Concealed Carry 1911

[William B.]

I just got my Concealed Handgun Permit. I've been carrying a SW1911PD which isn't uncomfortable except for the 5in barrel. The problem I have is that somebody who knows what to look for will see that I'm carrying right off the bat because of the grip length. I want a single stack 1911 in .45 with a 3in barrel. I've been considering a Para Lite Hawg, a Colt Defender, and I've also considered getting a RIA Compact and fixing it up a little. What do you guys think? Especially if you have experience with one of the 3 guns I mentioned.

[Business_Casual]

I think you shouldn't bet your life on a 3" 1911. Ever.

Either carry a 5" gun, (which is doable with an IWB) or carry a G19/P30/M&P.

M_P

[William B.]

I think you shouldn't bet your life on a 3" 1911. Ever.

Either carry a 5" gun, (which is doable with an IWB) or carry a G19/P30/M&P.

M_P

Are there a lot of reliability issues with 3in models? If so why is this? What about Commander style models?

[woodandsteel]

It sounds like you should be looking at a Colt CCO, or one of the copies of it. Colt no longer sells it's CCO model. But you can still find some used ones, for a price.

The CCO is a Commander length slide mated to an Officers Model sized receiver. Although Colt no longer produces one, other gun manufacturers have started to produce their versions of it.

Here is a picture of my wife's CCO;

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo187/woodandsteel/IMG_1984JPG.jpg

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo187/woodandsteel/IMG_1979JPG.jpg

The shorter grip makes it esier to conceal under a shirt.

Another option is to look at some of the models that have a bobtail grip. Personally, I don't like how they look. But others love them.

[Zhurdan]

I carry a 4" 1911. I'd also recommend against a 3" for anything resembling serious stuff. Getting them to run well is a bit of a trick. The geometry required to load a HP bullet in a 3" pistol is pretty tight. It just adds too many things to the mix that can go wrong. A little lint from carrying all the time gumming up the works plus recoil springs that they recommend to be replaced after 500-800 rounds plus the amount the barrel has to tilt just makes it something I wouldn't want to have on my hip.

Carrying a 5" is doable for sure and I used to carry one for quite a while. I only switched to the 4" because I've shot the hell out of it with HP ammo and I haven't had any problems to speak of. Just keep 'em clean and lubed and of course longer than 3" and shoot the piss out of it to make sure it runs when you need it to.

As far as concealing them... it's not that bad really. I have a Kirkpatrick IWB that cants the gun just enough so where the butt of the gun is not even visible when bending over or twisting.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r127/Zhurdan/IMG_0484.jpg

[jtb0311]

How big are you? I carried a 5" 1911 in an IWB for years. A couple of years ago I bought a Commander and had a gunsmith bobtail it; now I carry it in an IWB.

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4937/bobtail.jpg (http://img192.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bobtail.jpg)

[rob_s]

Holster selection and body type will have a lot to do with how well you can conceal a 5" 1911, as will where you place the holster on your belt.

All of that said, I like the commander size myself with the 4.25" bushing (meaning non-bull) barrel, and a frame that's shortened by one round and made from aluminum. Best compromise in a carry 1911 IMHO.

[William B.]

How big are you? I carried a 5" 1911 in an IWB for years. A couple of years ago I bought a Commander and had a gunsmith bobtail it; now I carry it in an IWB.

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4937/bobtail.jpg (http://img192.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bobtail.jpg)

I'm about 5'11 and 185lbs. I'm carrying my 5in in a cheap Blackhawk IWB holster right now. I'm planning to get a better holster once I decide what I'm carrying. Do you have any recommendations for or against any holsters?
What unit are/were you in? I'm an '11 too. I was in 1/6.

[WillBrink]

What do you guys think?

