View Full Version : GRSC Scope
I just got back from a very interseting shooting session. I went out with Ed Verdugo from GRSC to test a prototype 1-4x illuminated combat scope he is testing that features his patented General Purpose Reticle. This variant is calibrated for 62 gr. bullets from a 1/7 M4 14.5" barrel. I just happen to have a really good Noveske Afghan barreled Colt.
We went to West End gun club in SoCal and were fighting winds that went from steady 20 mph, to gusts to over 60 mph..............great range day:rolleyes: , and thank God for steel targets.
We zero'd the rifle (with both the GRSC scope and my TA55........thanks to Mark LaRue for making optics swaps totally easy and accurate) and went to work.
The 100-200 yard stuff was disgustingly easy with the center dot of the "Horseshoe" reticle. Even with the wind, we were easily able to make rapid hits. We had a few shooters ranging from Ed and I with extensive shooting experience to a young man who had never fired a rifle in his life. The rookie (with strong young eyes and good health) was hitting steel silhouettes at an alarming rate. THe scope makes this stuff easy once he was shown how to range and use the reticle.
We went to the long range and were hitting easily at 300 yards with the 300 yard dot....dead on. The 400 yard target was down, and it was almost imposible to get really good spotting on it, so we moved to a humanoid size steel target at a lasered 532 yards with Winchester 62 gr. police training ammo. We all got some hits using the 5-600 yard dots and the horizontal lines that equate to 10" spacing in that are of the scope for windage correction for the horrendous 30-60+ mph winds we were getting flowing out of two seperate canyons...................this was very tough shooting conditions.
We were concerned about having to use a 550-600 yard dot to get on with elevation, so we switched to Canadian SS109 NATO ammo........whole new ball game. This was definately hotter and was hitting dead on-a hair low with the 500 yard dot, and a hair high with the 550. Once we got the wind figured out, the novice shooter got three back to back hits at dusk at a measured 532 yards on a 30" wide target in horrendous conditions just by using the reticle, and never touching a turret on a 4x scope. This is pretty impresive. When we switched the illumination on when it got dark, it was a little too bright for my taste, but that is a compromise to get the daytime brightness up to a usable level.
This reticle design is the absolute hot ticket. Ed is working on prototype scopes at a nuts price-point (soldier usable and affordable). Hopefully, the scope will weather some tough testing as far as ruggedness.
My dream is to have Mark LaRue start building scopes with this reticle............my world would be perfect.
I have encouraged Ed to start posting here as I believe the experience and technical expertise of the folks here is on a higher level than other places he has been, and can provide a good arena to share what he is doing.
militarymoron
01-09-07, 09:18
i wonder if that's the same scope ed showed me more than a year ago (i think USO might have made that prototype). if i recall correctly, the IOR CQB scope reticle is loosely based off ed's GPCR horseshoe. i hope ed's closer to getting it to market.
http://static.flickr.com/90/247936718_a44355636c.jpg
i have been t&e enclosed horseshoe reticle for another company for over a year now...... it has bdc hash and light horseshoe reticle....not a great reticle shot but you get the idea
http://static.flickr.com/89/247936662_d522c528bc.jpg
Steve,
Is that the Mueller 1-4x scope that was discussed for a long time over at the other site?
If it is how is it holding up and is illuminated reticle visible in bright day light?
yes it is,
i have been one of the main tester for a while now
it has been beat to death by me on various gun's
hk 91
m-14
ars and slug guns
the reticle is not going to be used the issue ofthe bdc and different ammo etc......
so we went back to square one.
new illumination system and regular crosshair, the new system is bright only about 200hours though battery life
final run will be either a german type with the new dot or regular reticle
and a one peice tube and a staright 20 mm not the flared 25 mm objective seen there!
it has held up great so far and tracked well i loan then to students to use and run at matches the fov at 1x is amazing
Steve,
Is that the Mueller 1-4x scope that was discussed for a long time over at the other site?
If it is how is it holding up and is illuminated reticle visible in bright day light?
Sure looks like the Meuller to me.
A "guy" on TOS, supposedly from Meuller, stated that the above reticle had been shitcanned, and the scope will go into production with a German #4 I believe.
Who the hell knows what will happen with the Meuller, my faith has been lost considering how long that thread has gone on and based on responses from the Meuller rep.
I hope the GRSC offering can come to market at the right price point for the average grunt, while retaining ruggedness and dependability. Time will tell.....or not.
I am that guy from TOS
i only test there gear, i dont work for them
The GRSC reticle is not the same as the one above. I have been watching the progression of Ed's search for the perfect optic and reticle combination for the last 17 years. I am convinced that his currently patented reticle is the way to go. THe issue now is the hardware to house it.
