Which dedicated .22 AR upper/complete gun did you buy and why?

[rob_s]

Known complete uppers:
CMMG (http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?cart=1725699&cat=81&)
Model 1 Sales (http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=22LRUH16M4&storeid=1&image=22LRm4upper.gif)
Spike's Tactical (http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=26&products_id=122)
Tactical Solutions (http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=27&idproduct=877)

Known complete guns:
Colt/Umarex M4 Carbine .22 Tactical Rimfire (http://www.colt22rimfire.com/index.php?page=colt-m4-carbine)
Smith & Wesson M&P15-22 (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=753510&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15702&isFirearm=Y) and threaded barrel model (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=753510&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15702&isFirearm=Y)


What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other?
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
what were your initial impressions?
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
what's your current round count up to?
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
what is your current impression of your purchase?
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?


what I am NOT interested in hearing about are .22 drop-in kits on 5.56 upper and I am NOT interested in hearing about out-of-production uppers like the DPMS. I am also not interested in hearing bashing of one or the other, or hysterical responses/defenses if you feel like your choice is being slighted. Finally, while I'm not opposed to hearing about it, I'm not terribly interested in the Carbon 15 .22 upper or in the complete guns like the Umarex or the S&W dedicated .22 ARs. Complete, dedicated .22 uppers only.

[SeriousStudent]

I bought the TacSol upper.

1. Reading threads on here, and seeing member comments. LtCol Blish, Grant and others were proponents of the TacSol upper.

2. None. I had not shot either one, so I was going off member feedback. I had fired a Model 1 Sales .22 upper, and decided to pursue another path.

3. Excellent. It's accurate with irons, very easily to clean, and reliable with Black Dog mags.

4. The first two magazines experienced two FTE's each. This was with brand new mags, on a brand new upper. I was using Federal .22 Bulk Pack. I broke down the weapon, and added some more TW-25B to the internal rails, and it has worked flawlessly since. Two different mags, same ammo, brand new mags that have not had an issue since.

5. See above. I merely increased the lube a bit during the first 150 rounds.

6. Only 650-ish rounds so far. It's getting another 1100 next weekend.

7. No malf's after the initial two magazines mentioned. That was a total of 4 FTE's, which were very quick to clear. (I could almost hear Mr. Costa's voice in my head going "Okay, now power-stroke!") :D

8. Ridiculously happy. Everyone that has shot it walks away with a big goofy grin on their face. I have bought a Aimpoint C3 and a American Defense mount for it per your recommendation, and will wring that out next weekend.

9. Not at all. I love it. It's my fifth AR. I have it running on a CD lower with a G&R LPK, and all MOE gear. I'm going to buy another just like it for my daughter.

[mpardun]

10% Fathers day discount and $25 Black Dog Mags ($10 off) put me over the edge this am!

http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/viewContent.asp?idpage=9

[RogerinTPA]

I saw colt/umarex M-4 carbine for $600.00 on J&G sales. It's a complete rifle if anyone's interested.

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/rifles/ar-15-rifles/p/colt-umarex-m4-carbine%2C-22lr-tactical-rimfire%2C-16in-new/cPath/209_216/products_id/3581

[Niall of the Nine]

I purchased the Tactical Solutions "LT"

1. what made you choose one over the other?
2. what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?

Had not seen either in the flesh, just liked the Tactical Solutions web presentation. (I know... but sometimes you just get a good feeling about something and have to take a chance.)

3. what were your initial impressions?

Very positive. The materials, machining, fit and finish are beautiful.

4. what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
5. what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?

Problem with 4# Timney Trigger. Failures to fire due to its light hammer spring. Replaced it with two stage LMT trigger, problem solved. (T.S. specifically recommends using military triggers).

6. what's your current round count up to?

Am now nearing 600 rounds.

7. how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?

None, since trigger swap at 120 rounds.

8. what is your current impression of your purchase?

Positive. Very good accuracy and reliability. 100% function, even with cheap Federal "value pack" rounds. (With CCI Standard Velocity the smoothness and "quietness" (unsuppressed) is almost seductive.)

Only complaints: Like most 22 AR uppers, does no lock back after final round. And, the carrier can slide out of upper when off lower. Unlike a conventional AR-15 upper, the charging handle does not retain the carrier.... so, if you tilt the upper rearward (when off the lower) you will be in a "think fast" situation! :eek:

9. do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?

Not yet... I've seen several conversions that use the .223 barrel and have out shot all of them (even against known better shooters). All comments from others have been positive, and two orders that I know of have resulted.

[rob_s]

added a question 10 re: ammo. most of you have already addressed it.

[SeriousStudent]

Rob, I have only shot Federal .22 Bulk Pack in mine. TacSol specifically warns against using Remington Golden Bullets, so I never bothered to try them.

I have a couple of thousand rounds of Aguila .22, and I may try that next weekend, just for eval purposes. However, that particular load does not cycle reliably in my daughter's P-22, and has been relegated to revolver use only. it would be great to burn it up in the TacSol upper.

I am itching to try some Federal Auto Match, and some Eley, and see what kind of groups I can get with those, along with the new 2MOA Aimpoint C3. The problem is that it's easier to find Krugerrands here, than it is to get Federal ammo right now.

[uspc9mm]

I have a Spikes 5.5 inch upper that I run exclusively with a silencer. I have a DPMS hammer and BDM mags.

1)what made you choose one over the other?
- I was buying a factory sbr from them at the time.

2)what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
-Delivery was much faster than I expected.

3)what were your initial impressions?
-I noticed that a lot of the FTF problems people on the forums had seem to be fixed by increasing the feed lip on the bottom portion of the barrel chamber. I noticed that the Spikes upper already had this done.

4)what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
-I initially shot 200+ rds of minimags with a suppressor thru it. I had a few malfunctions here and there but the lower was also new too. I never clipped any of the recoil spring bc I didnt want the gun to potentially have return to battery problems.

5)what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
- I used a little bit of tetra grease on the rails and on the hammer, thats it.

6)what's your current round count up to?
-A few thousand.....

7)how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
-Ive probably had no more than a handful of malfunctions and they have Decreased. Its 100% now. It tends to have problems after about 1k rounds of no cleaning. Running a bore snake thru it seems to clear up any problems though.

8)what is your current impression of your purchase?
- I like it but my only beef is the recoil spring guide rod. The recoil spring is held on by an E-clip. If the e-clip snaps you have an expensive malfunction. Spikes is supposedly working on a one-piece guide rod. With a one piece the guide rod the whole setup would be rock solid.

9)do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
-Im happy with it.
10)what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
- CCI blazers in my experience are the best bulk ammo followed by Win Xperts. The upper shoots Rem and CCI subsonics without problem. In my experience the Fed bulk ammo has been inconsistent

Im no Spikes fanboy but Im pretty content with my .22 upper.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/nerun119/IMG_0288.jpg

[TonyM]

Tac sol- I tried the CMMG drop in unit but with a 1/7 twist barrel all I got was a pattern not a group.

I started with a new LMT lower but with a 25% failure rate I was pretty dissatisified. I changed to a well used RR lower and now I have a 99.8% success rate. The upper did not fit either lower well and I had to remove small amounts of metal in the mounting holes to get the pins to go through. I think the new springs might have been too much for the little .22 to overcome. I have about 1100-1200 rnds through it. Yesterday I ran about 150 rnds thru it and had 3 cases fail to fully eject, they would extract but not fully eject spin around and lodge in the extractor. Could be because I did not clean it after the last time I took it to the range. The last range session I shot about 300 rnds and only had 2 failure to eject. I am using Federal bulk pack and Federal target ammo. It also shoots WW bulk ammo fine. It does not like the Rem Golden Bullet but they tell you that up front.

While I was having problems Tac Sol was giving me ideas as to a fix and offered to give me a RGA to send it back several times. They wanted me to be 100% satisfied with their product.

Now that I have the bugs worked out I am very satisfied. I take a T1 off one of my other rifles and it prints about 1 inch low at 25 yds. I have not put it on a rest but offhand rapid fire I get about a 1 1/2 to 2 inch group. For the price of 2 cases of .223 I can now shoot all afternoon for about $ 15.00. Other than the bolt falling out when the halves are separated, and the bolt catch won't hold the bolt back I have no complaints.

[SeriousStudent]

10% Fathers day discount and $25 Black Dog Mags ($10 off) put me over the edge this am!

http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/viewContent.asp?idpage=9

Thanks for that heads-up! I just snagged five more mags, and have my 10 now. That got me five mags for the price of three!

[wahoo95]

What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other? I read great things about it and it has a Nickle Coated Bolt!

what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase? None.....first order from ST.

what were your initial impressions? I love it! Worked right out the box until i started tinkering to get it to run Aguila 38gr SS ammo.

what, if any, break-in issues did you have? None....worked right out the box.

what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work? I made a few changes with the Lakeside Spring kit to get it to run with Aguila 38gr SS ammo which led to light strikes. Have since returned it to stock configuration and it runs like a top. Since it's now broken in it even runs well on SS ammo.....it prefers Winchester SS.

what's your current round count up to? I've probably got about 5k rounds through it.

how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased? Not sure since I had lots when I made the spring changes. Since returning to the factory configuration I only get an occasional ammo related jam associated with rimfire ammo.

what is your current impression of your purchase? I love it! Was suprosed at how accurate it was so I put an inexpensive scope on it to see what it would do. Will easily shoot 1" groups at 25yds.

do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile? Nope

what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

Winchester Dynapoint, 333, & Xpert HV
Federal Bulk Pack
Eley Sport
CCI Standard & Blazer
Aguila 38gr SS(very quiet!)

what I am NOT interested in hearing about are .22 drop-in kits on 5.56 upper and I am NOT interested in hearing about out-of-production uppers like the DPMS. I am also not interested in hearing bashing of one or the other, or hysterical responses/defenses if you feel like your choice is being slighted. Finally, while I'm not opposed to hearing about it, I'm not terribly interested in the Carbon 15 .22 upper or in the complete guns like the Umarex or the S&W dedicated .22 ARs. Complete, dedicated .22 uppers only.

Answers in bold above. I went with the Spikes Dedicated Upper. I plan on having the barrel shortened at some point.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb244/a996hawk/IMG_2690.jpg

[Phazuka]

I have a spikes ST-22 SD and I have the M4 model on order with the Walther barrel. I'm thinking of cancelling that order for a CMMG M4 model.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c328/phazuka/Pic002.jpg

1. what made you choose one over the other? The cute asian girl from Spikes Tactical, MJ.
2. what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase? Only the web reviews on TOS
3. what were your initial impressions? Great dedicated upper, no failures attributed to the upper itself, only attributed to the 1st gen BDM's.
4. what, if any, break-in issues did you have? 1st Gen BDM mag issues with the flat followers
5. what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work? bought mag rebuild kits
6. what's your current round count up to? Almost 500
7. how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased? About 3 per mag, attributed solely to the mags. 2nd gen 15 round mags work fine with no malfuctions or stoppages
8. what is your current impression of your purchase? Best .22lr evar!
9. do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile? I'm getting a 2nd M4 model, just to have.
10. what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper? FVP

[CleverNickname]

never mind

[Yojimbo]

What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other?
I chose a TacSol M4 upper due to high praise it got from Grant, Pat Rogers and FJB.

what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
I had no experience with any of the other dedicated .22 uppers.

what were your initial impressions?
I very was impressed with it's construction.

what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
I had quite a few FTF/FTE issues during the first 500 rounds. I've determined that part of the issue was user based. I ran the .22 BCG very wet like my 5.56 BCG's which isn't a good thing for a blow back operated weapon.

I had also used Remington Thunderbolts which were not recommended for use by TacSol. Now I use Winchester Dynapoints and Federal 550 which have proven to be very reliable with the TacSol upper.

