View Full Version : Thinking about joining the Military...
GLP Standard
05-24-09, 21:53
Lets start off by saying a little about me. Im 24 years old, in the process of buying my first house. I work on a closed Air Force base as a member of Security Forces (civilian contracted) so I pretty much have a general idea of how the Military looks, as I see and deal with active duty members of the Air Force, Marines and British Army every day (mostly AF though). Im 6'3" and weigh 260lbs. I am overweight yes, but I'm generally a big guy anyway, so Im not THAT bad off. I think I should weigh about 210 ideally, and would like to get down to 230 at least before I do anything.
All that being said, here is my viewpoint on it: Ive never thought about joining the Military, but the more I think about it, it seems more and more appealing. Money for college, everything paid for by the Govt so all my income is basically in my pocket, not to mention some real life experience so I can use it to get a job in Law Enforcement in the future (I know they look for ex Military a lot more than your average Joe). Back to what I said about me never wanting to join the Military until now: I always just thought it was never for me. I'm not going to say I'm a pussy, although I feel that any man who goes over seas and fights for our country is a better man than I.
Here is my opinion...I know how risky being in the Military overseas is. Ive talked to some OSI guys for the Air Force about it, and I asked "Is there ever a time when you're deployed that you don't feel you have to watch your ass, or worry about getting shot at?" To which he replied "Not really, no." I just don't know if I would like that. Being a Police Officer and risking your life for 8-10 hours a day is one thing, but you get to go home and sleep in your own bed in your own house for 16-14 hours after that, and not worry about getting shot at or blown up 24/7 for months on end. One of the OSI guys told me that being deployed overseas really lets you know what you're made of, which is why he likes it so much. I can completely understand and relate to that. I would kind of like to know how I would do in combat. Problem is, I don't know what I would do if I came home from the war as a paraplegic, or I lost an arm or a leg, or worse, I didn't come home at all. Not to mention dealing with PTSD after coming home is a concern of mine too. Hey, I'm not here trying to whine or complain about it. Its a job like any other, and its a very dangerous job at that. Im just saying Im having a hard time finding out if its for me.
Another problem I have is that I like to have a routine schedule and stability in my life. I like having a regular stationary place of employment, where I can own a house and come home to that house every night. I don't like knowing that I could get a phone call saying that I'm going to another country for 8 months and I have 2 days to pack. I have a girlfriend who Ive been with for 3 years, and though things arent always the greatest and theres times Im questioning whether or not we're going to make it through another day, Id like to keep her in my life. If she wasnt in my life, this issue of mine wouldnt be as big of a problem for me.
If I was to join the Military, I would want to go Coast Guard or Air Force. No Marines, no Army. I know what I'm made of, and I honestly don't think Im right for that type of service. Plus, I'd like to have an MOS where Im there for some type of skill or knowledge, not just to kill people. Sorry if Im offending anyway, this is just my opinion, and I believe that the Marines and the Army are pretty much for just that. Also, I can't decide if it would be best to go Full time or Reserve.
Im just rambling on now. The point is...try to persuade me, or push me away from the Military based on what you think would be best for me from what Ive told you. Tell me what you know, and what you think I could expect. Recommendations, and any factual corrections on anything ive stated are appreciated as well.
If someone else needs to convince you to join the military, you probably shouldn't do it.
It seems like you're thinking about joining because of the material benefits you'll receive and looking at what's in it for you.
GLP Standard
05-24-09, 22:11
If someone else needs to convince you to join the military, you probably shouldn't do it.
I CAN and WILL eventually decide for myself. I dont need someone else for that, and thats how it should be. I just want to hear first hand opinions from people who have been there and know what to expect. This will help me make my decision.
If your looking for Law Enforcement down the line, then Coast Guard doing Maritime Law Enforcement might be a good route to go, you would also be considered part of Homeland Security.
Air and Army Guard are great for the educational benefits in most states. If you ever get selected to go to a college type Police Academy it would most likely be covered by your benefits.
No matter what, don't expect to get into the Military or Police type work and not expect to be put into situations that will place you in danger...
Airforce OSI work at such high clearance levels and overseas usually get involved in work beyond their paygrade... Thus, it is probably MORE dangerous for that specific job field vs. other professions in the military. Also Airforce OSI is a mix of Airforce personnel and federally employed agents... ALL OSI Agents train in Georgia at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center.
Not many folks join the service wanting to die, so you are obviously among those who wish to come home safely... That's normal.
What you have to ask yourself, is if your have the desire to serve your country, knowing that the risk exist of not coming home...
Freedom is not free, it was earned by the blood of our forefathers and will be paid for in the blood of today's servicemen and women.
If you decide not to join, it does not mean that you can't do your part. You can always support your servicemen/women in many other ways...
You can always take a job with Homeland Security as well.
No matter what service you choose, it is not all gummie bears and stuffed animals... Expect to be broken down and rebuilt into a newer man.
I will never regret any of my time in the service. I value both the good and the bad equally as it provided me with life lessons that made me the man I am today.
Good luck in whatever you choose...
Having served as a grunt in the USMC, I can tell you that it did far more for me than simply teach me how to kill people.
Serving in the military is called "serving" for a reason. You seem more interested in what it can do for you. Based on what you wrote in your first post, it seems that you are interested in joining as long as it's easy and you don't have to deploy. If that's the case, I'd encourage you to look for something else. This isn't criticism. The military isn't for everyone. If you know you have limits, don't waste their time or yours.
Good luck.
I don't think you have a very good idea about any of the services. And you won't learn about them by observing them at a base.
Judging by the observations you've made, questions your asking, benefits you are seeking, etc etc. I do not think the military is a good idea for you, probably not LE either.