In regards to militarymoron (hey pal:) ), it is similar to the original USO version, but I think this new one actually done specifically for the M4 with GI issue ammunition is better. I only hope the hardware holds up. So far, the glass is excellent for its price point, and I am highly impressed with the prototype. Again, I think the reticle is right on the money, only time will tell on the rest.
I am that guy from TOS
i only test there gear, i dont work for them
Yes, after I looked back at the thread I noticed that you had MI in common, and your typing "style" is unique. ;)
Thanks for the info.
if you saw the size of my hands you would know why :D
deadwood83
01-11-07, 20:20
Nifty! Just a question, what's your version of affordable? I've seen people call $3600 light fixtures affordable. I'll have to watch both scopes closely! I really love my Meuller APV and if their 1-4x is comparable in price and quality my money might lie there. However the GRSC offering sounds really neat. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what affordable is :D
ETA: Any pics of the GRSC?
I recall a few years ago Ed's scope i wont say cause its not my place but the bdc is cool
the mueller will be about 300-350 range
NYETI,
Here are some pictures of the scope and the scope reticle. I'll follow up with more information as soon as I can.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-1X-Illumintat.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-outside-head-.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-1X-Illuminate.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-25yds--1X.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-25yds-4X.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-50yds--1X.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-75yds--1X.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-75yds--4X.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-100yds--1X.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-100yds--4X-C.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-100yds--4X-H.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-200yds--4X.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-300yds--4X-H.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-400yds--1X-R.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-500yds--4X-H.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-500yds--4X-R.jpg
ACTUAL SIZE OF SCOPE ON AR15 RIFLE
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/IMG_0116.jpg
SPECS
1-4X 24mm front objective (true 1X)
30mm one piece tube
fast focus eyepiece with diopter range -2 +3.5
exit pupil 1X 24mm 4X 6mm
full multi-coated lenses
eye relief 1X approx. 3.5" 4X approx. 3"
nitrogen filled
water proof 3ft for 1 minute
shock proof tested at 2000g
glass etched FFP GPC M4-62 illuminated reticle
illumination reostat has 11 settings with off position between each setting
CR 2032 battery
battery life approx. 100hours on max illumination
spare battery storage under windage turret cap
windage and elevation adjustment .25" clicks
weight 16oz
length 11.25"-12" (dependent on eyepiece adjustment)
warranty 2 years
MSRP $450 Introductory price $350 (call for military, L.E., Firefighter discount)
expected delivery June '07
OK at that price I will take one soon! Where do I sign up at? I have been wanting a 1-4x scope for my carbine but at some of the prices I decided to hold off but now.....Im ready for one! Thanks for posting!
Grunt Out!
Oh Please be as good as advertised! That is a great optic for that price, you can count me in if it proves to be a solid and robust piece of equipment.
Keep it up!
Having shot one, I want one, too. This thing comes into its own on the 300 yard plus arena. It is so easy to both range and shoot without ever touching a single knob, and in a manner that should work well in the real world (using the head as the object to range).
Many folks have already started the whole "made in China" issue. Well, I know for a fact that Ed has tried to get this thing done by numerous U.S. companies and been met with 'not invented here" syndrome, or they just can't do them at a price point where average soldiers and cops can afford them. It has been a real battle. The company that is doing them for Ed is both established, and from what I have seen, responsive. The optical clarity on the prototype I shot is very impressive for the price.
Hopefully, some forward thinking dealers (that's a hint Grant) will jump on this thing early, and they can start making their way into the hands of the folks who can really use them.
Erick Gelhaus
02-27-07, 00:14
Interesting, very interesting... in a good way.
I guess it looks like the Horseshoe is back then?
This is looking like it could be a really great deal, considering the next step up is the $720 Meopta.
The specs are certainly interesting. I would venture that many of us just can't afford/justify the S&B offering, and that creates a huge opening in the optics market.
The reticle on this offering seems terribly busy. It would seem that a specialized optic like this wouldn't really need the offset ranging marks. They aren't distracting in the "daylight" pics, but when the reticle was lit, the sight picture was busy. I wonder how well one would be able to get a quick snap sight picture from the low ready. I'd like to be able to spend time with one before making a final judgement, but at this point, I have some reservations. I look forward to seeing more, though.
Oh wow... I like that horseshoe reticle... not invasive and the pie plate ranging looks like it was rather well thought out. The price is amazing and the specs sound great... what's the FOV at 1x/4x?
Nyeti,
Is there enough room below the GRSC Scope to fit a rear BUIS? I spoke w/ Ed earlier today and said it might but didn't have one mounted on his rifle. Thanks for any help.
Adrian
If you look at the picture of Ed's MRP on the first page, it does look like one will fit. When I tested the scope, I was using it on a precision upper that doesn't have a BUIS, so I am not sure. I spoke to Ed a couple of days ago, and it looks like we are getting close to getting the first production scopes in hand pretty soon. At that point, I will check it with a Troy fold down rear BUIS.
