View Full Version : Some People Should Never Be Allowed Near An AR-15
OldNavyGuy
06-12-09, 08:40
strangest thing i and many other AR-15 shooters saw at our range yesterday, this guy shooting a flat top AR without any sights, one of our more diplomatic range masters went and talked to him, here is how it went,
RM: where is your sights?
Dummy: what sights ? this is the way i took it out of the box!!
RM: that model rifle requires iron sights or a scope.
Dummy: what do you mean "iron sights" ?
RM, after showing him iron sights: they look like this.
Dummy: well there weren't any in the box, so i guess i don't need them.
RM: have you hit the target yet ?
Dummy: no, i only fired 4 shots
several shooters and i just walked away shaking our heads and slapping our brow after that exchange, the RM asked him to put the "gun" on safe, remove the mag and eject the round in the chamber.., which actually the RM did it for him due to lack of knowledge and "sweeping" the line, then accompany him to a safe area, we later found out that his neighbor showed him how to load the mags how to insert them into the rifle, never told him how to use the safety.., plus he lied about reading the range rules, thanks to an alert RM this was an imminent disaster waiting to happen. all turned out well and the Dummy has agreed to being taught proper gun handling, safety etc. by this very competent retired Marine range master.
Littlelebowski
06-12-09, 08:47
He also shouldn't be allowed near any other guns for that matter. Not real keen on him operating vehicles either.
The range closest to me gets a lot of foreign tourists who have never held a gun in their life. I keep the eyes in the back of my head open.
Wow... I had thought I had seen some pretty dumb s#@t on the range. As I started reading I thought it would be one of thoes guys who just picked up the rifle the hour before (box, manual and packaging still in the car) and through sheer (and false) bravado absolutely must shoot the rifle before he gets it home, even if the scope is in the mail. That I have seen, a remington 700 with mount, rings and no scope, just lining up the rings and centering the target....
Guns attract retards.
We have a group of exceptionally special shooters in AZ. It's quite embarrassing.
There was a pic posted of an AZ shoot where one of the morons was blasting away on an AR with no sights, just like the idiot above. But this moron knew the difference. We call them dirt shooters or booger eaters, and there's a lot of them in AZ. They just go out and blast ammo into the side of a hill.
There are MANY people that should NEVER be allowed to own a firearm. We see them at shooting schools, at our shop and of course...........ONLINE!
C4
Derek_Connor
06-12-09, 09:53
Unless you have violent felonies in your record, mental defects, or any other legal matters not inclusive to this small list that prevents you from owning firearms, I could care less if someone wants to go blow rounds into a mountain or run a gun without iron sights, safely.
Who cares. :o
Littlelebowski
06-12-09, 09:56
Unless you have violent felonies in your record, mental defects, or any other legal matters not inclusive to this small list that prevents you from owning firearms, I could care less if someone wants to go blow rounds into a mountain or run a gun without iron sights.
Who cares. :o
I guess you missed the part where he didn't know how to work the safety.
Derek_Connor
06-12-09, 10:00
I guess you missed the part where he didn't know how to work the safety.
I did, but my reply was directed mostly to markm.
We all bitch about guns and how only "certain" people shouldn't have them..which has its own discussion all together.
Just literally think of the thousands of people we pass on a small 2 laned road everyday driving that we blindly trust not to slam into our cars going 60mph..
There are idiots out there..that is and will be a constant in our universe, no doubt.
Just remove yourself from that situation if you dont like it..
Littlelebowski
06-12-09, 10:03
Fair enough. After being shot in an ND, I'm a little tetchy :D
Derek_Connor
06-12-09, 10:06
Fair enough. After being shot in an ND, I'm a little tetchy :D
No worries, I can understand.
I would love to be able to go to any public range and walk to the line and not worry about getting shot, unfortunately, thats just not reality right now.
For those of who are serious, and dont want to get shot on a range by someone who just wants to make the gun go boom, its time to find private land.
Is this ideal? No. Costly? Yes. Further away? Probably..
Worth it? Definitely.
I would love to be able to go to any public range and walk to the line and not worry about getting shot, unfortunately, thats just not reality right now.
That's why as much as I hate the range nazis, I do understand that they have to run a range at the level of the lowest common denominator. And that is the type of shooter that the OP is writing about.
I just simply don't shoot at public ranges.
He also shouldn't be allowed near any other guns for that matter. Not real keen on him operating vehicles either.
Guns attract retards.
