View Full Version : Hackathorn CQB 101 Class AAR
Having attended Larry Vickers/Ken Hackathorn's Low Light 1 and 2 classes, I felt there was a need for Civy's to get more CQB based training. So I asked Mr. Ken Hackathorn to put together a class for us.
As usual, Ken delivered a FANTASTIC two days of training that was extremely beneficial to the student.
The attendees received weapons training on pistols, SMG's and AR's. They also learned how to clear a building in one man, two man and four man teams.
Everyone had a great time, learned a bunch of new things, ate great food and heard a heard a few war stories from Ken.
Here are some pics from the class and will get more up when I get back from vacation!
Thanks goes out to Tom and Joe for all their help with the class.
C4
Ken Teaching the fundamentals of CQB, Pistol and SMG
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Ken_Teaching.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Ken_Teaching1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Ken_MP5.jpg
Pistol Training
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Pistol_training.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Pistol_Moving.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Pistol_Moving1.jpg
SMG Training
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/MP5_Training.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/MP5_Moving.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/MP5_Moving1.jpg
CQB Training
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Blue_Gun.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Blue_gun1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Blue_gun2.jpg
Shoot House
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Moving_To_SH.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Entry.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Entry1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Entry2.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Entry3.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Adam_Shooting.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Ken_Watching.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Joe_Shooting.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Shoot_House.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Shoot_House1.jpg
Peanut Gallery
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Watching.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Class_Photo.jpg
Lucky guys you attendees.
Heavy Metal
05-24-09, 21:47
What a class! It was great to meet everybody. I had a fantastic time. A big thanks to Ken, Grant, Tom and Joe for all their hard work in training and supporting us.
This is the class where you really see how all the pieces all fall into place. Everything I have done up to this point was laying the foundation for this.
This class was a real eye-opener and a bona-fide life-changing event. I guarentee you will never think about gunfighting the same again, ever!
Highly recommended!
Anytime you get a chance to train with the Tactical Dalai Lama, you should take the opportunity to soak up the knowledge. Ken knows a lot about shooting and fighting with all type of guns, but he also knows a lot of history and what make the weapons work.
We had him for a class in March. I can't wait to hold another class.
30 cal slut
05-24-09, 22:24
what's with all the daylight? http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_confused.gif
30 cal slut
05-24-09, 22:32
you guys got to shoot 5.56 in the house? :p
frangible?
me jealous.
Great Job on the photos Hawk.
what's with all the daylight? http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_confused.gif
It was a daylight class for learning CQB.
C4
Great Job on the photos Hawk.
Thanks. More to come.
C4
you guys got to shoot 5.56 in the house? :p
frangible?
me jealous.
Yes, 556 in the house. No frange. All targets were positioned on the outside walls.
C4
John_Wayne777
05-25-09, 08:45
This is certainly one I wish I could have attended. Unfortunately time and finances did not allow...
Good CQB training is always a sound investment.
NCPatrolAR
05-25-09, 10:19
Looks like it was a great class. I would have loved to attended but I was on call for several superior court cases. The attendees were extremely lucky to be able to run 5.56 in the house.
30 cal slut
05-25-09, 17:10
It was a daylight class for learning CQB.
C4
i love that house. ;)
I'm jealous. The last time I did CQB training was out at BW. It's probably some of the best training one can get.
It was a daylight class for learning CQB.
C4
Just a quick/possibly dumb question, why a CQB and team tactics course for civilians? ;)
i love that house. ;)
It is a good shoot house for sure.
Personally I think that target placement was very good (read hard) than it was during low light. This caused many a shooter to kill a hostage.
C4
Just a quick/possibly dumb question, why a CQB and team tactics course for civilians? ;)
Individual clearing was also taught (fyi).
Knowing how to properly clear a home, which is 100% relevant, is always a good idea.
So who is on your two/four man team you ask? Your wife, child, friend, neighbor, etc.
The MOST realistic shooting situation you will be in (as a civy) is a home invasion AKA CQB.
C4
John_Wayne777
05-25-09, 18:01
Just a quick/possibly dumb question, why a CQB and team tactics course for civilians? ;)
It's not a dumb question at all. A lot of people wonder the same thing.
The answer is this: Because the ordinary civilian deals with the very same threats that the guys with badges and body armor deal with. If you're nestled snug in your bed when you hear your daughter scream bloody murder as some scumbag tries to break into her room, you and the wife teaming up to go ruin that ****er's day would be a good thing.
The same guys that the police gear up in body armor and machine guns to go deal with have a bad habit of hurting ordinary people who don't have body armor and machineguns.
Single-man CQB is the most likely to be used by the average joe...but if you have a situation where you have access to help, it would be good to have it.
CQB training is a tool in the toolbox. A tool everyone who carries a weapon for a legitimate purpose ought to know.
I'm jealous. The last time I did CQB training was out at BW. It's probably some of the best training one can get.
Amen! As far as I am concerned, CQB training is the single most important thing you can learn (as a civy).