I have carried a 5" and 4.25" 1911 for a decade without a single person spotting a thing. People are MUCH less observant then you think they are. Just admit you wanna buy a new gun* and move on....:cool:

* = though I would never recommend anything below a Commander length 1911 personally,

[Bob Reed]

Hello,

My most used mode of carry is a Browning High Power in Andy Arratoonian's Model 28XS Crossdraw. I wear the 28XS strong-side thow, at about the 2 O'Clock/Appendix position. It makes for a really fast & natural draw and The Sleek High Power & Holster are easily concealed under normal fitting cloathing. My mags are carried weak side in a Double Mag Carrier by Rusty Sherrick, and I use Galco's CB2 Firm Contour 1-1/4" Belt to support it all.

Andy's Model 28 Crossdraw: http://www.holsters.org/crossdraw-holster.htm

Rusty's Double Mag Carrier: http://www.c-rusty.com/pages/other%20prod/magcariers.html

Galco's CB2 Firm Contour Belt: http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterP3.asp?ProductID=1621&CatalogID=255

[William B.]

I have carried a 5" and 4.25" 1911 for a decade without a single person spotting a thing. People are MUCH less observant then you think they are. Just admit you wanna buy a new gun* and move on....:cool:

* = though I would never recommend anything below a Commander length 1911 personally,

I know most people are too complacent to notice. You or I would probably notice though. Comfortability is a factor, too. What kind of holster do you use?

[jtb0311]

I'm about 5'11 and 185lbs. I'm carrying my 5in in a cheap Blackhawk IWB holster right now. I'm planning to get a better holster once I decide what I'm carrying. Do you have any recommendations for or against any holsters?
What unit are/were you in? I'm an '11 too. I was in 1/6.

I was in 3/7.

I've used an IWB Kramer for more than a decade, for both the full size and the Commander. It's worked very well for me.

[GLB]

The 5in 1911 has proven to be the most reliable platform. I have carried a 5in 1911 in a Milt Sparks summer speacial with good results. Pick the handgun that you can run well and one that gives you the most confidence, find a good holster and dress to conceal it.

[noops]

I'm 5'6" 150 pounds with a 29.5 inch waist, and I'm pretty fit. I carry a full size ed brown IWB in a Milt Sparks VM2 just fine. You don't need to be that big. It's about the holster more than anything.

[WillBrink]

I know most people are too complacent to notice. You or I would probably notice though. Comfortability is a factor, too. What kind of holster do you use?

And if you or I notice, so what? We are the good guys remember? Been around shooters, LEO, etc, for a long time and none said "you're printing BTW." If they noticed, they said nothing. As there is no one rig/carry option for all occasions, I use what makes sense for what I am doing at the time. Having said that, I use a basic Galco Belt slide probably 85-90% of the time with a good Belt Man Belt. That Galco does a very good job of molding the gun to your body. I have more expensive holsters, and I find the Galco to be both the most comfortable and concealable of the bunch. I don't do IWB personally as I hate that method of carry. Galco belt slide:

http://www.lapolicegear.com/gaquslbeho.html

Most of the time, I carry a custom Caspian Commander built on a titanium frame:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b374/willbrink/TiCommander1.jpg

[DRich]

Although I can carry a gov't model pretty easily, I prefer the Commanders simply because they "feel" better to me. I guess that 3/4" difference puts it in the sweet spot. Due to reliability issues, I won't consider any 1911 with a barrel less than 4.25" long as a serious weapon. The farther you deviate from the original 5" mechanics, the less reliable a 1911 becomes.

My favorite 1911 for carry is a Dan Wesson CBOB. I just hit the 5k round mark on this pistol and I haven't had one malfunction that wasn't mag related. The bobtail frame keeps my cover garments from hanging up on the corner of the grip and reduces printing. With my Wilderness belt and Sparks SSII (IWB) or Alessi CQC/s (OWB), I have no issues carrying this gun even though it's over 40oz loaded.

http://hudsdad.com/pics/dw2.jpg

[Irish]

Don't forget that a good quality gunbelt is essential in making a holster work properly. Try The Beltman or if you're looking for something a little less expensive I recommend The Wilderness 5 stitch belts. The best holster I've found for myself is a Brommeland, I'm 6'3" 220.

