking Kel out of it but to no avail. It would make a great suppressed system.

Dave

[Iraq Ninja]

I have been playing around with a micro aimpoint mounted on a Glock, using the aimpoint mount.

I like it, but it is easy to loose the dot if your presentation is not spot on. You end up looking through an empty tube, fishing for the red dot. I am thinking this is due to the nature of the aimpoint design.

Does the burris, J point, etc style have the same issue?

[rob_s]

I have been playing around with a micro aimpoint mounted on a Glock, using the aimpoint mount.

I like it, but it is easy to loose the dot if your presentation is not spot on. You end up looking through an empty tube, fishing for the red dot. I am thinking this is due to the nature of the aimpoint design.

Does the burris, J point, etc style have the same issue?

I have found the same thing with the Aimpoint, and I think the JP type are more forgiving in this department.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Sounds like FN may have something on their hands here if they can get it out. I think the blank to return it to a standard look is a nice touch. Those cut outs for sights on IPSC Open guns can look kind of funny if they aren't filled in.

Part of me likes the idea of 9mm. Less recoil, more rounds - just seems to me to better fit the 'speed' mode that a RDS would bring.

[Byron]

I have been playing around with a micro aimpoint mounted on a Glock, using the aimpoint mount.

I like it, but it is easy to loose the dot if your presentation is not spot on. You end up looking through an empty tube, fishing for the red dot. I am thinking this is due to the nature of the aimpoint design.

Does the burris, J point, etc style have the same issue?


I have found the same thing with the Aimpoint, and I think the JP type are more forgiving in this department.

I have a G19 outfitted with an Optima and don't find it any more forgiving than an Aimpoint. With my arms extended in my shooting stance, I only need to deflect the pistol about two degrees to make the dot disappear (when it was previously centered in the window).

Here are my experiences with it in Todd's Aim Fast Hit Fast class:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=36612

And when I got back I was discussing the issue with someone else. Here's an animated GIF I made to show how little deflection is needed to make the dot disappear.

http://byrong.com/optima/anim.gif

The presence of tall irons should definitely help with tracking the pistol through recoil, but unless the Doc sight is significantly different in terms of optics, I still think you'll lose the dot. I know it is significantly different in terms of housing, but isn't the window still about the same size?

[Wally]

I know these things take a while to go from prototype to public, but does anyone know if this even going to be available in the future? I will wait for this instead of buying an HK Tactical...

Thanks, Wally