How do these "recce" barrels compare to one another?

[Jay Cunningham]

Rainier Arms 16 UltraMatch Stainless Steel Barrel $395.00
Stainless Steel Match Grade Shilen Blank
Length: 16″
Twist: 1:8
.223 Wylde Chamber
Midlength Gas System
Ratchet Rifling™
M4 Feed Ramps
Proprietary Contour
Bead Blasted Finish


Noveske 16.1 Recon 5.56mm Barrel (includes gas block) $480.00

1:7 Twist improved polygonal rifling
5.56 Noveske Match Mod 0 chamber
Mid length gas system
M4 feedramps
1⁄2 X 28 TPI
Bead blasted finish
1″ long gas block seat
Pinned low profile gas block
Medium Contour


BCM SS410™ Barrel $339.95
M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension
Mid Length Gas System
1/8 Twist Rate
5.56 NATO Match Chambers (USMC SAM-R Chamber)
410 Stainless Steel
Mid Weight Contour Profile Barrels
Button Rifled
Hand Lapped Rifling
HPT (High Pressure Test) Barrels
MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected) Barrels


WOA 16 Stainless Steel Match Grade Barrel $273.00
16″ Stainless Steel Match Grade Barrel
1:7 Twist
Midlength Gas System
.223 Wylde Chamber
Bead Blasted Finish


Centurion Arms Recce Barrel $425
Material: Blackened 416R Stainless
Barrel extension: M4 feed ramps
Chamber: optimized for use with MK262 (Black Hills 77gr equivalent)
Twist: 1 in 7 right hand
Contour: Mid length compatible with SPR/M4 AAC suppressors (.750 .748)
Length: 16 in and threaded 1/2x28 for use with most common muzzle devices



I'd like to hear some opinions from experienced individuals on some of the pros/cons of these offerings, and also if there are any other similar options not on this list.

[dcmdon]

Just to help some of us out. Can you put prices next to them?

I don't have any 1st hand experience. But will convey a 2nd hand opinion. A friend has a gun built by Rainier with a similar bbl. It is very very accurate. The Noveske speaks for itself.

[RogerinTPA]

I feel a "Chart" is needed.:)

[rob_s]

I feel a "Chart" is needed.:)
;)

I started down that path actually but I discovered a couple of things. One is that I don't shoot well enough for barrels of this quality to matter, and two is that since I don't shoot well enough I don't know shit about the subject! :D

Looking foward to this thread though, since it's a subject I'm interested in seeing replies to.

[Jay Cunningham]

I added some pricing info - if there are any mistakes please let me know.

[mark5pt56]

I went with CLE (Compass Lake Engineering) Used a Douglas SS blank and had it profiled, chambered and cut/finished to length.

They did m4 ramps, I had 5.56 chambered (they will do whatever you want)(I wanted it chambered that way so I could shoot anything) Mid length gas, bead blasted. Full diameter from gas block to extension and .750 out to muzzle.

So far my loads (22.6 of Benchmark w/77 SMK) does an average of .5 (5 five shot groups so far at 100) Nothing special done to brass other than small based sized and trimmed. (once fired LC) I got my velocity to average 2650 from the 16.5" tube, 22.8 is max with Benchmark.

The price was 475 which included a matched bolt, a carrier, a gas tube and the bead blast.

Of course you have to wait for them to make it vs. buying the one of choice elsewhere.

[RogerinTPA]

Hey Katar,

Since you seem to be heading down the path of a recce build, what's on your list of things put on it? Will you be doing just the upper to go on an existing lower or tweaking a lower with a match trigger, spr stock, scope, etc...

[jmart]

I'd be curious to know the differences between Wylde, Nato Match and Noveske Match Mod 0 chambers.

BCM uses 410 SS IIRC and they have some info either on their website or here about their rationale for using it vs 416. IIRC 410 is a bit more durable.

I too am interested in this thread.

