View Full Version : Driving Schools
Jay Cunningham
06-13-09, 20:40
I know how to drive about as well as I knew how to shoot five years ago. Let's hear some options for formal driving training...
John_Wayne777
06-13-09, 21:28
I know US Training Center/BW does some driver training. Last time I checked, however, the civvy courses were limited to a one day defensive driving course.
Skip Barber's school has some decent defensive driving courses based on some reviews I've seen.
Do you mean tactical driving (black vehicle required:p), or racing type school?
Here would be my choice. Oh man this would be great :D
http://www.team-oneil.com/
But really what kind of driving do you mean?
Speed Racer
06-13-09, 21:41
The Bob Bondurant school now offers training for "military and executive". I'm a graduate of their 3-day ZO6 Experience - it was great. More info on the military class here:
http://www.bondurant.com/high_performance_driving_school/military_executive_security.php
My whole family (parents, brother, wife) and I took the 1-day "civilian" course at BSR in West Virginia years ago. Worth every penny. At least three of us can point to instances where that training probably made the difference between no accident and tragedy.
On the West Coast, Bobby Orr does training and on the East coast I recommend BSR. The good outfits won't train just anyone, steer away from any outfit that will.
BSR 2 day or Toni Scotti.
I was just thinking earlier today about starting a similar thread. The July issue of SWAT magazine has a good article about BSR... www.bsr-inc.com
Last paragraph of article: Let's face it: most of us spend more time behind the wheel than facing down threats with a firearm. While both firearm and driving skill sets are important, recovering a vehicle from a skid will more likely be utilized in our lives than a tap-rack-bang-drill.
Makes a lot of sense to me.
Thomas M-4
06-13-09, 23:16
The Bob Bondurant school now offers training for "military and executive". I'm a graduate of their 3-day ZO6 Experience - it was great. More info on the military class here:
http://www.bondurant.com/high_performance_driving_school/military_executive_security.php
In the racing commuting Bob Bondurant is consider one of the best. I have read Bob Bondurant's Book and I considerate a must read for drivers wanting to the basics for improving there driving skills.
Depends on what you want. I autocross and participate in Open Track events. If that's your idea of fun try SCCA. They have Evolution Schools where you can drive your own vehicle around a pylon course with professional instruction. Then I'd autocross a season and during the off-season look up Bondurant or Barber for a two or three day course. BMW also has one day courses in which the M cars are used. Look up Porsche as well. Both are open to the public.
Littlelebowski
06-14-09, 06:33
Doesn't our very own Looey teach driving for BW/US Training Center? Drop him a PM, TK.
Robb Jensen
06-14-09, 07:01
Doesn't our very own Looey teach driving for BW/US Training Center? Drop him a PM, TK.
He used to, he's in Firearms and Tactics now.
I was just thinking earlier today about starting a similar thread. The July issue of SWAT magazine has a good article about BSR... www.bsr-inc.com
Last paragraph of article: Let's face it: most of us spend more time behind the wheel than facing down threats with a firearm. While both firearm and driving skill sets are important, recovering a vehicle from a skid will more likely be utilized in our lives than a tap-rack-bang-drill.
Makes a lot of sense to me.
Of course, that only holds true if people sign up to take vehicle dynamics/accident avoidance type classes.
It can be neat to learn how to drive from the passenger seat if the driver is shot in the head, or how to crash an armored Suburban through a barricade, etc., but for the vast majority of people those are not everyday skills. Spending some time on a skid pad, learning how to threshold brake, etc. are things that may not be as sexy but they are actual life-saving skills.
I took a 1-day defensive driving class, set up through my work. It was in conjunction with the local campus of OSU and affiliated with the OHP, I believe. They have a huge course for cornering, accident avoidance, etc. as well as a skid pad with the skid car to practice recovering from slides and all (that part was pretty fun :D) Like I said, I was there for work, but there were individuals in there as well.
Might look and see if there is something available like that from a local university or whereever the state or local police do training.
I'll say, it's much like a shooting class in that there are going to be a few things that are counter intuitive but okay if you give a fair shake, and even a few things that might not work for you...for example, they insisted on our tires being inflated to the absolute max, well past the point of getting proper contact patch. But much like a class or comp you get time doing things you don't normally get to do in a controlled environment with instructor feedback.
