View Full Version : TX Woman asked to remove 'offensive' US flag!?
CarlosDJackal
05-29-09, 08:07
I would have told the "african immigrant" to go pound sand or to go back to the Sudan. I'm an immigrant myself, but this really pisses me a f*** off!! I hope she sues them for violating her First Amendment Rights. :mad:
ARTICLE (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522659,00.html)
Texas Woman Told to Remove 'Offensive' American Flag From Office
Debbie McLucas comes from a patriotic family – her husband and both of her sons served in the U.S. military, and her daughter is currently deployed to Iraq on her second tour of duty as a combat medic.
So when McLucas arrived at work at a Texas hospital last Friday, she was stunned to be told that the Stars and Stripes she had hung in her office in advance of Memorial Day were offensive, and that the flag had been removed.
“I got into work, I was met by my supervisor and told that there had been multiple complaints, that people found the flag very offensive and it had been taken down," McLucas told FOXNews.com.
"I went to the office to retrieve it and found the flag wrapped around the pole, sitting in the corner on the ground. I was speechless."
McLucas, a supervisor at Kindred Hospital in Mansfield, Texas, had displayed the 3-by-5-foot flag in the office she shares with the hospital’s three other supervisors. McLucas said one of her colleagues, a woman who immigrated to the United States from Africa 14 years ago, complained about the flag to upper management, and the hospital decided to take down the flag.
"I was told that as long as my flag offended one person, it would be taken down," McLucas said.
She said the hospital told her that the American flag flying outside the building would have to suffice. "I was told, ‘There is a flag hanging out front, everyone can see that one. Is that not enough?’"
No, she said, that wasn't enough.
"It is more than I can even fathom, that you would find the American flag offensive, in America," McLucas said.
A Kindred Healthcare spokeswoman did not return calls for comment. Kindred issued a press release stating, “Kindred Hospital Mansfield has a great deal of appreciation for the service that many of our employees and their families have given to their country. We honor our veterans and active military through a variety of benefits and service programs. This was an isolated incident between two employees that we are working to resolve amicably.”
The statement went on to explain: “The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up.”
And it will go back up and stay up, McLucas said.
"I do think they're trying to do the right thing. I have no reason to believe the flag won't remain there as long as I'm employed."
When will the American populace wake the Hades up? This crap has been nurtured for some time now via Congress critters, the White House, the ACLU and other NGOs. Yet America slumbers on... It's not going to get any better without any effort from our part.
Simply.........amazing. What country are we in again?
Since when do people think it is their "right" to not be offended? And who the hell gets offended in the US by someone flying the US flag? I just see this as one more reason the US isn't going to make it much longer.
Wayne Dobbs
05-29-09, 09:09
Maybe that immigrant would be happier in the land of her birth...
decodeddiesel
05-29-09, 09:21
Maybe that immigrant would be happier in the land of her birth...
What I was thinking. I seriously doubt she would be a "hospital supervisor" if that were the case.
On a similar note I did notice I was the only one on my block to fly an American flag on my house this past Memorial Day. Damn sure they had some barbecues and kegs going though. :rolleyes: Sometimes I really wonder why the f*** I spent 2.5 years of my life in Iraq for these people.
this story is kind of refreshing to me--it re-enforces my beleif that there some people more stupid than i am. don't this just make you want to shake someone,, and put a boot up their ass????
I can't believe that the hospital management was that stupid
that's beyond ridiculous
Thomas M-4
05-29-09, 09:41
My wife works in financial Aid at a college and was told that she had to take down her flag. Funny thing you walk down the hall and in almost every office you see a shrine to Barack Obama :mad::rolleyes:
I told here she needed to put up a shrine to George W Bush
http://www.kindredmansfield.com/BuildPage.asp?Pageid=3
Do as I just did and visit the link above which leads to the Hospitals comments page. I left a tactful message letting them know exactly how I felt about this sort of decision on the part of the Management staff for the facility.
I too am outraged that this is allowed to go on in.
I may be a bit off topic but recommend every patriot to spend a few hours each Memorial Day among the thousands of flags flying at your nearest national cemetary.
