View Full Version : Extractor O-rings??
flyboy1788
06-17-09, 16:24
who here uses them and who doesnt? I have heard pros and cons to both sides.
I assume you're referring to o-rings around the takedown lugs to reduce play between the the upper and lower receivers?
In that case, I suggest you read this thread: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=32599&highlight=accuwedge
It's primarily about the accuwedge, but o-rings are discussed as well.
My advice: It's a cheap solution to a non-existent problem that has the possibility of disabling your rifle. Stay away.
flyboy1788
06-17-09, 17:01
I assume you're referring to o-rings around the takedown lugs to reduce play between the the upper and lower receivers?
In that case, I suggest you read this thread: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=32599&highlight=accuwedge
It's primarily about the accuwedge, but o-rings are discussed as well.
My advice: It's a cheap solution to a non-existent problem that has the possibility of disabling your rifle. Stay away.
Im sorry, I meant extractor orings :D.
CryingWolf
06-17-09, 20:10
D'OH!!!
My M&P came with a black one installed. I don't plan on making any changes.
My S&W MP15A don't have them but my S&W MP15T has them. Both rifles run and shoots the same ammo just fine.
SWATcop556
06-17-09, 22:17
I've used them in my SBRs for years but my carbines and mid-length I'm running without them. So far I haven't noticed any performance issues. I am rapidly deciding that they are unnecessary if you have a quality extractor spring. My next carbine class I plan on running my work SBR without out one and I doubt I'll have any issues.
flyboy1788
06-17-09, 23:40
I've used them in my SBRs for years but my carbines and mid-length I'm running without them. So far I haven't noticed any performance issues. I am rapidly deciding that they are unnecessary if you have a quality extractor spring. My next carbine class I plan on running my work SBR without out one and I doubt I'll have any issues.
The more I read, the more I believe carbines dont need them. My BCM bolt has one, but I think I might take it off. Maybe the extractor will last longer that way. Do colt 6920s come with o-rings?
SWATcop556
06-18-09, 00:35
The more I read, the more I believe carbines dont need them. My BCM bolt has one, but I think I might take it off. Maybe the extractor will last longer that way. Do colt 6920s come with o-rings?
I don't think it will help or hurt with the life of the extractor but I'm seeing more and more that they are not necessary, but I'm still testing for my uses.
The 6920 I purchased several years ago did not come with one but did have the black insert and a stiff 5 coil spring. I'm not sure what Colt is shipping with these days. I've only kept the 6920 for personal reasons since it got me through the academy and it's the only Pony I own.
Just like condoms O-rings have their time and place. I believe that those who run full-auto or have SBR's will benefit from them. My belief is that they will actually reduce wear on the extractor spring assy.
SWATcop556
06-18-09, 11:46
Just like condoms O-rings have their time and place. I believe that those who run full-auto or have SBR's will benefit from them. My belief is that they will actually reduce wear on the extractor spring assy.
Good point. I don't run FA but I still have the O-rings in my SBRs. Hopefully I'll get to see how much better or worse they will run without them in this rifle school. I'm expecting to send about 1000-1500 rds downrange over three days. I'll let you know if mine chokes or if I see any extra wear-and-tear. This will be on a LMT 10.5 with a LMT FA BCG with the BravoCo upgrade without the O-ring.
I'm President of the Anti 0-ring society. I use them on none of my guns... including my SBRs, and I haven't had a single water leak yet.:cool:
Just a little info I witnessed a Wolf ply stuck in a bushy chamber. The extractor ripped the rim off the stuck case. The Bolt was using a blue insert and no O ring.
The Crane O-Rings were orig. designed for the MK18 (10.5).
IMHO, that is really the best place for them. Can you put them in a 16" carbine and have the gun run well? Sure Can. Can you put them in a 16" middy and have it cause a malfunction? Yes you can.
I personally run them in my suppressed 10.5, but do not run them in any other weapon (YMMV).
C4
flyboy1788
06-18-09, 14:53
I guess the consensus is that carbines generally dont need them. I will take mine out and see how she does with just the BCM black insert and spring. I dont really expect it to have problems. Thanks for the replies
Bushies don't have true 5.56 chambers so I am not surprised. I use the O-rings here on our 14.5 FA carbines and we have no issues. But, I also have been reaming the chambers as well. The reaming wasdue to issues with the east bloc SS109 ammo we were using. With true M855 we had no problems at all.