The other cause of the FTF issues were that the firing pin was a bit too short. TacSol provided me with new FP that was .0300 longer and that has cured the FTF issue.

what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
The changes that caused my TacSOl to function reliably were using Fed 550 ammo, running the BCG almost dry and installing the longer firing pin.

what's your current round count up to?
Around 6k.

how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
I don't have an exact number but I know it was greatly reduced after 500 rounds and is down to maybe 5-15 rounds per 500. My guess is that most of the malfunctions I'm seeing now are just due to quality of bulk ammo.


what is your current impression of your purchase?
I'm very happy with my purchase and would recommend the TacSol uppers to anyone looking for a dedicated .22 upper.

do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
No, because I basically see the same issues happening with the other dedicated uppers. IMHO, the .22 uppers are all somewhat sensitive to ammo and over lubing issues. Once you find a good combo of ammo and maintenance they should run really well.


what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

I have never really tested for accuracy but I was able to get about 2"-2.5" groups at 50 yards with Fed 550 using irons. That was good enough for my purposes but I have seen reports that the Rock Creek barrel used with the TacSol uppers are much more accurate than that.

Fed 550 bulk and Winchester Dynapoints are most reliable with my .22 upper.

[Jeep297]

Choice: Spike dedicated .22 upper, 16" walther barrel.

What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other? I heard a lot of good reviews about them.
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase? I had no experience prior to purchase
what were your initial impressions? I love it! It's been amazing so far.
what, if any, break-in issues did you have? No issues yet
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work? none
what's your current round count up to? A little over 1300
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased? I've had 2 malfunctions so far. One in the first mag and one at the end of the day. This was probably due to how dirty it was since I went through 600 rounds that day.
what is your current impression of your purchase? I could not be happier. It's now my wife's and I just bought another for myself
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile? nope
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper? I've only shot Federal bulk packs and CCI minimag so far but it seems to love the bulk packs.


.

Here's a pic of my wife with her target. She was having so much fun that she decided to shoot out the orange in the middle.


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/brandoneh297/Niceshot.jpg

[Stan_TheGunNut]

Known complete uppers:
CMMG (http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?cart=1725699&cat=81&)
Model 1 Sales (http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=22LRUH16M4&storeid=1&image=22LRm4upper.gif)
Spike's Tactical (http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=26&products_id=122)
Tactical Solutions (http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=27&idproduct=877)


What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other?
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
what were your initial impressions?
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
what's your current round count up to?
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
what is your current impression of your purchase?
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?





1) I purchased a Spikes based on some good reviews of them.

2) This was my first purchase from Spikes. It took around a month to get the upper. From talking with them, this was due to a parts availability issue with the rail. I had ordered a custom barrel length and expected it to take a little longer. I was able to communicate with one of their employees via email, and was kept aware of what the status of my upper was. I also spoke on the phone with one of their employees on a couple of occasions. Overall, my experience with them has been positive.

3) When I opened the box yesterday, my initial impressions were positive. A closer inspection gave me some pause though. I specifically ordered the upper to use with a silencer. To my eye, it looked like the bore was off center. This turned out to not be the case though. I shot it today with my silencer and had no issue in that regard. The only thing I'm dissatisfied with is that where the barrel was cut down and threaded, there is bare steel. It's not finished like the rest of the barrel. I'll probably do something to it because I dont' want any rust.

4) I managed to take it to the range for an hour or so today. The only ammo I had on hand was some Remington Golden Bullets, and some Federal (the variety of which I don't remember). The Federal would not cycle the gun at all, not once. After a few magazines, the Remington Golden Bullets functioned flawlessly. I only put perhaps 200 rounds thru the rifle (a guess...I don't normally keep a round count). The gun was shot as it came out of the box. I had not cleaned or lubed it.

5) I just shot it, and with Remington Golden Bullets, it seems to work fine.

6-10) Maybe 200 rounds give or take and so far I'm pleased. It's still too new to really answer the other questions.

[militarymoron]

answers in bold




What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other?
Spike's ST-22. The others weren't out at the time, except for Tacsol, which was other people were having problems with at that time.
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
full story on my website here http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.uppers2.html#spikes
what were your initial impressions?
see above link.
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
see above link
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
first barrel did not feed - had to smooth out feedramp and entrance to chamber. accuracy was unacceptable. spikes switched it out and upgraded to a lothar walther barrel, which performed very well (See link). i cut the recoil spring down by 1/2".
what's your current round count up to?
around 5k-6k
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
not counting initial problems with first barrel, it now malfunctions only with federal bulk pack. CCI mini mags work 99% of the time but american eagle 38gr have been flawless.
what is your current impression of your purchase?
best purchase of the year - fun and inexpensive to shoot
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
nope - happy with it and no reason to change
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
38 gr american eagle followed by CCI mini mags

[superman07]

What I want to know is:

1. what made you choose one over the other?
Picked up a Spikes based upon reccomendations at TOS.
2. what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
None before purchase.
3. what were your initial impressions?
Good, build quality was fine.
4. what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
Ran on a old DPMS lower but not on a dedicated spikes 22lr lower. Adjusted the hammer spring and went with a lighter JP Unit.
5. what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
Lightened the hammer spring. Stag spring was too tight.
6. what's your current round count up to?
Lost count, several thousand based upon number of 550 boxes retired.
7. how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
Almost completely stopped. Every now and again Ill get a case stuck in the upper and a simple clear works it out. Usually when firing quickly.
8. what is your current impression of your purchase?
very positive, however I keep up with spikes to see what new adjustments to make. Interested in this one piece guide rod.
9. do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
no not at this point.
10. what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
Winchester and Federal.

[davidk]

I bought a Spike's dedicated upper. I found it to be ammo sensitive, but once I found what it likes (Federal 550 bulk) its been flawless

[davidk]

I bought a Spike's dedicated upper. I found it to be ammo sensitive, but once I found what it likes (Federal 550 bulk) its been flawless. After finding the right ammo, I put 500 rounds through it in an afternoon--twice actually. Great fun knowing ammo is so cheap

[macman37]

Great thread Rob... I'm hoping to be in the market soon for a dedicated .22lr upper myself so I'm totally gonna swipe your research. :D

[nalesq]

I have had a Spike's Tactical .22LR upper for almost two years now, before most if not all of the other dedicated upper mentioned came out. I had no break-in issues, and did no tinkering to make it work. In the time I've had it I've shot about 10,000 rounds through it. So long as I feed it Federal Bulk Pack, American Eagle, or Aguila-brand ammo, and clean the thing every 500 rounds or so, it almost never malfunctions. Up to about 50 meters or so, which is as far as I've ever bothered to group it, it's easy to get 2-3 inch groups from the bench with an EOTech, with any of the above-indicated ammunition. This upper is one of the best weapon-related things I've ever spent money on and I'm extremely happy with it.

[mgobel]

Tac Sol M4 style upper. First 150 rounds were flawless. I went Tac Sol for the SS Bolt group.

More testing tomorrow.

ETA: I have now put 400 rounds through the upper. CCI Mimi mags / CCI Blazer / Federal Bulk pak / Federal Red box. No failures. I am very satisfied.

Mark

[Alaskapopo]

Known complete uppers:
CMMG (http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?cart=1725699&cat=81&)
Model 1 Sales (http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=22LRUH16M4&storeid=1&image=22LRm4upper.gif)
Spike's Tactical (http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=26&products_id=122)
Tactical Solutions (http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=27&idproduct=877)


What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other?
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
what were your initial impressions?
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
what's your current round count up to?
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
what is your current impression of your purchase?
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?


what I am NOT interested in hearing about are .22 drop-in kits on 5.56 upper and I am NOT interested in hearing about out-of-production uppers like the DPMS. I am also not interested in hearing bashing of one or the other, or hysterical responses/defenses if you feel like your choice is being slighted. Finally, while I'm not opposed to hearing about it, I'm not terribly interested in the Carbon 15 .22 upper or in the complete guns like the Umarex or the S&W dedicated .22 ARs. Complete, dedicated .22 uppers only.

1. Spikes and the reason was availability. Tactical Solutions was 6 months back at the time.
2. I had not shot either prior to purchase.
3. Initial impressions were it was finicky with ammo. (only worked with Federal bulk pack when it was new and the accuracy was so so 3 or so inches at 50 yards.
4. After about 4000 rounds the upper started to work with all ammo but Remington Gold Bullet. It is more accurate now that I can try difference ammo. About 1.5 inches at 50 yards. It even works with standard pressure Ely ammo.
5. I did break a hammer pin but it was a DPMS parts kit. I did not tinker with the upper in anyway.
6. When I first got the gun it was very finicky and the malfunction rate with the ammo it worked with was about 3 or 4 per 100 rounds. Now after 5k rounds through the gun it works until you get it so dirty the rounds don't want to chamber which is around 600 rounds. Then you need to clean it which is easy. So now I can go a long time without a malfunction.
7. I am very happy with my purchase. Its an excellent trainer and its a lot of fun.
8. I am happy with the model I purchase.
9.The upper works with pretty much anything now. Over its history Federal was the most reliable. CCI Blazer is the most accurate and my preferred plinking load now.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20auto%20rifles/Greenlean22.jpg

[maximus83]

This is great, a ton of useful info condensed into one thread.

My preference is similar to Rob's: want to avoid proprietary complete rifles (good as they may be) such as the Colt/Umarex or the S&W 15-22, and stick with .22lr uppers that can run on standard milspec lowers, and that use some type of fairly common .22lr magazine (seems like the "Black Dog" or "M261" mags have become a de facto standard).

From the thread, sounds like 2 of the top choices for training and plinking are the uppers from Spikes or Tactical Solutions. If I decide to go with more of a match/target oriented upper (something that would be similar to a CMP standard setup and help train for CMP matches), my understanding from John at White Oak Precision is that the Compass Lake Engineering uppers (http://www.compasslake.com/22uppers.htm) are a great option as well. Those CLE uppers cost over $1K though, so I don't know if I will go that way. Right now, a general-use .22lr upper sounds more appealing. I may look at the TacSol "LT" upper (which is set up differently from their "M4"), because that gives the flexibility of putting a carry handle and sights on it to set it up like a CMP match rifle. Or, you can run it as a flat top with an optic. More flexible, and several hundred dollars less than the CLE offering, though obviously it won't have the same accuracy potential.

[usmcchet9296]

Known complete uppers:
CMMG (http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?cart=1725699&cat=81&)
Model 1 Sales (http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=22LRUH16M4&storeid=1&image=22LRm4upper.gif)
Spike's Tactical (http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=26&products_id=122)
Tactical Solutions (http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=27&idproduct=877)


What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other?
I went with Spikes (complete upper and lower) over TacSol on the basis of recommendations from this site and others also I could add a USMC logo on it. )Note the rifle has a standard barrel and I get about 1 inch groups with iron sights at 25 meters...not bad at all)
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
Spikes was great but my FFL (GunRunnersTactical) misplaced my paperwork so it took and extra 3 weeks to get it.
what were your initial impressions?
Nice quality machining on par with other high dollar name brands
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
Standard FTE's but that I think was more finicky ammo (see below for answer) but thanks to the nickle plated bolt carrier group everything runs smoothly
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
None at all
what's your current round count up to?
maybe 500 still breaking in
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
about 20 or so out of 500+ rounds fired (Note I have had no FTF yet)
what is your current impression of your purchase?
Why did I wait this long
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
No I like my setup
.22 tacticool
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

Due to .22 ammo being in short supply here and online I havent tested much
---It works OK with Aguila match pistol and match rifle 40 grain. Its finicky and has a FTE ratio of 1 in 50 or so but then again I get about the same ratio with my tricked out Ruger 10/22 with this ammo but the plus side its very accurate
---Federal Blue box 40 grain lead round nose FTE about 1-100 which is fine by me
---Federal Auto match bulk aout of the 75 or so I fired the other day I had not FTEs but I have ony one box of them so I am using them sparingly because the automatch is my prefered ammo for my 10/22
Federal and Wichester coper jacket just doesnt work and 36 grain was just painful to shoot because it jammed too often...I prefer lead round nose


My rigs
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3423/3802382031_d007bbe348_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2590/3803196608_19cb703a1c_b.jpg

[Alaskapopo]

Did some accuracy testing today and I got better groups than I have in the past. Range was 50 yards and the rifle was shot off sandbags.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Targets/CCIMiniMag1.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Targets/Fedgroup.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Targets/IM001515.jpg

[Pk14]

Known complete uppers:
CMMG (http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?cart=1725699&cat=81&)
Model 1 Sales (http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=22LRUH16M4&storeid=1&image=22LRm4upper.gif)
Spike's Tactical (http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=26&products_id=122)
Tactical Solutions (http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=27&idproduct=877)


What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other?
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
what were your initial impressions?
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
what's your current round count up to?
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
what is your current impression of your purchase?
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?


what I am NOT interested in hearing about are .22 drop-in kits on 5.56 upper and I am NOT interested in hearing about out-of-production uppers like the DPMS. I am also not interested in hearing bashing of one or the other, or hysterical responses/defenses if you feel like your choice is being slighted. Finally, while I'm not opposed to hearing about it, I'm not terribly interested in the Carbon 15 .22 upper or in the complete guns like the Umarex or the S&W dedicated .22 ARs. Complete, dedicated .22 uppers only.

