View Full Version : What First improvements to a 1911.
Ok so i have a bone stock 1911 made by autoordnance, I'm looking to add some new parts to it to make it a better shooter and fuction faster than stock. Right now its in original GI look,feel, and built. Id' like to get a new grip safety with a bigger beavertail so i dont get any hammer slap. I was looking to do either STI or Wilson parts. I would like to do something with the trigger and hammer. Was looking at a Skeleton style hammer to be snappierand not to sure what i would want for a clean light but match style trigger. Any help from you 1911 Guru's would be great and any links to info on the above mentioned would help me out.
Thank you
Dan
The parts that you are thinking of will cost more than the value of your pistol... I would enjoy it as is and if you decide you want something "more" then look into upgrading the entire pistol...
Just my .02
B
the1911fan
05-21-09, 07:04
Wilson Grip safety, C&S Tactical Match ignition kit, and a Nowlin trigger
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=16406&title=1911%20AUTO%20BEAVERTAIL%20GRIP%20SAFETY
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=5502&title=1911%20AUTO%20TRIGGER%20PULL%20KITS&s=12766#12766
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=9579&title=1911%20AUTO%20LIGHTWEIGHT%20TRIGGER
and don't forget the fitting jig
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=16454&title=1911%20AUTO%20BEAVERTAIL%20FITTING%20JIG
you'll need a new thumb safety also
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=16467&title=1911%20AUTO%20EXTENDED%20THUMB%20SAFETY
If you did the work yourself the money into it would be about $260, if you had a smith do it add anywhere from $200-$275.00 for installation/fitting
Littlelebowski
05-21-09, 07:56
Some decent sights and 1K rounds of practice. That's it.
Business_Casual
05-21-09, 08:25
Awesome grips with the Punisher logo!
M_P
The parts that you are thinking of will cost more than the value of your pistol... I would enjoy it as is and if you decide you want something "more" then look into upgrading the entire pistol...
Just my .02
B
Exactamundo! Don't get sucked into the "I know I can get this 1911 to run" trap.
I'd love to have all the money I wasted on the 1911 platform back. :rolleyes:
If you have an AutoOrdinance 1911, my advice would be to take the money you would spend on quality parts, and the smith to fit them ("drop in" is a cruel 1911 inside joke), and get a 1911 from a quality name (Springfield Armory, Dan Wesson, Colt before you get to the bigger name semi-customs).
Just my $0.02...take it as you will.
-Adam
the1911fan
05-21-09, 10:03
("drop in" is a cruel 1911 inside joke),
.
-Adam
Not really, all the parts that call themselves "drop in" always add the caveat that some fitting may be required. It is not all that difficult if you have Kunhausen manuals or the basic Colt "O" frame armorers manual, Blindhogg has internet site that has excellent info on 1911 smithing http://www.blindhogg.com/
I would agree that having a smith do the work on your AO is financially questionable but if you plan on keeping the gun forever what does it matter. It is a great platform to learn on and the work you are contemplating is not that difficult to do.
The C&S kit for example is mated (Sear, Hammer, and Disconnector) for a safe 4.5 Lbs. trigger pull, unless you truely know what you're doing you have no business messing with the hammer hooks or a secondary angle on the sear.
Fitting a thumb safety is not difficult but it is extremely important to do it correctly. Anyone that learns a new skill has to start somewhere, some spend $3000 and learn from Larry Vickers or C&S or Bob Rogers at one of their 1911 builder classes.
Some learn by studying what is available on the topic and working on a gun to apply what they have learned..you will make mistakes from time to time and you may ruin a part or three. The thing to always be kept in mind is the proper function and safety checks after doing ANY modifications to ANY gun.
Littlelebowski
05-21-09, 10:24
Why not just shoot it and then see?
Ghostface03
05-21-09, 10:30
Some decent sights and 1K rounds of practice. That's it.
+1 Break that sucker in good, then see what you feel would be an improvement.
Oh and I am sure others along with myself would not be turned off if you were to offer a pic. :D:D Never get tired of looking at 1911s.
1911fan:
I agree that with some massaging, you can make parts work. A good reference is also very, VERY handy. I know my copies of the Kunhausen manuals stay on my desk on a near permanent basis.
However, coming from an AR or Polymer gun background, drop in means something completely different. I wasn't sure the OP's background.
We both can agree on though just throwing parts at a 1911 will probably not work as ideally as one would hope for though.
-Adam
Only two parts needed for this pistol.
Wilson Drop-In beaver tail (make sure you get the right one for the frame) and a Commander style hammer so the hammer will fit.