[Molon]

The 16” Noveske RECON barrel is a medium contour barrel that weighs 1.8 ounces less than a 16” Colt HBAR. It uses the proprietary Noveske Match Mod 0 chamber which was developed “to fire MK262 Mod 1 on AUTO in hot environments." Besides being able to safely shoot NATO pressure ammunition, this chamber is also capable of producing sub-MOA accuracy when using match grade ammunition.


http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3992/noveskemediumcontourwithcolthbar01zg7.jpg


10-shot group at 100 yards from 16” Noveske RECON barrel.
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/8924/noveskereccecontolload01ll8.jpg


The Noveske RECON barrel utilizes polygonal rifling, which contrary to the nonsense you may have read on the error-net, does not produce hundreds of feet per second more velocity than conventional rifling.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/ekqlxx9rdf.jpg


http://www.box.net/shared/static/h19jyeyk6k.jpg


The Noveske RECON barrel comes with a Noveske gas block (which many people fail to mention when comparing prices) which uses the Noveske originated set-up of one set-screw and one taper-pin to secure the gas block to the barrel.

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/9613/noveskegasblock01framedzc1.jpg

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/1695/noveskerecce32framedpv3.jpg

http://www.box.net/shared/static/xdytghfcad.jpg

[Jay Cunningham]

I edited the original post to reflect that the Noveske includes the gas block.

[jmart]

Molon,

Have you ever made a chamber cast of your Noveske chamber?

[5pins]

I just finished a build with the BCM barrel. I haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet, maybe latter this week.

[dookie1481]

Molon,

Have you ever made a chamber cast of your Noveske chamber?

Yeah I'm curious about the dimensions relative to other chambers.

Jay

[BT2012]

Katar,

This looks like a worthwhile Sticky.
Rainier Arms 16 UltraMatch Stainless Steel Barrel $395.00
Stainless Steel Match Grade Shilen Blank
Length: 16″
Twist: 1:8
.223 Wylde Chamber
Midlength Gas System
Ratchet Rifling™
M4 Feed Ramps
Proprietary Contour
Bead Blasted Finish


Noveske 16.1 Recon 5.56mm Barrel (includes gas block) $480.00

1:7 Twist improved polygonal rifling
5.56 Noveske Match Mod 0 chamber
Mid length gas system
M4 feedramps
1⁄2 X 28 TPI
Bead blasted finish
1″ long gas block seat
Pinned low profile gas block
Medium Contour


BCM SS410™ Barrel $339.95
M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension
Mid Length Gas System
1/8 Twist Rate
5.56 NATO Match Chambers (USMC SAM-R Chamber)
410 Stainless Steel
Mid Weight Contour Profile Barrels
Button Rifled
Hand Lapped Rifling
HPT (High Pressure Test) Barrels
MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected) Barrels


WOA 16 Stainless Steel Match Grade Barrel $273.00
16″ Stainless Steel Match Grade Barrel
1:7 Twist
Midlength Gas System
.223 Wylde Chamber
Bead Blasted Finish


Centurion Arms Recce Barrel $425
Material: Blackened 416R Stainless
Barrel extension: M4 feed ramps
Chamber: optimized for use with MK262 (Black Hills 77gr equivalent)
Twist: 1 in 7 right hand
Contour: Mid length compatible with SPR/M4 AAC suppressors (.750 .748)
Length: 16 in and threaded 1/2x28 for use with most common muzzle devices



I'd like to hear some opinions from experienced individuals on some of the pros/cons of these offerings, and also if there are any other similar options not on this list.

[Molon]

Molon,

Have you ever made a chamber cast of your Noveske chamber?

I have not. Looks like "The List" just got a little longer. Here's a tid-bit of comparative information obtained using a Stoney Point overall length gauge.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1679/cartridgeoaltolands01yw6.jpg


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/516/stoneygauge01framedqm4.jpg

[jmart]

Interesting.

Randall's list of reamer specs shows the delta in freebore length between a .223 reamers and a NATO reamers is aprox .031". That's comparing Clymer and Pacific Tool .223 reamers (.0250" freebore length) with JGS and Pacific Tool NATO reamers (.0566" freebore length).

Your data suggests the delta between the Noveske and NATO is on the order of .070", or more than twice the difference between .223 and 5.56 reamer freebore dimensions. I realize that you have to take into account leade angle as well, and the NATO angles are shallower than .223, but this is interesting.

Are your Colt and Noveske chambers relatively new or does the Colt have a lot of rounds through it?

[JSGlock34]

Not sure if weight is a factor in the build you're considering, but the Noveske Recon barrel weighs 2lb 3oz including the gas block (just another stat to throw in the mix; not sure of the weights of the other barrels).