Well, I finally got through the first 650 rounds and can answer the questions Rob posted:

I was looking for a 1"@ 50 yd .22LR upper I could use to give me trigger time on my 5.56 lower without the cost of 5.56. The ability to keep the FCG habits the same, still be able to take care of pests on the farm, and introduce the kids to rifle shooting all pointed to a dedicated .22 upper.

(1) At $525 with the TacSol (Mike Rock) barrel, the potential accuracy at a better price for the TacSol upper compared to the upgraded Spikes pushed me to the TacSol camp. I clean my rifles right after I shoot them so the nickle treatment on the Spike's bolt didn't seem to make that much of a difference.
(2) Actually saw a guy in the next lane at NRA working with one of the earlier TacSol uppers and not having too much fun with all the jams. (Third time the shell fail to extract he packed it up and headed out) That had me a little concerned but watching a few posts showing TacSol stepping up and fixing them made eased the concern. So the shorter version of the answer would be none.
(3) Iniitial impressions have been very positive. Aside from the need to use un-nocthed hammers, it was a true drop-in and run purchase that has be without hiccup. Quality construction and < 1" @ 50 yds with Fed 550 bulk pack. Just what I was looking for.
(4) No break-in issues. Only tried Fed 550 bulk pack and 325 count Fed AutoMatch. No FTF / FTEs.
(5) Don't try to use the upper with a notched hammer. Major PITA to fix (thanks to Robb at VA Arms for unf*#king it!)
(6) 650
(7) None
(8) Zero
(9) Huge fun - very happy with it. Would not change a thing. I did switch out the handguards for the MagPul MOE and added the MagPul MBUS. Need to put a sling attachment up front so I can use my sling from my real AR. Otherwise GTG.
(10) No interest in another brand or choice. This does everything I ask of it.
(11) Fed Bulk pack 550 count 36 gr HP and 40gr Fed AutoMatch 325 count boxes from Wal-Mart have been working well. Will try Stingers and a few others to wring out the accuracy potential, however, for inside 50 yds, this set-up handles the chores I need it to take care of.

My Mag-Sol next to the Noveske:
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q43/Pk14_photos/Mag-SolAR-22.jpg

Cheers,
Pk

[rman43]

Known complete uppers:
CMMG (http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?cart=1725699&cat=81&)
Model 1 Sales (http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=22LRUH16M4&storeid=1&image=22LRm4upper.gif)
Spike's Tactical (http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=26&products_id=122)
Tactical Solutions (http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=27&idproduct=877)

I bought a Tactical Solutions M4


What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other?
It was readily available through Midway USA.

what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
None

what were your initial impressions?
I was very impressed with the quality, materials and worksmanship, but see below:

what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
When I first got it, it was a single shot. It fed, fired, ejected and fed a second round, but wouldn't cock the action after the first shot. Bolt stuck open with no magazine in place.

what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
None - TacSol asked me to ship the entire rifle to them at their expense. They repaired, tuned and returned it in about 2 weeks.

what's your current round count up to?
400 rounds to date
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
None since they tuned it.

what is your current impression of your purchase?
Love it!

do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
No

what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
Wally World Federal Bulk Pack 36 gr hp 100% reliable. Federal Auto Match 100% reliable and very accurate.

What I am NOT interested in hearing about are .22 drop-in kits on 5.56 upper and I am NOT interested in hearing about out-of-production uppers like the DPMS. I am also not interested in hearing bashing of one or the other, or hysterical responses/defenses if you feel like your choice is being slighted. Finally, while I'm not opposed to hearing about it, I'm not terribly interested in the Carbon 15 .22 upper or in the complete guns like the Umarex or the S&W dedicated .22 ARs. Complete, dedicated .22 uppers only.
I was a little disappointed when I first got it and had some problems, but TacSol's customer service is the best! I look forward to many more rounds. This thing is so much fun to shoot, it should be illegal!:D

Update 1/18/10 - I've now put 895 rounds thru it - mostly Federal Bulk from Wally World. No malfunctions of any kind. I'm sure Spike's are great also, but I wouldn't trade this one!

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/rman43/100_0379.jpg

[MAS GunWorks]

I built my own. Spikes was back ordered for months, Tac Sol or CMMG didn't have one out yet. This was a couple of years ago.

I have built several 22 uppers for various people. If you are looking for a complete rifle in 22 I would go with the S&W M&P 15-22. It is cheaper than the Colt and uses a standard AR trigger and hammer.

If you are looking for a 16" barrel dedicated upper I would buy a CMMG. Most will require a little break in. Some of the newer bolts that are polished or plated work fine out of the box. We have had good luck with the CMMG magazines. Black Dog Machine makes good magazines as well.

If you want a short barrel version send me a pm or email. We offer the CMMG 16" versions but built our own 6" sbr uppers.

[Jay Cunningham]

If you want a short barrel version send me a pm or email. We offer the CMMG 16" versions but built our own 6" sbr uppers.

MAS GunWorks,

If you are interested in advertising goods or services on M4C please contact me.


The_Katar
Site Staff

[johnnywitt]

[
What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other?
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
what were your initial impressions?
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
what's your current round count up to?
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
what is your current impression of your purchase?
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?


1. I have had good luck with Tac Sol products in the past and their CS is top notch. Mizzoumule in Anchorage (I have family in AK and try to support those folks)offered a excellent price with free shipping and Tac Sol was offering 3 BDMags as a promotion.

2. No experience w/ a dedicated unit prior to purchase.

3. My INITIAL experience was pretty negative because the MFG. states the units are not to be used with a notched hammer and not knowing that my Colt 6920 had a notched hammer I dropped the kit in and proceeded to blast about a 5 rd burst at about 2k rpm and locked the unit up tighter than a drum. I then installed my Geissele SSA Trigger w/ the unnotched hammer and started shooting with no issues (other than the typical issues with junk bulk pack ammo that are ammo related only). The unit is amazingly accurate. It will shoot pretty much .one hole groups with CCI Subs at 21 yards (my backyard pistol range). It shoots Dynapoint Bulk into about.25" as well. I was pretty much astounded at the accuracy. I wasn't expecting that kind of precision.

4. The FSB is not attached very well and came loose on my unit and started to spin about the axis of the barrel. I rocksetted the unit in place and it hasn't gone anywhere so far since the rocksett. I used an Omega rail on this unit, so maybe during the install of the Omega Rail I knocked it loose- I don't know. Also, I had to install a A1 FH on my unit at my own expense because TS ran out and is now using only the A2. I use the A1 as a thread protecter on my barrel when the suppressor isn't on it.

5.Besides just learning how to lubricate and clean (lube your bolt very lightly with a light oil- I like EEZOX for rimfires). I also use a weedwacker line (burn a patch stop on the end with a lighter)with a .22 patch and just run it through the barrel about every 500-1000 rds. Also, I use a .243 brass bore brush that I've bent to the length of a .22 cartridge and use it as a chamber brush. The chamber gets real dirty shooting suppressed.

6. Bought 6k.

7. Maybe a 100 and decreasing. I basically don't have malfunctions with this unit.

8/9. I would get another one and told my Brother and my best friend to get one.

10. My unit will shoot a wide variety of bulk pack ammo and will even shoot CCI Subs and ANY standard velocity ammo including Aguila. It absolutely hates CCI Blazers and also Remmy Bulk Pack alond with Aguila SSS 60Gr.
I shoot primarily Winchester Dynapoints because they are pretty accurate and are damn near 100% reliable, are clean, and they stay SS out of my barrel. They are also copper washed to keep the lead residue off my fingers while loading.
I just pretty much don't even bother with buying bulk pack .22 anymore. It's pure junk and not worth the aggravation for me with the exception of Dynapoints and Automatch which, I guess, are technically a bulk pack round.
Federal 510's (blue box) 40 gr runs perfect. Any CCI runs perfect, except Blazer. Winchester Super X or Power Points run perfect. Aguila Subs wouldn't run but maybe 50% and Winchester Subs only run when the gun is real clean for about a mag and a half. Aguila Standard velocity runs perfect.

11. Do yourself a favor and get a Christies Mag Loader from Black Dog, Christies, or whoever your vender of choice is.

[orionz06]

What I want to know is:
what made you choose one over the other?

Smart people that seemed to be correct on many things said either spikes or tacsol. I got the tacsol LT

what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?

none

what were your initial impressions?

very nice, well built


what, if any, break-in issues did you have?

several jams, relubed and was flawless. also needed to use a hammer without a notch

what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?


new hammer, added lube out of box, but my peeking at it may have reduced the lube from factory.

what's your current round count up to?

500 ish

how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?

10-15, decreased with new hammer and proper lube.


what is your current impression of your purchase?

Would get it again. Would replace if stolen.


do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?

nope.


what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

federal bulk, cci, and aguila is all fine. will try remington bulk just to see if it can eat it. my sig mosquito loves golden bullets.



EDIT: I must add that it seemed very problematic from the start. I would suggest to anyone who gets one to put about 150 rounds down range, clean it, get over the problems, and shoot it some more. It seems across many forums that it only takes about that many rounds to get the kinks smoothed out, and some have mentioned more failures than good shots.

[Evil Colt 6920]

A guy I shoot with told me about Spikes Tactical. After checking them out online, I bought the ST-22 with daniel defense rail. I was impressed when I first inspected it. I wasnt impressed when I first shot it. It malfunctioned (failure to load and eject) several times. It only gave me troubles in about the first 100 rounds though. After that "break in" i guess Ill call it its performed flawlessly. I buy the federal bulk pack(550) but also grab up any small box of ammo I havent shot yet just for kicks and it shoots em all with no issues. Ive put about 2000 rounds through it so far. I love it and now I want a lower that I can dedicate to the .22lr upper.

**Spikes Tactical made a mistake on one of my orders, left an item out. They quickly shipped out a replacement along with a free t-shirt of my choice plus some stickers
I was very impressed with the customer service. They are my first stop for AR stuff. I highly recommend Spikes Tactical

[DrMark]

Good thread, guys.

Thanks for all of the input.

[vetsvette]

Excellent thread. I have been considering a TacSol upper because of good experience with their other products. This thread answered most of my questions.

[rob_s]

Given the introduction of the Colt/Umarex and Smith & Wesson offerings I edited the initial post to include them and the thread title as well. If you have one of these, please post your feedback here.

Thanks.

[LHS]

I chose the S&W M&P-15/22.

1. what made you choose one over the other?
After handling and shooting several .22LR AR setups, I liked the S&W the best. It had all the features I wanted, and the price was better than anything else on the market.

2. what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
I played with a Spike's .22 upper, a Colt/Umarex gun and an old Ceiner kit-equipped Colt. The Spike's was nice, but the Black Dog mags just seemed too flimsy and fragile. Plus, the kit runs over $600. But I do eventually want an SBR .22 upper, and the Spike's was my initial first choice. Then the S&W and Colt/Umarex guns came out. I played with both at the Phoenix NRA convention this past summer. The Colt didn't impress me. Yes, it was all metal, but the non-functional bolt release combined with the altered selector lever turned me off, and the whole gun just felt 'tinny', like it was a cheap airsoft gun. When I handled the S&W, my first thought was "This feels like Glock crapped out an AR." Strangely , I found this comforting. It felt more like a gun than the Colt/Umarex model. The mags were also more robust. My only complaint was the lack of muzzle threading, but that can be fixed aftermarket, and the gun still costs less than competitors.

3. what were your initial impressions?
It felt like I remembered, shot as accurately as the iron sights could make it, and came zeroed from the factory. I immediately started thinking of what accessories to put on it so it would be set up like my primary carbine but not exceed the cost of the gun.

4. what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
None, once I remembered to lube it.

