View Full Version : AAR: Vickers Tactical AK class May 30-31
drummerdude1188
06-01-09, 17:44
AAR: Vickers AK class
Weapons:
SA 1911 mil-spec
Gear/kit/equipment:
SKD all molle chest rig with sjauch short straps, EGL triple shingle, and double pistol pouch
Wilderness 5 stitch instructor belt
Sidearmor holster
Raven concealment kydex single mag “holder/pouch”
Rolly Polly dump pouch
TD1: Got squared away and did some shooting from different ranges under 50m. Low ready, up, two shots, scan assess. Then some prone stuff then we zeroed. Then the walk back drill… I hit the target at the 50 and 100 but missed on the 120. I had never shot out to even a 100m before so I was surprised I had made it that far. We worked on reloads. The kydex mag pouch really worked great on the reloads. Larry stressed this was one of the hardest parts of using the AK well. Every one pretty much used the “traditional” reload. Take the mag out, put it wherever, get the new one and insert, rack bolt with support hand over or under gun. Went on to do some pistol shooting and I was very inconstant. Shooting a pistol good is damn hard and I was snatching the trigger, when shooting live ammo, but when dry firing I didn’t snatch the trigger. I need some more trigger time on the pistol. Did some transition drills between rifle and pistol and had a final walk back of the day. As the day had progressed I had noticed I was shooting constantly worse with both rifle and pistol. At the end of the day I was a little frustrated but eager to shoot and lean more to improve.
TD2: Started off with some shooting at some distance I can’t remember then had a walk back pretty early. After that went right on to shooting on the move. I was shooting much better and was actually doing pretty well with the shooting on the move. We did some team drills and the teams were as follows: Team Asshole, Team Biden aka Biden Boys and Team Eunuch. I was on team Eunuch. Broke for lunch and then one of the highlights of the class…. The ppsh 41. Tim was kind enough to let us shoot a few bursts through it and man was it fun. After that some team shooting on the move drills and that pretty much concluded the day. I defiantly noticed improvement on day 2 and continuted to shoot better as the day progeressed. Overall a great two days of shooting.
More later, Im still writing the rest
drummerdude1188
06-01-09, 22:06
All of the below is my thoughts and opinions on my experience in the class. This was my first formal training so I was essentially a “clean slate" This is some of what I took away from the class.
Thoughts on Training
Muscle memory
-Muscle memory developed very fast for me. I was Originally used a standard safety selector for a good few hours then switched over to the blackjack. I found myself several times trying to manipulate the blackjack the way you manipulate the standard safety. After a few minutes I got the hang of it but it stick in my mind about how easy it could be to develop “training scars”. For instance I was wearing a dump pouch, but when I ran empty wit the rifle outside of 25m I never put the empty in the pouch. I just dropped it on the ground, because I thought that always taking the empty and trying to “prom night” it in my dump pouch would develop a habit of doing that, and I would not want to do that inadvertently in a gunfight. Same thing with a “click” on the rifle inside of 25m, it took some getting used to just transition immediately to the handgun instead of trying to address the malfunction or reload the rifle. I will need to practice this one some more.
Trigger Control
-I need to work on trigger control! I was el snatcho especially when shooting the pistol and it showed. Whenever I did dry fire with the shell casing on the front sight I did fine and the shell did not fall of. But when shooting live ammo I jerked the trigger a lot. Again, something I just need more practice with.
Thoughts on gear/kit:
Overall Setup
-I thought my setup was very optimal. I did a lot of research before I bought all this stuff and I got it right. The only things I would change are to get a dump pouch that can clip onto the belt rater than be run thought it as this limits the placement of it and can get in the way. I would rather have my pistol pouches for the primary reload be on the belt rather than the chest rig. Due to me being short there’s not a lot of room on my waist/belt for shit so im still working on that one. This is especially problematic since I was running a 1911. Other than that the gear I about was quality and held up excellently
-I almost exclusively used the chest rig as a magazine carrier and reloaded the empty rifle from the kydex on my belt. The kydex was my primary reload unless I was prone. This was for several reasons. It’s very easy to locate on your body and I didn’t even have to look or feel around for it. Much more of the mag is exposed allowing you to get a better grip closer to the top of the mag, which makes the “rock and lock” more consistent. Reloading from the chest rig was slow and “fumbly” and not was as fast or consistent as the kydex pouch.
