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markdeerhunter
01-16-07, 10:07
Who makes the upper reciever when you buy a SDI complete upper?Are they made in house or by someone like CMT?

C4IGrant
01-16-07, 17:37
Who makes the upper reciever when you buy a SDI complete upper?Are they made in house or by someone like CMT?

I am pretty certain that they do not make them in house. I am going to guess that they get them from the same place that FN get's theirs.


C4

Rob96
01-17-07, 03:39
I am pretty certain that they do not make them in house. I am going to guess that they get them from the same place that FN get's theirs.


C4


I was watching a show on the Military Channel where they took a tour of the FN plant. They showed the uppers being machined in-house.:confused:

Robb Jensen
01-17-07, 05:02
Sabre Defence probably finish machines their receivers but the forgings are likely Cerro, Cardinal or Anchor-Harvey forgings like most other companies use.

C4IGrant
01-17-07, 08:58
I was watching a show on the Military Channel where they took a tour of the FN plant. They showed the uppers being machined in-house.:confused:

That is correct. Do you think they have the capability to keep up with demand?

Most every manufacturer I know, outsources some things to keep up.



C4

Rob96
01-18-07, 04:10
That is correct. Do you think they have the capability to keep up with demand?

Most every manufacturer I know, outsources some things to keep up.



C4

The way demand is rightnow, heck no. I do know they would have to outsource. I just thought it was being said all upper receivers were outsourced.

M4arc
01-28-07, 13:03
FWIW the April 2007 issue of Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement has an article on a Sabre Defence carbine and they state, "Sabre actually manufactures 85 to 90 percent of every rifle that leaves their 40,000-square-foot facility."

It then goes on to state, "Sabre forges every upper and lower receiver and actually rifles its own barrels from blanks."

Later on in the article I found this, "About the only components not made by Sabre in house are small fire control components that are purchased from outside sources."

The more I see and learn about Sabre the more impressed I get.

C4IGrant
01-28-07, 13:13
FWIW the April 2007 issue of Gune & Weapons for Law Enforcement has an article on a Sabre Defence carbine and they state, "Sabre actually manufactures 85 to 90 percent of every rifle that leaves their 40,000-square-foot facility."

It then goes on to state, "Sabre forges every upper and lower receiver and actually rifles its own barrels from blanks."

Later on in the article I found this, "About the only components not made by Sabre in house are small fire control components that are purchased from outside sources."

The more I see and learn about Sabre the more impressed I get.

Gun writers have a hard time with the difference between Manufacturing and Assembling. From talking with SD, they get their BCG's from two different sources. One is their plant in the UK and the other is from where I get my FN contracted BCG's. They also buy their upper receivers from there as well.

They DO make their barrels in house though and DO have their own chrome plating setup (which is impressive).


C4

C4IGrant
01-28-07, 13:20
One last piece of educational info for those looking to buy SD compete uppers. Some of their dealers are buying JUST their barrels and then putting them on cheap upper receivers and cheap BCG's. This is why some dealers complete SD uppers are a lot cheaper than other dealers. I personally classify this as a very shady business practice and have told SD that they might want to correct this lie before it comes back to bite them.

LMT USED to sell just barrels and then caught dealers doing what is now being done to SD and is why they stopped selling barrels.



C4

RyanS
01-28-07, 13:41
I got my SDI midlegth upper from Talon Arms. When it arrived, the receiver had Anchor Harvey markings. So tell me...is this really an SDI upper or one put together by Talon Arms? :confused:

Robb Jensen
01-28-07, 13:57
I got my SDI midlegth upper from Talon Arms. When it arrived, the receiver had Anchor Harvey markings. So tell me...is this really an SDI upper or one put together by Talon Arms? :confused:

That just means Anchor Harvey forged the upper receiver, it doesn't however mean that AH did the machining nor the anodizing.

C4IGrant
01-28-07, 14:01
I got my SDI midlegth upper from Talon Arms. When it arrived, the receiver had Anchor Harvey markings. So tell me...is this really an SDI upper or one put together by Talon Arms? :confused:

The AH forge marking, tells you nothing. Colt, LMT, Stag, etc, etc all use forging's from a variety of companies.

As far as me calling out dealers for pushing fake SD uppers, that isn't going to happen.

What I will tell you, is that a 16" M4 upper with an A3 carry handle should cost you somewhere around the $870 range. This price is based off their 2007 catalog.



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ssmoore
01-28-07, 19:28
So who is this manufacturer thats making all this stuff for fn?

Hawkeye
01-29-07, 09:11
I got my SDI midlegth upper from Talon Arms. When it arrived, the receiver had Anchor Harvey markings. So tell me...is this really an SDI upper or one put together by Talon Arms? :confused:

I am fairly certain that if you ordered it from Talon, its a Sabre upper.

