View Full Version : The 'Official' SHOT Show Thread!
Post all details and pictures here :D
With setup being done today, I had expected to have certain things released by now. Even if not pictures, and least comments and rumors.
http://www.pbase.com/elegantcam/shot07 Pbase Shot Show Threads....NICE PICS
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=162932 Rob_S aka In Burrito's Shot Show Report....nice pics
http://www.gunblast.com/SHOT_Show_2007.htm Shot Show 07 Gun Blast DAY 1 DAY 2 & Day 3 are up
http://www.onpointfirearms.com/shotshow/2007/web/default/ On Point Firearms blog SHOT Day's 1 & 2
http://lundestudio.com/2007SHOTShow/ Ken Lunde from Sig Forum set up a web site for his pics
http://custom-glock.com/shot.html These guys usually cover SHOT and post the first three days
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/735108408 Sig Forum Parabellum Pics..SHOT SHOW DAY 1
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/314100608 SIG FORUM SHOT SHOW DAY 2
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/616107608 SIG FORUM SHOT SHOW DAY 3
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=310630 250 SHOT SHOW '07 PICS......by SMG Lee
http://www.pjs-steyraug.com/ USA STG 556 Steyr Aug -Made in the U.S.A. Clone
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=148301 Candle Power (Flashlight) Forum's SHOT SHOW Thread
http://www.usfirearms.com/ U.S. Firearms-SHOT Show products...Cowboy Action & 1911's Old Time Craftsmanship Beautiful workmanship
http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2007/01/shot_show_2007.html
Airborne Combat Engineer's SHOT SHOW '07 links and reviews
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/gallery?page=Shot%20Show%20Setup ESPN SHOT SHOW '07 GALLERYS
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=247384 Correia at SHOT show '07 Highground forum
Anything? Larue Square-S or whatever? G21SF? HK45? Have any of these things been "un-rumour-ed"? Anything that is totally out of left field?
I'm dyin' here, stuck in the land of snow! News, need news!!
I can't get any work done.
And everytime someone knocks on my office door, I scramble to close the screen as I fear it might be my boss. Someone please just give us something to feed the hunger until 5:00. Anything.
This is killin me not getting any news. I wish I could be there. HERE (http://nranews.com/nra.html) is a live feed from the NRA on scene. At least its something to watch.
I am heading to the show in the morning. I should have some stuff up tomorrow evening........
I am heading to the show in the morning. I should have some stuff up tomorrow evening........
Two things Hawkeye--SCAR and Glock:cool:
New can design from AAC:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m182/shark31/MG_32191.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m182/shark31/MG_32221.jpg
I couldn't find much else, but lets keep the stuff coming. Come on Stickman, spill your beans!
I'm going to buy a camera tonight just to take to the show tomorrow and through the weekend.:D
I believe that there is high-speed internet access in the hotel where I'm staying, and if so I'll try to get pics up in the mornings.
On the NRA live feed they just finished with GLOCK, only new thing from them is a G21SF (small frame) Bla.
Two things Hawkeye--SCAR and Glock:cool:
In the top 10 on my list. ;)
I'm going to buy a camera tonight just to take to the show tomorrow and through the weekend.:D
I believe that there is high-speed internet access in the hotel where I'm staying, and if so I'll try to get pics up in the mornings.
I dont know if you've been to one or not before, but just an FYI.... Be very discreet about taking your camera in, and ask vendors before taking a pic of anything. Technically only those with media credentials are supposed to have any camera's/video equipment, but they dont really enforce it. If you were just snapping pics everywhere though, that may draw some attention. Again, just an FYI.
I dont know if you've been to one or not before, but just an FYI.... Be very discreet about taking your camera in, and ask vendors before taking a pic of anything. Technically only those with media credentials are supposed to have any camera's/video equipment, but they dont really enforce it. If you were just snapping pics everywhere though, that may draw some attention. Again, just an FYI.
That has been my experience in the past as well. I try to limit my picture taking to things that I want to see and/or remember. I don't run around snapping pictures of everything I see.
My buddy just called me to tell me about I think it's AAC's new 338 Lapua can.. $3400, supposed to be quieter than a JET 308 can, and lighter.. Hmmm.
On the NRA live feed they just finished with GLOCK, only new thing from them is a G21SF (small frame) Bla.
I hate you Glock!!!! :mad:
I should probably reserve my judgment as I haven't actually seen a confirmed picture of the 21SF, but those buttheads just won't listen.
And yet another year goes by without a full size single stack Glock .45:confused:
Yep, I was hoping for a single stack or narrower 45 with the size of the G35 to replace my duty G35....Oh well, maybe this year I ll buy the commandersized lightweight Operator from Springfield for oher purposes.
Did anybody Make it buy Magpul's display? What is this MASADA I'm hearing about?
Well I am here and the coolest thing I have seen to date is the new Magpul, gas piston AR!!!! Think of the SCAR L, but even lighter! Amazing to say the least. The weapon should retail for around $1,400. If this weapon is reliable, they will blow the gas piston market out of the water. The LW's of the world might as well quit IMHO.
The Magpul mag is nice as well and seems very strong. I tried to crush it and saw someone jumping on it with no problems.
LT did not show up with the Mono system (bummer). VLTOR's new flip up sight is kick ass to say the least. The POF with the VLTOR VIS is very nice as well and their .308 is going to sell I think.
The new and improved Specter Dr was out and they seemed to make some good improvements in it. the eye relief and FOV still seem to be a problem IMHO.
The HK 45 is nice and can see me getting one. The Glock 21SF is just OK to me and was more excited about the the S&W M&P than anything.
The Colt M5 is very nice and they have a couple variations that will be cool I think.
Trijicon is keeping tight lipped about their TR21 with a BDC. They hinted that they might show it off at shot, but are still hiding it from public view. They did reliease a new small reflex optic (like the JPoint) with an 8MOA dot. It is fairly priced and should sell well.
Aimpoint came out with two new optics. The M4 and a small tubed bast dot (little bette than a Dr Optic). The M4's claim to fame is that it uses AA batts and has better run time than the current M3! The down side is that you have to use their propriatary mount (which is included). In the future, I am sure ccmpanies like LT will make a mount for it. I believe that price for the M4 will be approaching the $800 range.
SureFire showed off their new LED's that utilze the newest LED technology from a company called CREE. To give you an idea on how bright these are, a L1 puts out 30 Lumens. The new L1 with the CREE LED, puts out 65 Lumens for over an HOUR! That's right, one CR123A is putting out 65 Lumen for over an hour (amazing). They will also be putting the CREE LED's in their L5, U2 and K2. This will geatly increase their Lumens output.
The EOTech 557 is nice with the BDC and the side controls. The two EOTech Magnifiers are nice and have a wide FOVV(much better than th Aimpoint version). The magnifiers come with on of two mounts. A fixed mount or the Samson flip mount. I am not crazy about either, and am hoping that LT makes something for it in the future.
CProducts showed off their 32rd 9mm mag and it is fantastic to say the least. They will own the 9mm mag marktet with this.
That is all for now and will report some more tomorrow!
C4
Will the Magpul work on a normal AR lower?
Grant,
Any ideas on pricing for the EoTech magnifiers?
I can't believe Surefire is actually up to speed on CREE XR-E LEDs! Great news.
I'm jonesin' for a TR21 with a "better" reticle. I'm not a triangle fan.
-55
ETA: Thank God Glock didn't go with that crossbolt safety.
Zak, I am pretty sure it did. Will go back tomorrow and double check. It is the cat's ass!
55, the EOTech magnifiers come with a mount, so you have to keep that in mind when looking at the prices. I have not seen the MAP price list yet for 2007 (as EOTech raised their prices 5%), but would think that one could get into a 3X with the Samson flip mount for around the $450-$480 range.
C4
Almost forgot, LMT is coming out with their own Gas Piston system for the MRP! You will be able to buy the MPR with the gas system (installed at the factory) and buy a kit if you already have an MRP!
C4
olds442tyguy
01-11-07, 17:47
A Magpul gas piston AR! Hell yeah Magpul. :eek:
Grant, you compared it to the SCAR L, so am I correct in assuming it is monolithic? Pretty soon they're going to have all bases covered. Stocks, grips, uppers, lowers, etc.
Also, is $1400 for the upper alone I take it?
I have alot more questions reguarding the Magpul booth alone, but I'll contain myself until pics arrive. :cool:
Thanks for keeping us outsiders updated Grant. :D
Magpul Gas-Piston???
Oh sweet mama :D
grant if you make eotechs booth again tell dennis i have his venison waiting fo him :D and i wish i could be there
I just put my wife on notice that we will not be taking any vacations this year. :)
In other news, here is a picture of the Masada:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/M4Fanatic/masadaoh4.jpg?t=1168561864
The HK 45 is nice and can see me getting one.
The EOTech 557 is nice with the BDC and the side controls.
