View Full Version : Glock 19 malfunction
I bought a used G19 last year that's started giving me problems. It's failing to eject the spent round and the case is getting stuck under the extractor. I have to lock the slide to the rear, remove the magazine, and forcibly remove the case.
Needs a new extractor & spring? Good source? 2nd Gen (no finger grooves or rail) different than current production? Tips/tricks for install?
How often do you strip the slide to clean the extractor?
Some get brass shavings bound up and just need to be cleaned.
Clearly, you're limp wristing. :cool:
Is the mouth of the case slamming into the barrel hood? If so, congrats, you've had one of the NYPD Phase III malfunctions that people still claim never happened.
I'd start with KevinB's advice, simply remove the extractor and make sure the channel is properly cleaned. Check to see if the extractor itself is damaged in any way, and take a look at the ejector just for the heck of it.
Given that the problem isn't uncommon and isn't easily fixed if you've got a "bad" G19, I'd sideline the pistol to range duty only until you're 100% certain the situation has resolved itself.
I'm starting to think this goddamn gun is curse, and I should just mail it back to the original owner with instructions on how to shove it up his ass.
I have a Gen III with the rail and finger grooves so I can move that to carry duty in the meantime.
30 cal slut
06-08-09, 10:29
i order glock parts from glockmeister.com, if that helps.
I figure it wouldn't hurt to have a spare extractor. Anyone know which one I need? there's 90 degree, 15 degree, 15 degree/5... no idea what all this means. Looks like they're saying the 90 degree for the Glock 19, does this sound right?
Rob if it is a Second Generation Gun it can't be fixed. There is a inherent design flaw with G19 II gen that causes this to happen only in some guns. when I was with NYPD your problem was huge with the 19. I saw it often and is a problem that is inherent to the gun and lead to Gen III development with a stronger frame that flex's less. Here are a few links.
www.thegunzone.com/glock/phase3.html
www.thegunzone.com/glock/phase3a.html
www.thegunzone.com/glock/upgrade-faq.html
Good luck Steve
matthewdanger
06-08-09, 11:04
Rob, if you look down at the top of the ejection port over the extrator does the front of the breechface and side of slide create a 90 angle or is it greater than 90 degrees? This angle will dictate which extractor you need. The earlier G19s had the 90 degree extractors.
To further complicate things, the newst 3rd Gen models have an LCI (loaded chamber indicator) extractor. Yours, being 2nd Gen, will not be an LCI extractor.
I get most of my parts from OMBExpress. They may be able to help you determine which part you need.
I will try to post pics of both extractors when I get home from work.
What Todd said. Is the case mouth getting mashed against the barrel hood? My 1989 vintage G19 has done that at least once in about 10,000 rounds, though it was reducible with a very vigorous TRB.
Depending on the age of the gun, it might require a new striker, trigger bar, extraction system, and firing pin safety.
NM, someone posted my links 3 minutes before I did.
LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR. If you have a Glock 19 that Phase IIIs It can not be fixed so don't waste you time or money trying to do so. It is a flawed design. Put you jamming upper on your Gen III frame and watch the problem disappear.
LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR. If you have a Glock 19 that Phase IIIs It can not be fixed so don't waste you time or money trying to do so. It is a flawed design. Put you jamming upper on your Gen III frame and watch the problem disappear.
Interesting. I didn't know that.
We haven't established yet that the OP is experiencing a Phase 3, though. Sort of sounds like it, though.
Half subject to jamming
NY Daily News: 21 August 2002
by Bob Kappstatter & Alice McQuillan
More than half of the Police Department's handguns are subject to jam without warn*ing, a potentially dangerous flaw that can leave the weapons a "useless as paperweights," police sources said.
Although the jamming is rare, the NYPD has been con*cerned enough to order a recall of 24,000 semiauto*mat*ic Glock handguns so they can be refitted.
This problem affects the Glock Model 19 – the gun carried by about 60% of the department's 39,000 officers. The flaw, in which the shell casing fails to eject, has only arisen during practice and tests at the NYPD firing range, officials say.
"Our studies have shown this to be a rare occurrence," said police spokesman Chief Michael Collins. "In the worst-case scenario… we esti*ma*ted that this has happened only once in 450,000 times when fired."
However, during an actual gun battle in Brooklyn, two Emergency Service Unit Officers reported that their Glocks failed. Collins said that after and investigation of the October 2000 incident, ballistics experts said what*ever problem those guns had, it was not the jamming malfunction that is the subject of the current recall.