C4
Big thanks to all in attendance. Learned a lot and had a great time. Now its time to practice, practice, practice.
It really hurt having to look at those photos knowing I had to cancel the class. :(
30 cal slut
05-26-09, 07:27
Amen! As far as I am concerned, CQB training is the single most important thing you can learn (as a civy).
C4
i strongly agree.
in most introductory personal protection and firearms safety training, the consensus by RKI's seems to be that the ordinary citizen should NOT clear his or her own house, on the premise that it is too dangerous.
"let the cops do it" seems to be the mantra.
that's fine if you can account for every family member in your home while a bad guy is rummaging around in your dining room.
but there are times when you may have no choice but to clear your house (spouse/kid is in another room, in imminent danger of grave bodily harm or death).
learning (rudimentary) cqb is not a slam-dunk. i fully appreciate that undertaking it is downright dangerous. having tasted a bit of it, i don't want to walk away with a false sense of security, but it's nice to have the tools to at least have a fighting chance of managing an event like a home invasion. and i believe i have an edge, because, as ken hackthorn says, "you know your own home best."
re: the 2,4,6, and 12 man runs through the house ;) . what i took away from it as relevence to individual clearing is ...
repetition and working through various scenarios.
there is an algorithm with the strong wall technique, and like any other skill/tactic it needs to be practiced.
the front door to the shoothouse where 4 guys are nuts-to-butts could just as well be your bedroom door.
grant, i greatly look forward to upcoming classes if KH plans on making this a regular offering.
Rob Haught
05-26-09, 07:40
I had a chance to stop by and watch a while and the level of skill displayed by the guys was very good for their first exposure to a CQB type scenario. A live fire shoothouse puts the Mojo on most people the first few runs. With the benefit of a world class instructor like Ken and a good facility like OVT it makes it much faster to
get over the hump. To those folks who wonder why you should'nt just wait for the cavalry to arrive I like to say " when every second counts, remember the cops are just minutes away". And you should carry a gun because a cop is too heavy! Being able to defend and properly navigate your home in an emergency is vital. It was nice to meet everyone and good luck to you.
Rob Haught
Individual clearing was also taught (fyi).
Knowing how to properly clear a home, which is 100% relevant, is always a good idea.
So who is on your two/four man team you ask? Your wife, child, friend, neighbor, etc.
The MOST realistic shooting situation you will be in (as a civy) is a home invasion AKA CQB.
C4
Grant, the answer from you and the others explains the situation quite clearly.
I take it that the course participants were experienced/advanced shooters with good shooting skills to begin with?
What I'm after is that people just dont kit up for a CQB course when it is available, but have more basic training under their belts.
The answers above are excellent, and I'll add one small facet that I think is relevant. Most of these CQB type courses have higher expectations, performance requirements and qualifications. These types of classes are excellent ways to push your personal standards to a new level and to expand your tool box.
Just like there are other steps to fire arms competency, practice, competitions, quality firearms classes, etc. Moving in a shoot house with other people, both for the 'crowding' aspect and for the teamwork/camaraderie, all while placing precision fire on target is another huge step forward for expanding your comfort zone..
Just my .02 kopeks
Grant, the answer from you and the others explains the situation quite clearly.
I take it that the course participants were experienced/advanced shooters with good shooting skills to begin with?
What I'm after is that people just dont kit up for a CQB course when it is available, but have more basic training under their belts.
Several people in the class had no formal weapons training so you do not have to have any.
I would generally suggest that you have a basic pistol/AR class before going through a CQB training.
C4
I had a chance to stop by and watch a while and the level of skill displayed by the guys was very good for their first exposure to a CQB type scenario.
Rob Haught
Thanks for the kind words Rob :D Its nice to hear a pro say we did well.
John_Wayne777
05-26-09, 19:24
I take it that the course participants were experienced/advanced shooters with good shooting skills to begin with?
What I'm after is that people just dont kit up for a CQB course when it is available, but have more basic training under their belts.
Generally you're right, as this is the sort of thing you want to go after after you've mastered the fundamentals.
That being said, the crawl-walk-run way that Ken breaks down the instruction makes it possible to take someone who is relatively inexperienced and make them safe and competent in basic CQB drills.
Failure2Stop
05-27-09, 10:03
Single man clearing techniques are one of my glaring weaknesses. While I have spent a lot of time doing and teaching team-based CQB/urban tactics, I have very little experience doing single-man ops (one of our mantras is "never go into a room alone), it is definately a skill set that is needed for anyone that has a firearm for home defense or may need to work alone.
30 cal slut
05-27-09, 21:40
Anybody shoot the hostage?
http://www.alleba.com/blog/wp-content/photos/angelina_jolie.jpg
Heavy Metal
05-27-09, 21:43
I want a picture of her wearing a white bandanna.
Anybody shoot the hostage?
http://www.alleba.com/blog/wp-content/photos/angelina_jolie.jpg
Several people did.