Sure you could join the Coast guard or Air Force, (and don't think for a minute they are any less of a service then the Army or Marines, or "pussies", etc. They are every bit as capable and involved as the other services)
and get by, but you'd be doing it for the wrong reasons, apparently.
Things that should draw you to the services, any of them, are....
A strong desire to serve your country
A strong desire to be part of a team
A strong desire to be part of something bigger then yourself
A strong desire to adhere to and live by the standards of the Military. Things like Duty, Honor, Country. sacrifice, courage, etc are the things that should be foremost in your mind.
The very best Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen, and Coast-Guardsmen, are the one that would do it for free.
As we used to say..."I can't believe they pay me to do this!"
Bob
BTW: there's plenty of tech skills in the Army and Marines, and killin jobs in the AF and Coast Guard
Military Pros and Cons:
Pros:
- Get to serve your country unlike the majority of the rest of our nation's populace.
- Stable income
- 3 hots and a cot
- Risk and Adventure (MOS dependent)
- Cool stories to tell the grandkids (MOS dependent)
- Decent Benefits and privileges.
- Free, or close to free college.
- Good way to motivate yourself to get into shape and stay in shape (MOS dependent)
Cons:
- Risk and Adventure (possible death or permanent disfigurement) (MOS dependent)
- Putting up with the worst irrational personal restrictions you will ever encounter and otherwise being treated as a child for the stupidity of others. (MOS independent)
- Politically motivated leadership making decisions you cannot control that puts your life in danger for the furtherment of their personal career. (MOS independent)
- A real chance you will risk your own life to fight for some other country's freedom that will have little or nothing to do with protecting your own family and country. (MOS dependent)
This list was designed to be somewhat sarcastic (although truth exists in all sarcasm). My recommendation is that if you decide upon a full-time military career, go through OCS or ROTC and get commissioned as an officer so that you at least have a small chance of controlling your own destiny and maximizing your income. It's better to be a part of the problem than to have no control over it.
If you are wishy washy, think about the Guard or Reserve component. It allows you to experience some of what the military offers without completely giving up your civilian life. If it turns out to be something you like, you can always sign up full-time, if it's not something you end up enjoying, you can ride out your time easier. Troll away fellow veterans.
If you become an officer, then you'll have to do things, like...
Talk to them
Eat with them
Act like them
be around them,
you get the idea.
A far as the Guard or Reserve, look at the optempo lately, they are giving up plenty of their civvie life.
Do not marginalize their service.
If your being wishy washy, don't bother.
Bob
Well since your thinking about why not just join? It's only four years of your life and since you said you want to join the Coast Guard, you probably won't be deployed unless you are in a certain kind of unit/mos. You'd be surprised how quick four years go by. The military isn't for everyone, it'll be a different lifestyle. You have to ask yourself are up for it? Good luck
parishioner
05-24-09, 23:55
If PTSD is one of your concerns, it might not be the right thing for you.
Thats part of why they call it a sacrifice and thats why everyone(most everyone) is so thankful that we have men and women on the front line that recognize all of these risks and do it anyway.
Thats the difference. Everyone is scared but soldiers accept the possibilities and get on with the mission. Do you think you are a capable of doing this?
Northerntier1
05-25-09, 02:40
If you chose to join the military regardless of what branch, look at the pay charts and compare it to what you earn now. If that young lady is unwilling to move to were ever you end up consider her gone. I seen to many young guys show up and at first you hear how she loves me then later it did not work out.
I have been in the Air Force a long time I left active duty went guard and then came back to active duty. If you chose to come in you need to find a way to stay physicaly fit and not be fat. Expect to sacrifice alot but if you want to travel and see the world the Air Force is a great way to do it. You will not make much money at first and be treated like a child till you finish your training. Once you learn your job and earn the trust of those you work with it is a good life. Chose your job you want and tell the recruter you will not come in unless you get that job. If not you might not like what you end up with. Military police travel alot and work long hours but you can get some very good training that will carry over to civilian law enforcment.
You will have a good group of people to work with and I recomend putting in for orders outside the United State's while you are still young. Korea and Italy was fun, good food and good people.
R Moran, JTB0311,and jman hit it square on the head with their replies. I personally wouldn't want your type in any unit I am in. You would be the one constantly bitching and complaining; bringing down unit moral and cohesion. Further more you have what appears to be a risk averse personality; a quite office that includes a desk with rounded corners and devoid of all pointy objects might be better suited for you.
Erik L
Glad you posted this so close to Memorial Day, it makes me appreciate this great day even more.
GLP,
I served 5 years in the U.S Army as a grunt and just about 4 years in the Coast Guard as a Gunners' Mate. If you are in the slightest way risk averse don't join the military and don't go LE because risk is something you wear everyday when you wake up. If you are looking to join so that life will be easier and Uncle Sugar will take care of you that is the wrong answer. The people that I saw who joined with that attitude are generally the ones that didn't go far or had problems.
People join for a variety of reasons, but there has to that desire to serve, to be an achiever and be something. If you are looking at meal ticket, steady paycheck and structured living go join the Peace Corps. The whole thing about what you would do if you came home missing limbs, or with PTSD, etc.. is ridiculous. Take a guess how many peace officers are killed, crippled or maimed every year. PTSD is also not something exclusively related to being in the military either. Just about anyone can get it if they suffer a "traumatic" event.
There is a lot more to the Army and Marines than just "Kill, Kill, Kill". I miss the time that I spent in the infantry and the experience as a whole was something that I'll never forget. I know many people who served in the infantry and other combat related MOS's and they went on to become very successful
As for the whole girlfriend thing I'll say this. I know many of guys who put their lives on hold, or didn't take a certain path because of a girlfriend only to be dumped by them later and the opportunity lost. Since you're not married you need to think about what will be best for YOU. If she truly supports you and you two care about each other it will work out.