5. what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
See above.

6. what's your current round count up to?
Approximately 675 rounds. I shot a full brick of Federal 525-rd bulk pack, plus another few mags.

7. how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
I had several failure to feed malfunctions in the first couple hundred rounds, but these were due to improper magazine loading. If the gun has a weakness, it's that the mags are very sensitive to how they're loaded. You have to load them like a pistol magazine, without using the knob to pull down the follower. Once I started doing this, malfunctions ceased.

8. what is your current impression of your purchase?
LOVE IT. After playing with several other guns, I'm convinced I made the correct choice. The money I saved vs. one of the dedicated uppers can be spent on accessories or lots of ammo, and I still got the best .22 AR on the market IMHO.

9. do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
I only wish I'd waited for the threaded version so I didn't have to wait to have it threaded by a third party.

10. what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
Federal bulk-pack. DO NOT USE REMINGTON BULK PACK. I've seen two guns blow out extractors with this ammo. It just doesn't like it. I'd love to see S&W come out with a replacement bolt/carrier assembly that rectifies this, but we'll see.

[Alaskapopo]

LHS the BlackDog mags you mention are anything but flimsy. They are an excellent mag. They are quite durable and can take a lot of abuse.
Pat

[rob_s]

APP let's not go down that path in this thread. It has potential to be a great resource for buyers. People should feel free to post their own experiences and opinions without getting caught up in "uh-huh" "nuh-uh" arguments.

[LHS]

LHS the BlackDog mags you mention are anything but flimsy. They are an excellent mag. They are quite durable and can take a lot of abuse.
Pat

I saw a couple with broken feed lips, one from being dropped during training, the other just from being tossed in a gear bag with other stuff. I haven't seen that kind of damage with the S&W mags. Then again, the S&W mags haven't been around long enough to have a real track record, so we'll see how they do.

Honestly, my biggest two factors in buying the S&W were the functional bolt catch, and the price point. I wanted something that mimicked the standard AR controls perfectly, and the S&W was the only rifle currently on the market that does that. The price made it all the sweeter.

[Iceberg]

I picked up my new TacSol M4 for $400 at the last Portland OR Expo gunshow w/ two Black Dog mags. While there I also looked at Spikes ($500) and Velocity ($375) uppers and picked the TacSol since it looked & felt the best quality. I also really didn't like the large white lettering on the Spikes.

I have it mounted to a complete DPMS lower that I picked up a while ago, w/ a MaTech BUIS & Trijicon Mini Red Dot. It is a great setup that is a blast to shoot.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll42/ekbergie/Remington%203200/AR%2015/Hunting008.jpg

[redyak3]

Great thread!
I've been interested in this format for awhile.

[rman43]

I picked up my new TacSol M4 for $400 at the last Portland OR Expo gunshow w/ two Black Dog mags. While there I also looked at Spikes ($500) and Velocity ($375) uppers and picked the TacSol since it looked & felt the best quality. I also really didn't like the large white lettering on the Spikes.

I have it mounted to a complete DPMS lower that I picked up a while ago, w/ a MaTech BUIS & Trijicon Mini Red Dot. It is a great setup that is a blast to shoot.
You have a great looking AR there and at GREAT price to boot! I love mine and I've ordered an LT model for my grandson to shoot. Mine is on an RRA lower, but also works on my DPMS and Spikes Tactical lowers.

[Stan9106]

I picked up the Tacsol LT upper from BDM during the Christmas sale. It's on a Spikes lower with DPMS lpk.

1. what made you choose one over the other? The sale price at BDM finally swung me away from the Spike's upper.

2. what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase? Had fondled both at gun shows

3. what were your initial impressions? Very nice finish and beautiful machine work on the bolt. Thread protector was loose.

4. what, if any, break-in issues did you have?

- Many light strikes using Federal bulk 550 ammo.

- Will not feed CCI Minimags, jams 3-4 times out of 10 rounds.

5. what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?

- One small drop of purple locktite under thread protector and tightened by hand. Has not loosened.

- Originally had a JP Rifles trigger/disconnector/hammer spring kit in the lower. Installed the DPMS factory springs and a spare buffer and buffer spring. No more light strikes.

- Have not addressed the Minimags not feeding, and probably won't as long as I get satisfactory performance from the Federal bulk 550.

6. what's your current round count up to? aproximately 500-600

7. how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased? Quite a few initially, has significantly decreased.

8. what is your current impression of your purchase? Very pleased!

9. do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile? No.

10. what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
Federal bulk 550 now feeds, fires and ejects consistently. Have not done any accuracy testing, but it shoots better than I do.

[rob_s]

thanks to all that have replied. I finally got an M&P15-22 and will answer my own poll questions later today!

[rob_s]

Smith & Wesson Model M&P15-22 - A1 Style Comp (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=760540&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=33803&isFirearm=Y)


1)what made you choose one over the other?
I chose the M&P because it was a complete gun for less than the dedicated complete uppers and, more importantly, because it has an operational bolt-hold-open on an empty magazine that works the same way as the centerfire ARs.

2)what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
I have fired a few of the dedicated uppers, and I owned a DPMS dedicated upper. My DPMS worked relatively well but I have witnessed a lot of issues with the Tacsols and the Spikes and others. I did not spend enough time with them to diagnose the issues, but those initial experiences are hard to refute/change.

3)what were your initial impressions?
"Fit and finish" is ok. The gun is extremely lightweight. The forend rail, upper, lower, receiver extension... all are plastic. The barrel is steel, and the bolt is a combination of metals. The magazine seats and drops free nicely, and the bolt-hold-open functions properly.

4)what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
I have fired 90 rounds through the gun, and every full magazine I have fired through it has had malfunctions in the first 5-10 rounds of the mag. I have fired one magazine filled with 15 rounds without issue.
100130 Update: Another 50 rounds through the gun with one failure to feed with the same malfunction as before

5)what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
None to date

6)what's your current round count up to?
140 rounds

7)how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
See #4 above
The malfunction I'm getting is a failure to feed where the case rim is getting stuck in the feedlips and the round is stuck vertically, closed between the bolt and the chamber. It would appear that the round somehow misses the chamber itself and windups up getting turned vertically and wedged into the feelips

8)what is your current impression of your purchase?
I am cautiously optimistic. I hear good things so I am hoping that more break-in and possible ammo changes will alleviate the problems.

9)do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
Not yet. So far I'm still glad I bought what I did, and last night a Spikes owner had far more malfunctions than I did.

10)what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
I have only fired CCI 40 grain round-nose Minimags

[fourXfour]

Rob S.

Thanks for the review. I pick up my M&P 15-22 tomorrow. I will have about 2000 rounds down the tube through one ten round mag (arrgghh). I will be running some Federal Bulk Pack, Round nose CCI mini mags and a few others. I have some standard capacity mags on backorder from RSR and 44 mag.

If this rifle proves reliable (even with extractor issues) would any of the big training groups (Magpul, VTAC, Eagle) allow a .22 rifle to be used in a carbine class.

I'm set to take Magpul's Dynamic Carbine 1/2 this friday and just saw that their required equipment was "A functional carbine or submachine gun chambered in 5.56x45, 5.45x39 or 7.62x39mm or standard pistol caliber weapon systems. If available, a spare weapon system is also an excellent idea."

Would .22LR be considered a standard pistol caliber weapon? Travis has stated somewhere else on the internet that he feels the 15-22 is great for training and can be used in conjuction with .223 AR's. I'll find out a little more this weekend about that theory.

[fourXfour]

I picked up my 15-22. So far 300 rounds and no issues.

One gentleman did use the 15-22 in a Magpul Dynamic Carbine class. 2 out 3 days down and no issues with his rifle.

[fourXfour]

I picked up a S&W M&P 15-22 last week.

1. what made you choose one over the other?
-Ammo Price, weight and same weapon manipulation as my duty rifle. Since I am an LEO in CA, I can use Hi Caps and not have to register the rifle. I also previously had a CMMG conversion kit, but I could not practice speed reloads with it.

2. what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
-I just read reviews the rifle online and the rifle either worked great or needed to go back to the factory.

3. what were your initial impressions?

-Very nice rifle, thanks to the light weight there is a hint of recoil which helps practicing with the rifle.

4. what, if any, break-in issues did you have?

- 300 rounds were fired so far. No issues

5. what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?

- Nothing so far

6. what's your current round count up to?

-300

7. how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?

-none so far.

8. what is your current impression of your purchase?

-I love it, I may buy a second one (magpul version with the built in QD single point sling adapter). I will definitely recommend it to coworkers and friends.

9. do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?

-No.

10. what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

-Federal bulk 550 (40 grain), Federal Champion (36 grain) and CCI Mini Mag (40 grain) have all worked well.

[FNCFAN]

After years of Ciener ups and downs, I decided to build my own. I ordered a Model 1 stripped 10" bbl, which I heard that Spikes was using for a while, and changed the 556 chamber adaptor out for the dedicated one, and run BD mags. I have to admit, since b.o. took office, and I hadn't researched complete units, and Rem subsonic became rare, I haven't shot that much through it, but the suppressed rds I have shot were flawless. Not talking about full power LR, but SS. I run an SWR Warlock can on my 10" M1 bbl Bushy SBR. It looks like the XM177 profile. I also ordered the reduced power hammer/trigger springs, but never had to put them in. I was going to order the Lakeside spring, but never needed to. I plan to polish my rail flats and lube up if needed on the kit. If it will shoot REM SS ammo, I'm sure it will shoot about anything else. I remember having to use Stingers to get my full auto RR AR-15 to run, but those days are gone. Everyone who is serious about ARs should have a DEDICATED upper. The only thing about the M1 bbl is that you need to add a side sling swivel unless you FF it. I just need a few cases of Rem SS or may try the WW or CCI when I can get my hands on it.

[Hispeed1]

S&W MP 15-22

1. It works like an AR-15.
2. I love it. Just wished the the receiver was metal and not polymer
3. No break in issues whatsoever.
4. No tinkering worked fine out of the box. (Earlier ones had extractor issues with some brands of ammo)
5. Just 400 rounds, still breaking it it.
6. No malfunctions yet.
7. Its a great cheap shooter. I'm happy with the purchase.
8. No, I like it.
9. It likes CCI mini mags the best. Federal will work too. Don't use Remington unless you have to.

[blackrifle15]

I have had great reliability with CMMG's stainless steel 22 conversion kit

[maximus83]

Also recently got an S&W MP15-22. Have a good number of rounds through it already, and it has been great. Got mine from G&R Tactical, I got the version with the threaded barrel and FH. I would strongly recommend one of these for a realistic AR training platform.

My review is here:

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=47241

[44ruger]

I purchase a Colt back a few months ago. It shot ok. But with the potential for so many issues, i decided to get rid of it..It jammed on several types of ammo. NOt as much as others posted, but the mag. kept falling out. I changed out the part supplied as a replacement and it didnt help. I just decided to cut my losses, with all the other things that had already been posted here and other places..I decided to go with a TacSol upper because of so much praise from others. I put it on a LMT lower with the proper hammer as pictured in the upper info..I'm having issues with this upper. First it would not fit on my lower without putting what i considered to be to much pressure on the upper to get the rear pin in..I got to looking and using a straight edge and found a high spot on the upper where it meets the lower. I filed it down to get it to fit..My first range session this past week was a full jam-o-matic..I was getting to light a primer strike. you could see where the firing pin had hit the round, but didnt fire..tried at least 4types and 3 brands of ammo and same problem..first 400rounds i had about 25 failures of this type..brought gun home, cleaned, lubbed and went back to range yesterday, was a bad rainy day, but anxious to see what would happen. had one failure to fire, light primer strike, out of 2magazines..seems to be getting better, but not sure what the long term will be...3 days ago i sent TacSol an e-mail asking them if there was anything i was doing wrong of if they had any recommendations i could try. I am using slip 2000/ewl as a lube..as of today, i havent heard from TacSol. No reply...I'm still optimistic about this upper..Been alot of good said about it..Will continue to try to make it work..maybe just need a little more breaking in..without a response from TacSol, i question their customer service...I've tried at least 4 different types of federal, i've tried cci, winchester ammo.. same results with all..

[HeavyDuty]

I've held off posting in this thread until I had a few months and a few thousand rounds through my build.