C4
Grant, any idea of what the projected prices and release dates will be?
olds442tyguy
01-11-07, 18:37
I just put my wife on notice that we will not be taking any vacations this year. :)
In other news, I'm not sure if we're supposed to link to arfcom, but there is a picture of the Masada here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=310161&page=3
[Please forgive me if I violated some rule]
For some reason, my computer won't access ArfCom.
Please, oh please can someone post the pics here? :D
For some reason, my computer won't access ArfCom.
Please, oh please can someone post the pics here? :D
Ask and ye shall receive. Refresh Brother!
For some reason, my computer won't access ArfCom.
Please, oh please can someone post the pics here? :D
Hit refresh and look up! :D
I just put my wife on notice that we will not be taking any vacations this year. :)
In other news, here is a picture of the Masada:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/M4Fanatic/masadaoh4.jpg?t=1168561864
Just when I thought I had my gun situation all figured out.
olds442tyguy
01-11-07, 18:43
Wow!!!!
Thanks for posting it, and I honestly can not believe the step Magpul just took.
It looks all proprietary, but for $1400 with Magpul quality, I may have to set the AR aside to try one of these out.
Again, WOW!
Thanks for the report Grant. I've been waiting all day for some kind of info.
One more thing, Does LaRue have a complete upper on display? Not a mono, just a Stealth with LaRue barrel, rail, etc.
Masada.....
Oh Vey!
"Masada shall never fall again"
thanks for the report Grant...gotta love those Crees...be sure to bring some home....:)
Kel-Tec .308 bullpup...
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=2505;action=display;num=1168555223[/URL]
Alpha Sierra
01-11-07, 18:58
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/M4Fanatic/masadaoh4.jpg?t=1168561864
Oh My!!!! I think I need to smoke a cigarette..........:eek:
Is it safe to say that this will lay waste to both the SIG 556 and the Robinson XCR?
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/M4Fanatic/masadaoh4.jpg?t=1168561864
Oh My!!!! I think I need to smoke a cigarette..........:eek:
Is it safe to say that this will lay waste to both the SIG 556 and the Robinson XCR?
My thoughts exactly, I for sure will be picking up one. :D
olds442tyguy
01-11-07, 19:03
Kel-Tec .308 bullpup...
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=2505;action=display;num=1168555223
I'm not a big Kel Tec fan, but I think that's a step in the right direction for them. I would definately prefer that over their 5.56 rifle.
So what are the details on the MASADA? Is it constructed of aluminum or polymer?
Wow!!!!
Thanks for posting it, and I honestly can not believe the step Magpul just took.
It looks all proprietary, but for $1400 with Magpul quality, I may have to set the AR aside to try one of these out.
Again, WOW!
MAGPUL....Just Found The Cure For ....Black Rifle Disease....
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha
olds442tyguy
01-11-07, 19:16
Sig Forum has some good pictures of the new 556 pistol. (552 upper on a 556 lower.)
The 220 Carry Elite looks killer. I might have to pick one up.
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/735108408
MAGPUL....Just Found The Cure For ....Black Rifle Disease....
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha
It's offering all of the features people want, it will probably be uber reliable, and it's got a good price. I'd say there's a good possibility Magpul won't be selling as many stocks now (and it's their own fault). :D
I just put my wife on notice that we will not be taking any vacations this year. :)
In other news, here is a picture of the Masada:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/M4Fanatic/masadaoh4.jpg?t=1168561864
WOW....That right there is hot :D When can I get one?
Any other pictures of some new goodies?
Hey Grant
Put me on your list for (2) Ea Masada
BTW (1) Nice Dog for sale...cheap
The Masada is not AR based at all, although it uses a small amount of compatible parts.
I don't know exactly how much I'm allowed to say here, but suffice it to say that I've known about this project for a few months.
With setup being done today, I had expected to have certain things released by now. Even if not pictures, and least comments and rumors.
Well Stick I have new found respect for you.....having to keep "Masada" under your
hat had to just about kill ya....:)
Worth the wait....thats for sure....a shocker...whoa!
Any SHOT info yet on when we'll see a civvie SCAR?
Or if/when HK will release a civvie HK416 (at least the upper)?
Hardgear, LLC
01-11-07, 19:38
Grant,
Thanks for the update....keeping them coming.
Harlan
olds442tyguy
01-11-07, 19:39
Or if/when HK will release a civvie HK416 (at least the upper)?
A guy over on HK Pro said an HK rep at the show mocked his friend when he asked about a civilian 416. :confused:
A guy over on HK Pro said an HK rep at the show mocked his friend when he asked about a civilian 416. :confused:
I'm fascinated by this.
If you were a HK sales rep, or in Sales Management at HK, wouldn't you probably have to anticipate that someone at the SHOT Show of all places is probably going to ask you about a civvie version of the 416?
And if so, do you think that said sales management could formulate some sort of answer ahead of time to give to folks that doesn't include not taking them seriously and making stupid remarks?
It couldn't have been the first time someone asked, right?
K
olds442tyguy
01-11-07, 19:51
I'm fascinated by this.
If you were a HK sales rep, or in Sales Management at HK, wouldn't you probably have to anticipate that someone at the SHOT Show of all places is probably going to ask you about a civvie version of the 416?
And if so, do you think that said sales management could formulate some sort of answer ahead of time to give to folks that doesn't include not taking them seriously and making stupid remarks?
It couldn't have been the first time someone asked, right?
K
To be honest, I don't even know if it's true. I wouldn't be surprised either way though.
uh...what caliber? I don't want another 5.56/.223. Make it in something bigger and better and I'm on the bandwagon. Looks nice tho....
I guess I'll be the voice of dissent. The Magpul gun does nothing for me. It is GREAT to have more choices, however. Then again, I'm not a 1911 fan either. So I may not be wired right.
It's great that we have so many companies providing us new and improved products. If Colt and H&K would get on the civilian sales bandwagon the world would be a better place.
Thanks for the update Grant.
Almost forgot, LMT is coming out with their own Gas Piston system for the MRP!
C4
This is what I've been waiting for.........:D
SureFire showed off their new LED's that utilze the newest LED technology from a company called CREE. To give you an idea on how bright these are, a L1 puts out 30 Lumens. The new L1 with the CREE LED, puts out 65 Lumens for over an HOUR! That's right, one CR123A is putting out 65 Lumen for over an hour (amazing). They will also be putting the CREE LED's in their L5, U2 and K2. This will geatly increase their Lumens output.
How did they manage to screw that up so bad when a small company like Fenix is getting 135 Lumens for an hour, 72 Lumens for almost 3 hours, and 12 lumens for 21 hours, plus strobe and a signal mode? And all out of a much smaller package.
http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9046084761/m/2281095882
http://www.fenixlight.com/
The Masada is not AR based at all, although it uses a small amount of compatible parts.
I don't know exactly how much I'm allowed to say here, but suffice it to say that I've known about this project for a few months.
Say as much as you're allowed or as much as you can based on your first hand knowledge. We're all ears :D
Alpha Sierra
01-11-07, 20:29
A guy over on HK Pro said an HK rep at the show mocked his friend when he asked about a civilian 416. :confused:
Honestly, combine HK's attitude problem with the new piston rifles from POF, Magpul, and LMT, and I have to conclude: why GAF about HK?
Robb Jensen
01-11-07, 20:32
I'm thinking of picking up an ARES G-35 gas piston conversion kit for my LMT 10.3" SBR, they're $399
:eek:
Oh my....I think I may be breaking the speed limit tomorrow.
Alpha Sierra
01-11-07, 20:43
Is it me, or does the Masada have a slight air of G36/XM8 styling to it? :D
Regardless,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/43/Borat2.jpg
I like!!!
New can design from AAC:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m182/shark31/MG_32191.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m182/shark31/MG_32221.jpg
I couldn't find much else, but lets keep the stuff coming. Come on Stickman, spill your beans!
That goes extremely well with the statement "there's nothing wrong with our current spring latch and the hills and valley issue doesn't exist." :p
RAM Engineer
01-11-07, 20:52
Almost forgot, LMT is coming out with their own Gas Piston system for the MRP! You will be able to buy the MPR with the gas system (installed at the factory) and buy a kit if you already have an MRP!
C4
I'd like to see/read more about this LMT piston please!
My 2007 new stuff wish list:
FN SCAR-L
FN SCAR-H
FN FNP45
S&W M&P45
HK45 Compact LEM
Magpul Masada
LMT MRP Piston Upper
LMT Crane Stocks in FDE
Colt 1020 or whatever they're calling it
Aimpoint M4
New-style Trijicon TR21
I think I need to start working some more OT!:eek:
How did they manage to screw that up so bad when a small company like Fenix is getting 135 Lumens for an hour, 72 Lumens for almost 3 hours, and 12 lumens for 21 hours, plus strobe and a signal mode? And all out of a much smaller package.
I jumped off the Fenix band wagon early on...so I dont have any experience with their CR versions...