Absolute truth....
SwatDawg15
06-12-09, 10:24
"The AR platform is the cats meow cool factor for most people that have a boring life. It attracts some of everyone, and the 8 to 5 guys need the evil black rifle in their otherwise basic life. "
I saved that quote years ago. I can't remember where I even saw it, but I copied it to a .txt file. Every time I see a thread like this, I think of it.
Derek_Connor
06-12-09, 10:29
In any hobby you are going to find people of lower intelligence...
Cars, Bikes, Flying, Fishing, Skydiving, Sewing, Knitting, whatever. You cannot escape it.
It is just in our hobby, the risk of getting killed by another its higher.
Derek,
I bet there are more motorcycle related deaths from those bozo's attempting to jump over trucks and double wheelies while doing handstands and backflips. :D
IN all fairness I have fired a AR without sites on in. One if the rifles I picked up did not come with a carry handle or BUIS. Optics were ordered but had not arrived. I wanted to make sure it functioned before I did anything to the rifle so I went out and put a 20 Round magazine though the gun.
Now that being said. This is not the case of what happened here, and the guy the OP is talking about is a complete moron.
The range closest to me gets a lot of foreign tourists who have never held a gun in their life. I keep the eyes in the back of my head open.
Several of the indoor ranges here in Vegas tout "Come shoot a real machine gun!" in their advertisements. Consequently we get bus loads of foreigners, Kalifornians and complete morons who violate just about every firearm safety rule and in general act like complete retards the second they get near a weapon.
Personally I prefer to go out to the desert and the canyons around here as it's much more peaceful without worrying about which dipshit is gonna light you up with a Tommy Gun, MP-5, etc.
Smuckatelli
06-12-09, 11:28
He also shouldn't be allowed near any other guns for that matter. Not real keen on him operating vehicles either.
Should probably add females to the list of things/people that he should not be around.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-12-09, 11:40
In any hobby you are going to find people of lower intelligence...
Cars, Bikes, Flying, Fishing, Skydiving, Sewing, Knitting, whatever. You cannot escape it.
It is just in our hobby, the risk of getting killed by another its higher.
I feel sorry for the guy. He'd like to get into shooting and he wasn't lucky enough to have friends or family to teach him. Hopefully he'll take some firearms safety classes and stick with it. I wouldn't doubt that after he becomes proficient (and hopefully not before) he would go out of his way to help new shooters.
Is your Magical MagpulD tour bus stopping in Pueblo this weekend?
"The AR platform is the cats meow cool factor for most people that have a boring life. It attracts some of everyone, and the 8 to 5 guys need the evil black rifle in their otherwise basic life. "
I saved that quote years ago. I can't remember where I even saw it, but I copied it to a .txt file. Every time I see a thread like this, I think of it.
.... slowly raises hand ... that would be me. Fortunately I was raised around guns and hunting. Safety was the #1 rule taught by my dad 30 years ago. some people play golf, I like to shoot. I absolutely despise unsafe shooters and will not go to certain ranges because of them.
RogerinTPA
06-12-09, 11:49
I hope the discussion with the range master was a wake up call to this person, but I doubt it.
One of Murphy's Laws is appropriate here, "Left to themselves, things go from bad to worse."
Given Human nature AND the Law of Averages, you are bound to find, in any group or population, that a percentage of that group, is going to have lumps on their heads from walking into walls.:p
With the proper approach, giving a little instruction to someone can go a long way in keeping not only them safe, buy yourself safe. I've spent a half hour with a random stranger at the outdoor range on many occasions and I've had many that are very thankful. Just start out with a kind "New gun? Is it your first?" and take it from there. If they're just an asshat, pack up and leave. If it's their first gun, think of how much safer they'll be with just a little instruction. Who knows, you may not save their ass, or your ass... but perhaps their little childs life when he gets home to clean his new gun.
Just because some of us here have been behind a gun for the past 30 some odd years in one form or another, doesn't mean everyone has been. They deserve a good start, just like the rest of us had (hopefully).
"The AR platform is the cats meow cool factor for most people that have a boring life. It attracts some of everyone, and the 8 to 5 guys need the evil black rifle in their otherwise basic life. "
I saved that quote years ago. I can't remember where I even saw it, but I copied it to a .txt file. Every time I see a thread like this, I think of it.
While I understand your point and there's much truth in it, I'd say this: I've been a cop for 21 years and have spent LOADS of time training with weapons. I guarantee you that there's a boatload of "9-5 'ers" here and other places who would absolutely clean my clock when it comes to shooting skills.