Mine was a ground-up dedicated rimfire build, I didn't even want to dick around with switching uppers:

AGP Arms lower marked .22LR
BCM A4 upper receiver
Ballistic Advantage lightweight profile 16" barrel
Spike's bolt
Magpul MOE furniture
RRA LPK

My experience:



what made you choose one over the other? I wanted something very specific - a lightweight carbine that mirrored my main go-to 5.56 carbine.
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase? My only prior experience with rimfire ARs was about ten years spent with an M-261 conversion which I hated. I did look at the commercial AR lookalikes (S&W, Colt) and wasn't impressed.
what were your initial impressions? Wow. A real AR!
what, if any, break-in issues did you have? Absolutely none - it was 100% from round one.
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work? Absolutely none - it was 100% from round one.
what's your current round count up to? 1800
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased? Three or for FTEs when I purposely ran it until it was filthy enough to choke at around 1200 rounds. Nothing since, I'm sticking to an every 500 round cleaning regimen.
what is your current impression of your purchase? Extremely happy in all respects.
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile? Nope. My only regret is that I wasn't able to find a .625" "F" height FSB until after the barrel was made.
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper? Wally World Federal bulk.



http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/AGP-22-1.jpg

[gunner76]

I bought a Tac Sol M4 upper, got it because of the great reviews it got on the "other site". I originally was going to get the CMMG upper but heard that some people were having issued with them and narrowed it down to either the Spikes or Tac Sol. The Tac Sol was cheaper so that's what I got. I was really impressed with the overall look of the upper, very high quality. I've only put 200 rounds throught it right now but with the exception of two shell related missfires the gun has been flawless. Most of the rounds run through have been Fed bulk packs, I've also run one mag of Fed Gold Match(got the missfires from these), 5 rounds of Fed Ultra Match(they were very low powered but worked), and some CCI Stingers. I'm planning on trying some Win Wildcats and some Auglia SSS on the next outing.

[RudyN]

I like this thread as I am in the market for either a purposely built .22 or a .22 upper as I do have two lowers that can be built up. My only question at this time is: Does the Tac Sol upper really need a hammer that is not notched or will it work with a notched hammer?

[shadow65]

I had a 5.5" Spikes ST22 upper I used with a TAC65. I did every mod, tweak, polish, parts change I could find. Tom sent me new parts. In two years it rarely made it through a complete mag without hanging empties in the charging handle. I got the chamber adapter and tried it as a conversion unit. Same thing.
I've since got a stainless CMMG conversion unit and have not had one hang up. I had 2 FTE's in the first 25 rounds but they were not hung in the charging handle. Just didn't exit the ejection port completely. I fired 100 perfect rounds today in my basement. Not 1 issue. Haven't been able to check for accuracy out of the 1/9 barrels yet.
I'm building a 7.5" with a Rainier 1/8 barrel. I'm hoping it works decent with that. I like the short barrel .22 with a can.:D

[motorolahamm]

not sure still looking for one

[Pk14]

I like this thread as I am in the market for either a purposely built .22 or a .22 upper as I do have two lowers that can be built up. My only question at this time is: Does the Tac Sol upper really need a hammer that is not notched or will it work with a notched hammer?

Yes, the TacSol upper needs an un-notched hammer.

[Cobra66]

What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other?
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
what were your initial impressions?
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
what's your current round count up to?
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
what is your current impression of your purchase?
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?



1. I went with a CMMG dedicated upper last Fall (October). I chose to go the route of a dedicated upper because I had a spare (1st gen DPMS) lower that I didn't want to use for a CF gun already laying around. I didn't want to use a .22LR upper on my CF gun because of all how dirty the RF rifles get the fire control, so this was a perfect fit. Originally I wanted a 20" A2 upper, but the only ones I could find were out of my price range. I figured any dedicated upper would be more accurate then my conversion kit would be. I deemed the Spikes, TacSol, and CMMG uppers and meeting my requirements. Reviews for the CMMG conversion kits were generally good and since the CMMG was the cheapest at under $500, I went with it.
2. I had operated Ciener based conversion kits and the military issue kits (which I believe are Ciener based) but I had no first hand knowledge of CMMG, Spikes, or TacSol other than what I read on the interweb.
3. My initial impressions of the upper were very good. Fit and quality were on par with what I expected. The only thing that disappointed me was that there was no instruction manual. I went to CMMGs website and downloaded the instruction sheet for the conversion kit but as of yet, there is no manual for their uppers that I am aware of.
4. I had a couple break in issues. First was related to disassembly. The chamber adapter was secured to the barrel with a set screw (which I have later determined is not even needed to make it run well). In doing so, the factory staked the chamber adapter to the barrel requiring a lot of work to remove the bolt the first time. A thread on ARF.com helped me to get past this challenge and once off, I ground down the portion of the breech of the barrel that caused the problem. The second problem was due to the fit of the receivers. The CMMG was in spec, my DPMS was not. This was already known to me (I had previously tried to mount a Bushmaster CF upper to it) and required me to grind down a portion of the rear takedown pin to get it to fit right. Once a the range, I started with CCI mini-mags, Federal Lightning, and Federal Bulk Pack. The first 200 rounds or so resulted in several failure to fire (as I later determined was caused by failure of the bolt to go fully into battery). It was then that I discovered my biggest problem with the upper which was its inability to extract live rounds from the chamber. As I shot more and more, the rifle began to be more and more reliable. After about 200-300 rounds, the rifle would pretty much run without any failures (99%+ reliable). I also discovered that the rifle had a taste for "junk food" and would gobble up cheap ammo like candy.
5. Most of the initial tinkering was just getting the rifle apart for its initial cleaning and dealing with the take down pin. Since I had a notched hammer, I replaced it with a rounded hammer per CMMGs suggestion thinking that it would reduce the FT Fires. It didn't seem to change anything (except making the trigger gritty) and the gun would run about 99-99.5% reliable with the 1 in 100 to 200 FT Fire and the subsequent problems extracting the live round from the chamber. About 1000 rounds into the upper, I contacted CMMG about the problem extracting live rounds and they told me the angles of the extractor prevent it from removing live rounds and that it wasn't designed to do so, they suggested purchasing a Black Dog Extractor which I did. I installed the new extractor (using the original extractor spring) and it had no problems extracting .22LR snap caps at home. On the range was another issue. While it did a better job extracting live rounds than the CMMG extractor, it still had trouble occasionally. To make matters worse I was experiencing continual FT Fire malfunctions (1 in 10). I decided to try to really figure out what was happening. What I found was that the bolt was not coming all the way forward and going into battery. When the hammer came down, it pushed the bolt forward but did not have enough energy to fire the cartridge. The extractor was what was preventing the bolt from closing. This seemed to be due to a lot of tension on the extractor spring and a rough surface on the leading edge of the extractor. So I replace the original extractor spring with a slightly weaker Black Dog spring and I polished the leading edge to allow it to slip over the rim of the cartridge easier. After a good cleaning, back to the range which resulted in a marked improvement! Reliability was back in the 99+% range and extraction of live rounds was possible (albeit not perfect).
5. Current round count is over 2000 rounds.
6. As mentioned in 4. The rifle is running about one malfunction every 100-200 rounds. Most of the time it is a FT Fire, but I will get an occasional stove pipe.
7. Overall, I am very happy with my purchase. There were some teething issues but from what I have seen/read, they are common with all uppers and most of the complete rifle offerings. With more than 2000 rounds down the pipe, I figure the upper has already paid for itself. The fact that it is a rimfire allows me to get around a lot of the AW ban restrictions in Kalifornia and allows me to shoot reactive targets at my range, thus increasing the training value.
8. The only other path I see as perhaps better would be to go with one of Smiths M&Ps. The fact that the bolt catch/release does not work on the dedicated upper like it does on a real AR limits its training value in terms of reloads and manual of arms. The Smith doesn't have this limitation. I understand there is an aftermarket bolt catch being made which will solve this problem and the fact that I have a real AR with real AR weight still makes me think I made the best choice for my situation. Accuracy has not been phenomenal and has been in the 2-5 MOA range which again, but it certainly meets my needs. Had I been looking for a tack driver, I would have gone with a Spikes or Tac Sol match upper.
9. Overall, the Federal Bulk pack ammo has preformed the best. It is cheap, reliable, and accurate enough for most of my needs (3-4MOA). Wolf match grade ammo has given me the best accuracy (a little over 2MOA at 100 yards) and its slick coating makes extraction of live rounds a non issue. It is however a little expensive for most of my training needs. Remington ammo in general is NOT to be used due to numerous failures to go into battery and subsequent bulged casings.

Hope this helps and isn't too long winded. I have been planing on writing a review of my experiences with the upper so this kind of killed 2 birds. :)

[jdub75]

Has ANYONE ANYWHERE tried Olympics 22LR rifles/uppers? They supposed build these from the ground up as a 22, not a conversion. I cannot find a single review in googleland about them however. only the Oly press release info on several websites.
The 7.5" upper looks right up my alley--pinned to my sbr lower w/ a can should be awesome!
Please, no 'brand bashing' based on heresay w/ Olympic...only relevant, first hand experiences pls.

[shadow65]

For one, it's over priced. And other than being from Olympic, it's still an AR mil spec upper reciever with a conversion bolt. Still going to have a collar or some means of attaching it to a .22 chambered barrel.
The add says the bolt was taken from the M261 design.

[jdub75]

Are the M&P 22's a 'standard' upper, ie can you pin the upper to any AR lower? or is the entire system proprietary?

[SapperRob]

Are the M&P 22's a 'standard' upper, ie can you pin the upper to any AR lower? or is the entire system proprietary?

The MP-22 upper will NOT work with a standard AR lower.

[Supermoto]

what made you choose one over the other?
I went with Nordic components NC22 18" because is the same size and balance as my 3gun rifle. I have read great things about the upper and its reliability

what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
None other than talking to people that had them

what were your initial impressions?
Great fit and finish, looks well designed and well made
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
First 350 ran with one FTeject, the I got a different box of Federal bulk, the blue box, the hammer would not reliable reset. same issue with American eagle

what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
Every 300 rounds I cleaned the chamber, runs 100% now even in 30 degree weather

what's your current round count up to?
2K in about 1 week, I can't stop shooting this rifle, there is just a ton of training I can do with it

how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
Runs awesome, put a match trigger with a light trigger spring, still runs awesome

what is your current impression of your purchase?
Probably one of the better purchases I have made, it allows me to practice with the same scope and rifle on my 3gun, but I am saving a ton on ammo costs, plus I can shoot steel plate close

do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
Nope

what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
Federal bulk pack

[rman43]

What I want to know is:

what made you choose one over the other?

My original purchase was a TacSol M4. I chose it because of others' recommendations. I liked it so well I also purchased a TacSol LT for my grandson to shoot. When the Nordic NC22 came out, I bought one to try. After CMMG released their upper I bought one of them also.

what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?

All were readily available and I received them shortly after ordering.

what were your initial impressions?

TacSol M4: Great fit and finish, no garish logos, loved the design of the stainless steel bolt.
TacSol LT: Same comments as the TS M4
Nordic NC22: Same comments as the TS M4 except the bolt is blued. Interesting bolt design - more like a Ruger 10/22 than the other .22 uppers.
CMMG M4: Same comments as the TS M4

what, if any, break-in issues did you have?

See below:

what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?

TacSol M4: None until I tried it with an RRA NM trigger. Firing wouldn't reset the hammer. Sent it back to TacSol at their expense and they tuned it to work with the NM trigger.
TacSol M4: None with mil-spec triggers. Tried it with the M4's lower and RRA NM trigger, but it wouldn't reset. Tried it with another lower with a Geissele SSA trigger, but it wouldn't reset the hammer. Replaced the Geissele with a Timney 3# trigger, but it would reset. Replaced the Geissele with another RRA NM and it worked perfectly ???
Nordic NC22: None - it works great with any of my lowers and all ammo I've tried so far except CCI Subsonic. Lightening the recoil spring would fix that, but other ammo shoots well in it so I've left it alone.
CMMG M4: None - worked great right out of the box with any of my lowers and triggers and all ammo I've tried so far.

what's your current round count up to?

TacSol M4: 3K +
TacSol LT: 2K +
Nordic NC22: 1K +
CMMG M4: 700 +

how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?