[William B.]

[QUOTE=WillBrink;381617]And if you or I notice, so what? We are the good guys remember? Been around shooters, LEO, etc, for a long time and none said "you're printing BTW." If they noticed, they said nothing. As there is no one rig/carry option for all occasions, I use what makes sense for what I am doing at the time. Having said that, I use a basic Galco Belt slide probably 85-90% of the time with a good Belt Man Belt. That Galco does a very good job of molding the gun to your body. I have more expensive holsters, and I find the Galco to be both the most comfortable and concealable of the bunch. I don't do IWB personally as I hate that method of carry. Galco belt slide:

http://www.lapolicegear.com/gaquslbeho.html

Most of the time, I carry a custom Caspian Commander built on a titanium frame:

My point was that there are bad guys out there who have a "combat mindset" just like you and I. They would know what the bulge above my waste was. Timothy McVeigh, for instance, based his whole lifestyle around the combat mindset. The only reason he got caught so soon was because he believed in local law enforcement and the officer that pulled him over was State LE and not a Fed. That being said, if I notice somebody carrying I'm definitely not going to say anything to them, but I will keep an eye on them until they're away from me.
Thanks for the recommendation on the belt. I'll check that out.

[theJanitor]

Carrying a government model is 100% doable. but it will require finding the specific holster that your frame will accommodate and a possible adjustment to your cover garments.

i've seen people of ALL shapes and sizes successfully hide a gov't 1911.

right now, the most comfortable IWB for my frame and a Colt 1911 is an MTAC. i'm 5'10 and 200lbs. 46R chest and 34" waist

[Irish]

I wrote this up about 6 months ago but it might help... I use a Belt Man belt now.

Let me preface this with the fact that I am not a writer, manufacturer, reviewer or in anyway affiliated with any of the companies that are featured in this quick, down & dirty review. Personally I own a 5” Wilson Combat CQB which I can’t say enough good things about. This is my favorite 1911 I have owned and my experience is rather limited in comparison to some of the people who post here so please bear with me. In addition to that I’m 6’3” and 210lbs and I believe this may play a large part in my comfort factor with different holsters as opposed to someone of more conventional size.

My main reason for posting this is that I think a lot of people would like to see more pictures of different holsters and how they compare to one another. I’ve studied a myriad of different holsters, websites and forums and could not come up with any 1 answer to what I wanted so I purchased 3 holsters from manufacturers who are widely considered to be “top tier” in the category of IWB holsters. I am not inferring that anyone else shouldn’t or wouldn’t be considered, I just couldn’t get their holster in a timely manner. I myself would’ve loved to have been able to get an Alessi and a Nossar to throw into the mix and will do so one day.

As of right now I’ll be discussing the Gary Brommeland Max-Con V, the Milt Sparks VM-II (horsehide) and the Matt Del Fatti ISP-LP. I purchased the Sparks and Del Fatti holsters from aftermarket resale specialists that had them in stock and I got lucky enough that Gary had an “extra” MC-V that someone hadn’t paid for and he was willing to sell to me along with whipping out a matching magazine pouch to go with it, thanks again Gary!

My 1st impression of all 3 holsters is that they are all on an equal playing field as far as fit and finish goes, needless to say I’m impressed! The attention to detail and the quality of each is readily apparent, even to the novice :) I decided I’d get all 3 holsters and then make my determination as to who would get my hard earned money for a complete rig so I tested all 3 with a Wilderness Instructor Belt. On a side note this is a great belt for a reasonable price and I now recommend them to any and every person I know who uses holsters. I bought the 1.5” 5 stitch belt in a size 40 and it fits perfect, my pants size is normally 34” – 36” for a reference, and if you’re ever in the Phoenix area drop in and they’ll make yours while you wait! Great quality and customer service to match, enough said.