To correct the problem, the Austrian-based Glock com*pany has sent engineers to the NYPD's firing range at Rodman's Neck in the Bronx. Since June, they have re*pair*ed 3,200 weapons in a pro*cedure that takes about an hour. Immediately afterward, officers tested the refitted weapons at the range, where the results have been ex*cell*ent, Collins said. The process will continue until all 24,000 Glocks are fixed, he said.
There is a delay in fixing all the weapons, sources said, because cutbacks and the redeployment of officers to special details have made it difficult for cops to schedule time to have their guns repaired.
Sources also said that some of the Glocks have a different problem – locking. When a gun locks, a user can get it functioning again by re*mov*ing the clip and holding the ammunition and manually moving the slide to eject the stuck shell casing.
In that scenario, the source said, "You can be back in the gun battle in a matter of seconds, as opposed to the total jam where the guns become [as] useless as paperweights."
...functioning again by removing the CLIP...
how this looks is about how it sounds in my ears every time i hear that word used in place of "magazine"
how this looks is about how it sounds in my ears every time i hear that word used in place of "magazine"
It is the NY Daily News, I'm sure they use the proper terminology when describing homosexual relations or how to commit treason. But firearms nomenclature, they don't have a clue.
how this looks is about how it sounds in my ears every time i hear that word used in place of "magazine"
It just grates my ears to pieces as well
but my favorite part is the bit about "jamming without warning" like there is a collision alarm or and idiot light or a little voice like the "gun about to jam"
Littlelebowski
06-08-09, 13:42
It is the NY Daily News, I'm sure they use the proper terminology when describing homosexual relations or how to commit treason.
Made me laugh out loud :D
John Fettes
06-08-09, 15:45
I think that Jon gave you the best advice to solve your problems, go to Glock.
FWIW, I've had a Gen 2 G19 for about 20 years. It has worked just fine. For some reason, I thought that the NYCPD Phase III problems had been with the more recent Gen III guns.
John
matthewdanger
06-08-09, 15:56
If these are the dreaded type III malfunctions then extractor replacement may not be the answer but here is that pic I promised anyway.
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5076/glockextractors.jpg
I highlighted areas I was talking about so you should be able to determine if you need the 90 degree extractor (often referred to as the "old style") or the newer 15 degree non-LCI. These are both 2nd Gen G17s. The 15 degree is on the left, and the 90 degree is on the right.
I hope that helps.
well that seems correctable to me- if the bevel is the only difference between malfunctioning and not. simply put a bevel on the 2nd gen gun, and buy a 15 extractor.
no?
matthewdanger
06-08-09, 16:20
well that seems correctable to me- if the bevel is the only difference between malfunctioning and not. simply put a bevel on the 2nd gen gun, and buy a 15 extractor.
no?
Glock will perform that very modification for a small fee.
It might be as simple as that-or not. Again, rather than attempting to address potential problem areas one at a time, and hoping that each individual fix resolves the problem, my suggestion would be to have Glock (or an experienced credible Glock Armorer) systemically go through the entire gun-including the magazines.
If the original poster does need the 15 degree bevel made, it'll (or at least the slide) will have to go to Glock at Smyrna anyhow. Better to have everything examined as an entire package at once, even if you do have to pay the overnight fee to get the darn thing there.
Other than the cost of getting the gun to them, Glock has a superb reputation for thoroughly going through guns; in all liklihood the original poster will end up with a virtually new gun in the original slide and frame.
Best, Jon
This thing is a real mess though. Barrel has been hard-chromed, as has the takedown lever, the slide has been refinished in some kind of bake-on crap, etc.
This thing is a real mess though. Barrel has been hard-chromed, as has the takedown lever, the slide has been refinished in some kind of bake-on crap, etc.
Ahhhh. Mailing it back to the original owner with a friendly note and a bottle of personal lubricant is sounding better by the minute.
Call Glock, explain the situation to them, what your problems are, ask what they can do, and see what they say.
And, not to bust your chops after the fact, but did you know that if you're LE, military, a first responder, reserve/retired from any of the above, that you'd likely qualify for the Glock First Responders Program, where you can buy a brand new G19 with 3 magazines for $398-or, if you don't qualify for that program, you can pay $35 to join GSSF, and concurrently with mailing your membership & check in ask for a gun certificate entitling you to purchase a G19 for the same price under the GSSF member program (usually {depending upon the distributor/participating retailer} with 2 magazines (instead of the 3 in the previous program package)?
