View Full Version : who makes all ar lowers?
i was told all ar lowers come from the same 4 plants, the each company does the final work on them
true?
who are the 4? and who buys from them?
thopkins22
06-16-09, 23:27
Forgings come from relatively few places...I don't know what four. But a forging is a long way from a finished lower.
true, but if everyone uses the same CAD mil-specs, arnt most lowers the "same" other then finish?
i was told all ar lowers come from the same 4 plants, the each company does the final work on them
true?
who are the 4? and who buys from them?
You'll never get a final answer to this question because most of the companies switch suppliers on a fairly regular basis depending on demand and production.
I wondered the same question. I have a RRA lower, that I switched the stock to an EMOD, and had the trigger work done. So I wonder, is it a "low end" lower. Its topped off with a Noveske I referenced in earlier post.
true, but if everyone uses the same CAD mil-specs, arnt most lowers the "same" other then finish?
Yep...for the most part. You rarely hear of a "bad" forged receiver.
I think that the biggest part is the amount of quality control that goes into them. I know that top end sellers have a much better quality control than the lower end ones. Several years ago I had an Olympic Arms lower that was perfect, except it the mag well was VERY tight. I tried over 200 mags and I couldn't find any that would drop free. It was just out of specs. It is all about the amount of quality control that goes into the manufacturing of it. You get what you pay for.
This is nonsense. I wasnt going to post as I usually dont involve my self in this errornet bullshit. There arent 4 places, anyone who tells you this is trying to sell you a piece of shit "they are all made by the same people you're just paying for a name" I just stare at people that say this crap until something else retarded happens. There are several high end manufactorers that mill their lowers. But I'll will repeat what was said, You'll never get a straight answer. However I consider this nonsense. Ask the person that told you that where they got their info and you'll find out first hand its nonsense /vent off
I posted this a while back & cannot confirm how accurate & complete the list is:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=27554
Lewis Machine & Tool
LMT
Lauer
DS Arms
PWA
Eagle
Armalite
Knights Armament
Barrett
Continental Machine Tool
Stag
Rock River Arms
High Standard
Noveske
Century
Global Tactical
CLE
S&W
MGI
Wilson Tactical
Grenadier Precision
Colt
LAR Manufacturing
LAR
Bushmaster
Ameetec
DPMS
CMMG
Double Star
Fulton Armory
Spike's Tactical
JVP
Double Star
LRB
Charles Daly
Mega Machine Shop
Mega
GSE
Dalphon
POF
Alexander Arms
Olympic
Olympic
SGW
Tromix
Palmetto
Dalphon
Frankford
Century
Sun Devil
Sun Devil forged billet receivers
Superior
Superior Arms
LaRue
I posted this a while back & cannot confirm how accurate & complete the list is:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=27554
Lewis Machine & Tool
LMT
Lauer
DS Arms
PWA
Eagle
Armalite
Knights Armament
Barrett
Continental Machine Tool
Stag
Rock River Arms
High Standard
Noveske
Century
Global Tactical
CLE
S&W
MGI
Wilson Tactical
Grenadier Precision
Colt
LAR Manufacturing
LAR
Bushmaster
Ameetec
DPMS
CMMG
Double Star
Fulton Armory
Spike's Tactical
JVP
Double Star
LRB
Charles Daly
Mega Machine Shop
Mega
GSE
Dalphon
POF
Alexander Arms
Olympic
Olympic
SGW
Tromix
Palmetto
Dalphon
Frankford
Century
Sun Devil
Sun Devil forged billet receivers
Superior
Superior Arms
LaRue
Interesting. I have 8 AR lowers. Three are Stag, one RRA, two S&W, one CMMG, and one Charles Daly Defense. The Stags, RRA, and S&W's have accepted any magazine I have put in them and dropped them free both empty and full. The CMMG and CDD lowers had to have some fairly extensive filing done on the mag well to get them to drop all mags free. I will stick with CMT produced lowers based on my experience and this list.
At best, that list is nothing more than a guess and there are several errors that have been pointed out many times. None of the manufacturers will divulge the source of their lowers and the sources change fairly often.
At best, that list is nothing more than a guess and there are several errors that have been pointed out many times. None of the manufacturers will divulge the source of their lowers and the sources change fairly often.
Correct, especially since CMT has never made lowers for Colt.
Correct, especially since CMT has never made lowers for Colt.
Well, it's possible that CMT has supplied Colt with lowers at various times when Colt was unable to keep up with demand. A former Colt technician once told me that they occasionally had to outsource various parts if they couldn't meet a deadline, but it didn't happen often.
Well, it's possible that CMT has supplied Colt with lowers at various times when Colt was unable to keep up with demand. A former Colt technician once told me that they occasionally had to outsource various parts if they couldn't meet a deadline, but it didn't happen often.
Doubtful it was ever CMT since they own Diameco (now Colt Canada). I'm sure they get receivers from Colt Canada if they need them.
Of course, it's not really the manufacturer that matters as long as the part was made to spec.
dangertree
06-30-09, 22:55
Doubtful it was ever CMT since they own Diameco (now Colt Canada). I'm sure they get receivers from Colt Canada if they need them.
Of course, it's not really the manufacturer that matters as long as the part was made to spec.
Colt bought Diemaco in 2005.