This “review” is purely subjective and is based solely on my comfort. I would highly recommend you purchase multiple holsters from different manufacturers and try your stab at finding the most comfortable, concealable and “best” holster for yourself. If your wife doesn’t understand tell her it’s like finding the best fitting bra for her, mine understood :D Please remember that this is not meant to critique any of these holsters on their quality of build as I believe they are all top notch in that category. As a side note I did not wear these holsters for weeks on end. My observations are from wearing them each approximately 3 days so there may be in fact more to be gained from them after a proper break in period. I tend to think so with the VM-2 especially being made of horse and feeling much more stiff upon initial inspection.

3rd place for me in the comfort area is the Matt Del Fatti ISP-LP. Although it is the shortest holster in length and initially I thought this would add more comfort I’ve come to realize that it hits directly on my sciatic nerve and is extremely painful to wear. This is obviously in direct proportion to my frame, physique and physical make up and nothing to do with the outstanding product Matt delivers. The belt loops are the widest of the 3 holsters. The initial firearm fit was the “loosest” in comparison to the other 2 but was more than ample when doing an upside down shake test. Just to clarify the holster was NOT loose but in fact was probably the closest to being the actual proper size to my CQB and would need the least amount of break in. ***The ISP does have a semi-reinforced mouth, only in the front. Sideways squeeze test puts this in 2nd for ease of reholstering.***
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9285/holster005ym2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

2nd place for me is the Milt Sparks VM-2 in horsehide (it was available). The VM-2 was middle of the road for overall length and belt loop width in respect to the other 2 holsters. I’m not sure if the horsehide requires more of a breaking in period but it was in the middle for comfort for me, slight sciatic nerve pinching, and it did tend to squeak a little when walking. Remember, my body and your body are proportioned differently and the things I mention will not affect everyone in the same way. The CQB fit remarkably well and didn’t need anything outside of normal use for any break in contrary to what I’ve read in several places. I have heard that Sparks holsters are very tight and that they need “bagging” and such for break in but this was definitely not the case with mine, a great job on fit! ***The VM-2 has a reinforced mouth and was by far the easiest for 1 handed reholstering. Sideways squeeze test puts it in 1st place with respect to being non-collapsing.***
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2448/holster002ra5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1st place for me in terms of comfort was the Gary Brommeland Max-Con V. This holster was longest in overall length and had the skinniest belt loops. Out of all 3 the MC-V is the only 1 with different size loops, the back loop being about ¼” larger than the front and really helped in the area of comfort (also for presenting the weapon in a vehicle). Along with the loops I feel that the taller “sweat guard” helped a lot in terms of love handle protection :) The Max-Con V does not have a reinforced mouth for 1 handed reholstering and I’m of the opinion that this will not affect me as a civilian carrying concealed. This holster also had the most cant out of the 3 and may be the largest part of being the most comfortable due to not hitting the sciatic nerve, again, on me! Excellent weapon fit and retention as to be expected.
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6191/holster003cw3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Additional group photos so you can see all 3 side by side and the varying angles that are attributes of each different design. From Left to Right MC-V, VM-II, ISP-LP.
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7342/holster008vp5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1425/holster009me8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/516/holster014wb1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

***After giving it some thought and in all fairness to Tony Kanaley and the good folks at Milt Sparks I will be ordering a full rig in cowhide. I've come to the conclusion that horse isn't for me and I would definitely like to give their cowhide products a shot.*** A couple more thoughts and things I noticed. In terms of holding the CQB closest to my body, the results were the same as comfort, the MC-V, VM-II and then the ISP-LP. I will be posting pictures of this in the next couple of days.

I would not hesitate to HIGHLY RECOMMEND ALL 3 HOLSTERS to anyone and everyone reading this! My body type, physique and opinions on what is comfortable to me should in no way influence your decision. Initially I was going to only post pictures and thought it might be fun to jot down what my quick thoughts were concerning each one.
And 1 more to show off the holster pouch as well… take care.
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2617/holster004dq7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[JiMfraRED1911]

Are there a lot of reliability issues with 3in models? If so why is this? What about Commander style models?

