View Full Version : KAC not resting on laurels
Well most know now that DD's rail was selected as the RISII selction.
I much prefered the KAC URX - but I am not USSOC (and I think SCAR-L and H will suck most of the joy out of DD's RISII)
The midlenght URX MRE
Destined from my understanding to be the basis rail of the KAC SR15E3 URX carbines soon to be rolling off the shelves.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/23392_as_sent.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/23392_barrel_down.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/23392_taper_pins.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/front_post_adjust.jpg
And soon to be rolling down the Euphrates
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/11.jpg
well okay mine will be sporting a HK Gl...
Please oh please stop posting that pic of the SBR... My wallet is already hurting as it is... :)
BTW, you wouldn't happen to know the part #'s for the reflex quadrant sight?
My Mil catalogue and SOPMOD Block II paperwork is all at home.
However I think Coldblue can help...
The 11.5 is sweet - I'm going to need two -- one to donate to the GWOT and one for home.
It's too bad we, the general public, can't get their stuff. I am very sad.
I just found this - thought I'd post it in case anyone else was interested... But it still doesn't look like the one pictured on the SBR - which almost looks like it's built into the M203 URX mount.
http://www.mobilemediacorp.com/ar15/kacquad.gif
I don't think anyone has ever accused KAC of sitting back and resting. They are always working on new projects, which is a good way to do things. The failure (or sucess) of one concept or project may be the foundation of a new project down the road. Its like that in any business.
I think main complaints I've heard about KAC have been that most people can't get their hands on them. :D
deadwood83
01-08-07, 14:26
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/11.jpg
Anyone know where to get that front sight or even what it's called?
Looks like a Swiss Army rail.
I like the looks of both of those weapons.
KAC's offering had a very short bottom rail, about 3/4 inch shorter than a RAS it seemed. Not enough room for a light and foregrip, as we found out in testing.
The DD is a good offering, taking everything good about the KAC MRE and adding a monolithic-style top rail, and a detatchable bottom rail that is still rock solid when attached, facilitating the use of a 203.
I preferred for the DD in testing, but if KAC had made a URX in the profile of the MRE I would have been really happy with it as well. KAC's attatchment system is less bulky in my opinion, and has less of a chance to snag on stuff.
I'm wondering why KAC was not notified that a MRE style was what was wanted. From what I understand, the URX MRE is lighter and has a slimmer profile than what DD submitted.
I’d like to see how a “MRE” style of rail will work on a MK18. :confused:
SOPMOD block II was designed for the M4 platform only, so no consideration was given to a barrel other than 14.5. There will be none allocated to the MK18s from the SOPMOD program.
The other submission by ARMS...a SIR that was flush to the upper...was not extended either.
I still love how KAC is going after the front flip up integrated into a portion of the rail. I remember seeing a prototype awhile back and thought it was really neat. Then one day on TOS, someone posted a thread asking for ideas to incorporate into his own custom fore end he was going to mill. I suggested a sight like that and he sent me a package of Magpul Ranger Plates as a prize!!
That front flip up gas block looks like the standard front flip up everyone's wanted forever.
That GL sight looks like a Doctor Optics sight- in one of the pictures it has it's rubber cover on.
That really short barrel looks just like Vltor's 12.5" barrel where the FS is threaded on just in front of the 203 cut.
There will be none allocated to the MK18s from the SOPMOD program.
I kind of figured that since the MRE wouldn't work on a MK18 anyway.
As Kevin B stated on TOS... if they would've chosen the URX, a M203 would have been able to FF on the MK18 and the M4.
In a perfect world.... the URX and the URX MRE would've been adopted for use with both platforms. ;)
Looks awesome Kev, FYI: Ref the HK GL, just don't shine the blue light on it, you'll find little pieces of Ray floating down the Euphrates as well.:D
The MK18 was a stop-gap between the M4 and something else more suitable to use in the NAVSPECWAR arsenal.
I seriously doubt any further development or consideration will go into the MK18 weapons.
They're going to get you now...
Did you not know it is THE weapon for long range moutain fighting... :rolleyes:
I dont think its the end all be all -- but for those without access to exotics it works -- and its a lot better than those Hk UMP's sitting the vault next door.
The MK18 was a stop-gap between the M4 and something else more suitable to use in the NAVSPECWAR arsenal.
The MK18 was the replacement to the MP5. Everything is a "stop-gap" because there is always a quest to find something that works better, is more reliable, or fills your needs better.
The MK18 will be around as long as the M4 is still in service because of parts commonality, unless: 1. The SCAR is issued to SOCOM (the M4 will be gone to) 2. The HK416 is issued NSW wide.