RogerinTPA
05-25-09, 08:32
I don't think you have a very good idea about any of the services. And you won't learn about them by observing them at a base.
Judging by the observations you've made, questions your asking, benefits you are seeking, etc etc. I do not think the military is a good idea for you, probably not LE either.
Sure you could join the Coast guard or Air Force, (and don't think for a minute they are any less of a service then the Army or Marines, or "pussies", etc. They are every bit as capable and involved as the other services)
and get by, but you'd be doing it for the wrong reasons, apparently.
Things that should draw you to the services, any of them, are....
A strong desire to serve your country
A strong desire to be part of a team
A strong desire to be part of something bigger then yourself
A strong desire to adhere to and live by the standards of the Military. Things like Duty, Honor, Country. sacrifice, courage, etc are the things that should be foremost in your mind.
The very best Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen, and Coast-Guardsmen, are the one that would do it for free.
As we used to say..."I can't believe they pay me to do this!"
Bob
BTW: there's plenty of tech skills in the Army and Marines, and killin jobs in the AF and Coast Guard
Well said Bob.
Too many people don't read the fine print that reads, "in case of war, you're going" The military is filled with people who joined for the wrong reason, mostly selfish, and then bitch and whine about it for their entire tour of duty. They, IMHO, hurt the military more than any enemy can. Whining is a disease, brings down morale, affects unit cohesion and the ability to accomplish the mission or task at hand. It will spread through the unit like a plaque, if it isn't check with an on the spot ass chewing (Which I handed out generously, then tried to transfer or move them to non essential task, away from the real soldiers).That's why one of my biggest pet peeves is that I cannot stand a whiny ass man.
If you are risk adverse and want to look out for yourself, complain ad nauseaum, have a cushy job and great benefits, I highly recommend Civil Service.
"Whining" is unacceptable..
"Bitching" is perfectably acceptable, and expected.:D
I once had a 1sgt, who had more tabs then the Army would allow him to wear, multiple combat tours, 173d ABN combat patch, etc. He used to say....
"Bitching is good for ya, just as long as your doing what your told, while your bitching"
Its a fine line for sure....
Bob
RogerinTPA
05-25-09, 09:06
"Whining" is unacceptable..
"Bitching" is perfectably acceptable, and expected.:D
I once had a 1sgt, who had more tabs then the Army would allow him to wear, multiple combat tours, 173d ABN combat patch, etc. He used to say....
"Bitching is good for ya, just as long as your doing what your told, while your bitching"
Its a fine line for sure....
Bob
Agreed. It is a serviceman's right and America's favorite past time, well ahead of Baseball. ;)
Perhaps its the Holiday, but...
I notice the OP has not responded as of late.. imagine posting this in the same manner over at LF:eek:
The idea that LE has it safer, or sleeps safely in their beds at night, is off the mark also..
There is a reason NYPD makes its officers change in and out of uniform at the precinct. They are required to carry a gun and badge, and be fit for duty at all times.
The OP age is a factor also...
Many a 17 or 18 yo Joe entered the service for the "college money"( that used to be the biggest insult you could throw at a GI). At that age, its a bit easier to "mold" them, they eventually understand Military way of life and come to embrace it, and excel. Or they hate it and get out.
When I was 24yo I was already a SSG, Infantry Squad leader, Master rated Parachutist, and had my CIB.
For someone who is 24 y/o, it will be hard to be a Pvt. and take orders from guys younger then them.(that's one of the reasons I have not gone back in).
It will be harder for them to accept the Military way of life, and make the sacrifices of things he's already enjoyed as an adult for some time.
Another reason to join before college.
On this Memorial Day, to all those that have, and are serving...Thanks.
Bob
I wish I never got out.
maybe I should have used whining or sea lawyering instead of bitching, as I do agree bitching is expected. But for those who haven't been there wouldn't know that ;-)
looking back at the original posters other threads lead to other interesting reading.
If you become an officer, then you'll have to do things, like...
Talk to them
Eat with them
Act like them
be around them,
you get the idea.
A far as the Guard or Reserve, look at the optempo lately, they are giving up plenty of their civvie life.
Do not marginalize their service.
If your being wishy washy, don't bother.
Bob
I'm not marginalizing reserve service, the Guard happens to be the branch I served under and deployed with. The one concern this young man has about serving is having to move frequently, and the Guard or Reserve is a great way to serve right from one stable location (your home town), and even though you may get deployed it still allows you less interruption to your current way of life than full time service. Especially for your spouse/girlfriend. Also, if I could have done it all over again, I would have gone with ROTC or OCS which would have perhaps allowed me more financial flexibility to stay in for a longer career. Nothing wrong with enlisting (I was a Staff Sergeant), but that's my advice if you want to maximize your potential.
[B]
looking back at the original posters other threads lead to other interesting reading.
He posts in some of the other websites I lurk at. He tends to post very similar things there and receives pretty much the same answers.
EX :http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210077
Going4Broke
05-25-09, 13:04
Can't make up your mind for you, but when I was a senior in HS I was considering going into the AF and took all the tests required. They came back and offered me any job I wanted to which I chose midair refueling. I thought about it for awhile that year and decided not to go into the service. The reason was that my ultimate goal was to fly and after figuring out that it was no guarantee I would get into flight school, but if I did I would owe them a minimum of 12 years. I thought that missing out on 12 years of deer hunting and being away from family was too much a scarifice and that I would do my flight training on my own instead.
