First post and build questions

[Captain_America]

Hello to everyone,

This is my first post on M4Carbine.net, although I have been lurking for a long time. I am most definitely not new to firearms, been shooting for twenty years. I shoot a variety of guns but have never been into AR's really. I do not have any rifles other than .22's at this point in my life (new family, went back to school). I will be getting a bit of money in the next couple months and decided I need a rifle. I'm pretty limited in the price range I will be looking. Although it will be my first rifle in a long time it won't be my last. It will be my only for a couple years till I get out of school. Initially I did not consider an AR. I have fired them in the past but for no apparent reason, just never really had a lot of interest (shot strictly pistols for a number of years).

I started looking for a nice long distance bolt action set up. A lot of folks I talked to suggested AR's to me. Not being versed in the world of AR's I always thought they were fairly expensive. But as I began researching I found that there are some that I may be able to get for the money I will be looking to spend. Now I know as with many things, you get what you pay for when it comes to AR's. I've been looking into this heavily. My quandary is should I go ahead and get an AR in the price range I can afford now, or get something else until I can afford a decent AR.

I have been looking at some of the lower end ones such as Olympic and Del-ton. I have been told to stay away from Olympic all together, and have heard mixed things about Del-ton. I have been looking closely at RRA. A lot of people suggest building an AR to save some money. I do know that there are some tools needed to build and upper, and I don't know if I have the confidence to do that at this point. I do think I might could assemble a lower though.

Now for my questions. RRA lists a complete CAR A4 with 6 position stock for $925. Actually it would be $965 with a chrome lined barrel. That is a little high for my budget. So I began looking at building one. A complete CAR A4 chrome lined upper kit will cost $695. It states that the kit comes with the lower parts kit, two stage trigger, and stock. So then would the only thing needed to complete the lower be the stripped lower? A stripped lower receiver is $170. This would bring the total price of the rifle to $865. Would this be correct? Are there any other options that could save even more money? How difficult is it to assemble a lower receiver? Does it require any special tools? How long would it take to get these parts?

I know these are noob questions that probably get asked over and over. I have been reading as much as I can trying to learn and just want to know if this is correct in this instance. Please feel free to give any opinions or advice. Is there anything of comparable quality in that price range? If there is anyone who would care to PM and answer some other questions I would greatly appreciate that too.

[Thomas M-4]

You can get an assembled LMT defender 2000 lower $330
Lmt m-4 upper $485
Lmt BCG $130
Lmt charging handle $29
Lmt hand guards $35
Total $1009
It would be a much higher quality rifle than a RRA or Del tron.
Better barrel steel 4150 vs 4140 in the RRA and a true 5.56 chamber
1:7 twist barrel in the LMT will let you use heavier 75-77 grain bullets.
The bolt is HP and MP tested the carrier key will be properly staked and the buffertube will be MIL spec and also properly stacked.

[Thomas M-4]

Have you read this Thread ? https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
If you have questions about HP-MP and 4150cmv

[Captain_America]

Have you read this Thread ? https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
If you have questions about HP-MP and 4150cmv

I have read that thread. I've been reading as much as I can. I understand the qualities of a well built AR. My problem is that I'm on an extremely tight budget as it is. I know it $300 isn't much but it is when I'm not working and going to school (my wife is saint as it is letting me get a rifle, don't want to push it). I have thought about putting the money away till I can get an LMT or Colt. I was just hoping there was a way to get out cheaper. But if there is that big of a difference between lower end models and better ones, I don't want something mickey mouse.

[Going4Broke]

If you are just going to use it at the range and for some fun shootin without pounding a ton of rounds through it, the RRA will be just fine for you. The difference in price for building each is going to be closer to $200 not $300. You need to decide if it is worth it. Personally I decided to goLMT because for $200 I felt it was worth it.

[Thomas M-4]

I have read that thread. I've been reading as much as I can. I understand the qualities of a well built AR. My problem is that I'm on an extremely tight budget as it is. I know it $300 isn't much but it is when I'm not working and going to school (my wife is saint as it is letting me get a rifle, don't want to push it). I have thought about putting the money away till I can get an LMT or Colt. I was just hoping there was a way to get out cheaper. But if there is that big of a difference between lower end models and better ones, I don't want something mickey mouse.

I am in the same boat as you it took me almost 2 years to piece together my LMT.
I am still waiting to get enough money for the aimpoint .
To me it was worth the trouble I have seen and shot RRA and I know that my LMT is a better rifle than RRA. YMMV

[JSGlock34]

I think the LMT offers great quality at a decent price point (I own a LMT), but were I looking to save a few dollars I'd consider one of the new Smith and Wesson M&P 15 rifles. I think the M&P offers most of the MILSPEC features, the barrel being the only component that comes up short, at a decent price point. Before the madness began, it was possible to get a S&W M&P 15 or 15A for under $900 (I prefer the 15A as it comes with a Troy rear BUIS instead of a carry handle for a few dollars more than the standard 15 - a good value as most carry handles end up in the gear bag as soon as you buy an optic). I have no idea what they're going for these days. I'd see if Grant from G&R Tactical has any in stock. I think the S&W is superior to the RRA is several respects (better quality BCG, MILSPEC receiver extension, M4 ramps, chrome barrel is standard, etc). Plus I've become less enamored of the HBAR profile of the RRA under the handguards - weight matters.

As an aside, a member of my shooting group shoots the S&W M&P 15T, and is very pleased. No problems at a carbine class we attended together.

ETA: Look like G&R has the M&15A for $975 and the M&P15OR (Optics Ready) for $850. I still prefer the 15A, but the OR might be an option if you are planning on an optic.