SinnFéinM1911
01-29-07, 10:06
So who is this manufacturer thats making all this stuff for fn?


We at FN Manufacturer 100% of our upper's in house. I hope this awnsers your question.

Brett

C4IGrant
01-29-07, 11:22
We at FN Manufacturer 100% of our upper's in house. I hope this awnsers your question.

Brett


Hey Brett, check you PM for who is stating otherwise.



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55Kingpin
01-29-07, 15:00
I was tracking, but now I am completely cornfused.....:confused:

Grendelizer
01-30-07, 22:43
I dug out my Sabre Defence Industries info from SHOT Show 2007, and here's what they say:

From the message by Guy Savage, president, at the beginning of the brochure:

"Other manufacturers assemble their rifles with parts purchased from various machine shops. It cuts costs, but their tolerances have to be looser in order to make sure everything fits together."

"That's just not good enough for Sabre. The uppers, lowers and barrels on our weapons are manufactured in-house to incredibly tight tolerances. The result is a weapon with superior fit and finish — a difference you can see and feel."

From the "About Sabre" section of their brochure:

"We custom mill most of our rifle parts as well as the barrel in order to produce superior fit, finish and performance."

What I'm assuming that all boils down to is they get their upper receiver forgings from one of the three places everyone else does, but that they then mill those forgings in-house. Is that the way you guys read it?

John

SinnFéinM1911
01-31-07, 01:19
I was tracking, but now I am completely cornfused.....:confused:


All of FN's Uppers are made in house. PM me if you have any questions.

Brett

Hawkeye
01-31-07, 06:55
I dug out my Sabre Defence Industries info from SHOT Show 2007, and here's what they say:

From the message by Guy Savage, president, at the beginning of the brochure:

"Other manufacturers assemble their rifles with parts purchased from various machine shops. It cuts costs, but their tolerances have to be looser in order to make sure everything fits together."

"That's just not good enough for Sabre. The uppers, lowers and barrels on our weapons are manufactured in-house to incredibly tight tolerances. The result is a weapon with superior fit and finish — a difference you can see and feel."

From the "About Sabre" section of their brochure:

"We custom mill most of our rifle parts as well as the barrel in order to produce superior fit, finish and performance."

What I'm assuming that all boils down to is they get their upper receiver forgings from one of the three places everyone else does, but that they then mill those forgings in-house. Is that the way you guys read it?

John

That is my understanding.

C4IGrant
01-31-07, 08:10
That is my understanding.

Mine as well, but I think there are exceptions to the rule when a company gets behind sometimes.




C4

mtdawg169
01-31-07, 13:06
Mine as well, but I think there are exceptions to the rule when a company gets behind sometimes.




C4

meaning that they start with the forging and do everything from there on out?

C4IGrant
01-31-07, 13:07
meaning that they start with the forging and do everything from there on out?

Yes. I think when companies get behind though, they have to go out and buy items from time to time.



C4

mtdawg169
01-31-07, 13:26
What I will tell you, is that a 16" M4 upper with an A3 carry handle should cost you somewhere around the $870 range. This price is based off their 2007 catalog.



C4

Grant, do you mean without handguards of any type? That is much higher than I have ever seen a purported Sabre upper sell for.

How does Bravo sell thiers for $420? (I'm sure they'll be going up this year as well when they become available.

EDIT: typo

C4IGrant
01-31-07, 13:32
Grant, do you mean without handguards of any type? That is much higher than I have ever seen a purported Talon upper sell for.

How does Bravo sell thiers for $420? (I'm sure they'll be going up this year as well when they become available.


The upper I quoted comes with plastic HG's. As I stated, this price is from their 2007 price sheet. If TA still has some stuff from 2006, then that is how they are selling them cheaper.



C4

Dave L.
01-31-07, 15:04
Grant,

Did you say SD Stopped selling just barrels? Or can you still get SD barrels w/extension/gastube/f-fsp?

What kind of barrels are FN using(since it was earlier in the thread)?

mtdawg169
01-31-07, 15:11
The upper I quoted comes with plastic HG's. As I stated, this price is from their 2007 price sheet. If TA still has some stuff from 2006, then that is how they are selling them cheaper.



C4

Sorry, i did not mean to name Talon, I meant Sabre upper. Corrected my original post to avoid confusion.

BTW, I was on the Talon website a couple of weeks ago and they sold out of Sabre uppers, so I'm sure their prices are heading North as soon as they restock.

C4IGrant
01-31-07, 15:40
Grant,

Did you say SD Stopped selling just barrels? Or can you still get SD barrels w/extension/gastube/f-fsp?