I believe that I would have told the offended person that if she didn't like what that flag represented then go back to her home country and try to make a living on the wages that she would earn there. I signed a blank check to the U.S. government for 4 1/2 years to protect the flag and what it stood for. Why should we bow to these people when thier feelings get hurt? GROW UP and get a life.
diving dave
05-29-09, 10:35
Hmmm I wonder if the hospital would have taken down an African flag if the other lady had that pinned up in her office....:rolleyes:
Well reading this I just put up a big american flag in my office and one in the foyer.
http://www.kindredmansfield.com/BuildPage.asp?Pageid=3
Do as I just did and visit the link above which leads to the Hospitals comments page. I left a tactful message letting them know exactly how I felt about this sort of decision on the part of the Management staff for the facility.
+1 I've already done that as well.
Perhaps the hospital should not pay the employees that complain with US Currency...after all it has "The United States of America" and "In God We Trust" on it...
CarlosDJackal
05-29-09, 14:42
What I was thinking. I seriously doubt she would be a "hospital supervisor" if that were the case.
On a similar note I did notice I was the only one on my block to fly an American flag on my house this past Memorial Day. Damn sure they had some barbecues and kegs going though. :rolleyes: Sometimes I really wonder why the f*** I spent 2.5 years of my life in Iraq for these people.
Welcome home and thank you for your service, bro!!
Don't think of it as if you wasted that time for these morons. Think of it as you did your serving for yourself, your loved ones, and all the good people out there who show their appreciation by buying you a drink or a meal if they knew what you had done.
I run into a surprising number of them each time I'm in my uniform. Cheer up America, there are still a lot of good, patriotic people out there. They just don't make as much of a fuss about it as we'd like them to. :)
CarlosDJackal
05-29-09, 15:20
http://www.kindredmansfield.com/BuildPage.asp?Pageid=3
Do as I just did and visit the link above which leads to the Hospitals comments page. I left a tactful message letting them know exactly how I felt about this sort of decision on the part of the Management staff for the facility.
Here's what I sent them:
Reference: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522659,00.html
Dear Kindred Hospital Administrators,
I was wondering if you could tell me if it would be alright for someone like me to enter your facility without offending the immigrant from africa referred to the article above, with my presence. You see, not only do I have more than 25-years of combined military service; but I am still serving in the United States Army Reserve with the rank of Captain. As such, I do proudly wear an American Flag on the right shoulder of my uniform.
I have also volunteered my time and effort for more than 8-years as a Sheriff's Deputy. In this capacity, I also proudly wear the American Flag on various uniforms and accessories to include the Tactical Vest that I would be wearing should I respond to an emergency in such a facility as yours. I also have stickers depicting the American Flag in both my personally-owned vehicles. I would really hate to offend your employee, who 14-years ago made the decision to immigrate to these United States from her birth nation, with my presence.
FWIW, I too immigrated into this great Nation more than a quarter-century ago and I find it reprehensible that someone who moved here for a better life would find the Stars and Stripes as offensive. Maybe you should remind this kind lady that she should reflect on why she selected the United States in the first place?
V/R,
Carlos Xxxxxxxx
I'd just put the flag back up.
They take it down again, I put it back up again.
They want to make a pissing contest out of it and take disciplinary action, I'd just dare them.
Point out that in a wrongful dismissal case, they're the ones that will have to defend their position to a jury.
I work in retail and after September 11th, I sewed small American flag patches on my work shirts.
A district manager that was known to be a pompus shathead told me that they were unauthorized decorations and that I'd have to take them off.
I told him that if he felt he was man enough to do it, go ahead and try and that if he wanted to make a case out of it in any other way, he would be the one defending a VERY unpopular position.
I kept the flags.
I'd just tell them that they have the right to be offended but not the right to offend me or infringe on my rights by their offence.
Then I would take down the 3x5 and put up a 4x6 flag
Chad
CarlosDJackal
05-29-09, 21:25
I received the following response to my inquiry. If this is true, they should deport that "immigrant" back to where she came from:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We share your anger and hurt about the removal of the flag. It is very important to clarify that a misunderstanding has been communicated through the media. The supervisor that is described in the media is actually the co-worker of Ms. McLucas and not Ms. McLucas's immediate supervisor. The incident was two nursing supervisors who got into a dispute.
