View Full Version : Form 4 - Factory SBR: Barrel Options
There are a couple Factory 11.5 SBR's available like:
*Sabre Defence SBR from PSI
*Colt 6933 from CA
My question is if I submit a Form 4 for a 11.5" Complete SBR, will it take another tax stamp for me go shorter to 10.5".
Does the answer include submitting the primary Form 4 for the factory SBR with a shorter than factory barrel length? Such as a 10.5" barrel on a 6933?
Thanks,
-Mark
You wouldn't need a second tax stamp for a change in barrel length on the SBR.
I don't think submitting your factory SBR paperwork with an incorrect length would be a kosher move either. A new Colt 6933 always has a 11.5" barrel, and anything else would raise a flag if I saw it. Whether the ATF would notice or not, I don't know, but it wouldn't be worth risking loosing the time and effort (and $200?) when if it got denied.
If I remember correctly the "right" thing to do when changing up barrel lengths is just submitting a brief note to the ATF stating you've altered the barrel length.
i'm pretty sure an SBR is an SBR, and barrel length isn't going to matter. NFA does not tell you you have to have any particular barrel length with an SBR, and the ATF doesn't have any restrictions. i know it asks what length on the form, but what difference can it make? it's a registered SBR whether it's got a 7" barrel or a 14.5
Technically, you should notify the NFA branch if you install a different length barrel than stated on your Form 1/Form 4.
I've done this many times over the years.
According to the ATF Tech memo I have laying around here, the ATF considers it a mandatory requirement. Truthfully it is so easy why not do it?
No Bananas
06-13-09, 22:35
I don't know if this will be applicable to your situation. I called NFA and asked if I could put multiple barrel lengths on my Fomr 1. She told me that I should include additonal barrels (and include the lengths) in section "H." Just an FYI.
ATF does need to be advised of changes. But they also know at the time the lower was registered (by the maker) what barrel length was going on it when manufactured. For example, I bought a semi auto Colt that had a Colt Mk18 upper, but the lower was taken from a new 6921. When submitted, ATF knew and had called the dealer (SAW) to submit some kind of letter before they would approve it.
Whether the ATF would notice or not, I don't know, but it wouldn't be worth risking loosing the time and effort (and $200?) when if it got denied.
They would notice it immediately given that it's already in the NFA registry. The dealer who is transferring it to you should have the correct OAL and bbl length already on an approved Form 3. Whatever that form says is what you need to use.
Someone correct me if I am wrong. If you were building your own SBR and you put down 7.5 inches as the barrel length, you can throw a 10.5", 12" or whatever on there as long as it isn't shorter than the item currently allowed.
Someone correct me if I am wrong. If you were building your own SBR and you put down 7.5 inches as the barrel length, you can throw a 10.5", 12" or whatever on there as long as it isn't shorter than the item currently allowed.
I was told that any change...longer or shorter...required notification. I submitted a Form 1 for a 10.5 several years ago and called the NFA branch when I decided to switch to 11.5". They asked me to send notification for that change.
Someone correct me if I am wrong. If you were building your own SBR and you put down 7.5 inches as the barrel length, you can throw a 10.5", 12" or whatever on there as long as it isn't shorter than the item currently allowed.
Most people don't report temporary changes, longer or shorter. Some shooters have reported that their Contact at ATF told them to mail in notification if you're making a permanent set up change.
As usual, depending on who you ask, they'll have different responses from ATF.
My understanding is as long as you keep the original specified length upper, you can put whatever length you want on to play around, just as long as you can easily put it back into the originally specified configuration.
Mark,
Seems logically illogical. :D
Most people don't report temporary changes, longer or shorter. Some shooters have reported that their Contact at ATF told them to mail in notification if you're making a permanent set up change.
As usual, depending on who you ask, they'll have different responses from ATF.
SWATcop556
06-16-09, 00:40
Mark,
Seems logically illogical. :D
Of course. It's the ATF! :p
I just finished a training class with two agents. They stated that if the change is a permanent change to the weapons existing setup then written notification is necessary. If it is just another upper for your SBR then register the shortest one but you might still want to give them a heads up.
They said if you got an agent who wanted to make your NFA life miserable then he could, so it doesn't hurt to just let them know.
They said if you got an agent who wanted to make your NFA life miserable then he could, so it doesn't hurt to just let them know.
That's what it boils down to.
SWATcop556
06-16-09, 11:57
That's what it boils down to.
Agreed. I'm not worried about an ATF raid but at the same time I don't feel like being a test baby for an over-zealous agent.
I still believe you can have as many short uppers as you want as long as you have at least one SBR or pistol lower regardless of how many regular lowers you have. It never hurts to just send them a letter saying "Hey I've got a 10.5 on my form 1 but I bought an 11.5."
i'm disgusted at the fact that we have to sit around here debating what we can and cant do and what hoops have to be jumped through to not get in trouble with big daddy ATF. law-abiding free American men.
what a ****in joke.
i'm disgusted at the fact that we have to sit around here debating what we can and cant do and what hoops have to be jumped through to not get in trouble with big daddy ATF. law-abiding free American men.
what a ****in joke.
I think that there's an overzealous, absurd tendancy to comply to regs to the point of absurdity. That's why I get cranky when the self appointed internut patrolmen start telling others what they have to do if they don't want club fed, bubba, etc.
In my limited review of ATF cases against individuals and small/fly by night gun manufacturors or dealers, I've never found that the ATF was out to shaft someone who didn't have it coming. I'll be the first one to scream from the mountain tops when I find a case of a truly innocent gun guy getting the shaft. But I've yet to see this.
CleverNickname
06-16-09, 18:37
The length and caliber designations are only to more accurately identify the gun. This is the reason why the ATF doesn't like "less than 26 inches" for OAL or "less than 16 inches" for bbl length or listing a whole slew of different calibers, because when it's so ambiguous like that, that information does nothing in identifying the gun.
I appreciate all the responses in this thread. Definitely helped push me over the edge and buy instead of build.
Today I dropped the money down for a 6933, so the wait begins.
Thanks, and damn it feels good to be out of Cali.
Thanks, and damn it feels good to be out of Cali.
Dude I have been out of there for almost a year and sill feel that way. :cool:
RetreatHell
06-27-09, 00:46
I am in a similar situation, where I registered a lower as having a 14.5" upper (i registered a different one for 10.5" already), but then never bought the 14.5" upper I was planning on getting. Instead I will be strapping an 11.5" upper to that particular lower.
So I called the NFA Branch and they advised me to mail them a signed letter stating what barrel length I intend to use on that 14.5" registered lower. I mailed that letter off a month ago, but does anyone know if I will be receiving any documentation back from BATFE showing the new change? Or am I now good to go since I did my part in mailing them the notification letter, and can now put an 11.5" upper on that particular SBR'd lower?
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