[Thomas M-4]

I think the LMT offers great quality at a decent price point (I own a LMT), but were I looking to save a few dollars I'd consider one of the new Smith and Wesson M&P 15 rifles. I think the M&P offers most of the MILSPEC features, the barrel being the only component that comes up short, at a decent price point. Before the madness began, it was possible to get a S&W M&P 15 or 15A for under $900. I have no idea what they're going for these days. I'd see if Grant from G&R Tactical has any in stock. I think the S&W is superior to the RRA is several respects (better quality BCG, MILSPEC receiver extension, M4 ramps, etc). Plus I've become less enamored of the HBAR profile of the RRA under the handguards - weight matters.

As an aside, a member of my shooting group shoots the S&W M&P 15T, and is very pleased. No problems at a carbine class we attended together.

JSGlock is right a lot of good reports out of the M&P 15 for me the 4150 barrel is a must but for the OP if 4150 doesn't matter the M&P 15 would be a fine alternative alot better than the RRA and the Deltron. IMO

[Going4Broke]

I think the LMT offers great quality at a decent price point (I own a LMT), but were I looking to save a few dollars I'd consider one of the new Smith and Wesson M&P 15 rifles. I think the M&P offers most of the MILSPEC features, the barrel being the only component that comes up short, at a decent price point. Before the madness began, it was possible to get a S&W M&P 15 or 15A for under $900 (I prefer the 15A as it comes with a Troy rear BUIS instead of a charging handle for a few dollars more than the standard 15 - a good value as most charging handles end up in the gear bag as soon as you buy an optic). I have no idea what they're going for these days. I'd see if Grant from G&R Tactical has any in stock. I think the S&W is superior to the RRA is several respects (better quality BCG, MILSPEC receiver extension, M4 ramps, chrome barrel is standard, etc). Plus I've become less enamored of the HBAR profile of the RRA under the handguards - weight matters.

As an aside, a member of my shooting group shoots the S&W M&P 15T, and is very pleased. No problems at a carbine class we attended together.

I assume you meant carry handle because if you take out the charging handle you wont ever have to worry about WHAT ammo costs.;)

[SkiDevil]

Short Answer. Buy the BEST that you can afford.

The rifle/ build can be upgraded at some later point. If you like.

I can sympathize with you because I was in the same place myself not that many years ago. Advice; talk to people who build ARs and read a lot. I read over a dozen books about ARs before I bought mine (not necessary) because I wanted to be informed.

Stick with one of the Major brands if you purchase a complete rifle. A LOT of people here are partial to the BCM brand available at Bravo 1 USA, if you decide to build your own (many gunsmiths will assemble a lower for you for somewhere between $25-50, if you are not mechanically inclined).

A good lower such as STAG/ CMT, RRA, Noveske, CMMG, MEGA, Yankee Hill, Spikes (Many more) can be purchased from $100-$300. -I know people who have used all of those brands with zero problems.
-Average is around $150

A good lower parts kit; I would look closely at the STAG/ CMT. I ordered one for $64.00 + Shipping

If you ultimately choose to purchase a complete rifle and are looking at around a Grand. The RRA would be a good choice. However, with the recent supply of all things AR returning the prices for some guns/ components have dropped. Many on the forum have reported seeing COLTS for around $1300.00. If you can save the extra money. Buy all means purchase the COLT.

However, Definitely for the most bang for your buck. Purchase a quality lower, take it to a gunsmith with a lower parts kit, and then find an upper that fits your needs.

There are some EXTREMELY knowledgable people on this forum. So, I am sure that you will receive some good information.

Tactical Yellow Visor wrote an excellent piece on this very subject. Attached below is the link for the article. Look through the piece and apply what fits your needs. If you are not sure what you need; consider a 16" mid-length Carbine which is a good all-around weapon.

LINK: http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/59827.html

Good Luck,
SkiDevil:)

Highly Recommend: "The AR-15 Complete Assembly Guide" by Walt Kuleck with Clint McKee

General Information: "The AR-15" Volume 1 and Volume 2, by Patrick Sweeney

[Thomas M-4]

I am all for building one but for a first time owner of a AR-15 I think its best if he buys a complete lower and upper or a complete rifle and be done with it far less chance of making a beginners mistake in ether assemble or parts selection. Also you have to factor in tool costs. On the 2nd or 3rd rifle you want to build it Great Go for it. At least with a quality first rifle you would have something to compare your work to. IMO

[SkiDevil]

I am all for building one but for a first time owner of a AR-15 I think its best if he buys a complete lower and upper or a complete rifle and be done with it far less chance of making a beginners mistake in ether assemble or parts selection. Also you have to factor in tool costs. On the 2nd or 3rd rifle you want to build it Great Go for it. At least with a quality first rifle you would have something to compare your work to. IMO

I completely agree with you. I would purchase a complete rifle for my first AR (I chose a Noveske).

That said. If he wants the lowest price, then building it himself would certainly be the least expensive route. Or, like you suggested; buy a completed lower $400-500 and then an a completed upper ($500-1500).

[JSGlock34]

I assume you meant carry handle because if you take out the charging handle you wont ever have to worry about WHAT ammo costs.;)

Doh! You are correct, sir! Operator headspace error. Original post corrected.

[Iraqgunz]

Captain America,

My advice would be to continue saving and spend the extra few dollars on an LMT or Colt 6920. Prices are coming down. Or assemble one from parts as Thomas M-4 laid out the cost pretty well for assembling and LMT parts gun, the only problem of course is getting all the parts together. You could also start by getting the complete LMT lower, and some of the other smaller parts, then wait a couple of months and get the upper and then a month or two later the BCG.