HighSpeedDreams
06-01-09, 22:15
Good write-up Drummer Dude. I am a little surprised not to see your usage of the Rambo bandana included in your Gear T&E section.
Nick was my hero the entire class!
drummerdude1188
06-01-09, 22:21
Good write-up Drummer Dude. I am a little surprised not to see your usage of the Rambo bandana included in your Gear T&E section.
Nick was my hero the entire class!
Well since I didn't actually wear it on the field I thought I would leave it out, lol, although I should have since my forehead is toast right now. Im still a little disappointed Jeff didn't wear the helmet. Good shooting with you man.
[QUOTE=HighSpeedDreams;380737]Good write-up Drummer Dude. I am a little surprised not to see your usage of the Rambo bandana included in your Gear T&E section.
Nick was my hero the entire class!
HighSpeedDreams: Thanks for the compliment, but maybe you should raise your standards a bit - I was just another guy in the class. I made my share of errors: forgetting to "click" after the last round in one of the drills, a screwed-up mag change here and there and let's not forget when I was demo-ing the transition drill with Larry and actually fired my G19 when he told me to "take the shot" (not literally) when he wasn't wearing earpro.
Battlepack
06-02-09, 12:36
Man I really wanted to make that class, but family obligations prevailed.
Two questions:
1. How many were running optics, and did anyone have the LaRue IronDot?
2. I shoot like Larry does (in practice, not skill level :D). Namely, I shoot rifle left-handed and pistol right-handed. How did he handle safety manipulations left-handed?
drummerdude1188
06-02-09, 13:42
Man I really wanted to make that class, but family obligations prevailed.
Two questions:
1. How many were running optics, and did anyone have the LaRue IronDot?
2. I shoot like Larry does (in practice, not skill level :D). Namely, I shoot rifle left-handed and pistol right-handed. How did he handle safety manipulations left-handed?
1. At least 5 but maybe 6 people ran optics, all had ultimak's with micros, nothing else.
2. IIRC, when shooting left handed, the right hand comes back to the magazine and reaches with the thumb to manipulate the safety.
Good write-up - optics ruled - Ultimak/Aimpoint T1s are the "KATS AZZ." The BlackJack/Krebbs safety also rocks.
I was using an SLR106 and it was great.
Shooting on the move kicks my rear all the time. Still need to work on that.
Again, great training with you folks! Jeff defiantely wussed in not wearing the Kevlar.
HighSpeedDreems - keep in touch about the Cove.
drummerdude1188
06-02-09, 16:58
Does anyone remember the specifics of the drills we did. I can remember kinda what we did but I cant remember the par times/ # of rounds / and distance that we we shooting at. I would like to write these down so I can practice them so if anyone remembers some of them pipe up. :cool:
It was great shooting and meeting some of you guys this weekend. I ran the Ultimak and Micro and I highly recommend it.
It is very fast on target and doesn't f-up your rifle..... There were a few others running it and we consistently were on target quickly with it. That said others did well with irons they just were not as fast. Not a must, but it is a great setup.
I look forward to seeing you guys again at another class with Larry...
Great class, and I always look forward to putting faces with names and meeting and shooting with people from the various forums.
Excellent group of guys. There was a very wide range of skill sets in this class, from some very experienced shooters to some guys who had never had any formal training ever. I think that the even the most experienced shooters learned some good techniques and I know that the new shooters improved markedly during the course.
This class had the widest diversity of AK variants that I've seen in the classes I've attended, with two shooters using "Krinkovs" as their primaries, with traditional iron sighted AK's marching right along next to Aimpoint Micro equiped carbines.
Quality red dot optics do make a big difference in the speed and accuracy that the user is able to get out of the rifle that he's running. It's good to know how to use both......for people going overseas the vast majority of AK's that they're going to be exposed to won't have any optics, or modified safeties, but for those guys who use an AK as their primary long gun here in the US, it's highly, highly, highly recommended that a quality red dot optic (Aimpoint) and a good white light are installed on the rifle.
The PPSh-41 was courtesy of United Armament in Richmond, VA. It's a post '86 dealer sample. I'm sorry I couldn't get the drum running but I hope everyone enjoyed putting a few rounds through it using the stick mags. It's a real piece of history for sure.