I'm very pleased with the accuracy of my Noveske Recon rifle (it has motivated me to get a more powerful optic to wring the tightest groups out of it), but a friend of mine is also getting impressive groups out of a 16" Larue Stealth upper. The LaRue barrels are Wylde chambered, polygonal rifled, with 1-8 twist, mid-length gas system and an Ion Bond coating. Might want to consider one of those as well.

[zchen]

Dennysguns/Global Tactical has one also
16" Recon Barrel

16" Midlength gas system
1:7 twist
Wylde Chamber
M4 Barrel Extensions
Barrels are SHILEN Match Grade Stainless Steel and made for us by John at WOA, custom chambered.. Guranteed sub MOA with Match Ammo
$325.00 each.


Standard or Bead blasted matte at no additional charge

[SHIVAN]

I can't geek out with the rest of you, but my WOA 18" barrel as well as my 10.5" Noveske barrels shoot very well. I just use Black Hills 77gr SMK, 75gr TAP, or Mk262. I'm usually never all set-up for wringing the maximum accuracy out of a given setup, but with a front rest or bipod @ 100yds using a KAC or WOA trigger, I could get sub-1" 5 shot groups without much hassle. Typically using 10x or 14x Leupold Mk4's.

[Abraxas]

Just tagging for interest

[Molon]

Interesting.

Randall's list of reamer specs shows the delta in freebore length between a .223 reamers and a NATO reamers is aprox .031". That's comparing Clymer and Pacific Tool .223 reamers (.0250" freebore length) with JGS and Pacific Tool NATO reamers (.0566" freebore length).

Your data suggests the delta between the Noveske and NATO is on the order of .070", or more than twice the difference between .223 and 5.56 reamer freebore dimensions. I realize that you have to take into account leade angle as well, and the NATO angles are shallower than .223, but this is interesting.

Are your Colt and Noveske chambers relatively new or does the Colt have a lot of rounds through it?

Those figures are misleading precisely because they don't take into account the length and angle of the leade, which plays a big part in the amount of "jump" for a 5.56mm NATO chamber.

My measurements were taken with barrels with very low round counts.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/l4c8goc2ab.jpg

[Molon]

Here's an even better visual comparing the 5.56mm NATO chamber to that of the 223 Remington chamber, with the help of one of Ned Christiansens's pictures. Be sure to note the distance from the orange line to the blue line. That's roughly how much farther a bullet has to jump to get to the lands in a 5.56mm NATO chamber.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/oobedcsfkc.jpg

[CLHC]

Highly interesting thread going on here! :cool:

[jmart]

Here's an even better visual comparing the 5.56mm NATO chamber to that of the 223 Remington chamber, with the help of one of Ned Christiansens's pictures. Be sure to note the distance from the orange line to the blue line. That's roughly how much farther a bullet has to jump to get to the lands in a 5.56mm NATO chamber.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/oobedcsfkc.jpg

That's the delta to when each bullet is fully engaged. But the real delta between points where a bullet first contacts the rifling is less. It's really where the rifling starts, and in your first pic, it would be the juncture at the throat/rifling reaming just below the orange line, and in the second picture it would be just above the orange line, at the base of the rifling mark.

The angular difference between the leade angles is only 1.5 deg. That's not going to account for a huge delat between the two chambers.

[spamsammich]

Molon, FWIW the pin in the Noveske barrels I've seen and have are 1/8" straight pins. Not tapered, sorry to nitpick.

[Molon]

Molon, FWIW the pin in the Noveske barrels I've seen and have are 1/8" straight pins. Not tapered, sorry to nitpick.

You obviously haven't seen my Noveske RECON barrels, because they most definitely have taper pins.;)

[Molon]

That's the delta to when each bullet is fully engaged. But the real delta between points where a bullet first contacts the rifling is less. It's really where the rifling starts, and in your first pic, it would be the juncture at the throat/rifling reaming just below the orange line, and in the second picture it would be just above the orange line, at the base of the rifling mark.

The angular difference between the leade angles is only 1.5 deg. That's not going to account for a huge delat between the two chambers.

It's a well established fact that a bullet may have to be seated-out an additional 0.125" or more to touch the lands in a 5.56mm NATO chamber compared to a 223 Remington chamber. An extra 0.125" is definitely a "huge deal". You don't have to take my word for it either. Spend some time reading the works of Derrick Martin or Glen Zediker.

