View Full Version : NYPD considering "smart guns"
What a joke.
http://officer.com/web/online/Top-News-Stories/NYPD-Considers-Smart-Guns/1$46993
The NYPD wants to use "smart" guns in order to avoid future friendly-fire incidents.
In the wake of the tragic death of Officer Omar Edwards at the hands of another cop, the NYPD said the department is looking at new technology to help avoid future incidents, officials said today.
Police-issued guns -- still under development by the Pacific Northwestern Laboratory -- would be outfitted with a computer chip that would emit a sound or a beam of light when drawn from the holster.
The gun would resemble something out of a James Bond movie with technology that would make clear that the other person was holding a department-issued weapon.
Both people armed with the weapon would be notified of the danger -- although the trigger would not automatically lock, the department said.
"In discussions with Pacific Northewest National Laboratories on the possibility of adapting research they have conducted with [radio frequency] tags to integrate the technology into police equipment to minimize the danger an officer on officer confrontation situations," the department said in a statement.
Uniformed, plainclothes and off-duty weapons would all be armed with this technology.
If the plan is implemented, the NYPD would be the first police force in the nation to use this type of technology.
So if three NYPD officers enter a room, their RF emitters will cause all three of their guns to give off a beacon pointing out where they are located?
Brilliant. You know, I've often considered lobotomizing myself and then applying for a job as a senior LE administrator.
Anything to 'help' the bad guys!!!!! What ever happened to stealth and not letting anyone know you are there with your gun drawn????????
I'm sure that the LE management has thought this through very throughly!!!:rolleyes:
M4tographer
06-06-09, 16:45
Brilliant. You know, I've often considered lobotomizing myself and then applying for a job as a senior LE administrator.
Why would you want to over-qualify yourself? :D
Face_N_The_Crowd
06-06-09, 16:47
My first thought is of those beepers that go off when a service truck is put into reverse.
They should put one on a SIMs gun and let the designers clear a building in the dark.
Does this mean that NYC LEO's should kiss their semi-affordable back-up guns goodbye ?
Or are those already banned by the NYC elected "leaders" and their lackeys?
:confused:
They should put one on a SIMs gun and let the designers clear a building in the dark.
Wouldn't that be great?
When I was at SIG, one of my customer agencies offered to put our CEO in a Sim scenario so he could see first hand what would happen if a gun jammed in the middle of a fight.
He declined. :rolleyes:
This is just perfect. Instead of training their officers to a reasonable level of proficiency they can just buy a new fancy thing that will solve all of their problems without wasting time on those pesky things like training, weapons maintenance and tactics. They'd be better of with a bunch of guys that can throw rocks really really well than with poorly trained officers with a fancy new ray gun. Especially when they forget to bring the AAs for their pistol.
Wouldn't that be great?
When I was at SIG, one of my customer agencies offered to put our CEO in a Sim scenario so he could see first hand what would happen if a gun jammed in the middle of a fight.
He declined. :rolleyes:
Love it!!!! There are so many people that I would love to try this on
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-06-09, 19:08
You can not technoligize decision making like that. Since it doesn't smell, sound, taste like a cop, so they can shoot? Of course how long until fake IFF units get out and cops get popped when they hesitate? I'm all for cops-not-shooting-cops, but it would be nice if they didn't pop any of us civies either.
How about CCW for citzens so the BGs are forced out of business.
Of course, the next step would be that all guns would have ot have the IFF so that cops can't get shot (yeah, right). That is about as likely as BGs wearing IFF that says "shoot me".
Is there really enough statisical evidence to support the need for a device such as this? I seriously doubt it, whether it be in New York or any other city in the world.
What this will serve to do is set a series of precidents that can and will then be used by Liberal Minded Departments and Politicians in other Cities like Los Angelas, Chicago, Atlanta etc...to initate legislation for such safety devices in the civilian market.
After all we civies don't have the same level and proper training to handle a firearm safely.<----Sarcasm intended.:rolleyes:
NYPD should try some smart cops instead. There low entry level salary and no political support, they are forced to hire the lowest common denominator. The anti gun philosophy of NY teaches it's Cops ,Gun = Bad Guy.
Littlelebowski
06-06-09, 20:41
Technology can obviate the need for training! :rolleyes:
This is just perfect. Instead of training their officers to a reasonable level of proficiency they can just buy a new fancy thing that will solve all of their problems without wasting time on those pesky things like training, weapons maintenance and tactics. They'd be better of with a bunch of guys that can throw rocks really really well than with poorly trained officers with a fancy new ray gun. Especially when they forget to bring the AAs for their pistol.
My thoughts exactly. In my personal opinion, there is no substitute for proper training. NYC should really consider putting the money they would spend on these new devices(which I'm sure aren't cheap) into better training for their officers.