I know how to drive about as well as I knew how to shoot five years ago. Let's hear some options for formal driving training...
I've been to this track for other events, but I have no personal experience with their training. It is a nice facility, and it is close to home for you Katarzan, right off of the Beaver Falls exit of the Turnpike.
http://www.beaverun.com/
Jay Cunningham
06-14-09, 10:13
I've been to this track for other events, but I have no personal experience with their training. It is a nice facility, and it is close to home for you Katarzan, right off of the Beaver Falls exit of the Turnpike.
http://www.beaverun.com/
Dude - that looks great! I wonder if we can scrape up any reviews of the training there?
Of course, that only holds true if people sign up to take vehicle dynamics/accident avoidance type classes.
It can be neat to learn how to drive from the passenger seat if the driver is shot in the head, or how to crash an armored Suburban through a barricade, etc., but for the vast majority of people those are not everyday skills. Spending some time on a skid pad, learning how to threshold brake, etc. are things that may not be as sexy but they are actual life-saving skills.
Actually, threshhold braking, understanding under vs. oversteer and being able to FEEL THEM and properlycorrect is very sexy. Learning to identify the apex of a corner and HIT it time and time again makes for superb confidence with an automobile. AUTOCROSSING is a great inexpensive way to hone those skills for the entire family. Some may ask are those skills used everyday. Yes, they are. I don't threshold brake, trailbrake but I do heel and toe downshift at every stop and I do find the apex though I don't pull any appreciable g's. I simply find the most efficient way through every corner - usually try to 'straight line' it for the least amount of g's.
In my sports compact car do occasionally ATTACK cloverleaves (entrance and exit ramps). I do find the apex (usually two) and accelerate through them. I do drive aggressively enough at times to trailbrake to get the car to rotate in tight corners or decreasing radii corners. All of this learned thru lots of reading, driving schools, autocross, open track events driving simulators and more study of Vehicle Dynamics and Chassis. As you can tell I'm a road racing enthusiast but it's not really necessary - just understand what is going on at the contact patches and how your steering, throttle and brake inputs affect it. Sounds easy. It isn't. But it's hella fun!
There are alot of driving schools that have opened since 9/11 but BSR is still the standard.
BW/US training center- All the initial instructors that set that program up came from BSR
Olive Security- driving program started by Alan Minnick, former BSR director of training
Beaver Run- started by Don Barrack, former BSR instructor
ITI- started by former BSR instuctors
Do you see where I am going with this. If you look back, 99% started at BSR.
Drink from the source or one of its many run offs. Me I drink from the source.
P.S. I am also bias because I worked at BSR for many years also!:D
Derek_Connor
06-14-09, 13:51
With my old man racing there as an amateur, and Growing up close to Mid-Ohio Race Track (Lexington, OH), I've had the opportunity take several defensive driving courses there.
Highly recommend their Programs (http://www.midohio.com/School/Courses/Defensive-Driving)
My whole family (parents, brother, wife) and I took the 1-day "civilian" course at BSR in West Virginia years ago. Worth every penny. At least three of us can point to instances where that training probably made the difference between no accident and tragedy.
I did a Skip Barber class (driving, not "racing") many moons ago right after graduating from high school. I learned a great deal about both theory and practice, got to practice skid recovery, etc. It has definitely saved my bacon more than once.
Actually, threshhold braking, understanding under vs. oversteer and being able to FEEL THEM and properlycorrect is very sexy.
Understood, and as anyone who's been a passenger in my car can tell you, I have been known to use my accelerator when most folks are using their brakes, too. :cool:
I simply meant that while "vehicle work" in the context of a typical M4C discussion might seem like a cool class to take -- and it would be -- it's not necessarily going to teach someone the sorts of skills one will actually use in a life-threatening emergency during day-to-day driving. Unless, of course, your job or lifestyle puts you in places where counter-ambush tactics and such are commonplace, of course.
Taking a 5-day "Special Operations Driving Operations Operator Course" might sound a lot more fun than a 1- or 2-day "Accident Avoidance" class, but it's a lot like taking a 5-day "Special Operations Tactical Room Entry Team Course" instead of a 2-day CCW course ... might be more fun, probably won't be as useful.