[SkiDevil]

Noveske 16.1 Recon 5.56mm Barrel (includes gas block) $480.00

1:7 Twist improved polygonal rifling
5.56 Noveske Match Mod 0 chamber
Mid length gas system
M4 feedramps
1⁄2 X 28 TPI
Bead blasted finish
1″ long gas block seat
Pinned low profile gas block
Medium Contour


Mr. Katar,
I cannot provide such a thorough and detailed explanation as Molon, but I will state that IMHO the NOVESKE is definitely worth the money.

I have the barrel listed above in one of my rifles. It can really SHOOT. I mounted a low powered scope, so I cannot provide any long distance accuracy information. But, when I first shot it to sight-in the TROY BUIS at 50 yards. There was simply one ragged hole in the target, slightly smaller than dime. I was certainly impressed. Especially considering that it was fairly windy that particular afternoon.
LOAD: Remington Green Box 55 gr FMJ

I firmly believe, if you decide to purchase the NOVESKE barrel or an upper incorporating said barrel that you will be quite pleased.:D

If this is useful to you also, a friend that I shoot with recently purchased an upper with the WOA barrel and was pleased. The barrel is an 18" SS and quite accurate, according to him. I have not had a chance to shoot his rifle yet.
I believe that it was from Ranier if I recall correctly.

Good Luck,
SkiDevil

[Jay Cunningham]

Any additional experience out there with these barrels?

[shadco]

Wouldn't the Daniel Defense 16" midlength recon barrel fit in here?

[Jay Cunningham]

Wouldn't the Daniel Defense 16" midlength recon barrel fit in here?

I do not see them on the DD website.

[spamsammich]

Rainier has a bunch and they're available on the website.

[shadco]

Rainier has a bunch and they're available on the website.

I've got one coming from GandR

4150 Steel 1:7 Twist
Chrome Lined
Mid length gas system
M4 feedramps
1⁄2 X 28 TPI
Black Milspec Finish
Medium Contour
MP Tested

[Jay Cunningham]

Hmmm... I'm not really sure that I'd include a chrome lined barrel with the others that I listed. Just looking at the spec sheet it doesn't look to be in the same category.

[shadco]

Hmmm... I'm not really sure that I'd include a chrome lined barrel with the others that I listed. Just looking at the spec sheet it doesn't look to be in the same category.

Read and learn

Thanks

[UGASeven]

I have a CLE (Compass Lake Engineering) barrel also; 16” HBar profile, Car Gas System, SS, & Fluted. $425 w\a matched bolt.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n91/stallwle/AR/SANY4088.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n91/stallwle/AR/DSC00181.jpg

first 6 shots out of the barrel
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n91/stallwle/AR/Target.jpg

[C4IGrant]

The LT barrels are made by Loather Walther (FYI).

Out of all the SS barrels mentioned, only the BCM barrel is made by the contracted company to USMC with the exact chamber called out by the Govt. That barrel is also the only one that is HPT/MP'd.





C4

[ra2bach]

I don't mean to offend anyone but groups shot at 50 or 25 yards do not really give an indication of a barrel's true potential. and anything less than five, preferably seven or ten, shots is statistically insignificant.

for instance, I have a .243 win barrel that has shot in the "ones" on occasion with three shots. that would be a match winner at any benchrest match in the world. however, ten shot averages generally open up to somewhere between .4 and .6 inches making it something quite less than a benchrest barrel and more into the realm of "very interesting".

[mobiusnc]

I'm really glad this thread came up, I'm in the planning stages of my first build. I'm on the fence between ordering a 16" Larue LT011 upper with a 12" handguard and doing a mix and match of my own. The best figure I can come up with is ~$1100 for my own upper build (if I am smart about combining orders for shipping).

On one hand I'll gain a lot of experience and probably enjoy the build itself. On the other, I'll probably spend about the same on the build vs. the complete Larue upper and I'm not sure how the quality of the end product will compare.

I have two questions for anyone who has read this far. Are there any other companies making a similar configuration to the 16" Larue LT011 upper (other than Novoske)? How do you think the following build would compare in quality?