Cameron
Ok so i have a bone stock 1911 made by autoordnance, I'm looking to add some new parts to it to make it a better shooter and fuction faster than stock. Right now its in original GI look,feel, and built. Id' like to get a new grip safety with a bigger beavertail so i dont get any hammer slap. I was looking to do either STI or Wilson parts. I would like to do something with the trigger and hammer. Was looking at a Skeleton style hammer to be snappierand not to sure what i would want for a clean light but match style trigger. Any help from you 1911 Guru's would be great and any links to info on the above mentioned would help me out.
Thank you
Dan
How many rounds on it so far?
parishioner
05-21-09, 19:40
Yes, I think rob_s's thread here....(https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=28658) could apply to this situation.
Its still a new pistol i would say not even 200 through it yet. I mainly thought of just getting the grip safety with longer tail to beable to shoot it longer in 1 session.As some of you mentioned i have thought of buying another 1911 from a well known brand and use that as mainly a match target shooter. The sights on my AO pistol could use a boost of new light ,but thats why i bought a stock 1911 to fit with my ww2 era guns. So i dont know i think before i make a firm decision i will shoot it more and see how it does. Ive found Wilson Com. Mags to work real well in it even with JHP. I guess by posting this i just wanted to get an Idea from the expierenced guys here. Ive thought bout buying frame;s and parts to make a build, My uncle has a STI in 38 super and i would like to lean to something of that nature but say in 40sw so who knows when all this will happen. I appreciate your guys responses to my thread tho.
Dan
How many rounds on it so far?
I agree with your other thread the link was to. Ill just go shoot the crap outta it and see how she rolls as time goes on, and by then ill either have enough saved to buy a new pistol just for target.
I think that's a good plan Codman, and you can judge if you need/want to upgrade the gun you've got or buy another with the features you want. If you get the opportunity, it's nice to try other people's guns with the features you think you might want. See a guy with a set of sights you think might work for you? See if you can put some rounds downrange with their gun and get a feel for whether or not they work for you.
SWATcop556
05-23-09, 01:09
I agree with your other thread the link was to. Ill just go shoot the crap outta it and see how she rolls as time goes on, and by then ill either have enough saved to buy a new pistol just for target.
Good plan. Never hurts to have backup pistols. If you get another one with the features you want then this one can always be regulated to the practice range.
And when anyone asks how many 1911's should I own, my answer is always ONE MORE!! :D
Myself, I would not waste money on trying to make your Ford a Caddy ok! You will be money ahead and better satisfied from the get go, to just save up and purchase yourself a Kimber, Springfield factory brand pistol later. I really like my Kimber pistols but there are other brands just as good. Your choice ok.
Business_Casual
05-24-09, 12:20
Myself, I would not waste money on trying to make your Ford a Caddy ok! You will be money ahead and better satisfied from the get go, to just save up and purchase yourself a Kimber, Springfield factory brand pistol later. I really like my Kimber pistols but there are other brands just as good. Your choice ok.
Welcome to M4C. Kimber isn't that well respected here. You might want to read some more threads and establish your bona fides before handing out advice.
M_P
I agree with most of the others on this, put more rounds down range first. I would also get another gun to do mods on. I like using a Springfield mil-spec.
Some decent sights and 1K rounds of practice. That's it.
Ditto
MarshallDodge
05-24-09, 20:20
Some decent sights and 1K rounds of practice. That's it.
1K rounds is great advice but I would probably leave the sights as-is and then get something worth building on.
You didn't buy a target pistol, you bought a combat pistol. The sights and fit were put together to give you a good chance of hitting something close range. I have an old Norinco 1911 that has the tiny GI sights. They are not the greatest for long shots but after some practice I was able to put an eight round mag into a paper plate at 25 yards.
I agree - shooting 1k rounds is good advice, but if you had that money lying around, you'd have spent more on the pistol.
Shoot a couple hundred, (200-250 at least) and you'll start to have a VERY good idea of what will need changing - then evaluate what changes versus how much more practical additional rounds and focused practice at the range would be worth.
The more experienced hats here will realize how limited a scope on the pistol/platform/your needs that is, but on the budget of 90% of shooters, and given the frequency and intensity of use, I think you'll be best served to make that decision after a couple hundred rounds, and some honest reflection - be it more ammo to see what exact changes, or some immediate fixes and a couple hundred more to iron out the revised pistol.
The best advice I can offer will involve a Delorean and a flux capacitor ...
SWATcop556
05-24-09, 22:46
The best advice I can offer will involve a Delorean and a flux capacitor ...
Ouch! :eek:
My problem with Kimber is that they use a division of the PD of one of the most anti-gun cities in the country as a selling point.