As far as their advertised data...has this been independently verified yet?
tia
Inside the Masada:
www.magpul.com/Masada_inside.pdf
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7099/untitledgx6.jpg
Nathan_Bell
01-11-07, 21:20
Inside the Masada:
www.magpul.com/Masada_inside.pdf
OOH, multicaliber option shown there on the PDF. Must make more money.
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7099/untitledgx6.jpg 'Masada' from the PDF
olds442tyguy
01-11-07, 21:23
Inside the Masada:
www.magpul.com/Masada_inside.pdf
Thank you very much.
For more pics (HK45's, P30's, 417's. SCAR's, 556 SWAT's, etc.), I found this guy's page.
http://www.onpointfirearms.com/shotshow/2007/view/Flash.view/cover.php?name=Shot_Show_2007_Photos_Day_1
Glad to see Taurus is busy making purple gripped gold plated 1911 models rather than the other standard 1911's that were announced two years ago. :rolleyes:
Gun Blast just got their page up too. http://gunblast.com/SHOT_2007_1.htm
ETA: After looking at that PDF, I think Magpul has taken the SCAR concept (SOCOM, not FN) a step further than anyone else. I am highly impressed, and I think that's a heck of a way to step into the firearm manufacturing business. I think that rifle is going to put the hurt on alot of big players.
Nathan_Bell
01-11-07, 21:37
Thank you very much.
For more pics (HK45's, P30's, 417's. SCAR's, 556 SWAT's, etc.), I found this guy's page.
http://www.onpointfirearms.com/shotshow/2007/view/Flash.view/cover.php?name=Shot_Show_2007_Photos_Day_1
Glad to see Taurus is busy making purple gripped gold plated 1911 models rather than the other standard 1911's that were announced two years ago. :rolleyes:
ETA: After looking at that PDF, I think Magpul has taken the SCAR concept (SOCOM, not FN) a step further than anyone else. I am highly impressed, and I think that's a heck of a way to step into the firearm manufacturing business. I think that rifle is going to put the hurt on alot of big players.
I hope so, it would be nice to get some real developmental competition in the firearms industry.
I'm fascinated by this.
If you were a HK sales rep, or in Sales Management at HK, wouldn't you probably have to anticipate that someone at the SHOT Show of all places is probably going to ask you about a civvie version of the 416?
And if so, do you think that said sales management could formulate some sort of answer ahead of time to give to folks that doesn't include not taking them seriously and making stupid remarks?
It couldn't have been the first time someone asked, right?
K
Ze Germans giveth not a shit about the US .civ sector. Sad but true.
RE: MASADA.
Can I assume that this wasn't ready for the SCAR trials? Because, well...it looks like a can of whoopass.
Magpul is to me what shoes are to a woman. I'm in for a Masada.....and mags.....and that and .......:D
olds442tyguy
01-11-07, 22:06
Because, well...it looks like a can of whoopass.
I couldn't have said it better myself. :D I think Magpul just single handedly turned the tactical rifle market upside down.
As for the 416, another HK Pro member who was actually at SHOT posted that the rep he talked to said they're gearing up for both 416 and 417 civilian production. :cool:
I think I'd rather have a MASADA and a SCAR-H though.
417 is something I'd look at for sure.
Any pics of the Eotech magnifiers?
Alpha Sierra
01-11-07, 22:20
Magpul needs to offer a 16" carbine, or pin the FH on the 14.5 optionally. Some of us do not want to deal with the SBR thing.
I cannot believe that Magpul would actually quote Kevin McClung in their ad.....:rolleyes: . The gun looks good, but I have to wonder why they would quote a dork without a single second of issue time anywhere with the AR/M16 system.
Is CProducts there? Any pics of final teflon mags and the 20 round SS mags?
As bad arse as the Masada looks, why does everybody say they are getting one, when they said that they only test fired it 5 days before SHOT? Its not even close to a proven system?
Just wandering......
That rifle looks like it may be a winner, but I just don't understand why Magpul would bad-mouth the very rifle that has made them such a successful company.:confused:
If the Masada proves to be reliable and accurate I might be in for one (probably), even though the marketing campaign doesn't thrill me.
I look forward to the day when all these uber-piston rifles and uppers are available and we can do a real long-term hard-use shootout to see how they all perform (alongside the platforms we know and "love" today).
olds442tyguy
01-11-07, 22:46
As bad arse as the Masada looks, why does everybody say they are getting one, when they said that they only test fired it 5 days before SHOT? Its not even close to a proven system?
Just wandering......
I think most people are assuming it will be typical Magpul quality. I've never thought them to be a company that would cut corners or release a product that wasn't as good as possible.
For all we know, an AWB could guarantee us never even having a chance to find out. :confused:
I still don't know how we went from not quite having the next stock out to having a complete firearm out.
**** buying the Masad. I want to buy stock in the company itself.
Magpul needs to offer a 16" carbine, or pin the FH on the 14.5 optionally. Some of us do not want to deal with the SBR thing.
Doesnt 'Masada' have quick change option and uses stock AR15 barrels?
Good to see some innovative competition going on. One hypothetical on the Masada though that a bud brought up, where's the dust cover?
Mmmm... Carne masada....
It's like the car shows or a ruway show in Paris. Or a football game where people paint themselves and wave giant foam fingers in the air. Another example? Playstation 3s. It'fun.Wether you enjoy shooting ,the engineering/mechanics of the thing or it looks like man art on your wall,it's fun. As for the Masada it's not a $3800.00 without scope, hands off John Q public military only, firearm. It seems to what has been mentioned affordable. It has the features already in it that usualy costs so much to add to ARs. Modular,multicaliber, accepts AR barrels,ambidextrious everything. Whats not to get excited about? As for availability. Everyone knows they won't be getting one this month. Have fun and enjoy now what many plot to take from you. Mike:D
I cannot believe that Magpul would actually quote Kevin McClung in their ad.....:rolleyes: . The gun looks good, but I have to wonder why they would quote a dork without a single second of issue time anywhere with the AR/M16 system.
big +1...Mad Dog is sooooo known for his AR15 expertise...:confused:
I cannot believe that Magpul would actually quote Kevin McClung in their ad.....:rolleyes: . The gun looks good, but I have to wonder why they would quote a dork without a single second of issue time anywhere with the AR/M16 system.
Jeah, that was interesting.
417 is something I'd look at for sure.
I second that. The Masada looks interesting but I personally would have to wait for reviews and first hand experience before dropping that kind of money on an unproven weapons system. I don't doubt that they have capable engineers and weapon system guys but I would feel a lot more comfortable with the LMT gas piston system, HK, or anyone who has an extensive history of making weapons and not just accessories. I don't have anything against Magpul but I would say the same thing if Tango Down or Harris started making pistols.
http://www.onpointfirearms.com/shotshow/2007/view/Flash.view/cover.php?name=Shot_Show_2007_Photos_Day_1
HK 417D Pics in there.
Please god, pull your head out of your ass HKD.
The masada looks promising but can the get it finalized, reliable, reasonably priced and in production before new legislation kills it?
I guess now we know the real reason Magpul came out with their own mags. They needed something to match their new rifle!:D
I think the design of the rifle has potential. I can't wait to actually hold one later today, although I imagine I'll be standing in line to do so. I don't know that I'll ever buy one, but if it bears out to be better than what I have now, I'll take 4.
I guess I'm the opposite of some people that automatically think "different is better". My guns are more like an incumbant senator, you really have to work and prove that you're significantly better enough to oust them.
Submariner
01-12-07, 06:07
Lesson of the Masada...
It is better to die than to live as slaves.
In any case this Masada came about after we gave up working on a polymer lower and upper sometime ago.
About 3 months ago we just decided to start with a clean sheet of paper and the current Masada is the result.
Upper is 7000 series ALU with internal steel (bearing surface) rails.
We sucessfully test fired the rifle just five days ago.
here is a PDF of the inside features...
www.magpul.com/Masada_inside.pdf
This thread was even linked.:D
Jay Cunningham
01-12-07, 06:17
This is a classic example of how left-wing/liberal politicians (who always claim to have our Soldiers and Marines best interests at heart) truly don't give two shits about our military or American industry or "outsourcing." Because if they did, they'd realize that an "assault weapons ban" causes American small-arms R&D to stagnate and atrophy.
In only a couple of years since the AWB sunset we have offerings like the XCR, SCAR, Masada, various gas piston and mono AR's and all the accessories that go with them.
The American civilian small-arms market is a wonderful thing and the training offered by Pat, Larry and others is a wonderful thing which will eventually directly benefit our shooters on the front lines.
Alpha Sierra
01-12-07, 08:38
Doesnt 'Masada' have quick change option and uses stock AR15 barrels?
You're right. It was late last night and I didn't connect the dots......:D
John_Wayne777
01-12-07, 09:56
Just waiting on Hawkeye's pics.....