TacSol M4: None with mil-spec trigger, other than a few failures to fire due to bad bulk ammo. After adding a NM trigger the upper was a single shot. After TacSol tuned it to work with the trigger, none other than a few failures to fire due to bad bulk ammo.
TacSol LT: Essentially flawless with mil-spec trigger. After finding a match trigger that it liked, none other than failures to fire due to bad bulk ammo.
Nordic NC22: Other than CCI Subsonic, none. Very reliable.
CMMG M4: None so far - 100% reliable.

what is your current impression of your purchase?

I like them all - each one has qualities that I really like, and I'd be hard-pressed to pick a favorite.

do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?

I don't think this applies to me - I've tried about all the current ones except Spikes.

what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

For cheap ammo, Federal Bulk from Wally World has been very reliable in all of them and also provides decent accuracy. I got ahold of one bad box of Federal Bulk that gave me issues, but the rest have been great. I've tried several different kinds of match ammo in all of them except the CMMG and each has it's own preference, but all shoot CCI Standard Velocity very well.

[Wildcat]

Has ANYONE ANYWHERE tried Olympics 22LR rifles/uppers? They supposed build these from the ground up as a 22, not a conversion. I cannot find a single review in googleland about them however. only the Oly press release info on several websites.
The 7.5" upper looks right up my alley--pinned to my sbr lower w/ a can should be awesome!
Please, no 'brand bashing' based on heresay w/ Olympic...only relevant, first hand experiences pls.

jdub75,

Here's my experience with an Olympic 22 upper. It was hardly race ready from the factory.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=56925

Initially it was not much fun. Now it gets a lot of use.

Wildcat

[shadow65]

1. I went with a CMMG dedicated upper last Fall (October). I chose to go the route of a dedicated upper because I had a spare (1st gen DPMS) lower that I didn't want to use for a CF gun already laying around. I didn't want to use a .22LR upper on my CF gun because of all how dirty the RF rifles get the fire control, so this was a perfect fit. Originally I wanted a 20" A2 upper, but the only ones I could find were out of my price range. I figured any dedicated upper would be more accurate then my conversion kit would be. I deemed the Spikes, TacSol, and CMMG uppers and meeting my requirements. Reviews for the CMMG conversion kits were generally good and since the CMMG was the cheapest at under $500, I went with it.
2. I had operated Ciener based conversion kits and the military issue kits (which I believe are Ciener based) but I had no first hand knowledge of CMMG, Spikes, or TacSol other than what I read on the interweb.
3. My initial impressions of the upper were very good. Fit and quality were on par with what I expected. The only thing that disappointed me was that there was no instruction manual. I went to CMMGs website and downloaded the instruction sheet for the conversion kit but as of yet, there is no manual for their uppers that I am aware of.
4. I had a couple break in issues. First was related to disassembly. The chamber adapter was secured to the barrel with a set screw (which I have later determined is not even needed to make it run well). In doing so, the factory staked the chamber adapter to the barrel requiring a lot of work to remove the bolt the first time. A thread on ARF.com helped me to get past this challenge and once off, I ground down the portion of the breech of the barrel that caused the problem. The second problem was due to the fit of the receivers. The CMMG was in spec, my DPMS was not. This was already known to me (I had previously tried to mount a Bushmaster CF upper to it) and required me to grind down a portion of the rear takedown pin to get it to fit right. Once a the range, I started with CCI mini-mags, Federal Lightning, and Federal Bulk Pack. The first 200 rounds or so resulted in several failure to fire (as I later determined was caused by failure of the bolt to go fully into battery). It was then that I discovered my biggest problem with the upper which was its inability to extract live rounds from the chamber. As I shot more and more, the rifle began to be more and more reliable. After about 200-300 rounds, the rifle would pretty much run without any failures (99%+ reliable). I also discovered that the rifle had a taste for "junk food" and would gobble up cheap ammo like candy.
5. Most of the initial tinkering was just getting the rifle apart for its initial cleaning and dealing with the take down pin. Since I had a notched hammer, I replaced it with a rounded hammer per CMMGs suggestion thinking that it would reduce the FT Fires. It didn't seem to change anything (except making the trigger gritty) and the gun would run about 99-99.5% reliable with the 1 in 100 to 200 FT Fire and the subsequent problems extracting the live round from the chamber. About 1000 rounds into the upper, I contacted CMMG about the problem extracting live rounds and they told me the angles of the extractor prevent it from removing live rounds and that it wasn't designed to do so, they suggested purchasing a Black Dog Extractor which I did. I installed the new extractor (using the original extractor spring) and it had no problems extracting .22LR snap caps at home. On the range was another issue. While it did a better job extracting live rounds than the CMMG extractor, it still had trouble occasionally. To make matters worse I was experiencing continual FT Fire malfunctions (1 in 10). I decided to try to really figure out what was happening. What I found was that the bolt was not coming all the way forward and going into battery. When the hammer came down, it pushed the bolt forward but did not have enough energy to fire the cartridge. The extractor was what was preventing the bolt from closing. This seemed to be due to a lot of tension on the extractor spring and a rough surface on the leading edge of the extractor. So I replace the original extractor spring with a slightly weaker Black Dog spring and I polished the leading edge to allow it to slip over the rim of the cartridge easier. After a good cleaning, back to the range which resulted in a marked improvement! Reliability was back in the 99+% range and extraction of live rounds was possible (albeit not perfect).
5. Current round count is over 2000 rounds.
6. As mentioned in 4. The rifle is running about one malfunction every 100-200 rounds. Most of the time it is a FT Fire, but I will get an occasional stove pipe.
7. Overall, I am very happy with my purchase. There were some teething issues but from what I have seen/read, they are common with all uppers and most of the complete rifle offerings. With more than 2000 rounds down the pipe, I figure the upper has already paid for itself. The fact that it is a rimfire allows me to get around a lot of the AW ban restrictions in Kalifornia and allows me to shoot reactive targets at my range, thus increasing the training value.
8. The only other path I see as perhaps better would be to go with one of Smiths M&Ps. The fact that the bolt catch/release does not work on the dedicated upper like it does on a real AR limits its training value in terms of reloads and manual of arms. The Smith doesn't have this limitation. I understand there is an aftermarket bolt catch being made which will solve this problem and the fact that I have a real AR with real AR weight still makes me think I made the best choice for my situation. Accuracy has not been phenomenal and has been in the 2-5 MOA range which again, but it certainly meets my needs. Had I been looking for a tack driver, I would have gone with a Spikes or Tac Sol match upper.
9. Overall, the Federal Bulk pack ammo has preformed the best. It is cheap, reliable, and accurate enough for most of my needs (3-4MOA). Wolf match grade ammo has given me the best accuracy (a little over 2MOA at 100 yards) and its slick coating makes extraction of live rounds a non issue. It is however a little expensive for most of my training needs. Remington ammo in general is NOT to be used due to numerous failures to go into battery and subsequent bulged casings.

Hope this helps and isn't too long winded. I have been planing on writing a review of my experiences with the upper so this kind of killed 2 birds. :)

The new Evolution Uppers and kits are completely different from the old style. While they may look the same there are many differences.
To start, the new collars are secured with a spring detent that snaps to the barrel extention via a groove on the extention.
All have live round extraction, cotter pin holding the firing pin, pinned extractor, optimized extractor, and other tweaks.
They are plug and play. No adjustments and very reliable.
Dave

[BAC]

1. what made you choose one over the other?

I chose the M&P 15-22 because of cost and customizability. For with shipping and transfer fee it was still well under $450, I got a complete rifle, and I can swap the stock, grip, and trigger. I strongly considered the Nordic and Tac Sol uppers, but they were more expensive and I heard fewer problems associated with the 15-22 than the other .22 AR uppers.


2. what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?

No prior experience with .22 ARs of any kind.


3. what were your initial impressions?

"God damn this is light..."


4. what, if any, break-in issues did you have?

The rifle had 3 failures to feed in the first 300 rounds, 2 with CCI Mini Mag hollowpoints and 1 with Winchester 333 hollowpoints. It's had no issues whatsoever in the 550-ish rounds since.


5. what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?

Nothin'. To be fair, I decided fire my rifle out of the box, as is, without cleaning or lube. It's still uncleaned and unlubed.


6. what's your current round count up to?

850-875 in four range trips, about 4:1 round nose to hollowpoints.


7. how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?

Since the first three early in the first range trip, I've experienced no malfunctions since.


8. what is your current impression of your purchase?

Might be my best firearms purchase since my 1911, if not to date. Iron sights don't do justice to how accurate the rifle is and there is virtually no recoil.

I do have one specific criticism related to the rear takedown pin. I swapped the A2 grip with a Magpul MIAD, which fits fine, but the hole housing the takedown pin detent and spring is a little deeper than on the supplied A2 grip. I can pull the takedown pin clear out instead of it stopping at some point when mostly out. I'm going to call S&W and see what they recommend. Having said this, the pin does not seem to work its way out in normal shooting; I haven't done any rolling on the ground with the rifle to know if it'll come out if run harder.

Edit: Turns out that the MIAD lacks a shelf that the rear takedown pin retaining pin needs to rest against. I'm going to try to find some kind of epoxy to make that shelf. I'd like to use my other Stark grip but the built-in trigger guard on the grip doesn't like the built-in trigger guard on the rifle, and I don't want to do any chop-jobs with less than 1k rounds through it. The loose takedown pin is not a fault of the rifle, just with the combination of MIAD and 15-22.


9. do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?

Nope.


10. what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

Winchester Wildcat, Federal Target Grade Performance, and CCI Mini Mag round nose have all functioned perfectly in my rifle. I've shot more CCI and Federal than anything else. Once I get more hollowpoint ammo, I'll see if the original problems resurface. I won't know which is most accurate until I mount a scope.


-B

[gunnut284]

I have a Spikes dedicated upper (basic M4 style)

1. what made you choose one over the other?

heard good reviews, they had a good sale at the time and Spikes is close by if I have any problems

2. what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?

no real experience with any others before or after

3. what were your initial impressions?

fit and finish was good, went on the lowers I tried without issue.

4. what, if any, break-in issues did you have?

none, worked 99.9% from the begining

5. what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?

none

6. what's your current round count up to?

haven't kept exact count but estimate around 700 rounds

7. how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?

less than 10, probably 6 or 7, most if not all with older misc ammo

8. what is your current impression of your purchase?

I'm happy with the performance

9. do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?

I'd have to try some others to make that decision. I will say that I have a Sig 522 that I like even better

10. what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

I've used a variety of misc ammo, much of it older. The best luck has probably been with some older Federal Lightnings (probably 25 years old). I've put about 400 of them through the upper and don't think I've had any malfuntions with them and accuracy is quite good, I haven't don't bench work to really gauge accuracy.

[The_War_Wagon]

What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other?

After a year of researching it, I came to the conclusion that drop-in units were;

a) more finicky about ammo types, and prone to FTF/FTE
b) bullets were prone to BOUNCE/SKID out of a 5.56 bbl, as opposed to a dedicated bbl
c) somewhat delicate, & prone to breakage

So I began looking for dedicated units. Another 6 mos. of searching/researching led me to conclude by last spring, that the Tactical Solutions dedicated upper was the best of the breed.


what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?

N/A


what were your initial impressions?

.22 AR's are more finicky than you REALIZE - even dedicated bolt groups feel/appear 'delicate,' and who in the FREEP at TacSol thought that loc-titing the FSB/Post on a .22 bbl was a GOOD idea?!?! :mad:


what, if any, break-in issues did you have?

N/A - near zero temps and several snowfalls have prevented me from trying it out yet. Being 4 miles from downtown eliminates backyard shooting, too.


what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?

Oy vey... read all about it here - https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=71329


what's your current round count up to?

MINE? Zero. Kevin did test fire it for me, to assure that everything worked, and that the new FSP was aligned.


how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?

N/A


what is your current impression of your purchase?

STILL worth it... I think... holding my breath 'til the snow melts, so I can oper 'er up.


do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?