Thanks! Looking forward to the update.
Hell, at that price, Id buy one just for fun, deficiencies or not.
I asked this question at TOS w/my other user name but got no reply.
Is there any project underway to make a 7.62x51 version of the optic?
TIA
jim
I asked this question at TOS w/my other user name but got no reply.
Is there any project underway to make a 7.62x51 version of the optic?
TIA
jim
The original prototype scopes made for me by US OPTICS used the non caliber specific GPC343 reticle. These are 1.5 to 6X FFP scopes. These scopes work very well on any caliber inculding 7.62X51. This type of scope or a 7.62X51 caliber specific is a possibility but for now all my time and money is tied up in getting the CRS with the GPC M4-64 reticle into production.
Ed
GRSC
Bolt_Overide
04-10-07, 02:14
I would buy one at that price to play with if nothing else.
Since the reticle is calibrated for use with 62gr. bullets, would there be much deviation when using 55gr. bullets in reference to the holdovers on the reticle?
The original prototype scopes made for me by US OPTICS used the non caliber specific GPC343 reticle. These are 1.5 to 6X FFP scopes. These scopes work very well on any caliber inculding 7.62X51. This type of scope or a 7.62X51 caliber specific is a possibility but for now all my time and money is tied up in getting the CRS with the GPC M4-64 reticle into production.
Ed
GRSC
Understood and thanks for the reply Ed!
jim
The GRSC Combat Rifle Scope
(CRS)
Objective:
Enhance the lethality/survivability of the individual war fighter in combat during day and low light conditions.
The CRS with the proprietary General Purpose Combat M4-62
(U.S. patent # 7100320 and other patents pending) illuminated reticle was
designed to meet this objective.
Features:
This reticle consists of :
1. A 4 MOA thick horseshoe
2. A 10 MOA window (hollow area) in the center of the horseshoe
3. Six Mil Dots to the left and right of the horseshoe
4.Ten inch ranging circles (head size)
5.Small aiming dots extending downward from the center of the horseshoe window.
6. 10 inch long horizontal lead lines
7. 11 position illumination rheostat
Instructions:
Zeroing:
The bottom of the scope tube should be about two inches above the bore of the barrel
Put scope on four power
Focus rear eye piece
Use first aiming dot in the center of the horseshoe window
Zero two inches low point of aim point of impact at twenty-five yards.
This reticle is calibrated for the M4 rifle firing M855 ammo
How to use the reticle:
The Horseshoe:
For CQB to two hundred yard speed shooting set the scope on low power. The horseshoe will be your aiming point. The reticle on this scope is on the first focal plane so the horseshoe will get smaller as you decrease the magnification. At low power the horseshoe will appear as a big dot (see picture below).
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-1X-Illumintat.jpg
The long range precision portion of the reticle will get very small and not be useable. As the distance to your target increases the target will appear smaller and the horseshoe will now look like a circle on your target. At CQB to two hundred yards the horseshoe reticle performs as a big dot or circle type aiming point to increase your speed on target. The horseshoe is 4 MOA thick, 18 MOA wide (shoulder width at one-hundred yards). See picture below.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-100yds--4X-C.jpg
The Window:
The hollow center of the horseshoe is called the window. The window of the horseshoe is 10 MOA (head size at one hundred yards).
With the proper zero your bullet will hit on or very near the center of the horseshoe from 0 to 250 yards.
The Mil Dots:
The 6 mil dots to the left and right of the horseshoe serve as anti-canting guide lines and may also be used for ranging.
How To Use The Ten Inch Ranging Circles:
The hollow center of the horseshoe is called the window. The window is used for fast ranging on a man sized target at one, two , and three hundred yards. It is 10 MOA. This equals ten inches at 100 yards ( head size ).
See picture below.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-100yds--4X-H.jpg
Twenty inches at 200 yards (approximately shoulder width). (See picture below).
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-200yds--4X.jpg
Thirty inches at three hundred yards (approximately half a mans body length). Half the window equals ten inches at 200 yards ( head size ).
Ranging Circles:
As described above the window of the horseshoe is to be used as a ranging circle on a mans head at 100 yards.
Half the window of the horseshoe will range a mans head at 200 yards.
The first ranging circle in the center of the lower horseshoe will range a mans head at 300 yards.
The ranging circles below the horseshoe to the left and right of the aiming dot labeled number 4 range a mans head at 400 yards. (see picture below).
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-400yds--1X-R.jpg
The ranging circles below the horseshoe to the left and right of the aiming dot labeled number 5 range a mans head at 500 yards.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-500yds--4X-R.jpg
The Aiming Dots:
As the magnification of the scope is increased the aiming dots will clearly come into view. The aiming dots extend downward from the center of the window. (see picture below) .