The Massada looks very interesting...But I have to wonder about its long term reliability.
People bag on the traditional AR design all the time, but it is actually a combat proven system with 40 years of development behind it, and it works darn good so long as you don't do anything silly with it.
If the Massada or the Sig556 or the HK416 really can offer more than the traditional AR, I will be all over it like a horny teenager on prom night....I just want to be sure they are new and truly improved...not just new.
I jumped off the Fenix band wagon early on...so I dont have any experience with their CR versions...
As far as their advertised data...has this been independently verified yet?
tia
Good question, I can't believe I was just taking their word for it.
So I found a testing thread at candlepower forums HERE (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=144407) and it looks like their numbers are a bit optomistic, but the real numbers are still pretty damn good.
~110 lumens on high for >30 minutes
~60 lumens on med. for >140 minutes
~15 lumens on low for >10 hours
The Masada definitely looks intresting but I need to see more info and testing on it before I'd want to get one.
I need to see some pics of the EOTech 557 and more pics of the new magnifiers!
The Masada definitely looks intresting but I need to see more info and testing on it before I'd want to get one.
I'm looking forward to some testing... torture testing that is! If the rifle proves to be sound, I'm all over it. With it just being test fired something like 5 days ago, production is probably a long way out. IMO, 18 months doesn't sound too unrealistic.
OK, the Masada looks great. What I want to know is whether or not the UBR is ready. Any reports on this end?
Is CProducts there? Any pics of final teflon mags and the 20 round SS mags?
Good question, I can't believe I was just taking their word for it.
So I found a testing thread at candlepower forums HERE (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=144407) and it looks like their numbers are a bit optomistic, but the real numbers are still pretty damn good.
~110 lumens on high for >30 minutes
~60 lumens on med. for >140 minutes
~15 lumens on low for >10 hours
Plus you have to figure that Surefire tends to be on the conservative side of numbers they publish.
I'm interested in the new pistol light Blackhawk/Night-Ops is supposed to be showing. Any word?
http://www.xd-hs2000.com/shotshow2007/day2/ssd2p25.jpg
U.S. made Steyr Aug...anybody at SHOT seen it?....does it have a Swarovski 1.5X scope with a circle reticle? Take AR mags?
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/ Anybody got the lowdown on this
outfit?
tia
olds442tyguy
01-12-07, 14:31
http://www.xd-hs2000.com/shotshow2007/day2/ssd2p25.jpg
U.S. made Steyr Aug...anybody at SHOT seen it?....does it have a Swarovski 1.5X scope with a circle reticle? Take AR mags?
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/ Anybody got the lowdown on this
outfit?
tia
There was a mass of information on TOS, but site staff locked it. Both of the new AUG makers post/posted there, and they both appeared to have a pretty good idea about what they were doing.
I wish they made an A3 version.
I don't want to side track this thread away from the new Magpul but after seeing the new G21SF I'm bummed out :(
I'll still go and look at (and fondle) on in person before I make my final decision but I think the M&P45 is going to be my next purchase. Sorry, I just had to vent.
Cool, a US made AUG!
I don't know why, but I want one. Seriously, it's ugly and I don't even know if it's reliable but I just have to have one. :confused:
Hmmm, maybe I want it just as a novelty...
I don't want to side track this thread away from the new Magpul but after seeing the new G21SF I'm bummed out :(
I'll still go and look at (and fondle) on in person before I make my final decision but I think the M&P45 is going to be my next purchase. Sorry, I just had to vent.
I know what ya mean...sounds like all Gaston did was chop off bottom half an inch
or so...whoopty do...
That Taurus 'looks' good though...but the Smitty is probably the answer....to the question..eh?
David Thomas
01-12-07, 15:45
I don't want to side track this thread away from the new Magpul but after seeing the new G21SF I'm bummed out :(
I'll still go and look at (and fondle) on in person before I make my final decision but I think the M&P45 is going to be my next purchase. Sorry, I just had to vent.
Why are you bummed out about the G21sf? I have not seen a reliable photograph of one yet. What is disappointing about the pistol? Please elaborate a little.
Nathan_Bell
01-12-07, 15:49
Glock seems to be resting on its laurels. There has been buzz about the HK45 and the M&P in 45 since last SHOT show. I would have thought that they would have come up with something by now. I love my G21's but I know that many folks find them too chunky and will likely buy the two competing designs in droves, which makes me just shake my head at Glock's lack-o-new-stuff-itis.
Why are you bummed out about the G21sf? I have not seen a reliable photograph of one yet. What is disappointing about the pistol? Please elaborate a little.
It's funny you should ask...
I just found a picture of the new Glock Annual cover and there is the new G21SF right on the cover. You know what? Now that I found a decent picture I like it a lot more! Glock reliability, small grip (fore & aft) and cheap Glock mags in a 45ACP package actually have me chomping at the bit :D
http://members.cox.net/mwinder3/images/G21SF.jpg
As bad arse as the Masada looks, why does everybody say they are getting one, when they said that they only test fired it 5 days before SHOT? Its not even close to a proven system?
Just wandering......
Chalk it up to SHOT Show "Irrational Exuberance" :)
I said I'd take two and emailed Magpul right off....
I don't know what the hell came over me....lol
On to the H&K and MRP piston uppers...
Voodoochild
01-12-07, 16:02
Any word on any new Gemtech cans? And M4arc how did you get a copy of the new Glock Annual I didn't get a copy I got one with my GSSF membership but never saw a subscription card.
Any word on any new Gemtech cans? And M4arc how did you get a copy of the new Glock Annual I didn't get a copy I got one with my GSSF membership but never saw a subscription card.
Someone in Orlando emailed that picture to me. I don't have a copy in my hands yet but they are also bringing me one back :D
However, you can call Glock and ask for one. They will ship one out to you free of charge!
Inside the Masada:
www.magpul.com/Masada_inside.pdf
[IMG]http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7099/untitledgx6.jpg[/IMG
"HARDENED INTERNAL BEARING RAILS"
"POLYMER LOWER"
"PISTON/GAS SYSTEM"
Sounds like a development of the AR180B operating system. It even looks like it has the forward pivot. If it was done right it could be a very good gun at a reasonable price. I don't think I would spring till lots of testing/development was done.
Here is a link to some more pics. Includes close ups of the G21SF and another shot of the Masada....
http://lundestudio.com/2007SHOTShow/
Here is a link to some more pics. Includes close ups of the G21SF and another shot of the Masada....
http://lundestudio.com/2007SHOTShow/
Funny, the pictures of the G21SF posted there and the one on the new Glock Annual have different rails :confused:
Thanks for the report Grant. I've been waiting all day for some kind of info.
One more thing, Does LaRue have a complete upper on display? Not a mono, just a Stealth with LaRue barrel, rail, etc.
Yes. The come with their A3 upper receiver (no M4 cut) and barrel that has standard rifle extension (just fyi). No details on the BCG used or where they get them.
C4
Funny, the pictures of the G21SF posted there and the one on the new Glock Annual have different rails :confused:
I noticed that too. All of the early reports I've seen mentioned it came with the traditional Glock style rail, and some of the other pictures confirm that. Then there is this. Do you think they are trying to gauge customer reaction? See which one would do better in the marketplace?
How did they manage to screw that up so bad when a small company like Fenix is getting 135 Lumens for an hour, 72 Lumens for almost 3 hours, and 12 lumens for 21 hours, plus strobe and a signal mode? And all out of a much smaller package.
http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9046084761/m/2281095882
http://www.fenixlight.com/
Well to be honest I don't know. I do know that SF iS well known for underestiimating their Lumens output and a lot of companies like inflate their Lumens output.
C4
Thanks for the report Grant...
Go have some supper...take a little rest...and get back in there :)
Is CProducts there? Any pics of final teflon mags and the 20 round SS mags?
They are here and the 20rd Teflon mags look good, but not as good as the 9mm model!
C4
As bad arse as the Masada looks, why does everybody say they are getting one, when they said that they only test fired it 5 days before SHOT? Its not even close to a proven system?
Just wandering......
That is an easy one. Magpul won't let anything go out the door until it has bee fully tested by a goo number of people. So by the time it makes it to our hands, it will be GTG.
Don't expect to see this weapon for 12-14 months!
C4
That is an easy one. Magpul won't let anything go out the door until it has bee fully tested by a goo number of people. So by the time it makes it to our hands, it will be GTG.
Don't expect to see this weapon for 12-14 months!
C4
Still will be before the SCAR...
That is an easy one. Magpul won't let anything go out the door until it has bee fully tested by a goo number of people. So by the time it makes it to our hands, it will be GTG.
Don't expect to see this weapon for 12-14 months!
C4
That would be an optimistic assumption.
This will be interesting to see the comparisons between Robinson Armament's practices and now Magpul's. Magpul's going out on a limb on this one. I wish them success.
http://www.xd-hs2000.com/shotshow2007/day2/ssd2p25.jpg
U.S. made Steyr Aug...anybody at SHOT seen it?....does it have a Swarovski 1.5X scope with a circle reticle? Take AR mags?