The Nordic Systems (?) upper seems like a promising new challenger to TacSol's supremacy in the dedicated upper field. I first heard of the, shortly AFTER I'd ordered my Tac Sol upper. If I had to buy one now, I'd DEFINITELY look more closely at their offerings!


what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

Federal plated HP's are recommended - I have a few K of it, so we'll see how it works out.



what I am NOT interested in hearing about are .22 drop-in kits on 5.56 upper and I am NOT interested in hearing about out-of-production uppers like the DPMS. I am also not interested in hearing bashing of one or the other, or hysterical responses/defenses if you feel like your choice is being slighted. Finally, while I'm not opposed to hearing about it, I'm not terribly interested in the Carbon 15 .22 upper or in the complete guns like the Umarex or the S&W dedicated .22 ARs. Complete, dedicated .22 uppers only.

And here's a pic! :D

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/New%20build/100_7112.jpg

[shadow65]

CMMG M4 LE .22 upper
10K with 3 FTE's.
The most reliable .22 of any kind I have ever shot.

[1811guy]

Spike's. I went with them because:
1) I wanted a real AR upper, not some plastic crap rifle that folks try to rationalize as being just as good.
2) I wanted a lightweight profile barrel
3) I wanted to replicate as closely as possible another AR15 I built.

The ST-22 had a FTF and FTE (stovepipe) during the first 350 rounds fired. I have ran 1000 rounds through it since with no other malfunctions. I have been using CCI mini-mags with BDM mags. YMMV

ETA - what do I think about my purchase? It kicks ass. The fun factor was already way high, and that doubled when I put the Primary Arms micro dot on it.

ST-22:
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k81/1811guy2/ars.jpg

AR15:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k81/1811guy2/DDar001.jpg

[usmcvet]

I went with a 15-22 for a training gun at work. Its worked very well. Make sure to follow the directions when loading magazines and you'll be good to go.

[longball]

Where is the best place to buy an M&P 22? The best price I've found so far is around $500 for the original version.
Also, what is the difference between the Magpul version and the MOE version?

[shittercrewchief]

Where is the best place to buy an M&P 22? The best price I've found so far is around $500 for the original version.
Also, what is the difference between the Magpul version and the MOE version?

Besides the MOE furniture and MBUS. the MOE has a built QD sling socket at the back of the lower receiver.

[pacrimguru]

What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other?
what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
what were your initial impressions?
what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
what's your current round count up to?
how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
what is your current impression of your purchase?
do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?


Spike's Dedicated .22LR Upper and Spike's .22LR Marked Lower

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk62/pacrimguru/AR-15%2022LR/IMG_0035.jpg

what made you choose one over the other?
- spike's seemed to have a reliable system and it took BDM mags

what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
- i had no experience with any .22LR AR system

what were your initial impressions?
- i had multiple FTF's and FTE's, i was going to go office space on it and take a torch to that damned thing.

what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
- see above. we're talking 1 in 10 rounds jamming, even after following their tuning procedure.

what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
- following Spike's tuning instructions meant buying one of their bolt carrier spring kits, cutting it down coil by coil, replacing the hammer spring... i finally sent it back to Spike's to tune and Tom there did a fantastic job. he got it running consistently.

what's your current round count up to?
- after about 1000 rounds i ended up selling it. see the next answer for why.

how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
- even though Spike's tuned it for me and got it running well, the tuning was reliant on the ammo used. even the same manufacturer/style of ammo became dependent on which batch/date of ammo you used. so i was using blazer and cci minimags, but once i ran out of it, i bought more of the same blazer and cci minimags which ended up not running well. i was told by Spike's that slight variations in the ammo manufacturing from batch to batch may have thrown off the system. that was very discouraging, so i got rid of it.

what is your current impression of your purchase?
- eh, i'm done with .22LR's. beside the reliability issues, i wanted to be able to train with it while saving money. i found that even though i was using a .22LR that was set up to be as close to a .223 system, the overall experience wasn't the same and it because useless as a training tool. recoil is non-existent, can't lock back the bolt, constantly jamming... not a good training tool.

do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
- maybe a dedicated S&W MP15-22, but those didn't exist when i got my Spike's.

what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
- see 3 questions before this one.

[Zzzake]

I been looking to get a 22 upper and been doing some research. Many people seems to mention that polishing/smoothing the feed ramp/chamber will increase feeding reliability. My question would be how do you do that? And what kind of tool do you use to do that? Is it easy for a nub like me?

I been searching for video instructions but havnt got lucky yet.

Also what does it mean by rounded/notched/non-notched hammer?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[shadow65]

PM with link sent. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me.
Dave

[01tundra]

Sig 522 - Will take any ammo I feed it, great little rifle. In about 4 months it will have a Spectre SWR on the it. And "no", I didn't go out and buy all the bling for it, it was just stuff laying in my safe that came off one of my BCM's I sold a little while back....the Troy tritium dioptic BUIS cost almost as much as the rifle, let alone the TA33G-H :).

I went with a complete rifle just because I enjoy tinkering with building/shooting various .22LR rifles and pistols. Now that I only have one 5.56, I like to keep it ready to roll and did not have any interest swapping parts around on it, plus I knew I would be purchasing a can to swap between all my .22LR's.

Plus, I like how compact it packs down.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v419/01tundra/sig1-1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v419/01tundra/Sig2-1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v419/01tundra/SigCase.jpg

[Dienekes]

S&W 15-22. A pistolero friend of mine asked me about them and by the time I got done researching them I was impressed. The ones I looked at prior to purchase seemed very well put together, and very much what I was looking for in the way of a subcaliber practice weapon. "Break-in" was non-event. My usual practice .22 ammo is federal AE 38 gr. HVHP; I use it because it burns very cleanly in my Colt conversion unit with the floating chamber. However I do get the occasional failure to fire with that ammo in one Ruger .22 semiauto pistol and in the 15-22. Not sure if it is an ammo problem per se or that these two have lighter hammer falls. The rifle now has about 500 rounds through it and the frequency does seem to be decreasing. It was about one malf per mag and lately that has improved.

I really, really like this little rifle. My 5.56 is an A1 type carbine with a 1.5X ACOG. The 15-22 with a 1X red dot actually works very well for drills; substituting a 3 MOA red dot for the tip of a triangle reticle is a no-brainer.

The stock trigger on the 15-22 is about 6# as opposed to a 3# on the 5.56; but it has no creep and is smooth. I originally intended to put in the same match grade trigger the 5.56 has but it really doesn't seem to matter at speed. I may drop in JP springs to cut it to about 4# for $10 or so, but it's a minor thing at this point.

I just bought another case of the above ammo so it works for me.

The 15-22 isn't cheap but I'm VERY satisfied with it. :smile:

[jhs1969]

QUOTE=rob_s;393351]

Smith & Wesson M&P15-22, threaded barrel with FS

What I want to know is:


what made you choose one over the other? Price and duplication of AR operational controls and reputation of good reliability

what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase? Only other exp were with a drop in kit which was a POS

what were your initial impressions? Excellent although maybe a little too lightweight, add on accessories have helped with this somewhat

what, if any, break-in issues did you have? No issues at all

what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work? None

what's your current round count up to? 1275 rounds to date. Work, hot weather and storm clean up have slowed me down the past couple of months

how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased? I've had exactly 3 malfs, all 3 were FTEs. Malfs have been sporadic, no increase nor decrease over the round count

what is your current impression of your purchase? Very pleased, only wish Smith had offer this years ago

do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile? No way

what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper? Have only used Federal's Valu Pak from Wallyworld, 36gr HV, HP
[/QUOTE]

[Hizzie]

S&W 15-22, plain jane unthreaded muzzle


what made you choose one over the other?
Overall quality of S&W unit, functions/controls of centerfire version and price $405

what were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
I had minimal experience with the AR platform prior to this. I thought the 15-22 would be a good intro and training tool.

what were your initial impressions?
Never used peep sights before and was suprised how accurate it was. Rifle quality was excellent. Easy to operate and easy to clean. Almost too much fun to shoot.

what, if any, break-in issues did you have?
FTF, FTE in first mag or two. Only a few gun related malfuntions since. Ammo or magazine loading-operator error malfunctions since.

what, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
Just had to lube the action well and load mags.

what's your current round count up to?
2K+

how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
Maybe 2 dozen. Decreased to less than 1 per 100 rounds

what is your current impression of your purchase?
Very happy with it. I look forward to shooting it every rage session. It has improved my skills considerably.

do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
Yes. I wish the 15-22 MOE had been available.

what ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
Federal bulk pack, Blazer lead and Winchester copper plated round nose 1300fps (can't remember name of loading).

*Even the wife enjoys shooting it.






7)how many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
See #4 above
The malfunction I'm getting is a failure to feed where the case rim is getting stuck in the feedlips and the round is stuck vertically, closed between the bolt and the chamber. It would appear that the round somehow misses the chamber itself and windups up getting turned vertically and wedged into the feelips



Operator Error. You are getting the rims stacked wrong in the mag. I did the same thing and it was maddening. Then I saw a post somewhere about properly loading the mags. Pull the follower down just far enough to slip a round in the front through the feed lips. Mine hasn't repeated since I changed loading method.

[cmb2474]

Here's my story... Long

As my other posts indicate, I have gone through a bit of a learning curve. As result, I have tried out a few of the options mentioned. To start with, my reason for wanting the ability to shoot 22lr from an AR platform was solely a matter of increasing and maintaining my proficiency with my duty rifle, which is a Colt LE6940. Due to ever shrinking training budgets in law enforcement, in conjunction with an unavailability of suitable ranges, my ability to practice with my duty rifle is very minimal. However, I am a member of a local pistol club, which I get out to at least once and oftentimes two times per month. Unfortunately, the pistol club does not allow the use of centerfire rifles. I recognized that being able to use this range for practice, in conjunction with inexpensive 22lr ammunition would greatly increase my proficiency with my duty rifle. So, about two years ago, I began looking for a solution.

I started at my local Big 5, choosing between the S&W MP15-22 and the Colt Umarex offerings (I had not done much research into this topic at the time. I ended up choosing the S&W MP15-22, because it had full AR platform operational functionality and both product lines seemed of about equal quality. The problem I had with this rifle, was the question of how to closely mimic my 10 pound duty rifle, which had an Eotech HWS on it. Ultimately, the S&W MP15-22 was simply too light to effectively mimic my duty rifle and I could/ would not trust maintaining zero when swapping my Eotech back and forth between the two rifles. I briefly thought about adding weight with lead tape and the like, but… it turned out to be a great rifle for getting my wife and kids interested in shooting. It was very light weight and the stock collapses to a length my 7 year old can mount and obtain a proper sight picture with… my kids now refer to it as their gun… “Daddy are we taking my gun?” So, I decided to keep the S&W MP15-22 as is, and find something different for my training needs. My family and I have put 4k through this rifle and it runs smooth as can be… just stay away from Remington bulk (it really liked CCI blazer with Fed 550 bulk a close second). For some reason, I still like to plink a bit with it :D

I still had not started reading much from this or any other AR forum, but did some research on the internet and decided to buy a 22lr conversion kit to use in my duty rifle upper. I considered dedicated uppers, but balked at the thought of having to shell out $$ to replicate the attachments on my duty upper, most notably the Eotech HWS. I bought a standard (non stainless) CMMG conversion kit. Fit and finish was pretty rough… I had to file the rear of the assembly, as there was an errant weld that was dimpling the buffer. It ran well, as long as it was provided with the right ammunition and proper cleaning/ lubrication of the conversion kit action. I know others talk about having best success in running these actions dry, but I had better reliability by running the conversion kit rails relatively wet with lubricant. I lost some of the operational functionality I had with the S&W MP15-22 (bolt catch/ release). This combination was sufficiently accurate for training at close ranges, but was quite erratic when reaching out to 50 yards (missing a 10 inch gong at this distance wasn’t necessarily operator error)… the term shot “pattern” comes to mind. The biggest issue I had with this setup was cleaning… That setup deposited copious amounts of fowling throughout the duty rifle upper and lower. Cleaning the rifle after putting several hundred rounds through it during a range session resulted in a cleaning session that was almost as long as the range time. Also, lacking the ability to send a 5.56 round or two through it to insure the gas tube was properly cleared out was a bit unsettling… shouldn’t be a problem, but am I willing to bet my life on it? I only used the conversion kit for 3 range sessions before I started looking for something else... Total round count – approximately 1k.