Well, I have to say that a few years down the road found me regretting that decision BIG TIME. Not for 1 or 2 reasons, but for a multitude of them. The service is one of the best things any individual can do for themselves and their country. You will get the best training anywhere for whatever it is you choose and although it will be difficult at times, you will get through it and never regret it IMO. Do yourself a favor. . . . . do it! Don't walk away from the chance and live to regret it like I did.
Well, losing about 50 pounds may be a decent test to see how much you want to do it. I talked about putting myself in a position to join for several years, but only now that I've dropped about 30 pounds this year do I feel this is at all close to a reality.
Now, I've still got reservations too (loans, not using an expensive prof. degree) but if you think you want it, start making moves to get there. You'll probably discover pretty quickly how much it is worth to you. But, from advice I've received from people recently, the idea of what the military can do for you professionally is probably not the strongest attitude to have. My concern is that my most likely military destination is an entirely support position, and I thus question whether or not that is the most significant level of service I could give (as I've not served in any capacity, I mean no offense to those who fill support roles).
I have no doubt that many, many people who joined the military solely to advance themselves are very valuable service members. But given people like me and you have some work to do just to get into a position to pursue military service, I think motivation is that much more important.
EriKL,
Its all in good fun. For sure its a very fine line between the two, and only guys who've been on the 30th klick of a 10 klick movement would know the difference.
B52U,
I guess I came off as directing that straight at you, but it was just a general comment, as stuff like that is often heard.
Good natured ribbing from other services is one thing, but I often hear derogatory comments about Guard, Reserves and various branches and MOS's in the Military by people who have never served. So sometimes I go off a bit quick.
Again, he's 24, if he wanted to join, he would've by now. The war has been on for awhile now.
Its different then the guy who joined at 42, when the war started.
In general, guys who go in asking about and seeking benefits, advancement, etc etc are the ones who have and cause trouble.
If you want to be an O, it should because of a desire and ability to lead men, not a desire to be treated better, or get more perks.
I believe you shouldn't be allowed to be an officer until you've spent a few years as an Enlisted man.
When I first signed the papers, I was 17. I had to have my parents sign for me. They were dead set against it. I listened to my Uncles who had served in WW2 and Korea, and signed up to be a small arms repairman, and got the college fun. It satisfied my parents wants, for me to go to college and learn a skill while I was in. Not completely, and they still weren't happy, butt they gave in and signed the papers, that was early in my senior year.
While waiting, I decided, that wasn't what I wanted to do. I wanted to be SF, Ranger, etc. So I re-negotiated my contract, and got Infantry with an unassigned Airborne slot. The best decision in my life, bar none.
There is nothing wrong with using the military as a stepping stone to "bigger and better" things. But it should be a side benefit, and not the major purpose.
Bob
I never did go to college, or make Ranger or SF:(
Same here. The day I turned 17 the recruiter came to my house and my parents signed the paperwork. I left for basic 34 days later.
EriKL,
Its all in good fun. For sure its a very fine line between the two, and only guys who've been on the 30th klick of a 10 klick movement would know the difference.
B52U,
I guess I came off as directing that straight at you, but it was just a general comment, as stuff like that is often heard.
Good natured ribbing from other services is one thing, but I often hear derogatory comments about Guard, Reserves and various branches and MOS's in the Military by people who have never served. So sometimes I go off a bit quick.
Again, he's 24, if he wanted to join, he would've by now. The war has been on for awhile now.
Its different then the guy who joined at 42, when the war started.
In general, guys who go in asking about and seeking benefits, advancement, etc etc are the ones who have and cause trouble.
If you want to be an O, it should because of a desire and ability to lead men, not a desire to be treated better, or get more perks.
I believe you shouldn't be allowed to be an officer until you've spent a few years as an Enlisted man.
When I first signed the papers, I was 17. I had to have my parents sign for me. They were dead set against it. I listened to my Uncles who had served in WW2 and Korea, and signed up to be a small arms repairman, and got the college fun. It satisfied my parents wants, for me to go to college and learn a skill while I was in. Not completely, and they still weren't happy, butt they gave in and signed the papers, that was early in my senior year.
While waiting, I decided, that wasn't what I wanted to do. I wanted to be SF, Ranger, etc. So I re-negotiated my contract, and got Infantry with an unassigned Airborne slot. The best decision in my life, bar none.
There is nothing wrong with using the military as a stepping stone to "bigger and better" things. But it should be a side benefit, and not the major purpose.
Bob
I never did go to college, or make Ranger or SF:(
GLP,
The responses you get may very well be from the way you worded your original question. If you had just simply said, "Hey, I'm thinking of joining the service. What are some advantages or disadvantages in the different branches?" Instead you came off as asking what we can give you. Yes we. I pay my taxes to pay for it, am a citizen, and serve so I consider myself part owner. I tell new Sailors Welcome to my Navy. It's my Navy, but I'm willing to share it.
I love it when new guys or girls join. Everyone one of them are writing a blank check to Uncle Sam. It's a blank check that could say 8 years of service, an arm or leg, a wheelchair for life, death or worse. I don't care what branch they join, what job they choose, or if they have deployed or not. They all write that check.
As much as I respect those kids coming to my unit the one thing I can't stand and don't tolerate are the high maintenance, prim a dona, what are you going to do for me types. Piss on them. Some came in for the $20,000.00 bonus. Some for the education benefits, and some just because.
I have administratively separated 8 this last year. Some for unsatisfactory attendance at drill, some for failing the urinalysis, some for unrelated criminal charges, and even 1 for failing to pay off his Government Travel Credit Card. If they do not serve for the right reasons I will know it. It will show. They won't take care of their business and I will send them away when they fail in their obligations.
For those with the desire to serve and the willingness to make sacrifices I will do almost anything in my power to protect, assist, train, and, encourage. It's more than respect I feel for them. It's almost a parental feeling towards these new members of our military. They are family.