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/ Anybody got the lowdown on this
outfit?
tia
Held it, like it! Very high quality and they seem to know what they are doing. I look forward to these coming out.
C4
I know what ya mean...sounds like all Gaston did was chop off bottom half an inch
or so...whoopty do...
That Taurus 'looks' good though...but the Smitty is probably the answer....to the question..eh?
Played with the Taurus today. Nice pistol and think it will do well. The trigger felt VERY light and would be surprised if it made it to the market that way.
IMHO, the S&W M&P .45 with the Crimson Trace back strap built in is the CAT's ASS!
C4
I guess I'm not excited about another .45 Glock, considering their 'reputation' for breaking.
RAM Engineer
01-12-07, 17:13
There has been buzz about the HK45 and the M&P in 45 since last SHOT show. I would have thought that they would have come up with something by now. I love my G21's but I know that many folks find them too chunky and will likely buy the two competing designs in droves, which makes me just shake my head at Glock's lack-o-new-stuff-itis.
What about the new FN FNP-45? I guess the FNP family is always the bridesmaid, never the bride;)
I'm looking forward to trying all four of these new guns, but I don't see myself keeping more than two. One Hammer fired platform and one striker fired platform. Ultimately, testing will bear out which ones will be the keepers.
Until then, this is my "Girl-Association Scorecard":
Glock is unwilling to admit they are not perfect just the way they are, and listen to reasonable suggestions for improvement (like so many of my exgirlfriends).
HK (as far as civilians go) is like my crazed painter ex who creates great works of art and then burns them because the public is a mass of philistines who do not deserve beauty.
FN is like that girl next door I SHOULD have asked out in high school, but I didn't notice her, because I was infatuated with the painter chick (HK).
S&W is like my mom. Putting locks & safeties on everything to make sure I don't hurt myself.
I guess I'm not excited about another .45 Glock, considering their 'reputation' for breaking.
Heck I am. I am ready to get one of the 21SF's. I have 3 Glock .45's one with 20-25K through it without a single problem and another with over 10k through it. I run my guns hard as hell but Pm them and replace the simple parts that keep them running before they break.
I think most of the bad hype on any of the forums are by folks who have never kept one that long or put that many rounds through one to see if they will hold up. Everyone has their favorites and always slant their opinions toward their preferences. Everyone loves the 1911's but I have taught plenty of classes and been through 10 times as many as a student and have seen those guns constantly have feeding problems. Every gun has its differences and difficulties GLock or Colt!
Too many folks take other persons opinions on these types of things and don't realize no matter who they are they are just as one sided as the rest of everybody else. I say you need to try it yourself instead of taking someone elses bad judgement and take their side.
I don't dog the 1911 lovers hell if it works for them thats fine. I don't carry a 1911 but have shot plenty and they don't really thrill my gorilla tlike the Glock's do!
What about the new FN FNP-45? I guess the FNP family is always the bridesmaid, never the bride;)
I'm looking forward to trying all four of these new guns, but I don't see myself keeping more than two. One Hammer fired platform and one striker fired platform. Ultimately, testing will bear out which ones will be the keepers.
Until then, this is my "Girl-Association Scorecard":
Glock is unwilling to admit they are not perfect just the way they are, and listen to reasonable suggestions for improvement (like so many of my exgirlfriends).
HK (as far as civilians go) is like my crazed painter ex who creates great works of art and then burns them because the public is a mass of philistines who do not deserve beauty.
FN is like that girl next door I SHOULD have asked out in high school, but I didn't notice her, because I was infatuated with the painter chick (HK).
S&W is like my mom. Putting locks & safeties on everything to make sure I don't hurt myself.
I thought you got the right on all counts :D :o
I thought you got the right on all counts :D :o
Kind a freaky accurate too :eek:
John Fettes
01-12-07, 17:51
.... the traditional Glock style rail, and some of the other pictures confirm that. Then there is this ...
..with a different rail.
Maybe they needed to commit to a picture for the magazine cover x # weeks ago, before they made a final decision on the rail.
What about Leupy's new Prismatic? Any specs released? Battery type and life? Anyone actually look through one?
..with a different rail.
Maybe they needed to commit to a picture for the magazine cover x # weeks ago, before they made a final decision on the rail.
Maybe. Either way it will probably come down to the new G21SF or M&P45 for me.
Whoa! What's with the AUG having a forward assist? I thought the charging handle had a built in assist feature...I kinda like the AR15 style assist on there. Hate black rifles tho...
Held it, like it! Very high quality and they seem to know what they are doing. I look forward to these coming out.
C4
IF it's the one being made by Pete/PJ's with assistance from Microtech, it will not accept AUG mags (although AUG's can accept PJ mags). It will use proprietary mags. :confused:
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/630601935/m/435109408/p/3
Scroll down the thread for some nice "Masada" pics
John Fettes
01-12-07, 18:49
... it will probably come down to the new G21SF or M&P45 for me.
I looked at an M&P9 today and look forward to seeing the .45ACP in both full size & compact. I have several Glocks now and use the 26 & 19 the most.
[QUOTE=JS&W is like my mom. Putting locks & safeties on everything to make sure I don't hurt myself.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you don't know your mom as well as you think you do....she might have a double life....
I think the M&Ps come in a "wild mom" version as well as a 'regular mom' model.....no locks...for the wild ones...:)
I spent quite a bit of time with Rich and the Magpul guys and the Masada. Short if it having some kind of realibility issues, I will own one as soon as it is available. They put a LOT of though and design into this, with some really outstanding features. The new Pmags are just awesome. In my opinion, they are being way to modest about them. These are NOT your old Orlites or Thermolds.
Saw a few other interesting things. I should have more pics and info tomorrow, but here is a teaser for now.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/SHOT07/Masada1.jpg
Yes. The come with their A3 upper receiver (no M4 cut) and barrel that has standard rifle extension (just fyi). No details on the BCG used or where they get them.
C4
Thanks again Grant.
Any info on the Trijicon TR21?
ls a new reticle actually gonna happen?
Great picture Hawkeye!
If you could try and get some of the new G21SF and M&P45 for me I would REALLY appreciate it. :)
http://lundestudio.com/2007SHOTShow/
Scroll down and click on G21SF pics for larger photos
Anything on the Magpul UBR stocks?
Great picture Hawkeye!
If you could try and get some of the new G21SF and M&P45 for me I would REALLY appreciate it. :)
Tomorrow.
Anything on the Magpul UBR stocks?
Working on them hard and fast. The one I got to look as was just drool worthy. Will definitely be using one on my RECCE type build.
Thoughts after 1/2 a day today.
Nothing new at Gemtech, but AAC had a ton of new stuff, some of it very interesting.
I very much like the look of the Masada, and the thought that went into the design. The guys we talked to said it is based on the 180, but pretty loosely. It will be a very interesting product for sure.
The guy we talked to at FN said 2008 for an LE SCAR, and he couldn't speculate as to when we might see a civilian model. He seemed kind of insulted that we would even ask.
The new AUG looks VERY nice, and the guy we spoke to in the booth was very knowledgeable. If there was ever a gun that I'd buy as a collector piece, an AUG would be it. I guess it's from too much Miami Vice growing up...
The Cproducts 9mm mag looks awesome. Very good quality, and it makes me wish I owned a 9mm AR just so I could buy some mags.
Aimpoint's new AA product looks very nice, but I was more interested in their mini model.
The Tango Down short grip will be very cool, and allegedly 600 will be produced some time in the next month or so. I'll have one, but I may just cut off the grip(s) I have as thats all TD is doing. It costs $3 more for them to sell you a short one.
I will get a couple of pairs of Woolrich lightweight pants. They also incorporated the extra belt loop at the seam that the 10-8 folks said I was stupid for asking for. Go figure.
The "high speed" internet connection in my hotel room isn't very, so I'll have to upload pics when I get back.
Can anyone provide an update on the Colt 1020?
...it will probably come down to the new G21SF or M&P45 for me.
Oops. You typed or when you meant to type and.
:)
After seeing the dog & pony show on the mag-pul masada at the show, I won't be happy again until I own one.
I was disappointed not to find Robinson at the show. When I got home tonight I checked their website only to find that they have a rifle on display in the Falcon Industries booth. What really kills me is that I was at that booth today and bought Ergo 1911 grips and never saw the rifle. Oh well.... after seeing the masada, I have dropped the idea of the XCR.
Sounds great. I was thinking of putting one on an SPR set up. Did they have a sample of the triangular box that goes in the UBR ?
baffle Stack
01-13-07, 00:22
I will get a couple of pairs of Woolrich lightweight pants. They also incorporated the extra belt loop at the seam that the 10-8 folks said I was stupid for asking for. Go figure.