What kind of barrels are FN using(since it was earlier in the thread)?


Nope, never said that. You can buy just SD barrels.

I imagine that FN uses 4150 Vanadium (per the TDP).


C4

Dave L.
01-31-07, 16:38
Nope, never said that. You can buy just SD barrels.

I imagine that FN uses 4150 Vanadium (per the TDP).


C4

Thanks for, clearing that up (we wouldn't want people to think you were spreading rumors;) )

So what is the MSRP on a SD 14.5 or 16 middy?

C4IGrant
01-31-07, 18:39
Thanks for, clearing that up (we wouldn't want people to think you were spreading rumors;) )

So what is the MSRP on a SD 14.5 or 16 middy?

MSRP is $405 for a 1/7 HPT/MPI barrel with a M4 barrel extension on it.



C4

C4IGrant
02-01-07, 14:22
I dug out my Sabre Defence Industries info from SHOT Show 2007, and here's what they say:

From the message by Guy Savage, president, at the beginning of the brochure:

"Other manufacturers assemble their rifles with parts purchased from various machine shops. It cuts costs, but their tolerances have to be looser in order to make sure everything fits together."

"That's just not good enough for Sabre. The uppers, lowers and barrels on our weapons are manufactured in-house to incredibly tight tolerances. The result is a weapon with superior fit and finish — a difference you can see and feel."

From the "About Sabre" section of their brochure:

"We custom mill most of our rifle parts as well as the barrel in order to produce superior fit, finish and performance."

What I'm assuming that all boils down to is they get their upper receiver forgings from one of the three places everyone else does, but that they then mill those forgings in-house. Is that the way you guys read it?

John


I talked to SD about this today. Their lowers are 100% made in house. As I thought, if they get behind, they use another companies uppers.

We also talked about the fact that some (or all) of their stocking dealers have and do use other parts for their "SD" uppers that are NOT SD parts. They realize that this is a problem and will most likely start to mark their upper receivers and maybe their BCG's in the future.


C4

Austin_Nichols
02-05-07, 23:23
Nope, never said that. You can buy just SD barrels.

I imagine that FN uses 4150 Vanadium (per the TDP).


C4

No such thing.

They have three MIL-B-11595E choices:

Ordnance 4150
Ordnance 4150 Resulferized
Chrome Moly Vanadium (CMV)

CMV is NOT 4150. Not to nit pick, but this is a common misconception.

Ellery Holt
02-06-07, 00:31
For what it's worth, this is how Sabre Defence describes their barrels:

http://mysite.verizon.net/tportinga/sdad.gif

C4IGrant
02-06-07, 08:30
No such thing.

They have three MIL-B-11595E choices:

Ordnance 4150
Ordnance 4150 Resulferized
Chrome Moly Vanadium (CMV)

CMV is NOT 4150. Not to nit pick, but this is a common misconception.



That is correct, but they are all basically the same quality as long as the 4150 complies with the specifications listed in 11595.



C4

RyanS
02-06-07, 08:49
I talked to SD about this today. Their lowers are 100% made in house. As I thought, if they get behind, they use another companies uppers.

We also talked about the fact that some (or all) of their stocking dealers have and do use other parts for their "SD" uppers that are NOT SD parts. They realize that this is a problem and will most likely start to mark their upper receivers and maybe their BCG's in the future.


C4

Thanks for the follow up Grant.

C4IGrant
02-06-07, 09:14
Thanks for the follow up Grant.


Not a problem. I will also add that they upper receivers they use from time to time a top notch so the consumer isn't getting a lesser grade product.



C4

M4arc
02-06-07, 14:43
I dug out my Sabre Defence Industries info from SHOT Show 2007, and here's what they say:

From the message by Guy Savage, president, at the beginning of the brochure:

"Other manufacturers assemble their rifles with parts purchased from various machine shops. It cuts costs, but their tolerances have to be looser in order to make sure everything fits together."

"That's just not good enough for Sabre. The uppers, lowers and barrels on our weapons are manufactured in-house to incredibly tight tolerances. The result is a weapon with superior fit and finish — a difference you can see and feel."

From the "About Sabre" section of their brochure:

"We custom mill most of our rifle parts as well as the barrel in order to produce superior fit, finish and performance."

What I'm assuming that all boils down to is they get their upper receiver forgings from one of the three places everyone else does, but that they then mill those forgings in-house. Is that the way you guys read it?

John

Excellent, thanks!

That is essentially what I read in the April 2007 issue of Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement.

I'm not saying that gun rags are always accurate but a statement like "Sabre forges every upper and lower receiver and actually rifles its own barrels from blanks" is pretty cut and dry.

ETA: I said it before and I'll say it again, the more I learn about Sabre the more impressed I am.