I'll post the pictures now, and I'm loading videos, which is a tedious process.
Again, great to train with you guys, and hope to do more in the future.
TD1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%205%20TD1/P1020280.jpg
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TD1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%205%20TD1/P1020306.jpg
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TD1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%205%20TD1/P1020337.jpg
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TD1
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TD2
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%205%20TD2/P1020388.jpg
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TD2
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%205%20TD2/P1020403.jpg
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TD2.....Malfunction Drills
These were intentionally induced malfunctions that the shooters had to clear, first under instruction, then done on command.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%205%20TD2/P1020420.jpg
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Gun Wielding Maniac performing a malfunction drill.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkpuhIQKkgQ
TD2 -- Shooting on the move.......heel - toe, bend your knees to take the shock out of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImQWl03nXtE
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PPSh-41 submachine gun. This is a Post '86 Dealer Sample (non transferrable), courtesy of United Armament in Richmond, VA. We were happy to bring this to the range and let everyone who wanted to get some trigger time on one of the most prolific sub guns in the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwSkNYanej0&feature=channel_page
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The patented Wookie Rag (tm) .... I learned a long time ago to bring a sweat rag out there in the summer.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%205%20TD2/P1020484.jpg
Group shot and photos of the guys with Larry.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%205%20TD2/P1020490.jpg
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Again, it was great shooting with you guys, I look forward to training with everyone again.
GLOCKMASTER
06-02-09, 20:31
Looks like a great class and some awsome photos. There are a few of the usual suspects showing up in some of the pictures.:D
Templar is the man for hooking you up with class porn!
Robb Jensen
06-03-09, 07:09
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/BillyMaysmotivator.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/BillyMaysmotivator.jpg
THAT, is some funny shit right there......:D
Robb:
Nice job, ball busting at a whole new level.
Here are my notes from the class;
1- The bottom rail was a bad idea as it cuased me to reach critical mas with the ROMAK 2. Lost my zero which sucked, oh well wanted to see if it would work.
2- I need to run the chest rack higher and move the EMDOM pouches up one row.
3- I need a longer stock if i hope to ever get a good fit for prone.
4- Parking lots can be great places to hang out.
5- Great bunch off guys, with lots of interesting set ups.
6- Next time run the 106FR, or CR with the micro
7- Mr. Vickers, break balls with the best of them, reminds me of holidays with the family when I was a kid.
Regards
Matt Renz
Heavy Metal
06-03-09, 19:59
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%205%20TD1/P1020387.jpg
I swear, I think Larry does this dry fire drill soley to smoke out people using stock Glock 'gap filler' plastic sights.
Don't feel bad, he got me too last year.
....at least I could blame Heinie for the backorder:D
Heavy Metal
06-03-09, 20:00
Robb:
Nice job, ball busting at a whole new level.
Here are my notes from the class;
1- The bottom rail was a bad idea as it cuased me to reach critical mas with the ROMAK 2. Lost my zero which sucked, oh well wanted to see if it would work.
2- I need to run the chest rack higher and move the EMDOM pouches up one row.
3- I need a longer stock if i hope to ever get a good fit for prone.
4- Parking lots can be great places to hang out.
5- Great bunch off guys, with lots of interesting set ups.
6- Next time run the 106FR, or CR with the micro
7- Mr. Vickers, break balls with the best of them, reminds me of holidays with the family when I was a kid.
Regards
Matt Renz
If you are going to run a VFG on an AK, the Krebs offset VFG is da heat and the only way to fly. Does NOT interfere with mag changes.
HighSpeedDreams
06-04-09, 19:48
The Parking Lot hang out was the shizzle.
NCPatrolAR
06-04-09, 20:07
If you are going to run a VFG on an AK, the Krebs offset VFG is da heat and the only way to fly. Does NOT interfere with mag changes.
I've had good luck with the Tangodown stubby grip on an Ultimak rail.
The Parking Lot hang out was the shizzle.
Yeah, that was a great night... in an odd place.:D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/BillyMaysmotivator.jpg
Vickers AK class $400
Ammo $150
Hampton Inn $70
Billy Mays motivational poster....... PRICELESS
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