View Full Version : Retro Forum?????????
Just out of curiosity, have you Guys ever thought about adding a Retro AR/M16 Forum?
NCPatrolAR
05-30-09, 00:12
What would you like to see included in such a forum?
a section entitled something like "Retro forum" that's for people to talk about and show off "vintage" guns... no, or oldschool optics, gray annodize, A1 everything, etc.
might not be a very active forum on this board...
might not be a very active forum on this board...
I agree. Just take a look at the recent thread about "KISS" rifles and you'll see that this board is slanted toward function over form.
I love my retro/KISS rifles, but I don't really come here to discuss them.
Al U. 5811
05-30-09, 14:08
A retro forum would be a nice addition.
Build it and they will come :D
The "Retro Forum" on arfcom is their best forum by far, the information compiled is outstanding.................................that said,..........as good as this site is run, the sky would be the limit.
What would you like to see included in such a forum?
Basically,
a stickey with pics of actual weapons in the field.
a stickey with detailed pics of the different models of M16 used since 1963.
members discussion about parts avaliability and pics of their personal retro builds.
i'm game.. my only submission will be a CAR15 i don't own anymore, but i love old guns.
we could, perhaps, just run a Retro thread for pics and conversation, and if it picks up- start a seperate forum
NCPatrolAR
05-30-09, 18:25
Basically,
a stickey with pics of actual weapons in the field.
a stickey with detailed pics of the different models of M16 used since 1963.
members discussion about parts avaliability and pics of their personal retro builds.
We'll see what site staff have to say, but IMO, everything you guys are asking for can be done in the AR General Discussion section.
I would like to have a retro forum here since I can't be a member of TOS because of their stupid "can't register with a yahoo email adress" policy, but I'm not sure if it would receive much traffic due to the nature of our site(more about the practical use of the AR rather than collecting them). Maybe we could roll the retro section in with the AR Pistols / Pistol Caliber AR's section? I don't go there often, but it doesn't seem like here is much talk about AR pistols so maybe it could become the Pistol Caliber AR's / Retro Forum? Just throwing out ideas here to see if we could make something work.
QuickStrike
05-31-09, 05:56
I'd probably never visit it. Why not just a retro picture thread or something?
You'd be surprised how many "Retro AR" Guys are out there.
I'm one of the Staff/Co-Owners of The AK Forum, we're an AK site geared more for the collector/shooter than anything else but when we added the "Practical AK" Forum it took off like a rocket. Merging it with AR General discussions or the AR Pistol Forums would'nt serve the purpose, give it an honest effort and it'll fly. I'll even volunteer to work the Forum if need be,......................check me out with VAdinger and Templar for references.
Al U. 5811
05-31-09, 12:01
JOHNO puts alot of time into the AK forum. He's a good guy!
We easily could have something better, if not more info based (less BS), than on TOS, regardless of the fact that many of us still are members over there.
I think the retro forum on TOS is the best section on that whole site. In fact, that's why I joined them.
NCPatrolAR
05-31-09, 13:10
It is now being discussed.
You'd be surprised how many "Retro AR" Guys are out there.
I'm one of the Staff/Co-Owners of The AK Forum, we're an AK site geared more for the collector/shooter than anything else but when we added the "Practical AK" Forum it took off like a rocket. Merging it with AR General discussions or the AR Pistol Forums would'nt serve the purpose, give it an honest effort and it'll fly. I'll even volunteer to work the Forum if need be,......................check me out with VAdinger and Templar for references.
Well now you have me convinced that it would be worth trying. Like I said I would really like a retro forum here and if you think it will work, I'm all for it. As others say, the retro forum is really the only place on TOS that is truly informative and is largely devoid of petty fights over nothing and it would be great to have something like it here.
It is now being discussed.
Thanks Guys, I'm good with whatever you decide, I appreciate the consideration.
I guess I'll be the voice of dissent.
I think it goes against everything this site is, or has become, about. "Retro" is about silliness like collecting for collecting's sake, building guns to look at and not shoot (or if they are shot it's just to "prove" that they can be), scouring the earth for garbage that is hard to find because it's outdated, etc.
I guess I'll be the voice of dissent.
I think it goes against everything this site is, or has become, about. "Retro" is about silliness like collecting for collecting's sake, building guns to look at and not shoot (or if they are shot it's just to "prove" that they can be), scouring the earth for garbage that is hard to find because it's outdated, etc.
How is building retro rifles any different than people who restore old cars? We've definately moved on to bigger and better things, but people still enjoy doing it. I have practical guns, but what's wrong with having a few neat old rifles? Besides how would this be any worse than the section for AR pistols? They aren't very practical yet there is a section for them.
