View Full Version : Sick of getting hit in the face with brass from my 1911
decodeddiesel
06-04-09, 10:15
Here's the story, I finally got my Park Loaded back form the Custom Shop/Warranty repair after a 10 week wait. I must say I am very impressed and pleased with the Custom Shop work. I wish I could say the same with the warranty work.
Among the reasons I sent it back in was the fact that the pistol has a nasty habit of hitting me in the face with hot brass. I had hoped they would have gotten it sorted out at the factory, but they did not.
Last night I fired 200 rounds from the pistol at the local indoor range. I shot 100 rounds of 230gr WWB FMJs and 100 rounds of 220gr PMP FMJs. The pistol was amazing in every way....except for the fact that I got nailed in the face at least 6 times by hot brass, and I had one fly just past my face, down the back of my shirt and burn the crap out of me. Yes I was wearing a ball cap (which deflected a number away from my face) and wrap around safety glasses luckily. The RO saw it happen and came over to commend me on my muzzle discipline while getting the hell burnt out of me. He is a retired LEO and a 1911 aficionado. He told me I probably needed a new extractor. I offered for him to fire the pistol, and sure enough on his second shot he got nailed in the face too. We both had a laugh about it, but needless to say this is wearing on my patience.
I don't want to send the pistol back in, so last night I fired off an order to Brownells for an EGW firing pin stop and an Ed Brown "Hardcore" S70 Extractor.
I have found some good "how to's" on fitting the extractor, but my one question is, how much fitting and shaping/polishing does the extractor need out of the box? I know I will have to adjust the tension and I am comfortable doing that, but changing the geometry of the extractor is something I am not too comfortable with. Also if people who have used both the Wilson "Bulletproof" and the Ed Brown "Hardcore" can tell me one is better than the other I will send back the Ed Brown and get the Wilson.
Thanks.
JiMfraRED1911
06-04-09, 10:55
I think this is where the EJECTOR comes into play, not so much the extractor.
FWIW, I have Wilson's Bulletproof extractor fitted to my Loaded, along with a fitted spare. So far, so good, but I've only put 300 downrange since I got it back from Quantico. The real test comes this weekend at South Hill.
JiMfraRED1911
06-04-09, 10:59
"but changing the geometry of the extractor is something I am not too comfortable with."
If you doubt yourself, hire a focused student of the 1911. Just my .02 cents.
Thomas M-4
06-04-09, 11:05
I think this is where the EJECTOR comes into play, not the so much the extractor.
FWIW, I have Wilson's Bulletproof extractor fitted to my Loaded, along with a fitted spare. So far, so good, but I've only put 300 downrange since I got it back from Quantico. The rest test comes this weekend at South Run.
Thats what I thought too.
I am not a 1911 expert but I always thought the ejector had more control over ejection pattern than the extractor.
Business_Casual
06-04-09, 12:53
Shop manual says check the bottom angle on the extractor and stone (dress) to correct. Ejector is not mentioned in that context, only in the context of shells having "poor" ejection.
M_P
decodeddiesel
06-04-09, 12:56
Shop manual says check the bottom angle on the extractor and stone (shape) to correct. Ejector is not mentioned in that context, only in the context of shells having "poor" ejection.
M_P
That was my understanding as well.
Thomas M-4
06-04-09, 14:54
Just looked through the 2nd edition gunsmithing pistol & revolvers
states that standard ejectors are designed to toss empties up and out. The extended ejector is designed to toss empties to the side.
The angle on the ejector is there to lever out empties cases.
I am by know means a 1911 expert it could very well be the extractor.
My guess is that if the extractor is clocking, or rotating in its tunnel, it might play a part in erratic ejection. The EGW fp stop will probably correct that. Here's a pic describing all the surfaces of an extractor.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/Hershel_Van/extractor.gif
You might also send a PM to Wichaka. He's a 1911 armorer and has helped me out a lot on one of the 1911 forums.
Hth
decodeddiesel
06-04-09, 16:35
My guess is that if the extractor is clocking, or rotating in its tunnel, it might play a part in erratic ejection. The EGW fp stop will probably correct that. Here's a pic describing all the surfaces of an extractor.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/Hershel_Van/extractor.gif
You might also send a PM to Wichaka. He's a 1911 armorer and has helped me out a lot on one of the 1911 forums.
Hth
Hersh, the more and more I am reading about this the more and more I think you are correct.
I wish I had the pistol in front of me to better diagnose the problem, but shouldn't an oversized FPS and new extractor fix the problem?