John_Wayne777
06-14-09, 18:10
I think with driving training you can end up with much the same situation as firearms training....people selling cool stuff to "students" who want to do cool stuff rather than really learn the fundamentals well.
In my mind, you shouldn't be in a class teaching high-speed J turns if you don't understand the importance of proper tire pressure.
graduate of the following- scotti school-orange, MA
BSR-W.V.
HK-scotti combined vehicle ops-lakeland,F.L.A.
HK-scotti combined E.P protective detail driving,
VANCE facility, maryland
all great training,don,t no if HK still offers any of these,but all were first rate in the day.
Sidewinder6
06-14-09, 19:36
Here would be my choice. Oh man this would be great :D
http://www.team-oneil.com/
But really what kind of driving do you mean?
Go here. Look up Chuck.
Jay Cunningham
06-24-09, 18:01
I don't know if it will happen this year, but I see a trip to BeaveRun in my future...
Rmplstlskn
06-24-09, 20:00
Awile ago I converted my Bo Gritz SPIKE VHS tapes to DVD format... One of his BEST SPIKE's was the Defensive Driving video... Opinions on Bo Gritz politics aside, one thing is generally accepted is that the guy and his buddy, Scott, have been there, done that and know some serious stuff and do a pretty good job condensing it down into three hours or so of video.
The Defensive Driving video focuses on only 5 basic manuvers... I forget what they are all called, but I know the "J Turn" and "Ramming" are the best ones. A RENTAL CAR is the chosen donor for such exploits... ;)
For those of us lacking the funds for the schools or the priority of them, the video
has some good info... It actually looks pretty easy (and fun) once you get the principle down...
J Turn: Stop, put into reverse, slam the gas, soon after slam spin the steering wheel and let the car and the dynamics of wheel alignment take charge, then slam into drive and take off... Everyone on the video was able to do it easily by the second time... Key is slam spin the wheel and let the car do the rest... Even taking your hands off the wheel during the slam spin... Seems odd and counter-intuitive, but it works...
Ramming: High speed ramming is suicidal if you actually want to drive away or live... Ramming has to use PIVOT POINTS and slow speed ACCELERATION. Approach blockade at proper pivot point location and rapidly come to almost a stop about 5 feet from blockade, then accelerate slowly to contact and gun it when contact made, using engine power and inertia to move barricade out of the way... That way you have a dented bumper and sheetmetal but not a busted radiator or deployed air bags...
BTW, don't do that with a rental in good concience... Find a clunker...
I hope to take a formal school one day...
Rmpl
I don't know if it will happen this year, but I see a trip to BeaveRun in my future...
Let me know which class and when, I might just go with. I've been threatening to go to driving school for about 15 years.
Dude - that looks great! I wonder if we can scrape up any reviews of the training there?
I did the one-day BeaverRun "007" course last year. While bought as a bit of a gag gift, it was certainly fun and somewhat educational. This course tried to cover a lot of high-end material (PIT move, Barricade ramming, Reverse J turns) but did start with the basics (Skid Control, Understeer, Braking). It was a great day and a lot of fun, but for real driving education it spent too much time on Executive Protection stuff. This course was sold for what it was however, an intro EP course, so it did what it said.
The instructors were knowlegeable, smooth and communicated well to students, if not well to the management ("well, we'll do it this way 'cause it works better") The cars we used were old cruisers with beefed up brakes and trannys. It was amazing how fast they could corner (from the perspective of a euro car guy) and how predictable they were to drive. One of my most gratifying moments was reversing the car around the track and through cones and not hitting them while bouncing the wheels off the apex curbs!
My take-away skill was the ability to out-brake my ABS. I've been an advocate for ABS forever, but to come home and outbrake my ABS was pretty amazing. I've also never felt a car lock up with understeer (which we did on the skidpad)...that gave me a whole new appreciation for the skill set of being able to unwind the wheel!
It was a great day. The course I took was not a great driving course, but was an excellent intro course. If it's close, the EP courses are fun and keep you engaged while getting the basics.
best regards,
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.