When you're calling Glock, ask for a copy of the current Glock Annual, where the qualification list of First Responders is laid out...for GSSF, go to www.gssfonline.com
Best, Jon
This thing is a real mess though. Barrel has been hard-chromed, as has the takedown lever, the slide has been refinished in some kind of bake-on crap, etc.
I wouldn't bet on the Phase III malfunctions after reading this...
It sounds to me like someone dicked around with it and possibly screwed it up.
matthewdanger
06-08-09, 18:54
This thing is a real mess though. Barrel has been hard-chromed, as has the takedown lever, the slide has been refinished in some kind of bake-on crap, etc.
In my experience, Glock is very forgiving with this kind of thing. I would definitely contact them.
And, not to bust your chops after the fact, but did you know that if you're LE, military, a first responder, reserve/retired from any of the above, that you'd likely qualify for the Glock First Responders Program, where you can buy a brand new G19 with 3 magazines for $398-or, if you don't qualify for that program, you can pay $35 to join GSSF, and concurrently with mailing your membership & check in ask for a gun certificate entitling you to purchase a G19 for the same price under the GSSF member program (usually {depending upon the distributor/participating retailer} with 2 magazines (instead of the 3 in the previous program package)?
When you're calling Glock, ask for a copy of the current Glock Annual, where the qualification list of First Responders is laid out...for GSSF, go to www.gssfonline.com
None of which would get me a Glock without those goddamn finger grooves on the frame. ;)
Yeah but being where you are...
a short trip nearby can do this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/IMG_0830.jpg
I've been talking to Ben about that, but...
I'm torn on the cost impact of doing the grip mods. I'm interested in Glocks because they are cheap throwaway guns. Putting hundreds of dollars (not to mention wait time) into grip mods kind of goes against the reason I want to use the Glock to begin with.
I've been talking to Ben about that, but...
I'm torn on the cost impact of doing the grip mods. I'm interested in Glocks because they are cheap throwaway guns. Putting hundreds of dollars (not to mention wait time) into grip mods kind of goes against the reason I want to use the Glock to begin with.
I've gone through these motions too. I didn't have any "interest" in Glock; I thought that I should be familiar with a pistol that I'd pick and use off the shelf if I were to lose access to all my pistols. Few months later and few hundred bucks poorer, I have my new carry pistol. I did try to make sure that the type and amount of customization did not contradict my original purpose, though.
Rob, another route potentially worth exploring Glockwise might be the new RTF2 frame; they're currently available in the G22, are becoming available in the G17, and will become available in the G19. I liked the feel-while essentially it's still the Gen III frame, it does seem to somewhat minimize (or perhaps just blend better) the fingergrooves.
I personally prefer the Gen III frames, as for me the fingergrooves, thumb indentations and slightly revised rear tang position the gun just right for an instinctive point.
However, that's just me-and here's hoping that Glock can bring a satisfactory conclusion to your Glock's woes so that you can trust, enjoy, and appreciate yours for what it can be.
Best, Jon
Sandpaper is cheap, and plastic is easy to "gunsmith".
Just sayin.
I had some clown come in here last week asking how many clips he was supposed to get for his G19 and M4. I told him that I don't have any and that they would need to be special ordered. I did offer him some magazines though. :p
It is the NY Daily News, I'm sure they use the proper terminology when describing homosexual relations or how to commit treason. But firearms nomenclature, they don't have a clue.
Robb Jensen
06-11-09, 06:28
Wow Kevin. That turned out VERY nice. :D
Phase III and finger grooves is why I prefer Gen 2 Glock 19s. My concealed carry gun is a 1989 model Glock 19.
I sometimes wonder if the Phase III can be fixed by going back to a non-LCI extractor and the older thicker black spring loaded bearing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/hatfieldgunsmiffin/hatfieldgrip14.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/hatfieldgunsmiffin/hatfieldgrip15.jpg
Yeah but being where you are...
a short trip nearby can do this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/IMG_0830.jpg
Phase III and finger grooves is why I prefer Gen 2 Glock 19s.
I admit to a large amount of ignorance of the subject, but aren't Gen II Glock 19s the ones with the potential for Phase III problems?
I've always categorized Gen I Glocks as the very early ones without the captured recoil spring and smoother grips (maybe there were only G17s in Gen I?), Gen II as the later versions with the captured guide rod & spring and the rougher frame, and Gen III as the current version with the finger grooves and light rail added.