I might be way off center but I believe being able to serve my Nation is one of the greatest honors I will receive on this earth. I joined at 37 and have never received a monetary bonus. I had to get a waiver just to join. I missed my original opportunity. I had a wife, kids, a career. I got lucky and realized it before more years slipped away. I would like to do 20+ years. I'll actually be 57 if I get my 20 in. Who knows whether I'll be able to get 20 in? But until they force me out I'll continue to serve as long as I can. It's not a responsibility, it's a privilege.
If you want to share that privilege and honor I'll welcome you. If not, no worries. Only you can make the decision. Just make sure you make it for the right reasons.
RogerinTPA
05-25-09, 16:34
If you want to be an O, it should because of a desire and ability to lead men, not a desire to be treated better, or get more perks.
Exactly...and if you do decide to become an O, then you better be leading by example and from the front. Never make your men do something you are unwilling to do yourself. My junior officers used to get pissed when I made them perform the same job as the EMs, instead of standing around.
I believe you shouldn't be allowed to be an officer until you've spent a few years as an Enlisted man. :(
Indeed. But there are some officers that can and have been groomed to be good officers by top notch NCOs.
RH,
we are tracking...
Unfortunately, a lot of Officers do not follow that example. Have poor examples in charge of them, & have nothing to go off of. I've even seen/heard Capt.'s tell there Lt's to not listen to there NCO's:confused:
Many of them believe in their superiority based on education, position, etc. It was always fun to watch when they ran into an educated Pvt. Or VN vet platoon Sgt.
1stLT: "well Sgt, this is how we did it in ROTC/West Point"
SFC: "well Sir, this is how we did it in VN"
I've had a few good Lt's, and believe it or not, they came from West Point. I've had some that were indifferent, and some that just sucked,..... same as enlisted.
Bob
The days of the difference between commissioned and enlisted being about education and intelligence are long gone.
Now it's about what career path you choose, the job you want, and the level of accountability you want for yourself.
Plus of course the pay differences.:D
To the OP. If you do join make sure you do it for the right reasons. I know it's been said already, but make sure you do it for the right reasons. If you do it just for the benefits as your post seems to imply you'll have a miserable time of it.
QuickStrike
05-25-09, 20:17
I thought about joining too.
Nope, I'm too selfish to join. Cannot give up all I've worked for.
GLP Standard
05-25-09, 20:44
I personally wouldn't want your type in any unit I am in. You would be the one constantly bitching and complaining; bringing down unit moral and cohesion. Further more you have what appears to be a risk averse personality; a quite office that includes a desk with rounded corners and devoid of all pointy objects might be better suited for you.
Erik L
Glad you posted this so close to Memorial Day, it makes me appreciate this great day even more.
:rolleyes: I'm glad you can sum me up just by a post I made on a public internet forum sitting behind a computer screen. You don't know me. You don't know what Im capable of or what my intentions or goals are, or whether or not I'd join and "whine" about it a day later. You dont know shit. I wouldn't want your type responding to any threads I create, but since youve already graced my thread with your ignorant presence, f' you very much and have a nice day :)
Anyway, all that aside, I didn't come here for judgment. I don't really give a shit what people think about me. Someones opinion about what I can and cant handle, or will or wont do based on absolutely nothing but their perception of who I am from reading a paragraph or two is of no use to me.
So...after reading the replies that matter (there were quite a few, after sorting through all the bullshit "holier than thou" posts) Ive decided that if I did join, reserve would be best for me. Im about halfway through the process of buying my first house, and I have a good paying job that I can't give up. It wouldn't be wise for me to join full time, at least not right now. Luke AFB is about 20 minutes from here, so it would be a great place for me to try and do my reserve duty if possible.
What kind of things do I need to know about joining the Air Force reserves? What kind of weight requirement do they have? What else can you tell me that will help me? I would want Security Forces or nothing...not sure if OSI has any reserve jobs, but that would be a good ultimate goal, as Im interested in that type of work.
Oh, and btw, Im not doing it for the college money or the sign up bonus. I couldn't care less about either of those. I mentioned college money as a plus in my first post because it would be nice, but its definitely not what Im after. And the sign up bonus you dont even get right away, so I couldnt give two shits about that. I want to do this to better myself, and learn some real life skills that will help me in the real world. Going through basic would definitely get me in shape, which is something I need to do, as well as straighten me out as a human being. I want to be a better person, and do something that matters, and this seems like a good way to make a start in the right direction. I said I dont really want to go over seas and get shot at, or move around a lot, or get killed or lose a limb. Who DOES want to do any of that? I never said I wouldn't do it, so don't take my opening post as me whining about what I might encounter if I ever joined.
He posts in some of the other websites I lurk at. He tends to post very similar things there and receives pretty much the same answers.
EX :http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210077
Wow I just read through that real quick. I forgot I was ever even considering the Coast Guard at one point in time. How the hell did you remember something like that when I don't even remember creating it, or having those feelings? Reading that again 3 years later, I can definitely see where Ive changed and grown since then, and where I still need to improve
Dude,
You asked, we gave you an answer. You gotta be prepared for answers you may not like when you ask questions.
Other then your post, what are we to go on? Read what you wrote, nothing from your last post was in there. Now, after reading some posts here, you wanna be a better person? I ain't buyin it, get butt hurt, cuss me out, I give a shit..
Like I said, when I was your age, I had already led men in combat, what have you been doin the last 6 years, thinkin about it:rolleyes:
You can't give up your job, you want the AF to help you loose weight, whatever, you sound like John Candy in stripes.
Maybe it will make you a better person, I doubt it though. You need to be a good person in the first place. Your reaction in your last posts, speaks a lot about you.