This is just perfect. Instead of training their officers to a reasonable level of proficiency they can just buy a new fancy thing that will solve all of their problems without wasting time on those pesky things like training, weapons maintenance and tactics. They'd be better of with a bunch of guys that can throw rocks really really well than with poorly trained officers with a fancy new ray gun. Especially when they forget to bring the AAs for their pistol.
That is how they think in The NEW YORK NANNY STATE. No personal responsibility and all problems can be solved with a new law or policy.
NYPD should try some smart cops instead.
That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. One of the smartest people I know was a NYPD cop, and more than one reads this forum. Just because someone is willing to work for less money than you doesn't make him stupid. Maybe he's just, oh I don't know, less selfish?
</rant>
CarlosDJackal
06-07-09, 00:26
A technological answer to a human question. Even with all the IFF technology that is in use by our military forces, fracticide is still a reality.
I don't understand how these morons cannot fathom the possibility that this very same technology will not be put into use by the BGs as well. :confused:
TUNNEL RAT 33
06-07-09, 00:59
this is a knee-jerk reaction to a friendly fire incident where a offduty cop was chasing a perp with his firearm drawn . when responding officers yelled for him to stop and drop his weapon - he turned on officers pointing his firearm in their direction . unfortunately they fired on him not realizing he was a brother officer . his shield was found in his pocket , he did not survive .
the problem is that the nypd is too big . with nearly 35,000 cops there is never enough training that is actually beneficial to working the streets . mostly it is cover your ass training to avoid lawsuits , or to hang out the cop when things go bad .
if the city of new york , which is always crying about being broke , wants to purchase me 2 new weapons and all the leather gear assiciated with them , and all the new training that goes with it , i say bring it on .. i have a better chance of being struck by lightning .and yes while a stupid idea , i remind the members here that last year a new york state representative threw out the idea of putting video cameras on nypd guns . we're still waiting for those ..
It must be the gun's fault so getting a new gun is the answer. Surely NYPD training and procedure had nothing to do with this tragedy, if that were the case then someone would have to be held accountable.
Why is it when there is an incident like this the so called "smart" elected officials always want to throw money at a pointless change? Are they forgetting they're probably next in line behind California for their spending habits. It seems like there is something in the water leading to about every politician in this country's home/office. It seems doing the right/intelligent thing has become an extinct practice. It's a shame the officer lost his life and even more of a shame that the endless spool of red tape in NYC is probably the main cause for situations like this.
i remind the members here that last year a new york state representative threw out the idea of putting video cameras on nypd guns . we're still waiting for those ..
Dude this gives me a great idea, they could add a remote so that the folks in Albany can pull the trigger instead of the lowly civil servant who couldn't possibly be smart enough to make that decision.:D
This is ridiculous on so many levels, I completely agree with the poster who mentioned the currently military IFF technology analogy.
I seem to recall an incident in the Afgan War where a team of Special Forces whom anyone here would agree is very highly trained, sent instructions to an orbiting B-52 crew, another group one could argue is very highly trained.
The SF requested a bomb drop, the B-52 crew did just that and put the ordnance exactly where the SF wanted it, which turned out to be right on top of their own position.
In the end the failure was a dead battery in a GPS unit, when the SF changed the battery the GPS defaulted to its very own position, not the position the SF calculated before the battery died.
In the heat of battle there will always be friendly fire casualties and if a cop can't accept that he or she needs to find another line of work.
this is a knee-jerk reaction to a friendly fire incident where a offduty cop was chasing a perp with his firearm drawn . when responding officers yelled for him to stop and drop his weapon - he turned on officers pointing his firearm in their direction . unfortunately they fired on him not realizing he was a brother officer . his shield was found in his pocket , he did not survive .
This happens all to often. I went through a class where the instructor repeatedly told us that if we were ever involved in a shooting, and when the responding officers show,DROP YOUR DAMN GUN. You can pick it back up afterwords.
the problem is that the nypd is too big . with nearly 35,000 cops there is never enough training that is actually beneficial to working the streets . mostly it is cover your ass training to avoid lawsuits , or to hang out the cop when things go bad .
if the city of new york , which is always crying about being broke , wants to purchase me 2 new weapons and all the leather gear associated with them , and all the new training that goes with it , i say bring it on .. i have a better chance of being struck by lightning .and yes while a stupid idea , i remind the members here that last year a new york state representative threw out the idea of putting video cameras on nypd guns . we're still waiting for those ..
Brain dead politicians, just trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator:rolleyes:
That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. One of the smartest people I know was a NYPD cop, and more than one reads this forum. Just because someone is willing to work for less money than you doesn't make him stupid. Maybe he's just, oh I don't know, less selfish?