Call me stupid. What's it for?
keep a holster from sliding?
or just one extra with the others redistributed to hold belts better maybe?
keep a holster from sliding?
or just one extra with the others redistributed to hold belts better maybe?
Yep. That was one of my complaints with the original pants I have was that there was just too much unsupported seam along that edge. "They" made the argument that it was left unobstructed for holster placement, but what does a 1/2" belt loop really affect holster placement? And at what cost?
I guess the "high speed" is more so first thing in the morning when you aren't trying to share.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0025Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0024Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0020Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0014Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0011Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0012Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0013Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0002Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0004Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0005Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0006Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0007Medium.jpg
Can anyone provide an update on the Colt 1020?
I hope to do that very thing today. Colt is on the top of my list of booths to stop by.
Colt
Trijicon
Kel Tec
Strider Knives
DSA
Rock River Arms
Crimson Trace
Surefire
Sigarms
Grant, What's the ETA on the new Aimpoint?
That Masada is looking promising. It the trigger pack a drop in unit? I can't tell from the pic, are the parts metal?
The Castle nut is backwards on that one AR a couple pics up, the one that has the "old" Aimpoint on it.
Mark
Jay Cunningham
01-13-07, 08:11
That gigantic honking Aimpoint looks a little out of place, sort of retrogressive.
OTOH, I'd love to evaluate the micro Aimpoint on an AK platform. The list price is double that of the LT IronDot, though...
Hawkeye/Rob_S, Does Magpul have a vertical grip yet?
Grant, What's the ETA on the new Aimpoint?
That Masada is looking promising. It the trigger pack a drop in unit? I can't tell from the pic, are the parts metal?
Mark
The trigger box is a drop-in unit and is made of metal along with the interior frame rails.
That gigantic honking Aimpoint looks a little out of place, sort of retrogressive.
OTOH, I'd love to evaluate the micro Aimpoint on an AK platform. The list price is double that of the LT IronDot, though...
Gigantic? It's no bigger than the previous version- the battery compartment is longer though- it holds a AA.
I hope to do that very thing today. Colt is on the top of my list of booths to stop by.
Colt
Trijicon
Kel Tec
Strider Knives
DSA
Rock River Arms
Crimson Trace
Surefire
Sigarms
Rob, if you would ask RRA about the .308. My buddy has been waiting to get one.
rob s;
when you stop by the colt booth see what you can find out about the colt gas piston. thanks.
The trigger box is a drop-in unit and is made of metal along with the interior frame rails.
sweet, I really would like to shoot this blaster!
Have you guys seen any additions to the thermal scopes out there?
IF it's the one being made by Pete/PJ's with assistance from Microtech, it will not accept AUG mags (although AUG's can accept PJ mags). It will use proprietary mags. :confused:
They are making their own mags for the AUG.
Any info on the Trijicon TR21?
ls a new reticle actually gonna happen?
Yes and no. Went to the Trijicon booth on the first day and asked if they had a new reticle for the TR21. They looked at me kind of strange and said that they MIGHT show something during SS and to check back later. Well I never saw anything so I don't know what is going on.
C4
John_Wayne777
01-13-07, 17:59
Gigantic? It's no bigger than the previous version- the battery compartment is longer though- it holds a AA.
Is the battery type the main difference between the ML3?
Anything on the Magpul UBR stocks?
About 3 months out they said.
C4
Is the battery type the main difference between the ML3?
Basically, yes. The lengthened battery compartment makes it impossible to get a ring around it since the compartment runs basically the entire length of the tube. This is what necessitates the funky mount shown in my pictures.
rob s;
when you stop by the colt booth see what you can find out about the colt gas piston. thanks.
I got a chance to talk to one of the guys from Colt for quite awhile. The vast majority of our conversation was about the piston guns. He seemed confident that the 1020 would be released to the civilian/LEO market "sometime". Evidently they made promisses at last year's show and now hav ea bit of egg on their face since the gun is not out.
They should be releasing the 6940 first, which has the monolithic upper over a standard direct-gas system. They should have 100 of the uppers produced for this model in the next couple of months.
The biggest hinderance would appear to be that they are frantically working to keep up with M4 production. The guy I talked to said they are producing 500 M4s a day for government use, and that doesn't leave much room in production for civilian and LE guns.
Grant, What's the ETA on the new Aimpoint?
That Masada is looking promising. It the trigger pack a drop in unit? I can't tell from the pic, are the parts metal?
The Castle nut is backwards on that one AR a couple pics up, the one that has the "old" Aimpoint on it.
Mark
They both should be available soon and I ordered both models.
C4
Hawkeye/Rob_S, Does Magpul have a vertical grip yet?
Not that I saw. Their booth was very small and was obviously dominated by the Masada. The only other products I saw there were the CTR, UBR and whatever they're calling their sniper stock.
Robb Jensen
01-13-07, 18:28
Is the battery type the main difference between the ML3?
If IIRC the Aimpoint M4 (1 AA battery) lasts 80K hrs.
Rob, thanks for the info'. hope you enjoyed the show.
Almost forgot, LMT is coming out with their own Gas Piston system for the MRP! You will be able to buy the MPR with the gas system (installed at the factory) and buy a kit if you already have an MRP!
C4
Grant,
Anymore info on this? Was it at the show, or just announced? Time-frame on availability?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=31683#post31683
Nathan_Bell
01-13-07, 19:09
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=31683#post31683
Nice write-up, and it looks like a very promising design. The speed that they created the design makes it even more impressive.
Just to kinda throw a curve ball in here...
Don't know if any of you are 10/22 fans...
But around here on small pests birds,gophers,skunks,rabbits,squirrels,possums,and coons we like em and the kids sure love theirs..
This new 10/22 receiver from Tactical Solutions...looks pretty neat...along with their bolt and handle....looks like Picatinny rail...
I want a couple...I know the nephews will.....
http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2007/Day3/100_0417.jpg
John_Wayne777
01-13-07, 21:21
If IIRC the Aimpoint M4 (1 AA battery) lasts 80K hrs.
Wow....That's a fair bit of improvement over the M3 models.....
...Which means that maybe the M3 models will start going on sale and I can finally buy one!
Goodie for me!
I did a whirlwind day at SHOT today since I was sort of in the area between projects. These are some of the things I would reasonably like (meaning: may actually be a possibility/available some day) to take home.
- The girl at the AmeriGlo booth. (This may be a tough one)
- ELCAN Spectre DR. Very nice glass, nice reticle. Love the flip.
- Mini Aimpoint or whatever they're calling it.
- AAC Black Box and 416-SD
- Magpul Masada and just about most other Magpul prods.
- M&P 45.
- HK 416/417 & HK45.
- Colt 1033 (I think that was the number)
- Troys M14 stock.
- Vltor complete upper.
ETA. - CCF alloy Glock frame & M&P 45.
Wow....That's a fair bit of improvement over the M3 models.....
According to the Aimpoint guy we talked to, the only reason it's not rated longer is that there isn't a battery with a shelf life over 80k.
Another side benefit of the show was that I got to meet Grant and, after years of corresposing via various forums, Shivan. Wish I had more time to spend with both of them.
Anybody see a VLTOR "Billet Lower"?....
On the STG 556 Made In U.S.A. AUG.....is the optic a 1.5X Swarovski?
Are the barrels hammer forged? Cr Lined?
What's the weight?
tia
One problem I have with the new M4 Aimpoint, is the cost. For as much more as it costs than an M3/ML3, I could buy a life time of batteries and still be able to use whatever mount I wanted.
Any news/pictures of the FN .45?
I looked at it a bit. I like it. Feels really nice in the hand. I would consider possibly picking one up. Sorry I cant give me details on it though, as I didnt spend a lot of time messing with it.
As a counter point, for my average size hand, the M&P 45 felt best, followed by the HK45, G21SF and I found the FN45 the least appealing ergonomically.
Chris Poston
01-14-07, 12:08
Most of the cool stuff has already been covered but I will throw in my take on a few things.
The S&W M&P, .45acp looked very nice and seemed a much better alternative than the Glock SF model (sorry Glock guys).
Shiloh Sharps had one of the better booths ,even though it was very small. I finally got to hold a 45/90 in presentation grade. The workmanship was over the top! and so was the price :eek:
Got to speak with Col. Alphin at A-Square. There is a man who I wish I could have dinner with just to listen to him talk about about big bore rifles and hunting big game.
Benchmade has some nice stuff coming out for the working crowd (IE. under $100 bucks) even though their booth layout sucked (the non LE booth).
Met, Steve Sheldon of Triad Tactical , Ben Lenett of Eagle , Dean Caputo (a super nice guy !), Mark Larue and many others (missed meeting Grant but the LE section was a zoo).
Many of the big name booths were very lack luster and did'nt have much of interest to see ( Remington,Winchester,etc.)
The guys at Tango Down,Daniel Defense,Viking Tactics,YHM,BFG,The Wilderness,Eagle,Magpul and others I am sure I left out took the time to answer questions and didnt look down on the little guys. The folks at FN were S#&$heads.