CMT have been making AR parts in Hartford County since what, 1973? Who were they making them as a subcontractor all those years? Were there other AR companies to build for? Also they are a certified US DOD approved subcontractor. Again, that should tell you something.
rodinal220
07-01-09, 09:12
CMT has been the backbone for Colt for a long time.
http://www.continentalmachinetool.com/firearms.html
CMT has been the backbone for Colt for a long time.
http://www.continentalmachinetool.com/firearms.html
That link proves nothing.
rodinal220
07-01-09, 16:34
That link proves nothing.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
A picture of AR parts proves nothing except that CMT can take pictures of AR parts.
rodinal220
07-01-09, 16:53
A picture of AR parts proves nothing except that CMT can take pictures of AR parts.
Why would they do that??
decodeddiesel
07-01-09, 16:55
A picture is worth a thousand words.
:rolleyes:
A thousand words of what? "we make AR parts" x 250?
I am not saying CMT has never made anything for Colt. I don't have conclusive evidence one way or another, but that picture states nothing other than CMT makes AR parts and proves jack shit.
rodinal220
07-01-09, 19:27
:rolleyes:
A thousand words of what? "we make AR parts" x 250?
I am not saying CMT has never made anything for Colt. I don't have conclusive evidence one way or another, but that picture states nothing other than CMT makes AR parts and proves jack shit.
Really??Whom has CMT been making those parts for during the last 30+ years,Olympic Arms??
Its really no big secret that Colt relies heavily on CMT and Creed Monarch.Theres a reason why Colt Defense LLC aquired Diemaco,now Colt Canada.
In closing,the AR15 industry is an incestious one;).
decodeddiesel
07-01-09, 19:53
Really??Whom has CMT been making those parts for during the last 30+ years,Olympic Arms??
Its really no big secret that Colt relies heavily on CMT and Creed Monarch.Theres a reason why Colt Defense LLC aquired Diemaco,now Colt Canada.
In closing,the AR15 industry is an incestious one;).
Wow! What an argument! You factual approach to debate is without reproach! :rolleyes:
In closing, may I suggest some sort of credible reference when debating other than internet word of mouth?
CTBuilder1
07-01-09, 20:37
Really??Whom has CMT been making those parts for during the last 30+ years,Olympic Arms??
Its really no big secret that Colt relies heavily on CMT and Creed Monarch.Theres a reason why Colt Defense LLC aquired Diemaco,now Colt Canada.
In closing,the AR15 industry is an incestious one;).
It would not suprise me one bit if Colt, at one time, got some parts from CMT. However to call CMT the "backbone of Colt" without any proof but a picture on a website is absurd.
Just because they have been in business since the 70's doesn't mean they were cranking out AR15/M16 parts since the 70's. They are a machine shop. If you look at thier capabilities they go far beyond firearms components.
Are you a resident up here too, by any chance?
ETA - the fact that you mention a company like Creed Monarch makes me curious what you may know.......
decodeddiesel
07-01-09, 21:38
Are you a resident up here too, by any chance?
LOL, I used to be actually. I grew up in Portland, graduated form Portland High School.
Used to shoot in the rifle club at Blue Trail Range in Wallingford, Dave Lyman was my coach.
My Dad used to work by the Colt building in Hartford and I remember as a kid hanging out there listening to them test firing machine guns in the building. :D
CTBuilder1
07-01-09, 21:51
LOL, I used to be actually. I grew up in Portland, graduated form Portland High School.
Used to shoot in the rifle club at Blue Trail Range in Wallingford, Dave Lyman was my coach.
My Dad used to work by the Colt building in Hartford and I remember as a kid hanging out there listening to them test firing machine guns in the building. :D
That's funny. I was in Portland today doing a job.
decodeddiesel
07-01-09, 22:20
That's funny. I was in Portland today doing a job.
My Mom and Sister still live there.
txfireguy2003
07-01-09, 23:49
I think that the biggest part is the amount of quality control that goes into them. I know that top end sellers have a much better quality control than the lower end ones. Several years ago I had an Olympic Arms lower that was perfect, except it the mag well was VERY tight. I tried over 200 mags and I couldn't find any that would drop free. It was just out of specs. It is all about the amount of quality control that goes into the manufacturing of it. You get what you pay for.
I'll second this statement about QC. As I understand it, many aluminum parts start life as an ingot, are melted and poured into a mold, which gives them a rough (very rough) shape that vaguely resembles the final part. They are then milled in CNC machines to come to final specs. Many moons ago, I worked in a shop that did all of these processes in house, not for weapons mind you, but seems the process would be similar. Our CNC machines would all be loaded with the same CAD specs, and would turn out parts that were close, but not exactly alike. Now here's the kicker, parts would be slightly different from one machine to the next, AND from one part to the next coming out of the same machine! My job was to inspect the finished parts with a micrometer and verify that they were in spec. I didn't work there long, partly because I was offered a MUCH better paying job, but the rule in that factory was to test at least every 10th part for consistency, but I had a habit of wanting to test every part. So, if the finished parts from one machine can be different, and the parts from different machines can be different, even with the same CAD programming, how far off would it be from company to company/different brands and models of machines etc? We made car parts, so checking every 10th part was probably sufficient, but I wasn't happy with that. If I had been making rifle parts, where someone's life might be changed by the end result, I probably wouldn't be happy with checking every part just once. So, I'm not good at summarizing, as you see, but my point is, IF they all DO come from the same factories, and the machines are all loaded with the same specs, they can still be slightly out, and the difference comes in when the QC guy checks the part and says, "Close enough" or "Not good enough for me." If they are only testing every 10th part, that's where the poor parts come from.
Just my thoughts, I COULD be wrong, YMMV, IANAL etc.
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