Quoted from Hilton Yam...

"By virtue of their design, the shorter format 1911s reduce the window of functional opportunity for the magazine and slide to work together to feed, chamber, extract, and eject. This is an incontrovertible fact of life. Proper weapon setup, spring rates, and magazine maintenance are critical in running the shorter guns."

[decodeddiesel]

I wrote this up about 6 months ago but it might help...

Thanks for posting that Irish. Great read.

[Irish]

Thanks for posting that Irish. Great read.

You're welcome :D

[Rider79]

It sounds like you should be looking at a Colt CCO, or one of the copies of it. Colt no longer sells it's CCO model. But you can still find some used ones, for a price.

The CCO is a Commander length slide mated to an Officers Model sized receiver.

Would this be the Colt 1991A1 model?

http://lasvegas.backpage.com/SportsEquipForSale/_699_colt_45_1991_1911_compact_carry_unfired/classifieds/ViewAd?oid=1346812

[WillBrink]

My point was that there are bad guys out there who have a "combat mindset" just like you and I. They would know what the bulge above my waste was. Timothy McVeigh, for instance, based his whole lifestyle around the combat mindset. The only reason he got caught so soon was because he believed in local law enforcement and the officer that pulled him over was State LE and not a Fed. That being said, if I notice somebody carrying I'm definitely not going to say anything to them, but I will keep an eye on them until they're away from me.
Thanks for the recommendation on the belt. I'll check that out.

I don't worry about Tim McVeigh seeing a bulge when I CCW. I carry what's going to give me the greatest advantages and or what I am most proficient with that I can conceal. I can conceal, as anyone else can, a government or commander sized 1911, and have for 5-7 day per week for a long time. The only thing I would ever worry about would be blatantly printing where anyone without any training could see, which might alert LE which would potentially result in loss of the CCW, thus I would not say where the above rig with a T shirt for example. A loose fitting button up short sleeve shirt, yes, and so on.

Good luck.

[woodandsteel]

Would this be the Colt 1991A1 model?

http://lasvegas.backpage.com/SportsEquipForSale/_699_colt_45_1991_1911_compact_carry_unfired/classifieds/ViewAd?oid=1346812


I don't believe so. From the pictures, the slide looks to be an Officer Model sized slide. The CCO should have the 4.25 inch slide of the commander.

I know that SigArms makes a CCO copy. But it doesn't really appeal to me. And I believe that Smith and Wesson makes one. I found this on the S&W Website;
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=86955&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn= It's their SW1911 Compact ES

You, can look at Nighthwks T3. But it is very expensive.

If I were to be looking for another CCO, I would keep my eyes open for a used Colt Gunsite CCO. They show up on Gunbroker every now and again.

I should add, in my previous post, I slammed the bobtail option. But, looking at some of the examples in this thread, It looks like the bobtail can be done in a very classy and proffesional manner.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I run a Lightweight Colt Officer's ACP as my daily carry. I have run over 1000 rounds of various ammo (mostly ball reloads) and found it to be trustworthy. The only ammo it won't feed reliably is wadcutter, which will choke my HK45 and full length 1911s. I did replace the spring (which had an unknown number of previous rounds on it) at about 800 rounds. It is accurate, very lightweiht, thin and reliable. Not to mention it holds 8 rounds of 45 in an envelope that is much smaller than most "compact" 45s. I am a fan. For about a decade I avoided buying one because I was told they wouldn't run. I was talking to LAV and he agreed that they generally weren't worth hassling with--but that if you could find one that ran to keep it. I have had two and both have run fine. Do I think they would stand up to 15-20k a year? Hell no. But a full size steel 1911 or HK45 is not a viable carry option for me.

http://gallery.me.com/timetravelfoundation/100038/IMG_0848/web.jpg?ver=12421468320001