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-500yds--4X-H.jpg
The first dot is 1 MOA, it is your aiming point for precision shooting from 0 to 250 yards.
The 2nd aiming dot inside the 300 yard ranging circle is .75 MOA. It is your aiming point at 3 hundred yards.
The 3rd through 7th aiming dots are .5 MOA.
The 3rd dot is your aiming dot at four hundred yards.
The 4th,6th ,and 7th dots are non caliber specific aiming dots.
The 5th dot is your aiming dot at 500 yards.
Horizontal Lead Lines:
The horizontal lead lines allow you to adjust your aiming point for a moving target or windy conditions.
The horizontal lines below the horseshoe allow you to lead a target in 10 inch increments (half frontal body width or full body width sideways) at 4 and 5 hundred yards.
The horizontal lines are 10 inches long at 4 and 5 hundred yards, the space between the horizontal lines is 10 inches at 4 and 5 hundred yards.
Once you have determined the distance to your target using the ranging circles, follow the horizontal lead lines to the center aiming dot. This will be your aiming point for that distance.(see picture below).
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/CRS-GPC-M4-62-500yds--4X-H.jpg
Illumination:
This scope has adjustable illumination in the form of an 11 position rheostat.
The number 1 position is the dimmest and number 11 is the brightest.
The illumination knob can be turned in either direction.
A half turn between any numbered position will turn the illumination off.
In summary:
Advantages Of The GRSC CRS/ GPC M4-62 Reticle Scope
Most experienced shooters will agree the fastest aiming points for CQB to midrange shooting situations are circle or dot type reticles. At low magnification the 4 MOA thick horseshoe of the M4-62 reticle provides the speed of a big dot for CQB, and a circle at midrange distances.
Increasing the magnification provides a fast simple ranging system combined with precision aiming points out to at least 5 hundred yards.
The 11 position rheostat provides illumination for various shooting environments.
www.GRSC.com
Thank you for the very informative post. I wonder if you could post a picture or two of the view through the optic in daylight with lit reticle.
Thank you for the very informative post. I wonder if you could post a picture or two of the view through the optic in daylight with lit reticle.
I may have a sample of the the production scope next week , the illumination on this scope is supposed to be brighter than the preproduction scope I have. I'll get a picture of this up as soon as it comes in.
Ed
GRSC
Since the reticle is calibrated for use with 62gr. bullets, would there be much deviation when using 55gr. bullets in reference to the holdovers on the reticle?
I want to know also :)
KiloSierra
04-19-07, 05:44
The estimated price still looking good?
Thanks, Ed. Nobody has ever confused me with an optimist, but I am becoming rather "anxious".;)
The estimated price still looking good?
10-4 civilian price $350.00 +S&H
ED
GRSC
Does that mean there will be a LE price?
fivepointoh
04-20-07, 17:37
Sounds like a good price and a good optic. I'd be willing to try one out on a new upper I'm building.
fivepointoh
04-25-07, 23:05
Well I'm number 380 on the list out of 500. Should be shipping around June. Thanks Ed!
Does that mean there will be a LE price?
Mike
Yes, there will be a discount for Military, LE, Firefighters.
Ed
GRSC
Well I'm number 380 on the list out of 500. Should be shipping around June. Thanks Ed!
Fivepoint
Your welcome.
ED
GRSC
Bolt_Overide
04-26-07, 11:13
How do I get on the list for this?
Bolt_Overide,
E-mail Ed w/ your name and contact number. He'll contact you after he receives the e-mail.
Mike
Yes, there will be a discount for Military, LE, Firefighters.
Ed
GRSC
what about military-firefighters?;) ;) ;)
shooter521
05-18-07, 08:36
Just an update, guys... Ed says the first batch of scopes may be here sooner than expected - like, today! :eek: He has requested those on the list contact him with their shipping info, so he can start getting labels ready.
From That Other Site:
ATTENTION; I am supposed to recieve the scopes toward the end of this week. If everyone on the list will please e-mail (grscguns@juno.com) your list # name and the mailing address you want the scope sent to. P O Box # will be ok. I will be shipping UPS ground unless you have a PObox. This will allow me to start getting the shipping labels ready.
If you are LE Military or a Firefighter now would be a good time to send some type of ID by e-mail or snail mail.
Thank You
Ed
GRSC
Great! Just when Im out of cash! I need to get on the list as well!
Grunt Out!
I sent an E-mail with my info in it requesting a CRS, but did not receive an answer. Does that mean I'm 'on the list'? Called their office, too (no answer) but didn't leave a message.
They must just be busy. :) I can't wait to get one of these. Anybody got theirs yet?
DKircher,
Ed's pretty good about returning messages. Once he contacts you, he'll advise you of which #'ed scope you'll be on the list for. But they should be in anytime now.