My drill Sgt, told us, The Army won't make a man out of you, your supposed to be one when you get here. If your Daddy failed, we'll send you back to him to try again.
I suggest you think long and hard about what some of us have told you, and don't get pissy about it.
Bob
SeriousStudent
05-25-09, 21:31
To the OP:
You asked a question. You received answers. You did not like the answers.
The military is sort of like that, in a lot of ways. Except when you happen to tell your squad leader, LPO, or someone else "F you very much", you'll be lucky to keep your teeth.
This is coming from a guy that enlisted at 26 with two bachelor's degrees, earned a master's degree on active duty, and was Marine Corporal, with an MOS of 0331. That's M-60 machine gunner.
I got no bonus, no college plan, nothing but lots of funny stories, some sleepless nights, and a pair of enemy marksmanship badges.
I'm reading this while drinking a glass of Scotch, raised in memory to a member of my squad. He's buried in a National Cemetary in California. I folded the flag on his casket. Today is Memorial Day, so I am having a drink. But to this day, I cannot listen to "Amazing Grace" played on a set of bagpipes. Just a fact.
Another fact: A bunch of people with real-world experience, most of it at the pointy end of the stick, are telling you something. That's generally referred to as a clue.
Here's another clue. In the military, when you screw up, you often kill other people, that good people care about. I honest do not care what you decide to do. But please refrain from calling honorable men names, who have served their country well, under ddifficult circumstance. That is what they want to avoid, the death of people that they love. A leader loves his men, even as he may have to sacrifice them. That is why command is the greatest, and hardest thing a person can do.
You say that we do not know you. I can tell you right now that you certainly do not know us.
And I am just about certain you never will.
Good luck in whatever you do. If you do pick the military, honestly ponder what you were told.
SeriousStudent
05-25-09, 21:32
Bob, you took the words right out of my mouth, as I was typing them.
As always sir, well-said.
GLP,
You've been bouncing around the internet asking these same questions for 3 years?
I think you've probably over thought this if you haven't found an answer by now. Get off the fence. Make a decision and live by it. Either way. But make it for yourself and your family. Commit, either way and live with it.
It's not about justifying it. It's about service. Service to your community, your nation, and your God. It's not for most people. But it should be. Taking the population of our country now the total armed forces today doesn't equal more than a percent or 2.
I forgot I was ever even considering the Coast Guard at one point in time.
You mentioned the Coast Guard yesterday when you created this thread.
As for the rest, you asked, and we answered - sorry if we didn't give you the answers you were hoping for. All the information we had was what you provided to us. Maybe next time, you could explain your position better. If you go into the military, it would be good if you grow a thicker skin than what you've displayed here.
Whatever you decide, good luck.
parishioner
05-26-09, 00:26
I said I dont really want to go over seas and get shot at, or move around a lot, or get killed or lose a limb.
What were you planning on doing if you don't feel like moving around a lot? Sit in a la-z-boy?
You should really think long and hard about this.
ETA: Im not trying to bring you down, just trying to help
I like his nine to five, weekends off impression of LE. Where he lives there must not be any shift work, callouts, mandatory OT, etc.; I want to live there, I might see my wife from time to time.
GLP Standard
05-26-09, 00:57
What were you planning on doing if you don't feel like moving around a lot? Sit in a la-z-boy?
You should really think long and hard about this.
ETA: Im not trying to bring you down, just trying to help
Move around a lot ie...live in different places. I mentioned Im buying a house. That doesnt work when Im overseas 8 months out of the year.
I like his nine to five, weekends off impression of LE. Where he lives there must not be any shift work, callouts, mandatory OT, etc.; I want to live there, I might see my wife from time to time.
You guys are funny lol
...can I get some answers my questions in my previous post before this one please?
parishioner
05-26-09, 01:02
[QUOTE=GLP Standard;376607]Move around a lot ie...live in different places. I mentioned Im buying a house. That doesnt work when Im overseas 8 months out of the year.[QUOTE]
Gotcha.
...can I get some answers my questions in my previous post before this one please?
Ya know what? NO! you cant get anymore answers. They won't be ehat you wanna hear.
Come hear demanding answers, try that with your Drill Sgt or Squad leader...you got a lot to learn.
Bob
Move around a lot ie...live in different places. I mentioned Im buying a house. That doesnt work when Im overseas 8 months out of the year.
I bought a house and guess what? I'm not in it right now. So, what point are you trying to make here? It seems like you're trying to talk yourself out of signing up.
:rolleyes: I'm glad you can sum me up just by a post I made on a public internet forum sitting behind a computer screen. You don't know me. You don't know what Im capable of or what my intentions or goals are, or whether or not I'd join and "whine" about it a day later. You dont know shit. I wouldn't want your type responding to any threads I create, but since youve already graced my thread with your ignorant presence, f' you very much and have a nice day :)
Listen up child, DO NOT DARE to cheapen what my brothers have bled and died for. Don't join and don't you dare ever speak to a veteran this way again. He has done more for this country than you ever could or will. He does in fact know "shit" because he has seen thousands of little turds like you join to "learn a skill" or get money. If you want money go to the welfare office, they write checks to undeserving piles of crap all the time. If you want to learn a skill go work at frickin Midas and learn how to change oil. The military is for those that want to serve the people of this country not themselves. If you want to be a cop then go fill out an application and take a test and be a cop I think that you'll find that just like the military the police is about service and is not easy either. The good thing about that is that they can get rid of you a lot faster after you fail. If you think that this reception is bad then try going to SOCNET with your attitude.
RogerinTPA
05-26-09, 10:09
GPL
If you haven't found out already, life is unfair as hell. You got answers to your questions by men who have been there and done that.
You have received a large amount of unbiased opinion, based on what you wrote. The military is not for everyone.