I don't think you meant it that way but the comment comes off as a little disparaging to those "8-5 guys" as you say.
With the proper approach, giving a little instruction to someone can go a long way in keeping not only them safe, buy yourself safe. I've spent a half hour with a random stranger at the outdoor range on many occasions and I've had many that are very thankful. Just start out with a kind "New gun? Is it your first?" and take it from there. If they're just an asshat, pack up and leave. If it's their first gun, think of how much safer they'll be with just a little instruction. Who knows, you may not save their ass, or your ass... but perhaps their little childs life when he gets home to clean his new gun.
Just because some of us here have been behind a gun for the past 30 some odd years in one form or another, doesn't mean everyone has been. They deserve a good start, just like the rest of us had (hopefully).
Here, here. I completely agree. Good for you. And for the Range Master who took the time to help the guy out. I can say that after working in the Security industry and in Law Enforcement for over 17 years. Range Safety will ALWAYS be a major issue.
I think people should be appluded for trying to help-out new and/ or ignorant shooters (If they are ameable to it). New shooters will be the life blood of our sport/ traditions.
I completely agree with Zhurdan. Many of us forget that we were new shooters, once upon a time. Safety is always paramount when it comes to realistic training or just shooting in general. I cannot begin to recount the idiots I have personally run across. And sadly, some have even been in LE or military.
Case in point, I have seen many a Police locker room without mysterious holes/ perforations in the ceiling/s or in the lockers themselves from a gun accidently "going-off". Or, been handed a gun that was supposedly 'UNLOADED'. But, my favorite is to turn around and see a collegue/ "friend", pointing a gun at my back.
Safety is a serious issue which we should all try to remember.
Give the guy a break. Yeah, he may truly be an idiot. But, maybe he is a new shooter who needs some help.
SkiDevil
P.S. IrishLuck, Not all of us from KALIFORNIA are unsafe. I have rented a few machine guns in Vegas and managed to keep my muzzle and all of my rounds downrange.:p
Don't paint one picture for all of us!:)
P.S. IrishLuck, Not all of us from KALIFORNIA are unsafe. I have rented a few machine guns in Vegas and managed to keep my muzzle and all of my rounds downrange.:p
Don't paint one picture for all of us!:)
Not my intention ;) Several of those Kalifornians are very good friends of mine after spending a few years there :)
... all turned out well and the Dummy has agreed to being taught proper gun handling, safety etc. by this very competent retired Marine range master.
At least the guy recognized his ignorance and is willing to receive instruction. A total Dummy would never admit he needed help nor accept it, he should get one point for that alone.
Not my intention ;) Several of those Kalifornians are very good friends of mine after spending a few years there :)
Ha! Ha! I was just kidding around. :D
No Worries.
I love VEGAS. You are lucky that you get to live there. I hope to do so at some point in my life as well.:)
QuickStrike
06-12-09, 16:02
K, I'll fess up.
I work the grave-yard shift so I get a kind of jet lag effect when attending 'normal people stuff' after 2 hours of sleep.
At class, my head must have gotten real dumb and I walked past someone's muzzle (his rifle over his shoulder, muzzle up) which is basically sweeping myself with someone's rifle.
I still feel REALLY REALLY retarded even after more than a year. :mad:
I feel sorry for the guy. He'd like to get into shooting and he wasn't lucky enough to have friends or family to teach him. Hopefully he'll take some firearms safety classes and stick with it.
I'm going to second this but too a degree. The above guy was a real moron, and I have little respect for someone that knows they are ignorant but is to prideful to ask for help, but I also understand how difficult it is getting into a new hobby.
Since moving to NY I find myself spending the majority of my time shooting with people I meet here to consist of training them on how to safely operate their (or my) guns, how to properly fire, ext. I can't blame someone that has never been taught the proper way to shoot for this failure in their up bringing. I have had to yell loudly at times, and I have been a real d*ck to people that I consider friends, but these people own guns (or like shooting) and need to be taught.
I must admit though I do miss the days of being back west in Wyoming or Oregon when I could hand a gun to a friend and all they needed was the round, and me to point out the safety, and the action and they were GTG and safe.:mad:
I feel sorry for the guy. He'd like to get into shooting and he wasn't lucky enough to have friends or family to teach him. Hopefully he'll take some firearms safety classes and stick with it. I wouldn't doubt that after he becomes proficient (and hopefully not before) he would go out of his way to help new shooters.