Adrian
Erick Gelhaus
05-25-07, 08:33
Message sent on 04/28, nothing ever heard in return .... sigh ....
DKircher & Erick,
Just in case you haven't heard from Ed, I left him a message to contact you guys.
Update: Spoke w/ Ed about 1/2 hr ago. He's been super busy and is contacting those that have left him v/m and e-mails. Erick, he needs your contact info.
Adrian
DKircher & Erick,
Just in case you haven't heard from Ed, I left him a message to contact you guys.
Update: Spoke w/ Ed about 1/2 hr ago. He's been super busy and is contacting those that have left him v/m and e-mails. Erick, he needs your contact info.
Adrian
Yeah, he called me today and got my info, very nice, standup guy with lotsa knowledge, he just gets overwhelmed with E-mail, then people call and hes outa the office and it looks bad. Give him a chance, he'll get to ya.
ETA: I'm number 455 IIRC. He said if we can remember where we fall in the line it'll help him in the long run.
I am hoping to get my call soon. I emailed on Friday, and again yesterday. :confused:
jim
EDIT: Ed took time out of his Memorial Day to call me - thanks Ed, I do appreciate it. #459, three of my favorite numbers. ;)
Ed got the email and phone call! Thanks!
Grunt Out!
Erick Gelhaus
06-05-07, 19:23
Kali-
Thanks for getting the contact thing going.
Erick
The original prototype scopes made for me by US OPTICS used the non caliber specific GPC343 reticle. These are 1.5 to 6X FFP scopes. These scopes work very well on any caliber inculding 7.62X51. This type of scope or a 7.62X51 caliber specific is a possibility but for now all my time and money is tied up in getting the CRS with the GPC M4-64 reticle into production.
Ed
GRSC
I'm new to this so pardon my ignorance. How is the reticle caliber specific?
Edit: Nevermind got it, it is the 4 and 5 bullet drop.
eflatlander
06-11-07, 09:07
Has anybody heard from ED? I e-mailed him a week or two ago no answer yet?
shooter521
06-19-07, 13:41
Has anybody heard from ED? I e-mailed him a week or two ago no answer yet?
The scopes are here! Ed called me last night to get my payment info, and told me the first batch of scopes would be shipping out at the end of this week. I'm #390 on the list, and Ed told me I'd probably have my scope late next week.
:D
looking at the last pic in post #13, scope body looks very similar to the new millet DMS; since both are being mfgr in china are they likely from the same builder?
just picked up a DMS 2nd gen myself but this scope looks to be a very nice item at a very affordable price point as well!
as a budget shooter, its nice to see some products come out that are leaps and bounds above the 'NcStar' type stuff without jumping up to the S&B short dot price bracket!
thanks for your efforts to bring such a product to the market :)
Waiting to hear your guys thoughts once you get them.
shooter521
06-25-07, 21:14
Received my scope today (6/25)... the day after my range trip. Sigh. :p
Scope is large, somewhat heavy and appears to be very stout - almost overbuilt for a 1-4x. The reticle is very crisp, and the glass is clear and shows good light transmission. This 1st FP reticle is going to take some getting used to; I will reserve further judgment until I've had a chance to get the scope out and do some live fire with it.
Here it is mounted in an LaRue SPR-E on my Recon Carbine:
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/misc%20guns/recon_scope.jpg
And the obligatory reticle pic (4x, no illumination):
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/misc%20guns/recon_reticle.jpg
I thought the production models were NOT going to have the "M4-62" in their reticles. (Or maybe they're going to remove it in the subsequent production runs?)
As I read, the "M4-62" would still be etched in the glass, but wouldn't be lit when the illumination is on.
shooter521
06-26-07, 17:55
As I read, the "M4-62" would still be etched in the glass, but wouldn't be lit when the illumination is on.
The lettering does, in fact, light up with the rest of the reticle. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other, as the lettering is far enough below the reticle that it's not a distraction.
Any more updates or reviews?
Ed checked in at TOS to report that he is going to pick up 200 more scopes today. :)
Got my SPR-E mount from Grant all ready to go.
shooter521
07-10-07, 11:57
Any more updates or reviews?
I just completed EAG/Pat Rogers' Carbine Operators Course with my Recon Carbine rig pictured above. 1181 rounds in 3 days. The scope performed very well, and helped me capture High Overall Shooter honors. :D
My general impression is that the scope at 1x isn't quite "Aimpoint fast," but is quick enough, and allows greater precision. My groups from 3-50 yards were noticeably tighter than when I shoot my dot-equipped carbines. I shot a couple strings from 50 yards at 4x and 2.5x, but found that target acquisition was slowed too much, especially when position changes were thrown into the mix. I would only go greater than 1x at this distance if I a) was in a static position and had plenty of time to acquire the target, and b) was taking a high-percentage shot.