Something like:

BCM 16" SS410™ Barrel with Mid Length Gas (stripped) 1/8 Twist $339.95


Daniel Defense Omega Rail 12 Rifle $303


Upper Receiver (w/ Laser T-Markings) - (M4 Feedramps) $109.95


RRA AR15 Bolt Group Assembly $140


Charging Handle $20


Vortex Flash hider $48


Lo Profile Gas Block $32


Gas Tube $12


Barrel Nut $7

-------------------------------------
TOTAL: $1005.00 (+ shipping and overlooked parts)

ps: I'm sure I forgot some items on the list, not to mention tools :p

[UGASeven]

I don't mean to offend anyone but groups shot at 50 or 25 yards do not really give an indication of a barrel's true potential. and anything less than five, preferably seven or ten, shots is statistically insignificant.

for instance, I have a .243 win barrel that has shot in the "ones" on occasion with three shots. that would be a match winner at any benchrest match in the world. however, ten shot averages generally open up to somewhere between .4 and .6 inches making it something quite less than a benchrest barrel and more into the realm of "very interesting".

Sorry, I disagree, for a new SS barrel that not broken in, free hand, 1 moa at 25 is pretty damn impressive for anyone.

[UGASeven]

I'm really glad this thread came up, I'm in the planning stages of my first build. I'm on the fence between ordering a 16" Larue LT011 upper with a 12" handguard and doing a mix and match of my own. The best figure I can come up with is ~$1100 for my own upper build (if I am smart about combining orders for shipping).

On one hand I'll gain a lot of experience and probably enjoy the build itself. On the other, I'll probably spend about the same on the build vs. the complete Larue upper and I'm not sure how the quality of the end product will compare.

I have two questions for anyone who has read this far. Are there any other companies making a similar configuration to the 16" Larue LT011 upper (other than Novoske)? How do you think the following build would compare in quality?

Something like:

BCM 16" SS410™ Barrel with Mid Length Gas (stripped) 1/8 Twist $339.95


Daniel Defense Omega Rail 12 Rifle $303


Upper Receiver (w/ Laser T-Markings) - (M4 Feedramps) $109.95


RRA AR15 Bolt Group Assembly $140


Charging Handle $20


Vortex Flash hider $48


Lo Profile Gas Block $32


Gas Tube $12


Barrel Nut $7

-------------------------------------
TOTAL: $1005.00 (+ shipping and overlooked parts)

ps: I'm sure I forgot some items on the list, not to mention tools :p

If you have a vice and good work surface then your ahead of the game, you just need the upper receiver vice block. The only other expensive thing you may need is some HQ punches, and that’s only if you need to remove an FSB, or forward assist button or your new FSB uses pins. If you don’t get a “Set” of punches, remember at a minimum you’ll need the punch for installing the gas tube pin in the low profile Gas Block.

[txbonds]

I'm really glad this thread came up, I'm in the planning stages of my first build. I'm on the fence between ordering a 16" Larue LT011 upper with a 12" handguard and doing a mix and match of my own. The best figure I can come up with is ~$1100 for my own upper build (if I am smart about combining orders for shipping).

On one hand I'll gain a lot of experience and probably enjoy the build itself. On the other, I'll probably spend about the same on the build vs. the complete Larue upper and I'm not sure how the quality of the end product will compare.

I have two questions for anyone who has read this far. Are there any other companies making a similar configuration to the 16" Larue LT011 upper (other than Novoske)? How do you think the following build would compare in quality?

Something like:

BCM 16" SS410™ Barrel with Mid Length Gas (stripped) 1/8 Twist $339.95


Daniel Defense Omega Rail 12 Rifle $303


Upper Receiver (w/ Laser T-Markings) - (M4 Feedramps) $109.95


RRA AR15 Bolt Group Assembly $140


Charging Handle $20


Vortex Flash hider $48


Lo Profile Gas Block $32


Gas Tube $12


Barrel Nut $7

-------------------------------------
TOTAL: $1005.00 (+ shipping and overlooked parts)

ps: I'm sure I forgot some items on the list, not to mention tools :p



Personally, I'd got with the BCM barrel, even if you paid the extra $200 to have someone build it for you. Why not check with Grant at G&R to see what it would cost to have him put together an upper with that barrel and a DD Lite rail. Might not cost much more, and they will do the assembly for you too..........

[C4IGrant]

I'm really glad this thread came up, I'm in the planning stages of my first build. I'm on the fence between ordering a 16" Larue LT011 upper with a 12" handguard and doing a mix and match of my own. The best figure I can come up with is ~$1100 for my own upper build (if I am smart about combining orders for shipping).