Agreed.
I travel well out of my way to avoid these people. The way I look at it, I just set aside the entire day for shooting. Sometimes we even bring a mini grill and have a cookout :cool:
I must admit though I do miss the days of being back west in Wyoming or Oregon when I could hand a gun to a friend and all they needed was the round, and me to point out the safety, and the action and they were GTG and safe.:mad:
What part of Wyoming? I live in Wyo... the greatest place on earth.
It is more common to run into someone that does know how to handle a firearm than someone to doesn't, but they are out there to be sure! Recently (past 8-10 years) there's been an influx of people into the oil/gas/mining fields (not quite as many as the boom in the 80's) and I tell you what... there are some scary individuals out at the old shootin' hill! Beer in hand, they'll start blasting away with some .500 handcannon, barely hitting the side of the hill. You don't even DARE ask them to wait until you pack up and leave, you just toss your crap in the back of the truck and roll out, put it all away later.
Like I said earlier though, it's been fairly rewarding to help a few new shooters cut their teeth. Even got one to switch his political party ;)
K, I'll fess up.
I work the grave-yard shift so I get a kind of jet lag effect when attending 'normal people stuff' after 2 hours of sleep.
At class, my head must have gotten real dumb and I walked past someone's muzzle (his rifle over his shoulder, muzzle up) which is basically sweeping myself with someone's rifle.
I still feel REALLY REALLY retarded even after more than a year. :mad:
Don't feel bad. I can relate. I worked graves for just over 5 years. I can sympathize with the 'Jet Lag Effect'. As a matter of fact, two of the few accidents I was involved-in occurred after working said shift on the drive home. No more graves for me.:eek:
SkiDevil
Alaskapopo
06-14-09, 02:48
Unless you have violent felonies in your record, mental defects, or any other legal matters not inclusive to this small list that prevents you from owning firearms, I could care less if someone wants to go blow rounds into a mountain or run a gun without iron sights, safely.
Who cares. :o
Actually I don't want any felons violent or not owning guns and thankfully the law agrees. I wish they would require some training for new gun owners. But unfortnuately such a program would get missused by the government.
Pat
SwatDawg15
06-14-09, 05:19
While I understand your point and there's much truth in it, I'd say this: I've been a cop for 21 years and have spent LOADS of time training with weapons. I guarantee you that there's a boatload of "9-5 'ers" here and other places who would absolutely clean my clock when it comes to shooting skills.
I don't think you meant it that way but the comment comes off as a little disparaging to those "8-5 guys" as you say.
I didn't make the quote. I read it on one of the boards years ago, and saved it. Ive got 12 years in, and wish i was an 8-5 guy sometimes haha
He also shouldn't be allowed near any other guns for that matter. Not real keen on him operating vehicles either.
He probably shouldn't have any sharp knives either! :D
RogerinTPA
06-14-09, 08:17
I wish they would require some training for new gun owners.
A good range safety briefing, whether written or verbal, should take care of the unsafe handling part. Common sense and exercising sound judgment however, remains elusive for many folks, regardless of how much training they've had.
What part of Wyoming? I live in Wyo... the greatest place on earth.
It is more common to run into someone that does know how to handle a firearm than someone to doesn't, but they are out there to be sure! Recently (past 8-10 years) there's been an influx of people into the oil/gas/mining fields (not quite as many as the boom in the 80's) and I tell you what... there are some scary individuals out at the old shootin' hill! Beer in hand, they'll start blasting away with some .500 handcannon, barely hitting the side of the hill. You don't even DARE ask them to wait until you pack up and leave, you just toss your crap in the back of the truck and roll out, put it all away later.
Like I said earlier though, it's been fairly rewarding to help a few new shooters cut their teeth. Even got one to switch his political party ;)
I grew up in Rock Springs, but I consider the entire western part of my state home. I am seriously considering going back, but one thing that is making me reluctant are the @ssholes you described above. But, I will return one day.
I do agree though that it is rewarding helping people cut their teeth, today though I'm off to the range with my Dad before he flies back to Asia for another six months. First time with an AR for him, but he's the one that taught me to shoot. Can't wait!
QuietShootr
06-14-09, 09:07
Actually I don't want any felons violent or not owning guns and thankfully the law agrees. I wish they would require some training for new gun owners. But unfortnuately such a program would get missused by the government.