Gripes:
1) the reticle of my scope is canted relative to the scope body. Not a big deal at 1x, but distracting/annoying as hell at 4x. I will be contacting Ed @ GRSC about repair or replacement.
2) The illumination is pretty much useless outdoors, even on a somewhat cloudy day. During the "occluded optic" drills, where we shot with both eyes open and reticle illuminated with the front cover closed, I had to turn the brightness up to 11, and even then the reticle wasn't that bright (but the technique worked). That said, I had no problem picking up the black reticle, even against dark backgrounds/targets.
3) Following the recommended sight-in procedure (2" low at 25 yards) dramatically increases your offset at very close range (3-7 yards). Not necessarily a shortcoming of the optic, but definitely something to be mindful of.
Derek_Connor
07-10-07, 12:57
Gripes:
1) the reticle of my scope is canted relative to the scope body. Not a big deal at 1x, but distracting/annoying as hell at 4x. I will be contacting Ed @ GRSC about repair or replacement.
thats sad to hear :( I hope that isn't a problem with any other production units
shooter521
07-11-07, 08:24
thats sad to hear :( I hope that isn't a problem with any other production units
Ed called me last night and we talked about the issues he's having with getting scopes delivered in the first place, as well as passing QC. Sounds like some major headaches there, but hopefully things will get resolved in the near future. Ed was totally willing to take care of me on the cant issue (which is admittedly a minor thing); he told me to hang onto my scope until he had a new batch in, then to contact him for replacement.
The reticle is great, and overall I'm very pleased with the scope itself and the communication and service I've gotten from GRSC.
Ed called me last night and we talked about the issues he's having with getting scopes delivered in the first place, as well as passing QC. Sounds like some major headaches there, but hopefully things will get resolved in the near future. Ed was totally willing to take care of me on the cant issue (which is admittedly a minor thing); he told me to hang onto my scope until he had a new batch in, then to contact him for replacement.
The reticle is great, and overall I'm very pleased with the scope itself and the communication and service I've gotten from GRSC.
Thanks for the info shooter, I appreciate it. You think that the SPR-E is a pretty good way to go as a mount? I was looking at the standard SPR but I think having that extra eye relief will help me out in the long run.
shooter521
07-11-07, 20:20
You think that the SPR-E is a pretty good way to go as a mount? I was looking at the standard SPR but I think having that extra eye relief will help me out in the long run.
In a word, yes. In more words: I shoot nose-not-quite-to-CH and find the eye relief afforded by the SPR-E to be perfect. Also, consider this: if you buy the SPR-E and don't need all that eye relief, you can always move the scope rearward in the mount and/or the mount rearward on the flat top, to put it where you need to be. If you get the standard SPR mount and end up needing more eye relief, you're pretty much fooked. :eek:
Any othe word? I got a # but havent heard anything since! Just checking! TIA!
Grunt Out!
shooter521
08-02-07, 07:38
[B]Any othe word? I got a # but havent heard anything since! Just checking! TIA!
From the ongoing thread on TOS:
Here's the latest update. There are 200 scopes ready to be assembled . I am told that the reticles (the horseshoe)on these scopes will have shadows to some degree, it will vary from scope to scope. The last sample was not bad. They also changed the illumination LED and the illumination is much brighter but I would not say it is bright enough for bright day light use. Also they say there will be no more canted reticles. If I give the ok for these they should be in my hands in 30 days.
This is how I would sell these. Any scopes that have shadows would be sold with a money back warranty, but they would have to be returned unused. I would sell these scopes at the military discounted price of $250 + s+h. These scopes still have the same M4-62 under the horseshoe. These scopes would also have the regular 2 year warranty.
At this time I could have a new reticle made that would be the same except with the M4-62 not illuminated, smaller and located at the bottom 6 o'clock position of the field of view, Buttttt they cannot guarantee that there will be no shadows in the horseshoe. Delay time unknown.
Also I'm currently talking with other potential manufactures but delay times are unknown and the price of the scopes will be higher. I would very much appreciate input from current CRS scope owners and potential customers.
Thanks
Ed
same issues mueller ran into....
I wonder that he means by shadows and why it can't be avoided. And what is TOS? I want to read some of those responses. Anyone have a link?
EmanP,
TOS = the other site?, here's a link from the AR forums:
http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=315758&page=1
Thread is 17 pages long, hope that helps.
MODs, my apologies if links to other forums are not allowed. Feel free to edit, if so.
shooter521
08-02-07, 22:12
I wonder that he means by shadows and why it can't be avoided.