</rant>
Todd, of course NYPD has intelligent,dedicated and qualified Officers.
TUNNEL RAT 33
06-07-09, 11:25
just like any dept we have great officers and we also have some bad ones . unfortunately all it takes is one second to ruin 2 lives , the shooter and the rookie officer who was chasing a perp with his gun drawn and his id in his pocket . we are told over and over again not to turn when being confronted while wearing plainclothes - sometimes it takes every ounce of will power to fight the natural urge to turn , as i have been in this situation a few times on both ends of the gun . unfortunately the majority of the guys i work with frown on attending outside training . they dont want to spend the money , and dont want to appear to be a gun nut . the few of us that do train and shoot when ever and where ever have learned a few things over the years and hopefully that will give us a edge .
, and dont want to appear to be a gun nut . That is truly sad
Heavy Metal
06-07-09, 14:38
That is truly sad
Yep, it is hard to be a sheep and a sheepdog at the same time.
TUNNEL RAT 33
06-08-09, 00:51
after 12 years as a cop in the worst part of brooklyn , i can honestly say that some people become cops to make some sort of difference and the others take the job for the benefits .
Knowing more than I care to about NYPD politics, I am not at all surprised.
John_Wayne777
06-08-09, 05:38
What a joke.
http://officer.com/web/online/Top-News-Stories/NYPD-Considers-Smart-Guns/1$46993
Jesus H....
A beam of light or sound when the weapon is drawn?? Because it's completely inconceivable that a cop might need to sneak up on somebody, right?
The push for "smart guns" in some LE circles is a symptom of a much deeper defect in thinking. When one believes they have smart cops, they don't really seek out smart GUNS. Seeking to spend money on making guns more intelligent rather than using those resources to better train your officers is evidence of piss poor decision making by the people in charge. Here's a better idea: Hire quality people and TRAIN THEM. Don't just issue them a handgun with a 97 pound trigger and a bunch of goofy electronic shit that beeps and lights up.
The guys who make the NYPD work day in and day out have my respect. Frankly I don't know why they continue to work for a city who hates their guts and hires idiots to manage them.
Shadow1198
06-08-09, 21:33
F'in S! Is it just me or does it seem like some LE departments just go out of their goddamn way to do things the wrong way?! Sometimes it just seems like they try EVERYTHING else except the right way.
TUNNEL RAT 33
06-09-09, 00:12
its all about being politically correct and not hurting anyones feelings.
dirksterg30
06-09-09, 11:06
This is just perfect. Instead of training their officers to a reasonable level of proficiency they can just buy a new fancy thing that will solve all of their problems without wasting time on those pesky things like training, weapons maintenance and tactics. They'd be better of with a bunch of guys that can throw rocks really really well than with poorly trained officers with a fancy new ray gun. Especially when they forget to bring the AAs for their pistol.
In other words, they're looking for a hardware solution to a software problem.
Undercover cops would get them too? That's awesome so when the undercover cop comes into contact with another cop his cover is blown. ****ing brilliant, how did they not think about this earlier?!?!
The guys who make the NYPD work day in and day out have my respect. Frankly I don't know why they continue to work for a city who hates their guts and hires idiots to manage them.
JW,
Someone has to do it. Many men and women, since the American Revolution, have sacrificed their lives to make this a great country. They, too, have been told don't get involved but they didn't listen and did what was the right thing to do. This is what it's all about, DOING THE RIGHT THING despite the negatives of being an NYPD officer. If no one takes this job, then who will? It is unfortunate people have taken this great United States of America for granted and either forgotten or just plain don't know the history of this great nation. The bottom line? The people who reside in NYC has to be protected from low lives who take advantage and prey on the innocent - it could be your family members or friends. September 11, 2001 was the proudest moment in the history of the NYPD but it has since faded in memory and long gone.
What happens when batteries fail? Guns are stolen from police, their cars or sold illegally from the PD? It also probably wouldn't take too much work to have these cloned so that bad guys will appear to be good guys as well.
JW,
The people who reside in NYC has to be protected from low lives who take advantage and prey on the innocent
I know you are right, but part of me has to wonder, if they were on their own a little more, than maybe they would wake up to reality.
I know you are right, but part of me has to wonder, if they were on their own a little more, than maybe they would wake up to reality.
Yeah, any third world country for a year will do and I'm sorry sir/madam you are not allow re-entry.
Yeah, any third world country for a year will do and I'm sorry sir/madam you are not allow re-entry.
Love it
1859sharps
06-09-09, 23:50
As someone who works with technology for a living... this is a bad, bad idea. sometimes low tech is still the best answer.
when its all done and deployed I give the bad guys half the time it took to develop, to learn to exploit it.
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