On one hand I'll gain a lot of experience and probably enjoy the build itself. On the other, I'll probably spend about the same on the build vs. the complete Larue upper and I'm not sure how the quality of the end product will compare.

I have two questions for anyone who has read this far. Are there any other companies making a similar configuration to the 16" Larue LT011 upper (other than Novoske)? How do you think the following build would compare in quality?

Something like:

BCM 16" SS410™ Barrel with Mid Length Gas (stripped) 1/8 Twist $339.95


Daniel Defense Omega Rail 12 Rifle $303


Upper Receiver (w/ Laser T-Markings) - (M4 Feedramps) $109.95


RRA AR15 Bolt Group Assembly $140


Charging Handle $20


Vortex Flash hider $48


Lo Profile Gas Block $32


Gas Tube $12


Barrel Nut $7

-------------------------------------
TOTAL: $1005.00 (+ shipping and overlooked parts)

ps: I'm sure I forgot some items on the list, not to mention tools :p


Drop the RRA BCG and a good GB (VLTOR) is going to run you $50-$60.


C4

[ra2bach]

Sorry, I disagree, for a new SS barrel that not broken in, free hand, 1 moa at 25 is pretty damn impressive for anyone.

sorry, not that impressive. 25 yards isn't really an indication of potential accuracy. my Highpower rifle would do that with open sights and it wasn't even that accurate of a setup.

it was roughly a "minute" shooter, but it was honest. meaning it would shoot a minute at 100, at 200, and at 300 yards. I was the weak link as I was not good enough to hold a minute at 600...

[Failure2Stop]

Sorry, I disagree, for a new SS barrel that not broken in, free hand, 1 moa at 25 is pretty damn impressive for anyone.

How are you figuring 1MOA?
Do you mean your 3-shot groups?
A dime is about 7/10ths of an inch in diameter.
1 MOA at 25 yards is .25 (1/4) inch.
Your groups are at least twice that size, about .7 inches for a three-shot 2.8 MOA group, which would probably be more like 4.3 MOA if you fired 10 shots. Now, 4.3 MOA isn't horrible shooting from the standing, but trying to discuss precision capability by bringing up performance in a standing position is a non-starter.

Accuracy testing is done from a bench or rest for a reason: consistency. There are simply too many variables and changing values for the standing to be relevant.

[MarshallDodge]

I just picked one of these up:


WOA 16 Stainless Steel Match Grade Barrel $273.00
16″ Stainless Steel Match Grade Barrel
1:7 Twist
Midlength Gas System
.223 Wylde Chamber
Bead Blasted Finish

I have only taken it out of the box and looked it over. The quality looks excellent, now I need to mount it to an upper and try it out.....

[UGASeven]

sorry, not that impressive. 25 yards isn't really an indication of potential accuracy. my Highpower rifle would do that with open sights and it wasn't even that accurate of a setup. ...

So your Minute shooter would group like this right out of the box? that's pretty impressive for a BRAND NEW RIFLE wouldn't you say, oh wait you already said it not...

[UGASeven]

How are you figuring 1MOA?
Do you mean your 3-shot groups?
A dime is about 7/10ths of an inch in diameter.
1 MOA at 25 yards is .25 (1/4) inch.
Your groups are at least twice that size, about .7 inches for a three-shot 2.8 MOA group, which would probably be more like 4.3 MOA if you fired 10 shots. Now, 4.3 MOA isn't horrible shooting from the standing, but trying to discuss precision capability by bringing up performance in a standing position is a non-starter.

Accuracy testing is done from a bench or rest for a reason: consistency. There are simply too many variables and changing values for the standing to be relevant.

no, the two (two shot groups).

you guys keep losing the central point of my orig post, nm...

[G34Shooter]

Sorry, I disagree, for a new SS barrel that not broken in, free hand, 1 moa at 25 is pretty damn impressive for anyone.



Just an FYI... 1 MOA = 1/4 inch at 25 yards

[UGASeven]

Just an FYI... 1 MOA = 1/4 inch at 25 yards

ugh... did you honestly think I didn't know that? Sorry no offence.

[G34Shooter]

ugh... did you honestly think I didn't know that? Sorry no offence.



Not by your 25 yard 1 MOA target, maybe if it was a 1 shot group :D

[parishioner]

Some people might have already read this thread, but here is someone's opinion who has real world experience with the Noveske Recon barrel.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=10551

[eternal24k]

It would be nice if the weight of each barrel was listed