Gen I G17
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/800px-Adam27s_Guns_Glock17Gen1.jpg
Robb Jensen
06-11-09, 07:05
I've never heard of Phase III malfunctions with 1 pin Glock 19s (Gen 2). Some Gen 3 Glock 19s are 1 pin frames (I don't know if these suffered from Phase III or not, I think some did). Now all Glocks are 2 pin frames. Glock did this so that they can use the same frame on the G19, 23, 25 and 32. Before the 19 and 25 had different frames than the 23 and 32.
My Glock 19 (1989 gun) came with a non captured recoil spring, it didn't pass the armorers test so I replaced it when I bought it. Mine also needed the 'upgraded' parts (striker, FP safety & spring, connector, extractor, spring loaded bearing, depressor plunger, ejector/trigger housing w/ejector, extr. spring and trigger bar). I also upgraded the slide lock spring to the newer type and installed a new locking block and slide lock.
I've never heard of Phase III malfunctions with 1 pin Glock 19s (Gen 2). Some Gen 3 Glock 19s are 1 pin frames (I don't know if these suffered from Phase III or not, I think some did). Now all Glocks are 2 pin frames. Glock did this so that they can use the same frame on the G19, 23, 25 and 32. Before the 19 and 25 had different frames than the 23 and 32.
My Glock 19 (1989 gun) came with a non captured recoil spring, it didn't pass the armorers test so I replaced it when I bought it. Mine also needed the 'upgraded' parts (striker, FP safety & spring, connector, extractor, spring loaded bearing, depressor plunger, ejector/trigger housing w/ejector, extr. spring and trigger bar). I also upgraded the slide lock spring to the newer type and installed a new locking block and slide lock.
If a Phase 3 malfunction is what is on Dean Speir's page, I have had one in a 1 pin Glock 19, SN GM3xx, which I think was made in 1989. It was during a class. I was not able to get the slide to move, though someone with a more highly developed upper body :o was able to move it. It hasn't happened since, in a couple thousand rounds (I don't have my logbook here), but it makes me a little nervous.
I've never heard of Phase III malfunctions with 1 pin Glock 19s (Gen 2). Some Gen 3 Glock 19s are 1 pin frames (I don't know if these suffered from Phase III or not, I think some did). Now all Glocks are 2 pin frames. Glock did this so that they can use the same frame on the G19, 23, 25 and 32. Before the 19 and 25 had different frames than the 23 and 32.
My Glock 19 (1989 gun) came with a non captured recoil spring, it didn't pass the armorers test so I replaced it when I bought it. Mine also needed the 'upgraded' parts (striker, FP safety & spring, connector, extractor, spring loaded bearing, depressor plunger, ejector/trigger housing w/ejector, extr. spring and trigger bar). I also upgraded the slide lock spring to the newer type and installed a new locking block and slide lock.What is the recoil spring armorers test?
I noticed that your 19 has the Austrian proof marks on the frame, barrel and slide, (nice) but it still has Smyrna GA on the frame (same as the Gen I G17 pic).
I did notice the addition of the second pin to the Gen III G19s. A recent Austrian proofed G19 purchase shows the top pin (locking block pin?) looks different (rainbow metal color) from a non-Austrian proofed G19 pin (all black). Plus the Smyrna GA marking is under the trigger gurad.
Dug up the photo the seller originally sent me. note that the ejection port is down so I can't see the pimp-tastic chromed barrel. :mad:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/DSCI0082.jpg
thopkins22
06-12-09, 08:12
What is the recoil spring armorers test?
Dry fire the gun.
Pull the slide completely to the rear.
Holding the gun muzzle up, slowly allow the slide to return to battery under it's own power.
If it did not return fully to battery, your recoil spring is shot.
Robb Jensen
06-12-09, 08:16
Dry fire the gun.
Pull the slide completely to the rear.
Holding the gun muzzle up, slowly allow the slide to return to battery under it's own power.
If it did not return fully to battery, your recoil spring is shot.
Yep, I also continue holding the trigger to the rear.
thopkins22
06-12-09, 08:36
Yep, I also continue holding the trigger to the rear.
Does doing so put make the recoil spring work more or less? I'd rather replace it 500 rounds early and save some wear and tear on the gun.
Robb Jensen
06-12-09, 11:34
Does doing so put make the recoil spring work more or less? I'd rather replace it 500 rounds early and save some wear and tear on the gun.
The recoil will have to work more because it has to fight the striker spring since the trigger bar is keeping the striker to the rear.
It would have to do this while firing too if you're shooting to reset.