Some of the black reticle still shows through when the illumination is on, producing a "shadow" effect which causes the reticle to not be as sharp as when the illumination is off (black only). Some scopes exhibit this phenomenon to a greater degree than others within the same batch. Ed said that for some reason, the mfr was having a real hard time getting the illumination to work right in his scope. Maybe it's the reticle design, or maybe it's the first focal plane thing, I dunno. There's also the issue of translation, which is how the "M4-62" lettering ended up prominently visible and illuminated, when Ed specified exactly the opposite.
And what is TOS?
"That Other Site," i.e. ARFcom. See the thread linked above; I'm kinda ferrying information from there to here, for the benefit of M4C members who can't (or won't) visit for themselves.
EmanP,
This is the latest from Ed:
" I met with the owner of the Chinese factory today. Looks like we may be able to get production started up again soon. I don't think they are trying to play me for a fool I believe this factory has its limitations and I'm trying to work with them to get around the current quality control problems. I should have a new pre production sample in about 6 weeks. A couple of minor changes will be made to the reticle. The horseshoe will be a mesh instead solid. This should solve the problems of the shadows in the horseshoe when the illumination is on. The M4-62 will be smaller not illuminated and way at the bottom of the field of view at the 6 o'clock position. More on this later.
It will be interesting to see who tries to copy my reticle first but don't be surprised if it is copied by a good old American company all wrapped in red white and blue."
Thanks! I've got an early number of the second batch.
Would anyone be interested in a S&B Short dot with a M4-62 reticle?
Ed,
Does that mean you've found another source for the scope, other than the Chinese factory?
Would anyone be interested in a S&B Short dot with a M4-62 reticle?
I would be interested if it was under 1k. 2500 and up is way out of my league.
Ed,
Does that mean you've found another source for the scope, other than the Chinese factory?
NO!! BUTTTTT It dosen't hurt to ask these kind of questions. Right now I'm alot like Rodney Dangerfield, " I can't get no respect" but if I can go to a company and say look at the BIG positive response I got to this question I don't think it would hurt.
Ed
GRSC INC
What will that do with the price point(S&B build)?
Would anyone be interested in a S&B Short dot with a M4-62 reticle?I wouldn't and for the very same reasons I didn't end up liking the Meopta Kdot reticle. I wanted an Aimpoint bright dot combined with crosshairs.
That being said, what are your thoughts here. Are you thinking your reticle with the bright S&B dot, or your reticle as presently illuminated in a Short Dot?
No. Ed is looking for another manufacturer to produce the scopes, as the factory that built the first ones (and continues to produce Millets) can't handle the QC, nor the FFP requirements.
Seth Harness
09-25-08, 19:46
I just had a long talk with Ed on the phone yesterday, really nice guy. Im not a distance shooter per-say but his reticle makes ranging and engagement a very natural and easy process. Im sold, if this becomes available in the somewhat near future, I'll buy one. He said he was working on getting a 1-6x optic going with his horseshoe reticle. There is pics over on TOS, extremely impressive. I hope it goes like crazy for him, it sounds like hes been through the ringer and back trying to get a quality oriented and steady manufacturer for his scopes. Good luck Ed, Im pulling for ya.
Seth H.
Bulldog1967
10-08-10, 22:56
Just got a used one from the Calguns forums.
Looks great. I'm going to use a Bobro mount for it.
I have searched for an in depth review of the latest iteration of the 1-4X scope from the Korean supplier but have not found anything. Anyone have any links ??
I have searched for an in depth review of the latest iteration of the 1-4X scope from the Korean supplier but have not found anything. Anyone have any links ??
grscinc.com
Ed Verdugo
GRSC Inc
Any updates/reviews from people who have run them for a while? The QC issues I read about in this thread under control? Are these scopes GTG?
I have one of these that I've been T&E'ing for a couple of months. Dot started out good in daylight but is not bright enough even on the highest setting. I like the concept, just wish the dot was brighter. THats really my biggest complaint. The reticle is a little busy but you get used to it after a while.
Any updates/reviews from people who have run them for a while? The QC issues I read about in this thread under control? Are these scopes GTG?
This thread was started by nyeti almost 4 years ago. The Combat Rifle Scope project was started many many years before that. It has been a very very long frustrating, expensive road with many hurdles but we have never given up and now in addition to our 1-4 ffp CRS, GRSC Inc is the first company in the world to offer for sale a very high quality Japanese manufactured 1-6 ffp horseshoe reticle scope. You may have noticed that this CRS project has set a trend for the whole industry. Some of the same companies that I presented this concept to that rejected it are now producing thier version of HS reticle scopes and some have even put the HS reticle in the ffp.
The 2nd gen 1-4 Korean manufactured CRS has been out for over a year and there are quite a few reviews out on it.
The 1-6 has only been out since Aug so there are not many reviews out on it yet.
For more info on the CRS's you can visit the website @grscinc.com
WATCH THE VIDEOS, they should answer alot of questions you may have.