The "pistol" section is also for pistol caliber carbines, which have lots of uses.
"retro" leads to "kiss" which is really read "less able".
It's no sweat off my balls either way as I obviously wouldn't have to click on the forum, but I think the resources are there on other collector-oriented sites. One site doesn't have to be all things to all people. What purpose would this section serve here that isn't already met somewhere else?
I think it also has to do with perception, and if you start up a bunch of silly "collector" sections you're going to get a lot of silly collector posts, and a lot of silly collector new members that are attracted here for nothing more than the collector section, which I think detracts from the current (if not the true) mission of this forum.
and don't even get me started on these goofballs that build "collectible" kit cars, which is frankly what "retro" in guns is more akin to than the idea of buying and restoring actual vintage cars. and even then, restoring actual vintage cars is a very weird hobby as well. "I'm going to go buy this 40 year old car with out of date technology and dump thousands of hours and dollars into making it as good as it could possibly be even though I could buy a 5 year old Corvette for half the price that will outperform my vintage car in every conceivable way".
I guess what I was getting at if M4C was completely practical gun oriented wouldn't the Pistol AR/ Pistol Caliber AR's be just Pistol Caliber AR's?
As to a retro forum attracting a bunch of collectors who only visit that section, maybe they would start exploring other parts of the forum and look at the practical aspect to their rifles? Isn't showing people the useful aspects of the AR part of what this forum is about? This place is what helped convert me to that concept. Besides I don't think a person is necersarily just a "practical rifle guy" or a "retro rifle guy", I would guess there are some people who enjoy both and having a retro forum here might be beneficial for them.
Rob, I appreciate your position although I disagree with your reasons. I have a little "Practical" or "Real World" experience and in the areas I worked simple was the best method of travel. The World has more to offer than Desert environments, Tropical rain forests, swamps and mountainous jungle environments play hell on even the best optics. That said, I do have a couple M4s outfitted with surefire lights, aimpoints and forward grips but I still tend to take a "Simple" AR or AK along.
I guess the point I'm trying to make,......................just because its "Retro" does'nt mean it does'nt still hold a valuable place in the tool box.
having a problem with or disdain for retro building/collecting is way cheesier than retro building/collecting.
FUN is what it's about. surely we're serious about our guns and build them or buy them to defend lives. but since only .001% non-mil/non-LEO people will ever have to squeeze the trig in anger, we might as well be having fun with our money and time. and nothing says a retro gun is only good for the safe- sure, rails and RDSs and VFGs make the gun "better," but that doesn't mean you can still kill the shit out of a dude with a CAR15
my "go-to" gun is a mostly LMT M4 build.. rails, light, aimpoint, VFG, SOPMOD, buis, vortex, battlegrip.. etc.. all the stuff we've come to love and say we cant be without. but i would not piss my pants if all i had was a CAR15, or even an A2.
I think this is a great idea.
If "Retro" isn't somebodies cup of tea, just avoid the new forum sub-section.
Please give M4c some time to get this up and running.
I agree, a retro forum would be great! Maybe it wouldn't get much traffic but nevertheless...
I thought I'd post a couple of pics of rifles that are kind of retro but still have optics and even a light! :eek:
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2817/kiss011.th.jpg (http://img37.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kiss011.jpg)http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7217/kiss012.th.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kiss012.jpg)
Look, some of us like both the old and the new!
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3418/newarbuild003.th.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newarbuild003.jpg)
No one ever makes a fuss about 1911s being retro. :rolleyes:
I don't post at all over here, but I lurk quite a bit, and maybe I can explain why this would be a good idea.
You have a forum dedicated to the M-4 carbine (look at the name after all), how to best use it, a technical section on it, and essentially the whole forum rotates aroudn this central premise.
Wouldn't it stand to reason that a forum on the evolution of that weapon and its history would be appropriate with so much vested already in it?
The history of the M-16 is a fascinating one, and honestly there is a lot that can be learned from understanding the development and changes that have happened over the years.
I know for some the minutia may seem a little dry, but there are definite reasons why, say, the Air Force rifles do not have a forward assist and the ones of the other services do, or why certain parts are no longer chrome plated.
Maybe it would ruffle some feathers less if it was called the 'M-16 History and Development' forum?
Dawg
I don't post at all over here, but I lurk quite a bit, and maybe I can explain why this would be a good idea.
You have a forum dedicated to the M-4 carbine (look at the name after all), how to best use it, a technical section on it, and essentially the whole forum rotates aroudn this central premise.