Pat
So you're okay with a guy who gets a felony for dumping oil on his own ground having his rights taken away?
Think for a minute before you say things like that.
Heavy Metal
06-14-09, 10:34
So you're okay with a guy who gets a felony for dumping oil on his own ground having his rights taken away?
Think for a minute before you say things like that.
I am going to tell you something. I am not going to charge someone with a felony for dumping a few quarts of used motor oil (and I am the guy who enforces this) unless he has done it several times after previous attempts by me wth NOV's and then Orders to straighten his ass out. Likely, I will drag him in front of the Magistrate before it ever goes to the Felony level.
If I am going straight to felony charges, he has willfully and deliberately improperly disposed of a very large quantity of product.
If he earns a felony criminal complaint from me, he has earned it in spades and is not someone you want to have a gun anyway. Going criminal is the last step on someone who you just can't reach.
Actually I don't want any felons violent or not owning guns and thankfully the law agrees.
So you're okay with a guy who gets a felony for dumping oil on his own ground having his rights taken away? Think for a minute before you say things like that.
Quietshootr is right.
Pat, hit the code books and calculate all the ways you can become a convicted felon these days.
In some states, a 2nd, third, or fourth conviction for simple assault, or disorderly conduct in a couple, will make you a felon. I know more than a few college kids who picked up a few of these, and went on to be fine folks.
Then there's various crimes against or relating children that are penalty-classified as felonies. Ever know a parent with an out of control teen that had truancy issues? Should making them a felon after ~3 truancy violations ("failure to school children", etc) disqualify them from firearms ownership?
How about a single, or second conviction for CCWing without a permit?
Certain financial crimes or regulatory infractions?
Environmental crimes?
How about a single large-game violation in most states?
The label "convicted felon" is pretty diulted these days. I get pretty unimpressed when I hear it used without more information.
I am going to tell you something. I am not going to charge someone with a felony for dumping a few quarts of used motor oil (and I am the guy who enforces this) unless he has done it several times after previous attempts by me wth NOV's and then Orders to straighten his ass out. Likely, I will drag him in front of the Magistrate before it ever goes to the Felony level.
If I am going straight to felony charges, he has willfully and deliberately improperly disposed of a very large quantity of product.
If he earns a felony criminal complaint from me, he has earned it in spades and is not someone you want to have a gun anyway. Going criminal is the last step on someone who you just can't reach.
I can appreciate where you're coming from but you're not the only one who can charge someone with a felony and there are times where it isn't warranted. If a person is a non-violent felon then I believe their rights should be completely restored after they've paid their debt to society.
I am going to tell you something. I am not going to charge someone with a felony for dumping a few quarts of used motor oil (and I am the guy who enforces this) unless he has done it several times after previous attempts by me wth NOV's and then Orders to straighten his ass out. Likely, I will drag him in front of the Magistrate before it ever goes to the Felony level.
If I am going straight to felony charges, he has willfully and deliberately improperly disposed of a very large quantity of product.
If he earns a felony criminal complaint from me, he has earned it in spades and is not someone you want to have a gun anyway. Going criminal is the last step on someone who you just can't reach.
Good on you, that gives folks hope.
Unfortunately, there are others like you with management that affords them no discretion, and prosecutors that will up-charge submitted cases to satisfy their own agendas, administrative mandates, etc.
I'm prefer to see a groundswell of support for (de-felonizing?) much in the criminal code, broadening misdemeanor penalty options. Concurrently, revision of other code that impacts the exclusions and limitations of the various categories of felon so that the label has more meaning again.
Heavy Metal
06-14-09, 11:46
It's not just me.
The judge would laugh me out of court for bringing felony charges for dumping a few quarts. I doubt the prosecutor would touch it either, he wants to bring cases he can win.
He wants to either see a pattern or someting real big.
Most people who get convicted get a fine and community service (picking up trash).
I think there is one person in the state right now who is under a felony for open dumping and that is because he busted the terms of his probation for a misdemeanor conviction. Again, this is someone who had blown off repeated attempts and an unbelievable amount of compliance assistance at trying to get his ass in the right.
We have primacy so the EPA isn't going to come in behing us and write someone on federal charges unless we really, really drop the ball. Generally, they come in on something really big and political.
Generally, compared to most law enforcement, the chance of jail is much less, the chance of a five to six figure (possibly seven) fine are far greater because the fine monies are used for clean-ups. Most of the big en's are for corporations and governments. I like to be toughest on the .gov as they should be setting the example.
