ACCuracy for AR's

[RRMan03]

What accuracy should one expect to get from both a 16" and 20" AR. I will narrow it to Colt,Sabre,LMT etc. I know you can get waht you want in a custom barrel. I am talking standard platform guns.Thanks for the input. And yes I know ammunition does matter !!!

[bkb0000]

1-3MOA, but for colt/LMT/sabre specifically, probably averaging better than 2MOA

stainless takes it inside 1 MOA

[Frens]

+1 on what bkb0000 said

the difference in accuracy between 16 and 20 is mostly caused by the different sight radius.
if you use a scope the accuracy should be the same.

with factory ammo and a bit of lucky the best I could do was 1.5'' group at 100m out of a CL barrel.
while a friend of mine with good handloads can do submoa groups at 300m (CL barrel and 2 stage trigger) :eek:

[RRMan03]

I use a lot of Corbon DPX and also M855 for other work. I have found the Corbon DPX 62 gr to be very accurate with a scope. The M855 is a 2 MOA ammo. This is from a standard combat rifle. My next rifle will be for hunting. Still going to use 16" barrel.

[Failure2Stop]

This is one of my favorite perspectives on precision, by USMC03, a moderator here-


The following is what I wrote on another site when I was asked how the accuracy was of the BCM gun compared to another brand:

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Guys always ask me about accuracy......In short, my answer is: With AR's, I NEVER measure group size. I know from years of shooting what my group size should look like at a given distance with a given optic (ie. I know my group with iron sights is much larger than my groups with a Leupold MR/T on 5x at that same distance.....but I have shot enough that I know approximatley what my group should look like considering the distance, type of optic, type of ammo, etc.).

For accuracy or group size to mean anything or for the evaluation to be "apples to apples" comparison you need to shoot the both mid-length barrels side by side on the same day one right after the other.

BOTH guns need to be

-in the exact same configuration (stocks, triggers, handguards / railed forends, etc), using the same optic (at least 10x),

-the same ammo from the same lot, a couple different ammo loadings (because different barrels like different bullets),

-the same targets,

-the same lighting conditions, etc, etc, etc.

All of the things listed above can have an effect on accuracy testing (ammo, temp, lighting conditions, rifle configuration, different optics, etc, etc, etc)

I always see guys on the internet saying my "Brand X" AR15 is so much more accurate than my "Brand Z" AR15. I doubt that 99% of these guys have done an "apples to apples" comparison between two different brands.

For *me* trying to do accuracy testing with anything less than a 10x optic is a waste of time and I would prefer to have something around 16x if possible.

In order to get nice little groups you need to ensure that you are on the exact aiming point everytime. And the only way I can do that is with a 10x (or more) optic.

*For me*, if I can hit the small steel IPSC type targets consistanly out to 425 yards with an ACOG or MR/T 1.5-5x or simular scope, the barrel is more than accurate enough *for me* and the type of shooting that I do.

The Steel IPSC targets I'm refering to are about 18" - 24" top to bottom and 10" - 12" at the shoulders. Basically it's a scaled down IPSC or IDPA target...you know the cardboard targets you shoot at IDPA or IPSC matches...also a lot of instructors use them for classes (cardbaord colored on one side and white on the other).

Here's something that makes me laugh about accuracy discussions on the internet:

For the last few years, I often use a 1/9" twist RRA 16" mid-length barrel (4140 steel / chromed lined) for my run and gun rifle matches...just a factory mid-length barrel that has been lightended almost to govt' profile under the handguards. The carbine has a LaRue 9.0 and 3.5x TA11 ACOG on it.

I have seen more than a couple guys arguing about accuracy on the internet, then I have seen those same guys come to the run and gun rifle matches (targets from contact distance out to 425 yards, smaller than normal targets) and can't hit the broad side of a barn. These individuals end up with a score of less than 10% and never come back to another match. I've seen it happen a couple times with my own eyes.



The last match I shot with Stag Arms carbine with the RRA mid-lenth 1/9" 4140 steel / chrome lined barrel (July's match, just before I had shoulder surgery), I came in 2nd place with a score of 80% and I was using 2004 vintage XM193 ammo. Pics of the match and the gun I use can be seen in this thread:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=2475 (the Stag Arms gun with the FDE furniture and RRA mid-length barrel in it's newest configuration with the Magpul UBR is on page 3 ...... older pics of the same gun from a couple years ago can be seen on page 1)

Pics of targets down range can be seen in the thread below. Keep in mind that the targets on this stage are at a distance of 175 to 425 yards, there are large and small IPSC steel targets, skinny steel popper type targets, the small LaRue target, etc. *Keep in mind when looking at the pics of the targets that the pics were taken with a zoom lense*. Each target (usally 7 - 9 different targets) have to be engaged from each firing position (usually 6 - 8 different positions)....and each shooting position requires something different (ie. sometimes shooting through a port on the ground, sometimes shooting from the right or left side of the barricade, sometimes shooting over the top, etc).....you can see in the pics what I'm refering to in reference to shooting position:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15738&highlight=TA11


I guess my point is, you can have the most accurate barrel in the world and it doesn't mean anything if the shooter is unable to use the barrel to it's full potential. And in that same breath, everyone on the internet will tell you that 1/9" 4140 steel barrels are junk and you can't hit the broad side of barn with them. Remember the old saying about "It's the singer, not the song"

To be honest, my RRA barrel that I've used in a bunch of different matches over the years (see pics in the links above) is probably more accurate than me.....especially when you consider I'm only using a 3.5x ACOG.


So in short, when guys ask me about accuracy of two different guns I don't like to answer unless I can give an "apples to apples" comparision and I NEVER go out and shoot for measured groups .........I guess my use for the AR platform is geared toward "practical accuracy", and I don't have a single AR that isn't able to hit the targets above at 425 yards with XM193 / Q3131A / Black Hills Blue Box 55 grain or simular ammo.


To anwer your question about accuracy between the Xxxxxx barrel and the Xxxxxx barrel ...... I don't think you, me, or a majority of shooters are going to be able to tell a difference in accuracy between the two barrels.

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S/F,
Jeff