Hersh, the more and more I am reading about this the more and more I think you are correct.
I wish I had the pistol in front of me to better diagnose the problem, but shouldn't an oversized FPS and new extractor fix the problem?
Yeah in theory if the fp stop is fitted really well to the extractor it should eliminate any clocking. I'd strongly urge you to contact Wichaka also. I understand the theory behind these modifications, but he's forgotten more about 1911s than I'll ever know and could help you with the finer points.
He carries a 1911 for his duty weapon and has helped me diagnose several problems. He's GTG and always glad to help!
decodeddiesel
06-04-09, 17:04
Will do, thanks Hersh!
Just a quick note on the brand name parts you mentioned. One of my best friends is a custom 1911 builder and has used both brands extensively in his shop. I've spent many hours over the last 5-6 years helping him out and I have never seen an Ed Brown part come back due to any type of failure. I have seen the Wilson Combat Bulletproof stuff come back often enough that he quit using most Wilson parts and went to Ed Brown stuff almost exsclusively. The only Wilson stuff he uses now are safeties. Take it for what it's worth, but that's what I've seen.
decodeddiesel
06-04-09, 22:18
Bad apple in the bunch, nevermind.
JiMfraRED1911
06-04-09, 23:44
My guess is that if the extractor is clocking, or rotating in its tunnel, it might play a part in erratic ejection. The EGW fp stop will probably correct that. Here's a pic describing all the surfaces of an extractor.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/Hershel_Van/extractor.gif
You might also send a PM to Wichaka. He's a 1911 armorer and has helped me out a lot on one of the 1911 forums.
Hth
Most likely, THIS.
decodeddiesel
06-07-09, 21:30
I have fit an EGW over-sized FPS and Ed Brown Hardcore Extractor. I will try to test fire sometime this week. I am really hoping this is it for this gun.
SwatDawg15
06-08-09, 01:45
My guess is that if the extractor is clocking, or rotating in its tunnel, it might play a part in erratic ejection. The EGW fp stop will probably correct that. Here's a pic describing all the surfaces of an extractor.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/Hershel_Van/extractor.gif
You might also send a PM to Wichaka. He's a 1911 armorer and has helped me out a lot on one of the 1911 forums.
Hth
Another vote for the above..
decodeddiesel
07-08-09, 23:43
Just wanted to post a quick update, I fitted the oversized firing pin stop and the EB Extractor. The pistol functions well, though I think now I need to purchase the extractor tension gauges so I don't have to guess. One thing after another...
The extractor holds on to the case rim and pulls the case out of the chamber.
The timing of the ejector determines whether it consistently pokes you in the noggin or out to the side where it's supposed to go.
If the cases were being consistently extracted (which you indicated) then the nose of your ejector needs to be longer so the rollover occurs earlier (kicking out and right).
JiMfraRED1911
07-09-09, 00:42
The extractor holds on to the case rim and pulls the case out of the chamber.
The timing of the ejector determines whether it consistently pokes you in the noggin or out to the side where it's supposed to go.
If the cases were being consistently extracted (which you indicated) then the nose of your ejector needs to be longer so the rollover occurs earlier (kicking out and right).
So...I was right earlier?
The extractor holds on to the case rim and pulls the case out of the chamber.
The timing of the ejector determines whether it consistently pokes you in the noggin or out to the side where it's supposed to go.
If the cases were being consistently extracted (which you indicated) then the nose of your ejector needs to be longer so the rollover occurs earlier (kicking out and right).
Well, he can't "cut some back on" for sure ;), so a new ejector is probably needed. They are a labor of love afterall. Good luck!
So...I was right earlier?
From Kuhnhausen's The US M1911/M1911A1 Pistols & Commercial M1911 type Pistols -- A Shop Manual, Volume II, Heritage - VSP, McCall, Idaho 1997, p. 44:
"(A) Standard ejector
Standard ejection timing mode: Ordnance spec. M1911, M1911A1, and M1911 type pistols eject fired cases upward & to the right (more upward than right).
(B) Late NM or long ejector
Long ejectors advance ejection timing in direct proportion to forward extension length and help eject fired cases in a more horizontal plane...
Timed release magazines and slide porting are both recommended when long ejectors are used."
JiMfraRED1911
07-09-09, 11:07
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__Z6U2lK1SHU/SX2YctnK06I/AAAAAAAAA0E/N30sTRr233Q/s320/success_baby1.jpg
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.