It was wrong and disrespectful and as soon as we learned about it, we took immediate action to correct the situation. The flag is now proudly displayed once again, and we apologize to all who were equally offended by this unpatriotic action, including the owner of the flag. We have reprimanded the employee and let them know we don't tolerate behavior inconsistent with our Company's values."
She should have told her coworker - "I find you offensive, but you're still here".
SWATcop556
05-29-09, 22:55
If you went to Africa where the co-worker was from and stated you were offended by the flag and complained that it needed to be remove, I'm pretty sure the would tell you to **** off in their native tongue and/ or beat the shit out of you.
Maybe they're on to something........................:rolleyes:
I'm by no means even close to being a racist, but if you don't like the flag that stands for the freedom you came here to enjoy, GO HOME!!!!! You will not be missed.
Thomas M-4
05-29-09, 23:04
If you went to Africa where the co-worker was from and stated you were offended by the flag and complained that it needed to be remove, I'm pretty sure the would tell you to **** off in their native tongue and/ or beat the shit out of you.
Maybe they're on to something........................:rolleyes:
I'm by no means even close to being a racist, but if you don't like the flag that stands for the freedom you came here to enjoy, GO HOME!!!!! You will not be missed.
++++1
I would have told the "african immigrant" to go pound sand or to go back to the Sudan. I'm an immigrant myself, but this really pisses me a f*** off!! I hope she sues them for violating her First Amendment Rights. :mad:
How are her first amendments rights being violated?
If you went to Africa where the co-worker was from and stated you were offended by the flag and complained that it needed to be remove, I'm pretty sure the would tell you to **** off in their native tongue and/ or beat the shit out of you.
Maybe they're on to something........................:rolleyes:
I'm by no means even close to being a racist, but if you don't like the flag that stands for the freedom you came here to enjoy, GO HOME!!!!! You will not be missed.
What you say is MOST CERTAINLY NOT racist. It's fact. We should adopt similar policies OR just shut the damned door. I KNOW the vast majority of America agrees but we sit and keep quiet such that we don't "offend" our peer group". I gotta go throw up now... excuse me.
legendchaser
05-30-09, 09:48
I think my avatar will express how I feel about this and similar incidents.
they should put a flag in her room or break room pr wherever that lady hangs out and make her recite the pledge of allegiance every day :)
CarlosDJackal
05-31-09, 00:10
How are her first amendments rights being violated?
You're kidding, right? :eek:
You're kidding, right? :eek:
Actually, no he is not and he is right. You don't have first amendment rights on your employers property.
The first amendment protects you from intrusion by the govt. Not from your employer.
CarlosDJackal
05-31-09, 00:26
Actually, no he is not and he is right. You don't have first amendment rights on your employers property.
The first amendment protects you from intrusion by the govt. Not from your employer.
Uh, don't you mean the Fourth Amendment? :rolleyes:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Uh, don't you mean the Fourth Amendment? :rolleyes:
No I mean the First Amendment. What we are talking about. When I say "intrusion" I don't mean physical intrusion -- I mean intrusion on your rights.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Exactly. Notice it says there that Congress shall make no law. It does not say that your employer cannot make policy that would "infringe" on your 1A rights if the govt did the same thing.
None of my 1A comments should be construed that I think the employer was in the right. I think they screwed up and the co-worker should take a hike.
We just need to be sure what the basis is for "rights" that we are talking about.
Don Robison
05-31-09, 09:56
The follow up article should have been "TX woman loses offensive teeth."
CarlosDJackal
05-31-09, 23:21
No I mean the First Amendment. What we are talking about. When I say "intrusion" I don't mean physical intrusion -- I mean intrusion on your rights.
Exactly. Notice it says there that Congress shall make no law. It does not say that your employer cannot make policy that would "infringe" on your 1A rights if the govt did the same thing.
:confused: I think you're confused. Here is your previous quote:
Actually, no he is not and he is right. You don't have first amendment rights on your employers property.
The first amendment protects you from intrusion by the govt. Not from your employer.