Wouldn't it stand to reason that a forum on the evolution of that weapon and its history would be appropriate with so much vested already in it?
The history of the M-16 is a fascinating one, and honestly there is a lot that can be learned from understanding the development and changes that have happened over the years.
I know for some the minutia may seem a little dry, but there are definite reasons why, say, the Air Force rifles do not have a forward assist and the ones of the other services do, or why certain parts are no longer chrome plated.
Maybe it would ruffle some feathers less if it was called the 'M-16 History and Development' forum?
Dawg
great point.. the retro forum, if it were to have some kind of historical/technical spin to it, could be great learning
Given the language in Heller about weapons in "common use" being protected by the 2nd Amendment, promoting the collecting of weapons serves a very practical purpose. The ownership of that "retro" AR helps protect ownership of the "practical" M4gery.
NCPatrolAR
06-01-09, 14:36
It has been decided that there currently is not enough interest for a dedicated "retro" forum/sub-forum. Site staff are willing to revisit the idea should a great number of people want such a forum.
If you guys want, feel free to post retro-related threads in the AR General Discussion and Custom forums as appropriate.
If anyone has questions feel free to ask.
decodeddiesel
06-01-09, 17:31
Did you mean to say not enough interest?
Oh well, the retro section over at TOS is good to go. I look at it far more than anything else on that site.
NCPatrolAR
06-01-09, 21:12
Did you mean to say not enough interest?
yep....I was at work when I typed it.
MachinegunT
06-10-09, 05:19
Great idea! Learning the history of these rifles should be a prerequisite to being a member!
I like the idea personally...
decodeddiesel
06-10-09, 09:15
Great idea! Learning the history of these rifles should be a prerequisite to being a member!
Just wondering why you think that? I have always felt this site is geared more towards the serious user rather than the serious "student of the platform" if you understand what I'm saying.
Personally I find the history and development of the weapon interesting, and frankly a retro forum could be interesting if utilized properly. However I don't feel it is directly pertinent to the perceived mission of this website.
I know a hell of a lot of professional "trigger pullers" who wouldn't have any idea who the hell Eugene Stoner was, but they know how to run the crap out of an M4 and you sure do want them in a stack next to you.
MachinegunT
06-10-09, 17:55
Just wondering why you think that? I have always felt this site is geared more towards the serious user rather than the serious "student of the platform" if you understand what I'm saying.
Personally I find the history and development of the weapon interesting, and frankly a retro forum could be interesting if utilized properly. However I don't feel it is directly pertinent to the perceived mission of this website.
I know a hell of a lot of professional "trigger pullers" who wouldn't have any idea who the hell Eugene Stoner was, but they know how to run the crap out of an M4 and you sure do want them in a stack next to you.
Well maybe I am just an isolated case or its my OCD but I try to learn as much history as I can when it comes to my interest! I just think IMHO that it wouldn't take much to do this and it certainly would do more good then harm. I do however respect your position as well and its one of those things where if someone doesn't care to read it they have that choice!
T:)
I would like to have a retro forum here since I can't be a member of TOS because of their stupid "can't register with a yahoo email adress" policy, but I'm not sure if it would receive much traffic due to the nature of our site(more about the practical use of the AR rather than collecting them). Maybe we could roll the retro section in with the AR Pistols / Pistol Caliber AR's section? I don't go there often, but it doesn't seem like here is much talk about AR pistols so maybe it could become the Pistol Caliber AR's / Retro Forum? Just throwing out ideas here to see if we could make something work.
i'ed like a retro room.
TOS . i caint log on ...
I'd like to see a Retro forum. It makes sense to me that there should be one, because what we call "Retro" builds are really just early variants of AR15/M4 and part of the history of this particular weapon system. I'd like to see a sticky with some info pertaining to the development and initial fielding of AR15 rifles. Maybe another depicting various models through the evolution with the particulars: IE Receiver types, bbl length profile, twist rate, chamber specs, bolt/carrier/buffer particulars, and furniture info. Maybe a sticky for build pics.
Not EVERY AR15 in the safe needs to be a fighting gun. I have a Noveske plus an LMT in progress. If anything goes "BUMP" in the night I have one good carbine in my room (Noveske) plus soon the LMT upstairs, both with white lights & RDS's. I bet most of the serious posters here have 1 or 2 equivalent carbines at LEAST.
I like to think of them in the same way as Garands, m1 Carbines, Enfields & the like. Just because they arent the latest & greatest doesn't mean you can't enjoy them, or the history surrounding them.
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