Littlelebowski
05-25-09, 11:31
1K rounds is great advice but I would probably leave the sights as-is and then get something worth building on.
You didn't buy a target pistol, you bought a combat pistol. The sights and fit were put together to give you a good chance of hitting something close range. I have an old Norinco 1911 that has the tiny GI sights. They are not the greatest for long shots but after some practice I was able to put an eight round mag into a paper plate at 25 yards.
So combat pistols can't have decent sights on them? The mil spec sights are abysmal, how could he not benefit from something he can use at night and get quicker on target with?
I really hope this doesn't turn into a "it's perfect as is because JMB designed it that way" argument.
QuickStrike
05-25-09, 11:40
I agree - shooting 1k rounds is good advice, but if you had that money lying around, you'd have spent more on the pistol.
Not much use in trying to upgrade it...
Just shoot the snot out of it and use it as a beater.
So combat pistols can't have decent sights on them? The mil spec sights are abysmal, how could he not benefit from something he can use at night and get quicker on target with?
I really hope this doesn't turn into a "it's perfect as is because JMB designed it that way" argument.
I think it's far from that. It would seem to be more of a "can't polish a turd" argument.
Littlelebowski
05-25-09, 12:17
Yeah probably so, Rob. Still, I think you could get some decent sights for fairly cheap.
JiMfraRED1911
05-25-09, 12:28
Welcome to M4C. Kimber isn't that well respected here. You might want to read some more threads and establish your bona fides before handing out advice.
M_P
Boi Howdy...
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=76086&an=0&page=3#76086
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=56857&page=&fpart=1&vc=1
Yeah probably so, Rob. Still, I think you could get some decent sights for fairly cheap.
Here's the problem.
He has one of these two guns (http://www.auto-ordnance.com/PA-1AO_pkz.html), neither of which has a front dovetail, and both of which have the GI rear. Which means he has to get the sights AND the cut. Best I can figure, it's a $450 (tops) gun on the used market.
At Cylinder & Slide, installing dovetailed front & rear sight is $200+ (http://www.cylinder-slide.com/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=prodshow&ref=CSM101) for parts and labor.
It just doesn't make good economical sense to put 50% of the cost of the gun back into it just in iron sights.
Littlelebowski
05-25-09, 13:19
I had no idea about the sights situation on that gun. I'd probably unload it and get something you can afford to shoot like a 9mm Glock.
Failure2Stop
05-25-09, 14:25
Having seen a few 1911 projects in my time, here is my advice when it comes to working over a 1911-
Make sure you have a dependable proven pistol for use while you try to get the 1911 to run, it will probably see more rounds fired than the 1911 will, before, during, and after the 1911 sidetrack.
If you can't readily replace the sights, dump the project. It's just too much money for such a lacking base.
the1911fan
05-25-09, 15:18
Here's the problem.
He has one of these two guns (http://www.auto-ordnance.com/PA-1AO_pkz.html), neither of which has a front dovetail, and both of which have the GI rear. Which means he has to get the sights AND the cut. Best I can figure, it's a $450 (tops) gun on the used market.
.
Trijicon has a staked front sight that requires no dovetailing of the slide and they also have a rear sight that fights the GI rear dovetail
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=13171&title=FRONT%20SIGHTS
Trijicon rear and front set
Brownells part #892-101-001 (wide tenon)
or
# 892-101-002
(narrow tenon)
But did the OP even mention he wanted new sights??
Yet another benefit/pitfall of the 1911.
As stated, the problem is, its an Auto Ordnance. They have never had a good reputation, even after Kahr took them over, and supposedly improved them.
There is one guy over at 1911 forums, who's re-built one into a good shooter. But, admits, he did the work, and got lucky. It would not be a good route to go.
As a range/plinking/ I wanna play Army gun, its probably OK, but that is not the slant of this forum, therefore most posts are going to be oriented toward setting it up as a duty/defensive piece. The problem is, as also been stated, by the time you do that, you could have just bought a Springfield Loaded, Kimber, Colt XSE(or '91), etc. and have a better platform to start with.
Many smiths won't work on an AO, or only do limited work. And after all that money has been spent, its still an AO with a cast slide and frame, of dubious quality.
There are decent sights out there that do not require milling of the slide, and looking back, for the rears sites at least, I could have saved some money.
Trijicon, MMC, Millet, Wilson, MGW, Kings, Novak(they have a dovetail fit) and the new 10-8 NM sight, all fit the standard dovetail. There are decent staked fronts as well.