It is the most unselfish act that a young man can make if he truly has a desire to serve.
You will be under a constant barrage of extraordinary dilemmas & situations that can and will be overwhelming at times.
Whether you can successfully deal with it will be up to the individual.
The military has no time to prod, coddle, give hugs to people that decided they made a BIG mistake, the moment they get off the bus at basic training or the recruit depot.
No one wants a half assed individual in their unit and I mean NO ONE. It requires a determined mindset and a conviction.
What ever you decide to do, I suggest you make a decision, stick with it, and live your life as righteously & productively as you can. In other words, be a man.
Smuckatelli
05-26-09, 11:34
GPL,
The longer you hold your breath waiting for the crosshair or iron sights to be on target..the less chance you will hit the target. Pull the trigger, stop worrying about counseling fears of death or injury. If you feel the need to serve, then serve; housing, women, comfort, money and everything else is secondary.
Take a sh!t or get off the sh!tter.
Puddle Pirate
05-26-09, 11:39
GLP:
I went back and read your opening post again.
You got some very solid advice from those who have already posted.
That said, I gotta tell you, that if you think that the Air Force or Coast Guard is less hazardous then the Army or Marines, you have some self-education to do.
The services functions and missions are different. They have to be.
From my own experience. Entered in 74 and retired in 99.
During that time I spent 12 years or so at sea. Some ships, 30 days out and a week or 2 in. Others, 90 to 120 days deployed with a couple of weeks in year round. Spent considerable time in the Bering Sea to the Antarctic. Been initiated at the equator. Also been through the "ditch" a couple of times.
I spent considerable time at SAR (small boat Search and Rescue Stations). On duty 48 hours with 24 off. Average of 3 SAR calls per in all weather conditions. Blowing snow, sleet, ice, cold, wet seas like mountains - just plain NASTY. Going out when every instinct tells you that your actions are insane in a small boat (40 foot and 44 foot MLB (self righting motor life boat) and being tossed about like a cork. Slamming your body into steel bulkheads, equipment that leave you bruised and bleeding. Been sea sick as hell at times - throwing up what little stomach acid you have left and continuing the mission or task at hand. So sick that all you want to do is curl up and die, but, you have a job to do, and if you and your crew doesn't do it, you don't come back.
Going out for vessels are on fire, sinking, have injured crews. Facing the possibility of the vessel capsizing, hazardous chemical exposure, you name it.
During my service, I did many years of federal law enforcement, from fisheries, immigration, safety inspections, smugglers, and drug smugglers who WILL AND DO SHOOT AT YOU. Including one drug smuggler with armed M72 LAWs rockets.
And to top it all off, if you think the Coast Guard does not go to war - much - do a simple Google Search for "Coast Guard at War". Nuff said.
IF after considerable soul searching, you decide that this is what you want to do, you have some other obstacles in your way to get through:
a. Weight Standards: You are overweight. You will have to lose and keep off considerable weight. Even after you are in, if you exceed weight standards - you are likely GONE - discharged.
b. ASVAB Testing: Coast Guard still requires a minimum AFQT score of 40 (least I checked) High school diploma - required. Few GED entries and last I checked required some college. -- Check with a recruiter for up to date info.
c. Background/Criminal. No felonies - never wavered. Drug use - forget about it. Misdemeanor arrests/convictions - not likely that you will get in. The Coast Guard in addition to being an armed military service, is also a federal law enforcement agency. Petty Officers (E-4 - up) and Officers are federal law enforcement officers under statute.
d. Application Process: Don't look for Coast Guard Recruiters to be looking for you. You better look for them and sell yourself as a person that has something to offer - not the other way around. We don't take many people. Recruiters are spread out thin.
e. Recruit Training: Tough. They will stress you physically and mentally. If you can't cut it there, you have no business at a SAR station.
f. You mentioned buying a house. Forget about it. You transfer every 3 to 4 years - sometimes more often then that.
g. Finances: More often then not, there is NOT government housing where you go. You get a certain amount in pay for housing - everything beyond that is your responsibility. Frankly, you don't make much. Plan on being poor - it's a fact of life.
h. Family separations: My last 4 tours were as a Geo-Bachelor, where I left my family in another location.
On the positive side: I loved it. I would have done it for free. The job satisfaction was immense. I made a difference. THAT is what it was worth to me.
It is a brotherhood. I served with some of the finest people I will ever know. I also lost some of my brothers. It's a loss not easy to deal with sometimes. Some of my brothers/sisters I served with again at other stations/ships. Old friends reunited.
It's small - smaller then the NY City Police Department.
I don't tell you this stuff to blow my own horn. Just to give you an idea of what you are facing.
Remember. There is no shame in not serving. This life is not for everyone.
Here is what I am getting from all of this. Several months back the OP also made a post about joining LE. When several members pointed out to him that his previous choices in life (marijuana usage) over an extended period when he was younger would probably disqualify him he seemed to get upset.
People also pointed out that LE is also dangerous and demanding as well. He was given some advice and from what I can see he discarded it.
I think that this thread has run its' course in my opinion. He has had plenty of time to make a decision, but fails to do so because that "lifestyle" will interfere with his way of life or it's not convenient for him. Anything else that we say will do nothing to change his mind.
Note to OP: A "Hurt Feelings Report" will be required.
When I read your OP and follow-up, all I read was "me me me"..."I have a house" (so do I), "I want to get in shape" (do it now), "I can't go anywhere because my GF will break-up with me...even though we can't stand each other most days" (dump her now--she's deadweight)...college money (for me)....experience (for me)....get out get LE job (for me)....Army and Marines are too dangerous....AF and CG are cushy...
You can't make a decision as you appear to have been contemplating this for some time.