There is nothing out there, in the short barrel variety, which is more reliable and proven than the MK18 and HK416.
The SCAR is going to replace the M4. You are correct, the MK18 will remain in service as long as their are M4s, propably for some time even after the SCAR is fielded. The MK18 is one of the most poorly utilized SOF weapons available, like Kevin was saying it's "cool factor" seems to lend to it's use in all the wrong situations (IE in the mountains of Afghanistan). Carrying an M4 when you could carry a MK18 is like wearing ALICE gear when you have Paraclete.
The 416 thing ain't gonna happen, which is a shame. Too many people on high have killed that idea already.
Since the Surface Navy decided to have a Non-Compliant Boarding capability for their boarding teams and since SURFOR decided that the Mk18 would be an issue weapon for these teams, I forsee a long future for the Mk18 in Naval service. Maybe not in SPECWAR, but SPECWAR is not my concern. My Surface Sailors are.
Voodoochild
01-09-07, 19:26
That is one weird ass looking setup Kevin but I guess it doesn't really matter what i think because I am not HSLD. Also KAC is cashing in big so I don't think they will care much either.
The SCAR is going to replace the M4. You are correct, the MK18 will remain in service as long as their are M4s, propably for some time even after the SCAR is fielded. The MK18 is one of the most poorly utilized SOF weapons available, like Kevin was saying it's "cool factor" seems to lend to it's use in all the wrong situations (IE in the mountains of Afghanistan). Carrying an M4 when you could carry a MK18 is like wearing ALICE gear when you have Paraclete.
The 416 thing ain't gonna happen, which is a shame. Too many people on high have killed that idea already.
Why not the 416? Hrm.......
Politics. This horse has been beat to death. Get ready for the SCAR.
They spent millions on the SCAR. Low-rate fielding is beginning very very soon. Nobody will outfite an entire command with a gun SOCOM will see as a step backwards (whether it is or not).
You are correct, the MK18 will remain in service as long as their are M4s, propably for some time even after the SCAR is fielded.
I thought I saw that the SCAR is going to have a short barrel variant to replace the Mk18's. Or did that get dumped?
The MK18 is one of the most poorly utilized SOF weapons available, like Kevin was saying it's "cool factor" seems to lend to it's use in all the wrong situations (IE in the mountains of Afghanistan).
The MK18 + suppressor does make sense for mounted patrols. You have the advantages of the can in a package that's very close in size to a M4.
The 416 thing ain't gonna happen, which is a shame. Too many people on high have killed that idea already.
It is a shame. Same manual of arms as the current issue, less expensive, and has been proven in combat. It's a no brainer IMO.
BTW.... Sorry for the hijack Kevin. ;)
The SCAR will still have a short barrel, but it's going to be a while before they are fielded completely and the transition is over. The SCAR is going to be a pretty decent gun.
THe Mk18 with a supressor may be good in a house, or on a ship, but for a mounted partol it seems like a poor choice. Taking the already poor ballistics of 5.56 out of the short barrel and adding a can onto into slow it down even more takes a huge impact on it's lethality. I wouldn't carry one if I had any other options, because while it's the best compromise between a SMG and a carbine to date, it's still pretty ineffective at even modest distances.
KAC's SR15E3 Carbine -- for 2007
Coming soon to a dealer near you
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/KACSR15E32007a.jpg
FWIW with a good can (KAC, Gemtech, OPSINC, and the Finish BR-Tuote stuff) you will get a 25-40fps Freebore boost on velocity.
Its not going to reduce lethality -- that was the old school subgun wipe cans...
I chrono my 14.5 M4A1 with a KAC vintage can at 50-60 FPS slower than unsupressed with M855.
Take into account these cans are vintage SOPMOD block 1 first issue. Propably like 1994 manufacture.:D
KAC's SR15E3 Carbine -- for 2007
Coming soon to a dealer near you
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/KACSR15E32007a.jpg
FWIW with a good can (KAC, Gemtech, OPSINC, and the Finish BR-Tuote stuff) you will get a 25-40fps Freebore boost on velocity.
Its not going to reduce lethality -- that was the old school subgun wipe cans...
Does anyone have price point information yet?
M4Guru -- We noticed that on some early KAC cans that had been on several different weapons and their baffles looked like hamburger -- part from people switching the Flash hider and never ensuring it was torqued on (from weapon to weapon for photo or range testing). The same can be noted on OPSINC or other cans that have been abused beyond their lifespan (if the gun goes thru a barrel it is likley time to replace the can is my moto).
A friend of mine in Canada had Al Paulson up and they metered and chrono'd about 7 different cans (in NIB or ANIB condition) -- all had freebore boost noted.