The Surefire booth had some nice stuff. They hinted around at a new LED/incandescent combo weapon light coming in the future (prob. 08).
It was good to talk with Ed Brown again. One of the most easy going guys there.
Spent some time talking with Lindy Cooper Wisdom and picked up a few books.
The guys a Slip2000 were a riot!, and said a grease version was in the works.
The Blonde at the Surefire LE booth was the winner of the best of show IMO !
Some of the surf expo (it was across the street) folks provided night time entertainment at a few of the local restaurantes. It was interesting to see guys in 5.11 clothing mingling with the flip flop surf shorts crowd. I saw at least one very close call :D
Over all it was a lot to take it in two days. It seems I will be broke for much of 2007.
As a counter point, for my average size hand, the M&P 45 felt best, followed by the HK45, G21SF and I found the FN45 the least appealing ergonomically.
No disagreement here. The M&P 45 did feel the best, though I didnt get a chance to handle the Glock. I am interested to see how things develope with the M&P 45. I liked the FN 45, but, I didnt say I liked it the best. :D
Some of the surf expo (it was across the street) folks provided night time entertainment at a few of the local restaurantes. It was interesting to see guys in 5.11 clothing mingling with the flip flop surf shorts crowd. I saw at least one very close call :D
I had a few friends that were attending the Surf Expo and I went in for a while Saturday afternoon. What a contrast! Anyway, it was very "visually appealing" at the surf show.
Some guy was selling carbon fiber surfboards that were "totally awsome!", may have to retire the old overbuilt Spectrum for one of these in a 7'6" egg.
- The girl at the AmeriGlo booth.
Any photos? :D
Submariner
01-14-07, 12:41
The guys a Slip2000 were a riot!, and said a grease version was in the works.
TW-25B is hard ti find around here.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=3223
According to the Aimpoint guy we talked to, the only reason it's not rated longer is that there isn't a battery with a shelf life over 80k.
That clears that up for me. I was wondering why a AA that has something like 7x the total power of a 1/3N was only rated for an additional 30,000 hours.
Are the M4's just a pre-production model at this point? I'm wondering if they will have different height mounts available at first.
It was interesting to see guys in 5.11 clothing mingling with the flip flop surf shorts crowd.
Hey, let's leave rob_s out of this!
;)
Anyone get pics of the Smith .45? :D
Anyone get pics of the Smith .45? :D
No, but I really like it.
I did get pics of Paul (Bravo Company) holding a fruity umbrella drink though! :D
C4
Grant,
Anymore info on this? Was it at the show, or just announced? Time-frame on availability?
They didn't have one there for me to see and said that they are not that far out on them.
C4
Just to kinda throw a curve ball in here...
Don't know if any of you are 10/22 fans...
But around here on small pests birds,gophers,skunks,rabbits,squirrels,possums,and coons we like em and the kids sure love theirs..
This new 10/22 receiver from Tactical Solutions...looks pretty neat...along with their bolt and handle....looks like Picatinny rail...
I want a couple...I know the nephews will.....
http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2007/Day3/100_0417.jpg
Saw these and ordered them!
They are also making a 1911 slide chambered in .22 AND are making mags for them (since most .22 mags for a 1911 platform SUCK). I got put on the back order list for these (couple months out).
I also bought their tan Hogue stocks (which hogue only makes from them). They are look great.
C4
Wow....That's a fair bit of improvement over the M3 models.....
...Which means that maybe the M3 models will start going on sale and I can finally buy one!
Goodie for me!
That number will vary upon which AA battery you use. Meaning if you use a cheap Alky VS a high end Lithium, the run times are not going to be the same.
C4
Another side benefit of the show was that I got to meet Grant and, after years of corresposing via various forums, Shivan. Wish I had more time to spend with both of them.
Good to meet you Rob (and your yellow visor).
C4
Anybody see a VLTOR "Billet Lower"?....
On the STG 556 Made In U.S.A. AUG.....is the optic a 1.5X Swarovski?
Are the barrels hammer forged? Cr Lined?
What's the weight?
tia
Saw no Billet VLTOR lower.
No idea on the optic and didn't get any specs on the barrel (sorry). The guys do post on here so ask them your questions.
C4
As a counter point, for my average size hand, the M&P 45 felt best, followed by the HK45, G21SF and I found the FN45 the least appealing ergonomically.
Agree. I think the M&P stole the "45" show.
C4
That clears that up for me. I was wondering why a AA that has something like 7x the total power of a 1/3N was only rated for an additional 30,000 hours.
Are the M4's just a pre-production model at this point? I'm wondering if they will have different height mounts available at first.
The M4's are ready to go and I ordered a bunch of them. They will come with a mount and different spacers.
C4
Last, but not least, I got to sped some time with the SIG 556 (metal rail version). Here are my list of problems with it:
Metal rail has TONS of play in it (read cannot mount an optic or laser on it).
There is a LARGE gap between the rear grip and the Trigger Guard. Chewed my finger up (an ear plug and tape can fix this issue though).
With the weapon shouldered and on safe (finger outside the TG), the ambi safety made contact with my shooting finger when I put the weapon on fire. I could see that if I wasn't paying attention, I could try and fire the weapon and it would be on safe (didn't like that at all).
Have to use their BUIS's to work properly.
C4
Last, but not least, I got to sped some time with the SIG 556 (metal rail version). Here are my list of problems with it:
Metal rail has TONS of play in it (read cannot mount an optic or laser on it).
There is a LARGE gap between the rear grip and the Trigger Guard. Chewed my finger up (an ear plug and tape can fix this issue though).
With the weapon shouldered and on safe (finger outside the TG), the ambi safety made contact with my shooting finger when I put the weapon on fire. I could see that if I wasn't paying attention, I could try and fire the weapon and it would be on safe (didn't like that at all).
Have to use their BUIS's to work properly.
C4
I came to pretty much the same conclusions. In fact, the safety made contact with my hand even when I had my finger on the trigger.
After seeing Michael Bane's video of the 556 being shot and disassembled as well some of the SHOT Show pictures on various websites I have to admit that I was a bit intrigued and trying to find reasons as to why I didn't want this rifle. Thank you Grant and Rob for giving me these reasons. That will keep the money freed up to finish other already started endevours.
Thus another SHOT Show ends. Glock denied me satisfaction once again. Sounds like Arsenal Inc. didn't release the SLR 107 or 108. Several other great rifles appear to be on the horizon (AUG, Masada and the Colt gas piston), albiet for the time being, out of my price range and/or unavailable. It seems that I can go back to simple existence, satisfied with what I own.
Main killer for manual of arms is charging handle on wrong side.
No, but I really like it.
I did get pics of Paul (Bravo Company) holding a fruity umbrella drink though! :D
C4
Welllll......................post em :o
baffle Stack
01-14-07, 16:16
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=310630
Here's Chen Lee's post:D
Agree. I think the M&P stole the "45" show.
C4
Did you get to handle the Beretta or the Taurus .45ACP's?
Comments?...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=310630 SMG Lee has some NICE pics of Mr. Magpul and
"Masada" you might like to see...even though it's on....tos....
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=310630
Here's Chen Lee's post:D
I ran into him at the Colt booth. Strange guy, not what I expected.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=310630
Here's Chen Lee's post:D
I think Chen lives for his SHOT picture thread. It seems to be the highlight of his year.
Did you get to handle the Beretta or the Taurus .45ACP's?
I saw both. Quite frankly I don't get all the hoopla about all these polymer .45s, from the XD to the Glock, from the Taurus to the S&W, from the HK to the .... whatever.:confused:
I honestly am beginning to have trouble even telling them apart. Maybe it's just lack of interest on my part.
I saw both. Quite frankly I don't get all the hoopla about all these polymer .45s, from the XD to the Glock, from the Taurus to the S&W, from the HK to the .... whatever.:confused:
I honestly am beginning to have trouble even telling them apart. Maybe it's just lack of interest on my part.
LOL....
Did you get a chance to see U.S. Firearms 1911's? http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/1911.asp
baffle Stack
01-14-07, 18:05
I ran into him at the Colt booth. Strange guy, not what I expected.
LOL(I feel kinda gay after posting LOL;) ). I wouldn't know. I do know his Shot Show threads are top notch. Many of his pics have made it to my hard drive. I could care less that it's on ARF or how 'stange' he is.:)
Did you get to handle the Beretta or the Taurus .45ACP's?
Comments?...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=310630 SMG Lee has some NICE pics of Mr. Magpul and
"Masada" you might like to see...even though it's on....tos....
Didn't play with the Beretta, but spent some quality time with the Taurus. The trigger on it SUCKS, but is a VERY fair priced weapon that will interest a lot of bargain shoppers.