The FIRST AMENDMENT protects our Freedom of Speech (among others). It is the FOURTH AMENDMENT that protects our Freedom to Privacy (as well as unreasonable search and seizure by the government).
When I said that the woman who had her American Flag taken down had her FIRST AMENDMENT Rights violated, I was talking about her decision to express her nationalistic pride. The comment was made when I thought that the hospital administrator had taken down the flag after her officemate complained.
Contrary to what you said, you do not loose your FIRST AMENDMENT Rights when you're at your employer's property. The fact that you or anyone else should think this just goes to show how much of our freedoms have been given up (not taken away) by well-meaning individuals who have decided not to make waves. NOTE: Freedom of Speech does not mean the ability to day something that could cause unwarranted panic and/or harm to others (i.e.: yelling "Fire!!" in a crowded room).
While there may be repercussions from your decision to practice this right, they cannot stop you. JM2CW.
:confused: I think you're confused. Here is your previous quote:
I am not confused.
The FIRST AMENDMENT protects our Freedom of Speech (among others). It is the FOURTH AMENDMENT that protects our Freedom to Privacy (as well as unreasonable search and seizure by the government).
No argument here from me on that. Why do you think I am confused? I have already explained a few times I meant the First Amendment. I am referring to the hospital taking down the flag that she had up.
Why do you think I am confused? I never once mentioned right to privacy or search and seizure.
When I said that the woman who had her American Flag taken down had her FIRST AMENDMENT Rights violated, I was talking about her decision to express her nationalistic pride. The comment was made when I thought that the hospital administrator had taken down the flag after her officemate complained.
sure, no problem. That is what we are talking about.
Contrary to what you said, you do not loose your FIRST AMENDMENT Rights when you're at your employer's property.
Sorry, but yes you do. The First Amendment dictates the governments relationship to the people and its right to regulate the people. It says nothing about the peoples relationships with one another. You do NOT have the right to express yourself at work and they can fire you in most jurisdictions if you go against company policy and express yourself in ways that violate the company's policy.
Unless you work for the government, your employers place of work (ie your place of work) is private property and not regulated by the government except in a few cases (zoning, building codes, ADA, discrimination laws, etc).
You do not have the right to express any sort of political opinion at work, nor any other opinion. It has nothing to do with the First Amendment.
The fact that you or anyone else should think this just goes to show how much of our freedoms have been given up (not taken away) by well-meaning individuals who have decided not to make waves.
Actually, NO. The First Amendment NEVER meant that. In fact, it originally only applied to the Federal Government and not even the states. This is what the Fourteenth Amendment and the due process clause is about bringing "incorporation" where the states are bound by the BoR as well.
NOTE: Freedom of Speech does not mean the ability to day something that could cause unwarranted panic and/or harm to others (i.e.: yelling "Fire!!" in a crowded room).
We are not talking about that. We are talking about expressing opinions on private property (your employer as long as you are not a govt worker).
While there may be repercussions from your decision to practice this right, they cannot stop you. JM2CW.
Once again, you do not have the right of free expression or FA rights on private property. This has NEVER existed and is not something we have lost. All the cases you find where the FA comes into play are in relation to the State (fed or state) interfering with or regulating people.
I can't believe something like this could happen, even temporarily. That idiotic African woman's audacious sense of empowerment has come directly from the left.
I just received the exact same cookie cutter response from Kindred.
I received the following response to my inquiry. If this is true, they should deport that "immigrant" back to where she came from:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We share your anger and hurt about the removal of the flag. It is very important to clarify that a misunderstanding has been communicated through the media. The supervisor that is described in the media is actually the co-worker of Ms. McLucas and not Ms. McLucas's immediate supervisor. The incident was two nursing supervisors who got into a dispute.
It was wrong and disrespectful and as soon as we learned about it, we took immediate action to correct the situation. The flag is now proudly displayed once again, and we apologize to all who were equally offended by this unpatriotic action, including the owner of the flag. We have reprimanded the employee and let them know we don't tolerate behavior inconsistent with our Company's values."
Here's a quote from a follow-up article in The Army Times:
" The company said it plans to distribute American flags for workplace display to all it's employees for the Forth of July."