I have the pricing (dealer) -- I think retail they will be about $2k for what is shown above. I think KAC is seriously trying to win back the civilian market
A bit more for the appetite.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/SR15E3P2a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/SR15E3P3a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Weapons/SR15E3P4a.jpg
Wow, that's a lot of ambi controls and a shitload of sling attachments. I'm confused now :o
Seriously, the bolt looks tasty thou.
I just noticed that the markings on the side of the magwell are different as well. I think I like the old style better... But I'll still buy one. :D
I'm wondering if they have any plans for a civi legal PDW!
THe Mk18 with a supressor may be good in a house, or on a ship, but for a mounted partol it seems like a poor choice. Taking the already poor ballistics of 5.56 out of the short barrel and adding a can onto into slow it down even more takes a huge impact on it's lethality. I wouldn't carry one if I had any other options, because while it's the best compromise between a SMG and a carbine to date, it's still pretty ineffective at even modest distances.
The MK18 has been used to engage targets at 300+ yards with good effects. Are the "ballistics" as good as a 14.5" at longer distances? Nope... but it will get the job done with proper shot placement. I don't read too much into the "ballistic" talk, as I've personally seen a 22LR provide the same results as a 45 acp, both were single shots to the chest... they were DRT. I've also seen many bullet wounds from various calibers and the subject survived. Shot placement is key.
As Kevin said... the velocity of the round is not reduced when a can is attached to a Mk18.
Can you cite a source where a short barreled AR such as a MK18 was used with good effects at 300M?
Can you cite a source where a short barreled AR such as a MK18 was used with good effects at 300M?
I'll send you a PM when I have a little more time. I want to stop crapping in Kevins thread as it is off-topic.
Very interesting... I wonder if the folding front sight/gas block will be an option. It looks like a very nice set up overall.
Spooky
Holy Chicken Wing Batman!!!!
But seriously, that IS a lot of ambi control... Don't know if I like all of that but I do like how they incorporated the sling swivels everywhere- I give them credit for that.
I am disappointed that everyone has to come up with their own enhanced triggerguard and can't just use Magpuls. RRAs looks like ass. POFs built in triggerguard is not so pretty and this one is the same as a Magpul but just a little off...
What's the story on the bolt? Will the SR15 only accept the KAC redesigned bolt? If so, are there any concerns about availability of parts in the future? (to civis that is)
baffle Stack
01-10-07, 23:29
WoW! That IWS has so many useful features it's making my head spin.
E3 weapons have the E3 bolt.
KAC/KMC has a distributor lined up that will be supplying parts to dealers from my understanding
Submariner
01-11-07, 09:18
Wow, that's a lot of ambi controls and a shitload of sling attachments. I'm confused now :o
Looks like the LaRue/VTAC sling, as marketed with the two swivels, was made to be bundled with this. Did they know what KAC was doing?
Looks like the LaRue/VTAC sling, as marketed with the two swivels, was made to be bundled with this. Did they know what KAC was doing?
Supposedly they are coming out with a new upper, the "Quad S" if I recall. I'm sure their new sling will be the perfect compliment to it.
Looks like the LaRue/VTAC sling, as marketed with the two swivels, was made to be bundled with this. Did they know what KAC was doing?
hmm...
Don't think so. I think they knew what I was doing though... Aside from me, there were a lot of people starting to use the DD clamp on QD sling swivel at the rear of the handguards and there were also a lot of people who had bought the newer LaRues that had the built in mount point. A lot of those people also had Vltor stocks and it was therefore a no-brainer that new slings would have QD attachments like that...
:D
to get back on track, if the price point sticks at $2,000, this looks like a very reasonably priced package. I did some quick numbers based on the Operation Parts price list and came up with this. (warning: Some guestimation involved...)
Crane Stock $200
KAC gas block $91
KAC flash hider $104
600M BUIS $177
KAC 2 stage trigger $318
URX MRE $500 - $600 (just a guess / includes front sight)
That's $1,390 - $1,490 not including the barrel, E3 BCG, trigger guard, ambi mag release, ambi safety, a crapload of swivel attach points, Upper rec., or the new ambidextrious lower. Very Cool!:cool:
I guessing at the URX prices and they will likely come down if rumors of commercial availability are true. It's still a heck of a package. I can't wait to see some up close pics from SHOT. Overall, there would be very little to add to a package like this. Probably a MIAD or Battlegrip and optic of your chioce, presto! and done.
KevinB, what can you tell us about the "cold hammer forged" barrel? Would you compare it to a milspec bbl or a more accurate precision barrel with chrome bore & chamber? 4150 chrome vanadium?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.