C4
LOL(I feel kinda gay after posting LOL;) ). I wouldn't know. I do know his Shot Show threads are top notch. Many of his pics have made it to my hard drive. I could care less that it's on ARF or how 'stange' he is.:)
Chen is a nice guy and very friendly in person. He always says hi to me and chit chats. A lot of the guys you meet on the boards tend to be 100% different in person.
C4
militarymoron
01-14-07, 18:30
I ran into him at the Colt booth. Strange guy, not what I expected.
i know what you mean. i had no idea he was Asian. :p
militarymoron
01-14-07, 18:34
A lot of the guys you meet on the boards tend to be 100% different in person.
C4
LOL - tell me about it. you didn't look anything like justin timberlake when i first met you.
LOL....
Did you get a chance to see U.S. Firearms 1911's? http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/1911.asp
Wow, no, but I wish I had. Looks like a very good attempt at reproducing the original. I'd have loved to ask them why it was worth $1800 as well.
Didn't play with the Beretta, but spent some quality time with the Taurus. The trigger on it SUCKS, but is a VERY fair priced weapon that will interest a lot of bargain shoppers.
C4
If you thought the Taurus sucked, did you pull the trigger on the Kimber polymer gun? Sweet baby Jesus, they must measure that trigger pull in tons, not pounds.
K.L. Davis
01-14-07, 18:37
LOL - tell me about it. you didn't look anything like justin timberlake when i first met you.
Ya'know... when I first saw Grant at the airport, I honestly thought "Hey, is that Justin Timberlake?"
:p
Hey, let's leave rob_s out of this!
;)
I'll have you know, my yellow visor got me recognized no less than 4 times at the show.:D
i know what you mean. i had no idea he was Asian. :p
LMAO! Ya, you gotta watch out for those Asian (Ninja) guys. :p
C4
Ya'know... when I first saw Grant at the airport, I honestly thought "Hey, is that Justin Timberlake?"
:p
Funny guys you are. :mad:
C4
K.L. Davis
01-14-07, 18:45
I'll have you know, my yellow visor got me recognized no less than 4 times at the show.:D
So that was you, interesting.
I thought I'd take a second to just type up the notes I took today so that I can chuck the notebook.
Aimpoint
Retail on the M4 is $700 and it is available now. The mini, my personal favorite, is $650 retail and should be available in 90 days. They also have a hunting model available in the mini that comes in a gloss black or silver and is not NV compatible that is $580.
Kimber
The trigger pull on the polymer gun they are pushing is pure crap. I don't know what they were thinking.
On the plus side, they have a VERY cool new tactical bolt action rifle that comes in two models, both wearing a McMillan stock; one with an adjustable comb and one fixed. They come with a mount with, and I forget how many, some number of minutes (I think 20?) as well as a hard case, log book, and all the tools you'd need to work on it. I'll have pictures to post of this bad boy tomorrow. MSRP of $1836 for the non-adjustable and $2497 for the adjustable. At that price difference though, there must be other differences. It looks like master dealer is $500 less, so there will be some wiggle room as to street price.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0097Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0098Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0099Medium.jpg
Rock River Arms
Expect the 308 AR to be on shelves in 3-4 months. They expect an MSRP of $1100 to $1300. They have re-designed the charging handle, but the guy I talked to denied that Bushmaster ever had a problem with bolts failing.:confused: That concerns me as it leads me to believe that they haven't done anything to change or correct the design. Time, and the market, will tell I suppose.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0102Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0103Medium.jpg
Les Baer
Baer has added "Recon" frames to their lineup, with the first 100 or so being on Caspian frames and the subsequent production being on their own frames.
They're also doing a collaboration deal with Busse Knives (http://www.bussecombat.com/home/index.shtml) which includes a Busse knife and a pistol with design cues from the knife as well as grips made by Busse from the same material as the handle of the knife. I'll have pics of this one tomorrow as well.
The guy that we talked with today at Baer was very cool and very helpful and informative. I was generally pleasantly surprised with everyone at this booth.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0107Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0109Medium.jpg
Pentagon Lights
They have a new replacement for the goosneck military light that is smaller and brighter and runs an LED off of a single AA. It's sized to fit inside of MOLLE webbing and clips on to just about anything. It's also available with both red and blue filters, and features a tiny compass in the base. I think it will be invaluable at night shoots for admin purposes.
They also now have a series of lights with a nav light on the bottom. This may have been old news, but it was new to me and very cool.
I also met Pat Ahern from 10-8 and another SWAT cop at this booth (who's name I forgot already) today that were both very cool.
Ceiner
I had heard that this guy was a prick, and it was nice to finally meet him face to face and find out that the rumors were true. He's coming out with a .22 magnum upper for the AR, but was pretty rude about sharing any information about it. When asked about higher cap mags (it'll ship with 10), he said he would eventually come out with 20s, and then 30s. When asked why he would phase them, he said he'd do it "to make more money off of you". Then he went on to bitch about why anyone would "need" a 30 round magazine anyway.
With that attitude, he can keep the damn upper, and hopefully he'll have every one of them shoved right up his ass when he rots in hell.
Kel Tec
I have to say, their .308 rifle was the thing that impressed me most, even more than the Masada, at SHOT. FAL mags, very compact, well though out design/engineering, and alot of potential.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0066Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0067Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0068Medium.jpg
DSA
Besides their usual collection of FALs, they also had a weird little pistol/subgun type "thing" on display. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do exactly, but I'm sure it will appear in quite a few movies in the near future.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0071Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0070Medium.jpg
Eotech
The magnifier was obviously their big news. I'm not a big fan of the Eotech, but it appears to me that they have moved their buttons to the side on some mofels to facilitate use with the magnifier. They have both a 3x and 4x available.
3x
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0079Medium.jpg
4x
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0081Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0077Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/SHOT/IMG_0078Medium.jpg
So that was you, interesting.
I guess that makes 5. Should have said hello. Where did you see me?
I will say that I’m already sick of the Magpul Masada and I wasn’t even at the Shot Show.
Did anyone ask LMT when the Gas-Piston MRP will be available?
I will say that I’m already sick of the Magpul Masada and I wasn’t even at the Shot Show.
Did anyone ask LMT when the Gas-Piston MRP will be available?
Yes. I got a "soon."
C4
<Edit: Sorry Joe, nothing personal but that comment will invite trouble that none of us have time to deal with. - M4arc>
Do the SHOT Show 'officials' put out a published 'after action' report of somekind?
Kind of like a re-cap and what to look forward to next year?
Maybe a few of us can meet up at the next one....I really want to go...IF I am still around and able (job change is coming).
Do the SHOT Show 'officials' put out a published 'after action' report of somekind?
Kind of like a re-cap and what to look forward to next year?
Maybe a few of us can meet up at the next one....I really want to go...IF I am still around and able (job change is coming).
Around? What's that supposed to mean Chris? That and the "and able" make it sound like your new job might entail a lot of drug trafficking in SE Asia or something...
<edited - M4arc>
C'mon, Joe, be above the drama.
It's a good picture thread, and all the gun boards are filled with links to picture threads on other boards.
Sorry, do I know you from there?
I like creating my own drama sometimes. That and I have Tourette's syndrome I think...
Move along people, there's nothing to see here.
Do the SHOT Show 'officials' put out a published 'after action' report of somekind?
Kind of like a re-cap and what to look forward to next year?
It would be really tough for them to do that. Right now on some hunting site there's a guy posting pictures of the hot new duck decoy, and on a sporting-clays site there's a guy posting pics of the hot new42" barrel shotgun, etc. There's alot more to the show than the stuff that we m4carbine.net members find interesting.:D
Rob- don't be a tease- post links of those decoys...
Austin_Nichols
01-14-07, 20:55
edited - M4arc
C'mon, Joe, be above the drama.
It's a good picture thread, and all the gun boards are filled with links to picture threads on other boards.
I agree. You must have read quite a bit of it to get down to his post. What's with the personal attack anyway?
Just for you: <edited - Let's forget about it and move on - M4arc>
Austin_Nichols
01-14-07, 21:29
M4arc, thanks for the edit of the original post. It's good to see a board that maintains such standards.
I am sorry guys. I don't need to bring that crap here.
I am sorry guys. I don't need to bring that crap here.
Ah, we all have our days. Mine seem to be any day that ends in "Y."
On to the subject at hand, where was the Glock carbine?:D
Glock Carbines? Next to the 1911 Carbines- on Ebay...
Glock Carbines? Next to the 1911 Carbines- on Ebay...
Not the Mag-Tech stuff. The fabled Glock carbine that I've been hearing about every year for at least the last 7 years.
I was afraid there was supposed to be a "real" Glock carbine.
Why would they even want to get into that market? What good would it do them? What would we have, at best? A Keltec that takes common mags and is actually made out of decent plastics? Who really wants that though?
Now that Magpul is getting their feet wet in the actual firearm market, Glock should just forget about it. They built a reputation on what they do and it's done right. People do hate Glocks too, but those same people won't be converted by a carbine.
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