Anyway, enough OT.
Unless you have violent felonies in your record, mental defects, or any other legal matters not inclusive to this small list that prevents you from owning firearms, I could care less if someone wants to go blow rounds into a mountain or run a gun without iron sights, safely.
Who cares. :o
Agree 2nd ammendment protects even the idiots. If you see something comprimising your safety or the safety of others then say something. I'm no expert but I can tell when someone doesn't know what they are doing. I very politely start up a conversation and then politely explain that loading with your finger on the trigger with the barrel pointed up is a bad idea and so on.
So since this original subject is about people that should never be allowed near an AR, I think this guy deserves some thought.
I went to a range near my fathers house the other day to introduce him and my sister's fiance to the AR platform. My father taught me to shoot, to hunt, to hike, to play pool, to be me, so I was really looking forward to showing him the AR (he's a hunter, owns now automatic weapons, only those firearms he deems necessary to live off the land).
The range we went to was public, and they let us shoot because we explained that he is an ex-pat and only in the states 2 months a year. The range officer was amazing!
Anyway I walk up to the range with one 30 rnd, and one 10 (I live in NY and I think a 10 rounder is good for teaching people). I notice when I walk up this guy sitting at a bench. From where I was I could tell he had a Troy rail system, with some form of vertical hand grip, standard collapsible stock, an Eotech with a an Aimpoint 3x magnifier, and 2, yes 2 Beta Mags. To his right is a group of two people shooting two ARs that I couldn't see, and to his left is a guy with a SIG .556 in a gun rest that he is simply showing off and swabbing the barrel. They all seem together.
So anyway I watch this guy shoot while the range master is talking to us. I watch him send rounds down range (small range), and I notice that the bullet impacts are striking a large 10" target set at 40ish yards that is about 20 degrees to his right and actually the far left target of the people next to him. By the time his rounds hit the 100 yard berm they have travelled through all of the other three lanes to his right. I was pretty dumb struck... Then he proceeds to let off a volley of poorly controlled rapid fire that leaves a nice 7 foot pattern at the end of the range. The officers were pretty pissed about this, but no one noticed his angle until later.
We sit down and shoot. My Dad is elated, his groups were tighter then he ever thought was possible given the round and barrel, my sister's fiance is an insane natural for only having shot two other times, and to tell you the truth I'm jealous... After my Dad's third round of 5 I hear the above guy's friends ask him what he's shooting at! He explains his target, and they tell him that they set that one up in their lane for their last set of shots. He shrugs.
We then move on to the .270 and do some shots. After my first group of three I place the rifle down and leave the bench. I notice this guy standing behind our booth and smirking at us, and in particular at my AR (MP 15 OR w/ BUIS zeroed at 50 yrds with no optic, I love this gun). I ignore him.
After one set of 270 we go back to the AR. After we left the range my Dad told me that this guy then proceeded to sweep his left hand lanes (of which I was on the line) while he was trying to wrestle the Beta Mag free from his gun. He actually put the weapon in his armpit and proceeded to pull down while pointing the gun towards fellow shooters. The range officer and him spoke for a while in a heated way, but since the session was close to over he stayed but didn't shoot again.
The last thing heard from this guy was him talking with the show off next to us who never fired a shot the entire hour about how he was upset that they wouldn't let him shoot his M203. The guy next to him asked what rounds he had and he said blue smoke only at this point...
SO WTF? This guy had every fancy toy in the book. Couldn't hit a group if it killed him. While our groups at 50 yrds were impressive with Irons (mine was the worst honestly and I am pretty ashamed of that), he was shooting the wrong target at 40 with a 3x magnifier? He sweeped us with a beta mag, A million toys, a hot gun, and obviously enough money to afford it all, and yet to tell you the truth he fit my picture of someone that shouldn't own an AR (or any gun) more then anyone I have ever met. He obviously has experience in the platform, and shooting, but what the hell?
What do you guys think of people like this?
Unfortunately, many people will treat firearms like toys. Add to that a lot of people don't want to be told what to do or hear the suggestion that they could benefit from training.
Love it or hate it, most places in the U.S. do not require training as a prerequisite to buying a firearm. Many people will wing it just like they do with the other devices they own.
There was a time when everyone of us was new to shooting. Where would we have ended up without proper guidance and training? As others have said, we should try to help new shooters / untrained shooters at least be safe and if possible with some of the basics.
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