By this time, I found the M4Carbine forum and some other information sources and decided that it would be best to bite the bullet and get a dedicated upper. I read a lot of great things about the Tactical Solutions upper. For whatever reason, CMMG wasn’t showing up much in my research (or I just wasn’t doing a very good job) and I pretty much thought CMMG specialized in the conversion kits. The other companies I checked into at the time were Spikes, Compass Lake and Kuehl Precision. The one concern I had with the Tac Sol upper was whether or not it would work with my Colt lower, which has a notched hammer (changing the Colt trigger/ hammer was not an option, as my department does not allow any modification to the original Colt trigger and hammer). Ultimately, I decided to go with the Tac Sol M4 upper. I realized I still would not have proper bolt catch/ release function, but figured I had no choice. The fit and finish was nice and it was very easy to clean the bolt assembly. I bought a Primary Arms red dot to somewhat mimic the HWS on my duty rifle. I threw on a Centurion Arms rail (of note, if I had it to do all over again, I would have bought a Colt LE6920 and put this rail on it, as opposed to the LE6940 route). Once I found the right ammo combination (Federal 550 bulk from Wal-Mart was my mainstay) it ran very reliably, notched hammer and all! Others recommend to do otherwise, but I have had good luck running this unit with fairly well lubricated action rails. This upper is very accurate… misses were now all on me. I even stuck this upper on another lower, which had a Geisselle SSA-E trigger installed… the upper still ran very reliably. Total round count – approximately 3k. However, I was still a bit unhappy about not having the operational use of the bolt catch/ release… And then I learned about the CMMG BHOA device! But, found it would not work with the Tac Sol :mad:. I even tried modifying the BHOA device… no dice. Which eventually led to…

I recently picked up a CMMG M4 evolution upper. Fit and finish was comparable to the Tac Sol. I picked up the BHOA and forward assist capabilities. I had a bit of a problem with the CMMG charging handle, as it broke after I cycled the action a few times. After some polishing, the Tac Sol handle took its place (it was initially binding in the upper). In conjunction with this, I also purchased a second Eotech and relegated the Primary Arms red dot to the S&W MP15-22 (my wife realized how much easier it was to hit with the red dot). I took the CMMG upper out for its maiden voyage yesterday and put 300+ rounds through it. I started it out with CCI stingers (ultra reliable in every semi auto I have ever tried… but expensive. I consider them my “break in” for the firearm), then progressed into my normal bulk fodder choices including CCI Blazer, Federal Auto Match and Federal 550 bulk pack… all of which performed well. The BHOA did not work reliably with the older CMMG magazines I have (I modified them with the CMMG BHOA magazine kit). I am hoping CMMG’s pending, next generation magazines will increase the reliability of the BHOA feature. On the positive side, I now had the ability to lock and release the bolt with the Tactical Link Battery Assist lever on my lower. Thus far the accuracy doesn’t seem quite what I was getting from the Tac Sol, but I was not using a good rest or a magnified scope (then again, I wasn’t doing so with the Tac Sol either). I ran out of time and did not get an opportunity to try this upper in combination with the lower that has the Geissele SSA-E trigger. The CMMG bolt is not meant to come apart like the Tac Sol, so cleaning is a little bit harder (or easier... if you aren’t worried about getting all the grime out). I “buzzed” the chamber, pulled my boresnake through the barrel and am looking forward to my next range session!

All that said… here are my answers to the questions that were posed.
1. What made you choose one over the other?

1. S&W MP15-22: Ignorance, lack of research… but turned out to be a great rifle for the rest of my family.
2. CMMG Conversion: Ignorance, I apparently needed practice cleaning my duty rifle, which this gave me!
3. Tac Sol M4 upper – Good reviews and was reasonably priced. For whatever reason the CMMG upper wasn’t showing up on my research radar.
4. CMMG upper – It finally showed up on my radar (wasn’t even researching for a purchase at the time) and I really wanted the bolt catch/ release capability. My wife hadn't killed me, or thrown my wallet in the shredder yet... so I tested fate!:lol:

2. What were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?

1. Initially none, but as I progressed in my experience and expenditures, it became greater. I did not get a chance to shoot any of these items prior to purchasing them. A buddy bought a Colt/Umarex during this time, which I did get to shoot… definitely not what I was looking for (still toy-like and less operational crossover).

3. What were your initial impressions?
[LIST=1]
1. S&W MP15-22 - Wow this thing is light and plastic… kind of feels like a toy! But it works… operationally identical to the real thing. Until CMMG can get their BHOA mags working better, S&W has the best operational functionality of all. Also, the S&W magazines are a breeze to load! Maybe CMMG can come up with a "LAT - Load Assist Thingy" to replicate the S&W "Load Assist Button":D
2. CMMG Conversion - Utilitarian. It was a bit rough, but it worked.
3. Tac Sol M4 upper - Good fit and finish, well thought out design… just don’t tilt the upper when not installed in the lower… unless you like testing your reflexes (catching the action as it is falling to the ground)... ask me how I know!:smile:
4. CMMG upper – Good fit and finish. The action remains in the upper until you intentionally attempt to remove it (just make sure to keep your palm behind it… or you will once again be testing your reflexes… ask me how I know!:smile:

4. What, if any, break-in issues did you have?

1. None with any of them. They all became a little more reliable as the round count increased, but for the most part I think it is just a matter of finding the type of ammo that particular action likes best.

5. What, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?

1. I really didn’t have to do much tinkering with any of them. With the CMMG, I polished up the feed ramp right from the get go, but can’t say as it was necessary. My personal experience is that keeping the action rails lubed with FP10 or Mil-Comm MC2500 (not saying they are the best… just what I use) keeps things running. When the action seems to slow down a bit (usually after 200-300 rounds) I put a little more lube on the action rails and I am back in business for the rest of my range session. Others recommend running the actions pretty much dry, but I have had good luck keeping the rails wet (but not the rest of the parts).

6. What's your current round count up to?

1. S&W MP15-22 - 4k+
2. CMMG Conversion - About 1k… and not likely to get much higher!
3. Tac Sol M4 upper - About 3k
4. CMMG upper – 300 and will be rising quickly!:D

7. How many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?

1. S&W MP15-22 - Plenty, but mostly ammunition induced (This is how I learned to stay away from Remington bulk). My rifle like CCI Blazer and would experience 1 or 2 failures per 100 rounds. Unfired round extraction was poor. Failures decreased with round count… but was also finding its favorite food at the same time, so I am not sure if the round count is what made it more reliable.
2. CMMG Conversion – Plenty, but diminished when I found the right ammo and kept the action rails lubed. I think this one liked the Federal 550 bulk ammo from Wal-Mart. I think with the right ammo I was getting 4 or 5 malfunctions per 100 rounds. Unfired round extraction was poor.
3. Tac Sol M4 upper – Good, as long as I stuck with the Federal 550 bulk ammo from Wal-Mart. 1 or 2 malfunctions per 100 rounds. It liked Black Dog and CMMG magazines equally. Unfired round extraction was pretty good.
4. CMMG upper - Good, with all ammo I tried, including CCI Stinger, CCI Blazer, Federal Auto Match and Federal 550 bulk pack. 1 or 2 malfunctions per 100 rounds… as long as I ruled out magazine induced issues. It did not like the Black Dog magazine and one of my two CMMG magazines with the BHOA follower installed. I am really hoping CMMG’s next generation magazines are an improvement and will really allow this unit to shine! Unfired round extraction was good.

8. What is your current impression of your purchase?

1. S&W MP15-22 - Great way to get the rest of the family involved in shooting! Replicating your duty rifle... not so much!
2. CMMG Conversion - If you don’t have the $$ for a dedicated upper and all the extras needed to mimic your real rifle… then this is the way to go. If you can swing the $$ for the dedicated upper… do so!
3. Tac Sol M4 upper - Great product, good design, very accurate… would have been my last if they had figured out how to include full bolt catch/ release operability.
4. CMMG upper - Good to Go! Whish I would have started here!:D Just need CMMG to get their BHOA magazines up to speed!

9. Do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?

1. See answers from question 8

10. What ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?

1. S&W MP15-22 - CCI Blazer
2. CMMG Conversion - Federal 550 bulk from Wal-Mart
3. Tac Sol M4 upper - Federal 550 bulk from Wal-Mart
4. CMMG upper - Thus far, it does not seem to care… CCI Stinger, CCI Blazer, Federal Auto Match and Federal 550 bulk pack equally.

[trigger96]

Model 1 Sales/CMMG

1. What made you choose one over the other?
A buddy gave me a flat top upper and I only needed the 10.25" bbl and bolt carrier assy (Model 1 Sales) and mags, charging handle (CMMG). All used on a registered DPMS lower.

2. What were your experiences with either/both prior to purchase?
Prior to having the dedicated upper built I used to own a CMMG .22lr conversion kit...it was nice but not exactly what I wanted. I also had Blackdog mags but they cracked from time to time, CMMG mags have been very sturdy and reliable.

3. What were your initial impressions?
Overall pleased with the final product

4. What, if any, break-in issues did you have?
The break in issues were mainly dealing with an out of spec upper receiver which Model 1 Sales fixed at no charge (customer for life) :D

5. What, if any, initial tinkering did you have to do to get it to work?
Ran it dry, ran it wet, tried a lot of different ammo. Sent it out for repairs and been happy ever since.

6. What's your current round count up to?
Approx 1800rnds

7. How many malfunctions have you had to date and has the frequency increased or decreased?
unknown prior to warranty work, and absolutely none after it returned.

8. What is your current impression of your purchase?
Considering Model 1 Sales customer service and fast turn around. I'm very pleased.

9. Do you wish you had bought a different make/model now that you've been shooting it for awhile?
No

10. What ammo has been the *best* (most reliable and accurate) in your upper?
36 gr Federal 550 value pack and 40 gr Federal Champion

[Underwood 43]

Does anyone have much insight on either of these they are proprietary from what I've read on the website which wouldn't bother me was just wondering mainly if they function great, good or so-so. Thanks

[Valhalla79]

Sig 522 SWAT model. Originally bought the classic version but mine came no Sig rollmark stamp, just the serial #, they agreed to upgrade to the SWAT and I sent it back. 1200 flawless rounds later and it truly is one of the most fun rifles I have.

[QuietShootr]

M&P MOE - love it, wish I'd sprung for one sooner. Put an Aimpoint, a SureFire, and a VFG on it, and it runs just like my big gun. I may add a little weight to it with lead wire just to keep the simulation accurate.

It's a VERY accurate gun, and for some reason it LOVES the Remington Golden Bullet el-cheapo Wally World shit, which is just fine with me, since my AA Glock .22 eats that stuff perfectly too.

Two thumbs up.

[polymorpheous]

Gonna bump this thread with a question.

How are the CMMG .22lr Evo doing?
I see they have a bolt hold open option.
Is it reliable?

[shadow65]

The new Evo mags are holding up fine. Easier to load, steel feed towers, they have been very reliable.
The BHOA works well with these. CMMG is including a reduced power bolt catch spring with it. Unfortunately, they are not providing instructions as to what it is.
Dave N

[usmcvet]

My CMMG upper runs great.

ADCO cut it for me.

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab160/usmcvet0331/be9e52b2.jpg

The .22 lower is set up like my 5.56 upper. The .22 is the flat top on the bottom. 5.56 upper has a Mount N Slot light mount and sling mount. The .22 has the MOE light and sling mount.

[Suwannee Tim]

I bought a Spikes with a Daniel Defense Lite rail for no particular reason. A few weeks later I found out Spikes made a 22 barrel for the LMT MRP and bought one of them and a bolt kit. I liked the LMT setup so much I gave my buddy the Spikes upper. Both took a couple of hundred shots to break in. I didn't have to do anything to make them work. My round count now is about 15K. I have had maybe 15 failures to go bang, removing the cartridge and hitting it again, almost all went bang, these are priming defects in the ammo. I wish I had bought another Spikes barrel and kit as they no longer offer them, having a spare would be nice, mine will eventually wear out, I don't know what I will do then. I shoot Federal 550s and Winchester 555s, accuracy is fine, inch and a half, two inches at fifty, fine for offhand practice.

[ryr8828]

Lots of rules to post in this thread and I'm sorry I'm not going to follow all of them.

I bought the SW MP 15-22 because it just came out and it seemed like a good idea.