Thank You
Ed Verdugo
Brackets on the reticle would be nice. Never looked at the k-dot either because of the inability to bracket.
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/OpticsReticles/Schmidt%20Bender/1.1-4x20%20Short%20Dot.jpg
Brackets on the reticle would be nice. Never looked at the k-dot either because of the inability to bracket.
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/OpticsReticles/Schmidt%20Bender/1.1-4x20%20Short%20Dot.jpg
It does have Brackets. The Brackets are based on 10 inches at the given distance. Remember this is a ffp reticle scope so the ranging system is accurate at any magnafication. Chech out the instructions and watch the videos.
Thanks
Ed
German #4 style brackets I mean, they really help with making a shot in a hurry, bring your eyes right to the center of the reticle.
Ed,
Any improvement in the 1X6 on the dot brightness. I have one of the older 1X4's and its really my only compliant.
FYI: Got out to the range a few days with the new 1-6x CRS mounted on my 18” FN FAL using 147gr. FMJ Port. Ammo . I get a lot of questions on how this reticle will work with calibers other than the 62gr 223.
Well now we know how it will work with the 308 out of an 18” FAL rifle. Enjoy the videos
Thank you very much
Ed Verdugo
grscinc.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuELz6myQP4&context=C31b52c2ADOEgsToPDskKq4AD-Gjrv8I8RjSQXSWI2
Ed, just sold my Burris XTR 1-4 to pick up one of your 1-6's. The reticle is what ols me, and I've been wanting a 1-6 for 3gun all season. So after I get back from shot show I'll be place an order
Ed, just sold my Burris XTR 1-4 to pick up one of your 1-6's. The reticle is what ols me, and I've been wanting a 1-6 for 3gun all season. So after I get back from shot show I'll be place an order
Jon
I think you will be very happy with this scope. Reports coming back form buyers of the new 1-6 CRS has been very very positive.. :) I think this is going to prove to be the future for combat rifle scopes.
Thanks
Ed Verdugo
grscinc.com
I actually ordered it before SHOT and had it a few days before I left.
So far, I'm VERY pleased. Only put 30rds thru the gun with it on at 1x and illumination and I love the fact it acts like a red dot at 1x.
Went to the ranger yesterday, here is a live fire demo using the 1-6x NP/GRSC Combat Rifle Scope set on 1x. The rifle is a 18" 7.62mm FN Fal using 147 gr mil spec ammo.
Distances to targets range from 30 feet to 50 yards. First video will be with a hand held video camera followed by the same even recorded through the gun camera
Thanks
Ed Verdugo
grscinc.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrhooRYDUn0&list=UUBBUCjMrdEghnFJZ87_6fKw&index=1&feature=plcp
Several people have asked about a switch view/Cat tail levers for the 1-6x CRS scopes. We found a switch view lever from MGM Inc.
Part number: SVMAPT
Phone number- 208-454-0555
www.mgmswitchview.com
Hope this helps
Thank-You
Ed Verdugo
Grscinc.com
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/IMAG0244.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/IMAG0243-1.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/IMAG0242-1.jpg
Ed,
Will that cat tail work on the 1-4 model also?
Ed,
Will that cat tail work on the 1-4 model also?
Shane,
Sorry but the switch view for the 1-6x CRS does not fit the 1-4x CRS.
Went to the range a few days ago, to try the 1-6x CRS on two different FN FAL rifles shooting at 100 yards. Heres some pictures
DSA Premium Contor 16" Barrel
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/IMG_9945.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/IMG_9946.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/IMG_9941.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/IMG_9940.jpg
Belgium Para 16' with Teludyne Tech Straight Jacket barrel
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/IMG_9955.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/IMG_9952.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/IMG_9950.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/IMG_9925.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g71/grscguns/IMG_9924.jpg
Thank-You
Ed Verdugo
Boba Fett v2
07-24-13, 15:15
Got the GRSC 1-6x24 CRS in hand yesterday and mounted it on an ADM Recon. Initial impressions are very positive. You really have to see and handle this scope in order to fully appreciate it. Very solid optic. No frills and purposely built - looks like it means business, and I appreciate the fact that they didn't go loco with all the laser engraved logos everywhere (e.g. Vortex, Burris, etc.). Very subtle in that regard. Glass is as clear as any Leupy, Nightforce, or any other high quality glass I've peered through. Reticle is incredible. Haven't had to a chance to evaluate the illumination in full daylight considering we currently have an overcast here, but it is performing very well under the current conditions. Considering it's a FFP, the reticle shrinks significantly at 1x, but is still very usable as a reflex sight. Reticle shines at 6x and is truly a work of genius in its design. Weight and Length is comparable to most low power variables in its class. Will report back when I've had a chance to sight in, launch some bullets, and give it a full evaluation. Very impressed so far.
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