C4
Jay Cunningham
05-28-09, 05:01
Several people did.
Did they curve their bullets?
Business_Casual
05-28-09, 09:33
Did they curve their bullets?
They didn't use bullets, dude.
M_P
Did they curve their bullets?
I am sure some of them wished they could.
C4
Forgive me for straying off topic, but how many rounds were shot with long gun and sidearms?
Forgive me for straying off topic, but how many rounds were shot with long gun and sidearms?
Pistol was around 500 & rifle was about 200.
So a very low count with a lot of instruction (which is what you want in times of over priced/rare ammo).
C4
Derek_Connor
05-28-09, 13:35
Single man clearing techniques are one of my glaring weaknesses. While I have spent a lot of time doing and teaching team-based CQB/urban tactics, I have very little experience doing single-man ops (one of our mantras is "never go into a room alone), it is definately a skill set that is needed for anyone that has a firearm for home defense or may need to work alone.
I wish more instructors would be open to this.
Pistol was around 500 & rifle was about 200.
So a very low count with a lot of instruction (which is what you want in times of over priced/rare ammo).
C4
Thanks Grant. No problem with low round count, because they're quality rounds.
HawaiianBob
05-28-09, 19:28
To start off id like to thank everyone who was involved with putting this class together.
For me personally the class was a life changing experience.
I think some basic training like trigger control, basic weapon manipulation, etc. really went a long way to enable people to soak up more of the instruction on CQB.
The instructors were top notch. Some people are good at what they do but are not good teachers. This was not the case in this class. The instructions were clear and the group was watched very closely to make sure things were done correctly. When there were issues they were taken care of quickly. The fix could be anywhere from some one on one attention to small reminders to get you back on track...ie..."quick, cover the bad holes before I see them" or my fav, "(name) U CHEATING ****" :D
Pre class prep was also a HUGE help. Running my gear with a full load and making sure everything was in order also allowed me to learn more while I was at class instead of worrying or fighting my gear... Sight all guns. Have back up guns. Extra ammo. 10 mags or more (less reloading at bad times and no worries). Boolets loose in cans for easy loading and transport. Sun screen. Hat. Kit to carry stuff like mags, water, pen, paper, etc. etc etc.
BTW black ninja outfit made it a little warmer for me and the armor was an added treat...Thank god im used to heavier armor and was born and raised in Hawaii.
One of the interesting things about the class was the sheer amount of mental concentration one needed to complete the class. Switching between the thinking brain and lizard brain and making sure things went were they were supposed to go, beat me up. Knowing your gear really helped in this aspect because you could use more brain power on other things when you were familiar with your gear.
The drills learned at this class are great and with a little bit of work I can use them here at home.
The class was pretty fast paced because of time constraints but I think we were all given enough time to pick up the ideas so we could continue to drill at home. Use it or loose it.
Other tid bits and highlights include.
Dude. Dont shoot the wall...well...we could use rubber boolets.
AWWWW! I only shot her in the collar bone...Shes Aaaright...she survived.
Clear on the left! BLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM....dude! you just destroyed the guy i just saved.
Clear on the left. Clear on the right... ... ... uuuh... you guys sure the room is cleared? (bad guy target standing behind good guy target)
You dont jump into the room like Starsky and Hutch!!!
Be carefull of the uzi stick mags they have a bad habit of throwing out rounds if u bump them...(5min later) bump raaaaaaa *fountain of boolets*
You guys shot all the good guy targets!?!?!?!? There were good guy targets??? YA...the ones with their hands up. I didnt know there was an international sign for "im a good guy"
What is that taget holding...is it a radio...explosives detonater...odd gun shape...?????EEK bad guy target!
I know im leaving out stuff but bottom line a GREAT class and a GREAT time.
I wish more instructors would be open to this.
Every fixed facility carbine course I've attended offered a single man room clearing exercise, in some cases multiple runs.
The OVT facility is excellent, I think they even offer a rappelling course :)
TDI-Ohio's Tac Rifle II course has several blocks on one man room clearing as well as the same in low light.
Itinerant instructors are usually limited by their host range facilities.
It is also time/instructor/safety intensive to actually run a shoot house. So you will always have a large group waiting to go vs. actually doing it unless there are other stations set up (back to time/instructor resources)
Good report Bob! I dont know who would have shot the guy you saved four times. What a douche. :D
I do agree that being familiar with your gear and comfortable with your marksmanship skills really is a big plus when you go into lizard mode and have much more important things to think about. Like not shooting Angelina. LOL
Just got back from vacation so here are some more pics.
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Entry4.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Entry5.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Entry6.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Shoot_House2.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Shoot_House3.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Shoot_House4.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Shoot_House5.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Shoot_House6.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Shoot_House7.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Shoot_House8.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/M4C/CQB_101_509/Shoot_house9.jpg
the1911fan
06-01-09, 14:28
More fun and exciting when done at 0200:D
Wow - appears to be a great class.
When is the next one?
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