The hospital in Texas is owned by Kindred Healthcare Company which is based in Kentucky. Sounds like they got the message.
I'd just tell them that they have the right to be offended but not the right to offend me or infringe on my rights by their offence.
Then I would take down the 3x5 and put up a 4x6 flag
Chad
:D..... This reminds of the people who burn the flag in quote, protest of gov. acts. You know, killing terrorists, protecting America and other outragous acts of treason. Im gonna try an get one of those bumper stickers that say, "if your going to burn the flag, please rap yourself in it first." If theirs one thing i hate, its ungrateful people who take advantage of the rights people bleed to protect. Id love to round em up and ship them to NK or China, tell em to burn their flag and find out how fast a firing squad can be assembled.......
decodeddiesel
06-04-09, 10:30
:D..... This reminds of the people who burn the flag in quote, protest of gov. acts. You know, killing terrorists, protecting America and other outragous acts of treason. Im gonna try an get one of those bumper stickers that say, "if your going to burn the flag, please rap yourself in it first." If theirs one thing i hate, its ungrateful people who take advantage of the rights people bleed to protect. Id love to round em up and ship them to NK or China, tell em to burn their flag and find out how fast a firing squad can be assembled.......
Seeing people burn the flag in protest makes me sick just as much as any other Veteran. You do understand however that it is those rights protected by the 1st amendment and the Bill of Rights which separates us and makes us superior to places like China and NK? It is the very fact that they can do that and not face a firing squad that makes America what it is.
parishioner
06-04-09, 10:48
If you really want to get you ass iced over watch this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH9bVRAe4NE&feature=related
Round em up and put a bullet in all their heads, leave one and let em be a witness to what happens when you outright disgrace our country in a manner like this. Or just send them to GITMO, im shure theyll buy em a laptop to complain on their blogs about the bad treatment they get there.
Seeing people burn the flag in protest makes me sick just as much as any other Veteran. You do understand however that it is those rights protected by the 1st amendment and the Bill of Rights which separates us and makes us superior to places like China and NK? It is the very fact that they can do that and not face a firing squad that makes America what it is.
And if America is turning into a place where you can do that and get away with it, it aint good change. I meant in a sense, that if they want to trample on the thing that represents their rights and the ones who protect them, throw a few of em into a country where you have almost 0 rights. Shure, no doubt America is what it is partly because of free speech, but only in the last 60 years did it turn into this crap. If we let the first amendment go unchecked eventually killing your neighbor will be an expression of your free speech:eek: I just wish we could trust out gov. leaders to safely inact a law that says you cant do things like this, unfortunately that could be a breeding ground for more big gov. rights limiting legislation.:( What a mess. We need a country thats like the front porch at Cracker Barrel:p Old school
CarlosDJackal
06-04-09, 12:58
The description of that video stated: "Also, people were threatened with arrest if they picked up the flags off the ground."
I probably would have gone to jail because after I picked up the flag, I would have bitch-slapped the UMF president if she tried to stop me from doing so. I probably also would taken note of who chose to stand on these flags and kicked their worthless asses later on. :mad:
I am glad to see that most of the students seem to have taken the effort to try and walk around the flags. The UMF President and Provost Marshall both strike me as pot-smoking hippies. :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, the Freedoms we hold dear are double-edged swords and are applicable to ALL US Persons. The Freedom of Speech is something we need to defend no matter how distasteful it may be. JM2CW.
decodeddiesel
06-04-09, 14:21
And if America is turning into a place where you can do that and get away with it, it aint good change. I meant in a sense, that if they want to trample on the thing that represents their rights and the ones who protect them, throw a few of em into a country where you have almost 0 rights. Shure, no doubt America is what it is partly because of free speech, but only in the last 60 years did it turn into this crap. If we let the first amendment go unchecked eventually killing your neighbor will be an expression of your free speech:eek: I just wish we could trust out gov. leaders to safely inact a law that says you cant do things like this, unfortunately that could be a breeding ground for more big gov. rights limiting legislation.:( What a mess. We need a country thats like the front porch at Cracker Barrel:p Old school
Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798, look it up.
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