I'm writing this from Afghanistan...one of my AF Lts was killed last week by an IED....1Lt Roslyn Schulte, USAF...on a convoy between Kabul and Bagram Air Base on 20 May 09. Tell her how easy it is to be in the AF.
I've been deployed with the Army (2004, 1 CAV; 1997, 1 CAV, 10 MTN) and the Marines (2003, I MEF)...even the Navy (2001, USS Blue Ridge)....frankly, based on my experience and your posts, you'd end up being one of those whiney Airmen who won't listen....your "ideas" are better, because it's all about YOU.
It's called Service Before Self.....(you may want to Google that)
It's called Sacrifice (look it up)
If these words are not in your vocabulary or have not been practiced--please look elsewhere.
Harsh? Maybe...but then again, I've seen/met people who have said the very same things who have been deployed---and I couldn't wait until they rotated home....either walking, or shipped home in a box. Morale (that is, lack of it) is a killer....your attitude, as gleaned from your posts, will hurt your unit.
Think again why you think you want to join.
GLP:
I spent considerable time at SAR (small boat Search and Rescue Stations). On duty 48 hours with 24 off. Average of 3 SAR calls per in all weather conditions. Blowing snow, sleet, ice, cold, wet seas like mountains - just plain NASTY. Going out when every instinct tells you that your actions are insane in a small boat (40 foot and 44 foot MLB (self righting motor life boat) and being tossed about like a cork. Slamming your body into steel bulkheads, equipment that leave you bruised and bleeding. Been sea sick as hell at times - throwing up what little stomach acid you have left and continuing the mission or task at hand. So sick that all you want to do is curl up and die, but, you have a job to do, and if you and your crew doesn't do it, you don't come back.
Going out for vessels are on fire, sinking, have injured crews. Facing the possibility of the vessel capsizing, hazardous chemical exposure, you name it.
During my service, I did many years of federal law enforcement, from fisheries, immigration, safety inspections, smugglers, and drug smugglers who WILL AND DO SHOOT AT YOU. Including one drug smuggler with armed M72 LAWs rockets.
It is a brotherhood. I served with some of the finest people I will ever know. I also lost some of my brothers. It's a loss not easy to deal with sometimes. Some of my brothers/sisters I served with again at other stations/ships. Old friends reunited.
Chief, have you been keeping up on our fellow Coasties passing the BASIC UNDERWATER DEMOLITIONS/SEAL AND SEAL QUALIFICATION TRAINING? Last I heard we still got three in the game. One of these day's I'm gonna type up a Coast Guard motivational poster showing us in digicam with the heading "So Easy A Coastie Can Do it!" I know I jacked the thread a bit, but if the OP only knew, there's no way he'd handle the responsibilty in the CG. With as few of us as there are, even boots have to be taught to lead if the Coxswain/Surfman go down. With a guy like this trying to get in I'm glad i retire in July. I sure miss my 44373! -WW
The OP isn't eligible for LE work with any Agency I'm aware of. Some of you may remember that the OP admitted to smoking pot somewhat regularly for years in another one of his threads about wanting to be on the Sheriff's office SWAT team. (I find this puzzling as he appears to be quite risk averse.) I agree with many of the other replies here. :rolleyes:
I don't even think the OP is eligible for Military service unless he lies about his drug use.
Just wanted to make sure you're aware. If you join the Air Force with the intent of becoming OSI, you must enter in a different career field first. If you come in as security forces then expect to work about 14 hour shift and getting deployed a lot. Once you've been in for a certain time (at least until you're 3rd stripe) then you can try to apply for an OSI slot. Another thing you need to know is that if you're in a career field that's low manned, the AF may not release you from that career field. I'm not sure if security forces falls into that category.
SeriousStudent
05-26-09, 17:58
......
That said, I gotta tell you, that if you think that the Air Force or Coast Guard is less hazardous then the Army or Marines, you have some self-education to do.
........
Indeed. I have a great deal of respect for an organization that has as an unofficial motto: "You have to go out. You don't have to come back."
I recently read the book "Kill Bin Laden", written by an Army officer that helped lead the hunt at Tora Bora. He singled out for very high praise the Air Force enlisted men that served as forward air controllers.
From an organization that has among its former members, men such as Mr. Vickers and Mr. Howe, those words are a very high compliment.
GLP
You are kidding yourself if you think joining reserve Air Force SP unit means you won't be deployed. My local Air National Guard unit was activated for civilian Airport Security for over a year , had a 1 month stand down, deployed to Bosnia for a year, 3 month stand down, deployed to Iraq for 15 months, 6 month stand down and getting ready to be deployed to Afghanistan.
I did 2 years Army National Guard as a Combat MP in a Rapid Deployment Unit and then I did 6 years active duty Air Force Security Police overseas. I was 22 years old when I joined the Air Force. It was excellent training and experience for me. The downside is I had friends who were killed, and THAT is what makes Memorial Day special for me and every other veteran! (To absent friends!)
If you can't handle the kind and wise words posted here, how are you going to handle some drill sergeant getting up close and personal with you and listing all your shortcomings in what can only be described as loud and abusive language (then again, my drill sergeants never called me anything my mom hadn't already called me!). YOU will have to talk the units you are thinking of joining and YOU will have to make the choice yourself.
You may also want to re-think the Coast Guard...even those comfortable tech jobs get deployed. A buddy of mine was a radar and weather tech, he was deployed to Antarticia for a year followed by another year on a very special island in the Pacific (total of 22 men on island, NO women!)
I always told my guys, that while we are training day in and day out, the Coast Guard is out doing it for real everyday.
The Coast guard wouldn't even talk to me, after I got out of the Army.
We all got out shitbags and our Hero's.
Bob
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