If it were mine, and I wanted to keep it, or tinker with it, I would make some changes right off the bat. Bare in mind, I've got a 1911 or two, and pretty much know what I want...
With minimal money and effort...
Wilson BulletProof extractor
Sights, staked front and dovetail fit rear
One of the "drop in" fire control sets from C&S or Nowlin
Wilson drop in beavertail or Pachmayer rubber drop in.
Extended Thumb safety of your choice(mine are Browns tactical)
Tactical mag catch
Maybe one of the "drop in" bushings, that are a bit snugger.
Wilson or CMC mags
Have a smith give it a once over, check the parts for fit and function and bevel a magwell.
Then it would only be a training gun, so my real carry/duty 1911 doesn't get beat up and wore out.
Again, this is mostly an academic exercise, as it would be simpler and easier to get the Loaded(kinda why SA brought them out in the first place). If for some reason you can't or won't sell it, the above is the route I would take.
LB,
I'm right there with ya, JMB wasn't a grunt, he designed a weapon around the TTP's of 1905(at best) and not 2005. I really don't care what he thought was correct, or Cooper or Clint Smith for that matter.:rolleyes:
Things have changed, if the 1911 didn't change with them, it would have been dumped along time ago.
Bob
MarshallDodge
05-26-09, 11:37
So combat pistols can't have decent sights on them? The mil spec sights are abysmal, how could he not benefit from something he can use at night and get quicker on target with?
I really hope this doesn't turn into a "it's perfect as is because JMB designed it that way" argument.
I love a good set of Novak or 10-8 sights as much as anybody else but like rob said, I see no reason to dump the money into it for the sights when there are already good pistols on the market that will hold their value.
JMB designed a good gun, whether or not it is perfect by today's standards is debateable but its a fine combat pistol and has served many people in defense situations very well. That being said, the Auto Ordnance is not truly mil-spec, and is not my first choice for a sidearm.
theJanitor
05-26-09, 13:20
Any time i get a new 1911, i change out springs. springs and magazines are the two main culprits on making a 1911 work or not. so any new (or new to me) 1911 get new recoil, FP, hammer, and sear springs.
then they get evaluated for reliability and ease of use.
then they get modified. and in the end, EVERY 1911 that i've ever owned has had some type of modification to make it "ready". these things vary, depending on the starting point of the gun. but my "first improvements to a 1911" always are springs and magazines
i won't go into how much you should be spending in relation to the value of the piece, but springs are cheap and a necessity to me
decodeddiesel
05-26-09, 14:33
LB,
I'm right there with ya, JMB wasn't a grunt, he designed a weapon around the TTP's of 1905(at best) and not 2005. I really don't care what he thought was correct, or Cooper or Clint Smith for that matter.:rolleyes:
Things have changed, if the 1911 didn't change with them, it would have been dumped along time ago.
Bob
Well said, great post!
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-26-09, 22:36
Just shoot the gun. Unless you are a really unique duck, you will want a better 1911 down the road. So, practice with this gun until you decide if you want to stick with the platform. I feel that the 1911 is the most rewarding gun for various reasons, but obviously opinions differ. Down the road you might look into one of the newer Colt XSEs or a Springfield TRP.
JiMfraRED1911
05-27-09, 18:31
IMHO, the OP bought the wrong gun from the off to later dump money into.
Ok so i have a bone stock 1911 made by autoordnance, I'm looking to add some new parts to it to make it a better shooter and fuction faster than stock. Right now its in original GI look,feel, and built. Id' like to get a new grip safety with a bigger beavertail so i dont get any hammer slap. I was looking to do either STI or Wilson parts. I would like to do something with the trigger and hammer. Was looking at a Skeleton style hammer to be snappierand not to sure what i would want for a clean light but match style trigger. Any help from you 1911 Guru's would be great and any links to info on the above mentioned would help me out.
Thank you
Dan
Hello Dan,
Stephen A. Camp offer's a 1911 Book (The Shooter's Guide to the 1911 Pattern Pistol) that's very worth while to the New 1911 Shooter's as well as the Seasoned 1911 Shooter's.
Like all of Mr. Camp's Book's, he covers all the fine details and he leaves nothing out regarding The Magnificent M1911 in this book.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Products5.html
Ok so i will keep this one just a stock gun . I was looking last night at some new ones and will get a 1911 that will either be tricked out or on its way to getting uprgades. I will have to take a look into that book Bob, when i get back leaving for 2 weeks out of this anti gun state. Need to find some gun shops when im in OK.
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-28-09, 10:05
codman,
That sounds pretty wise. There is nothing wrong with having a beater gun. If it runs well (which it probably will) you will always have a back up.
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