Just a little info I witnessed a Wolf ply stuck in a bushy chamber. The extractor ripped the rim off the stuck case. The Bolt was using a blue insert and no O ring.
Bushies don't have true 5.56 chambers...
You mean many Bushies.
Mine is spec, and I believe even Grant would verify that many of the newer ones are true spec. But, not all apparently.
Just clarifying. :)
flyboy1788
06-18-09, 18:13
You mean many Bushies.
Mine is spec, and I believe even Grant would verify that many of the newer ones are true spec. But, not all apparently.
Just clarifying. :)
How does one find out if the chamber dimensions are truly in spec?
Safety,
Quite possibly true. I haven't played with any newer ones. All of ours are about 5 years old. Maybe they did finally get a clue.
You mean many Bushies.
Mine is spec, and I believe even Grant would verify that many of the newer ones are true spec. But, not all apparently.
Just clarifying. :)
Heavy Metal
06-18-09, 18:49
Bushies don't have true 5.56 chambers so I am not surprised. I use the O-rings here on our 14.5 FA carbines and we have no issues. But, I also have been reaming the chambers as well. The reaming wasdue to issues with the east bloc SS109 ammo we were using. With true M855 we had no problems at all.
I bet the east block stuff was using a faster burning powder with a sharper pressure spike in the tighter throated chambers.
Heavy,
Interesting analysis. We debated the malfunctions and were looking at the ammo being the culprit. Not that it was bade per se, just that it was conflicting with the operating system. With the 5.56 AK's we have there were no issues at all.
I bet the east block stuff was using a faster burning powder with a sharper pressure spike in the tighter throated chambers.
How does one find out if the chamber dimensions are truly in spec?
The best way is to have a qualified armorer ream the chamber with a spec 5.56 bit. If there are shavings, you are/were off spec.
The best way is to have a qualified armorer ream the chamber with a spec 5.56 bit. If there are shavings, you are/were off spec.
That used to be the best way. Now we have Ned's Chamber Checker (which works very well).
C4
I don't use them, although I'm sure at least one of my guns has one in it that I've never bothered to remove.
I typically only recommend them if the shooter is having a problem and even then it's a stop-gap solution. Low-powered, steel cased ammo in a tight chamber with a small gas hole, AND having extraction issues, I would try one and see if it fixes the problem if a chamber reaming isn't possible.
OK, I'm goint to start by saying I have almost no rifle experience. That's why I love this site: it teaches me a lot.
I have an M&P 15. I took it apart to check it over and familiarize myself more with the rifle. My extractor had the black insert and an O-ring. Is the o-ring the reason the extractor was hard to disassemle/reassemble? I've seen videos where it didn't take much effort. It looks as though the o-ring acts as a type of bushing and stops the spring from compressing completely. Does the extraxtor just need to break in? I don't plan on messing around with it anymore until I start training with it anyway.
Is the o-ring the reason the extractor was hard to disassemle/reassemble?
Yes. Shitcan it. BCM doesn't recommend using them. They do however include them with their bolts, because the booger eaters on ARF want them.
flyboy1788
06-19-09, 13:57
Yes. Shitcan it. BCM doesn't recommend using them. They do however include them with their bolts, because the booger eaters on ARF want them.
ahahaha....nice :D I LOL'ed at that even though I am a member at TOS as well...:eek:
Heavy Metal
06-19-09, 22:16
Heavy,
Interesting analysis. We debated the malfunctions and were looking at the ammo being the culprit. Not that it was bade per se, just that it was conflicting with the operating system. With the 5.56 AK's we have there were no issues at all.
I know this wont tell much but when you dump a round, it is using stick or ball powder?
I'll get back to you on that.
I know this wont tell much but when you dump a round, it is using stick or ball powder?
SarcoBlaster
06-20-09, 04:21
Hmm... interesting info. I'll have to take the o-ring out before my next range session and see if it works; not sure why it wouldn't.
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