Guys, it's almost as if we're trying to see how many angels can dance on the head of a pin here regarding recoil spring/recoil spring assembly forecastable life.
Glock's position is to replace the things every 3K rounds. That said, I suspect that they'll last a LOT longer than that-particularly on the 9mm G19, G19, and G34 models.
In "The Glock In Competition" by Robin Taylor, David Sevigny is quoted that he rotates his out as a preventative maintenance measure every 5K to 10K rounds.
Obviously, lifespan can vary based on the loads used-I suspect that Glock's 3K recommendation is based on the NATO loading, which I believe is equivelant to +P+.
A replacement recoil spring assembly from Glock is $3; even with worst-case postage it'll run you less than $10....just get the part and call it good.
At a prudent minimum, on ANY new previously-owned gun that I get I automatically (and immediately) replace at least the recoil and magazine springs-otherwise you're inviting potential frame battering and inviting a potential gamut of problems (and time-consuming head-scratching diagnosis)-and wasting good ammunition.
Again, I still think that your best bet will be to have Glock thoroughly go through your gun...
Best, Jon
So was this issue ever resolved? I'm getting an itch for a Gen 2 19, and now I'm worried. And was this phase III situation ever a problem in the Gen 2 17s?
Still confused on the earlier issue. Supposedly 1-pin G19s don't have phase IIIs, and FWIW I have the 90* extractor.
shit makes my head hurt, so the short-term resolution is that I bought another Glock, and am turning the lil' woman's gun over to Boresight at some point for the grip reduction.
Jay Cunningham
07-12-09, 16:53
One of my Glock 19's was malfunctioning for a while; turns out it was a weak lot of ammo.
Definitely could be ammo related, but the same lot of ammo worked just fine for the rest of the class in a Gen III with about 1k rounds on it.
Robb Jensen
07-12-09, 20:56
Definitely could be ammo related, but the same lot of ammo worked just fine for the rest of the class in a Gen III with about 1k rounds on it.
Will it do it with 9mm +P, 9mm +P+ or 9mm NATO pressure ammo?
Honestly? I've kind of given up on it. I may eventually get around to messing with it some more, but this morning I pulled tthe sights, Tango Down mag release, etc. off of it to install on the new Glock. I love Gen II Glocks, and hate the finger grooves, but I'll just have to keep an eye out for another one at gunshows and whatnot.
ChristisKing
07-12-09, 21:03
I bought a used G19 last year that's started giving me problems. It's failing to eject the spent round and the case is getting stuck under the extractor. I have to lock the slide to the rear, remove the magazine, and forcibly remove the case.
Needs a new extractor & spring? Good source? 2nd Gen (no finger grooves or rail) different than current production? Tips/tricks for install?
This happened to my once after I cleaned my 19 years back. I realized I put the extractor in backwards. Check that out and I bet your problem is solved. It did the exact same thing you described. On my gun it would only do it about one every 40 to 50 rounds though, but I only put about 150 through it that day.
I haven't read the other posts yet, but I'm sure somebody already gave you that suggestion.
Heavy Metal
07-12-09, 21:27
Honestly? I've kind of given up on it. I may eventually get around to messing with it some more, but this morning I pulled tthe sights, Tango Down mag release, etc. off of it to install on the new Glock. I love Gen II Glocks, and hate the finger grooves, but I'll just have to keep an eye out for another one at gunshows and whatnot.
Why don't you send it back to Glock? They will likely fix it free of charge.
The 17s never had the phase III problems.
From talking to folks on NYPD who were around back then, you either had a G19 prone to those, or you didn't.
I'd send it back to Glock for repair.
Why don't you send it back to Glock? They will likely fix it free of charge.
I guess the way I look at it is "why bother?" I can't imagine they're going to pick up $50+ in shipping charges, and if I can find someone else that wants it, especially locally, even if I only get $300 out of it I'd still be better off.
I have no patience for horseshit like this. Guns work or they don't, and if they don't they go away. If this gun has an inherrent problem that no amount of spring-swapping, test firing, and other nonsense is going to correct, why waste the time going down that path?
When I posted this thread I was hoping for a "yea, just swap out the springs and you'll be GTG" kind of response. It turns out that the amount of potential foolishness has exceeded my attention span.
Maybe I'll take my Ritalin today and call up Glock, but I somehow doubt it. ;)
Rob send that POS G19 to Smith & Wesson maybe they can use it to profit from Glocks mistake or use it to sell some more M&Ps.
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